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Default If Toolstation can do it why can't others?

I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my fault
as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I wasn't
there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though there was
someone in they didn't accept the delivery.

So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.

Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but
they really do customer service right as well!

--
Chris Green
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wrote in message ...
Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc.


The main issues phone companies, power companies, banks etc have
all arise from the fact that they get rid of thousands of front line staff,
and try to hide behind a wall of bull**** and evasion - "we've streamlined
our operation to provide our customers with a better standard of
service, including online"

Basically there's no longer any thing as customer service. Just various
layers of scripted lies and dishonesty, spouted by hapless call centre staff
concocted so as to bamboozle the public into believing they're not being
taken for suckers.

but
they really do customer service right as well!


Toolstation don't bull****, and actually offer a counter service to field most
of their complaints, unlike the above. So given that they don't need to spend
most of their time bull****ting, their telephone response is likely to be more
responsive.


michael adams

....


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"michael adams" wrote in message
...

wrote in message ...
Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc.


The main issues phone companies, power companies, banks etc have
all arise from the fact that they get rid of thousands of front line
staff,
and try to hide behind a wall of bull**** and evasion - "we've streamlined
our operation to provide our customers with a better standard of
service, including online"


Basically there's no longer any thing as customer service.


There clearly is with Toolstation.

Just various layers of scripted lies and dishonesty, spouted by hapless
call centre staff concocted so as to bamboozle the public into believing
they're not being taken for suckers.


but they really do customer service right as well!


Toolstation don't bull****, and actually offer a counter service to field
most
of their complaints, unlike the above. So given that they don't need to
spend
most of their time bull****ting, their telephone response is likely to be
more
responsive.



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Default If Toolstation can do it why can't others?

In article ,
"michael adams" writes:

wrote in message ...
Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc.


The main issues phone companies, power companies, banks etc have
all arise from the fact that they get rid of thousands of front line staff,
and try to hide behind a wall of bull**** and evasion - "we've streamlined
our operation to provide our customers with a better standard of
service, including online"

Basically there's no longer any thing as customer service. Just various
layers of scripted lies and dishonesty, spouted by hapless call centre staff
concocted so as to bamboozle the public into believing they're not being
taken for suckers.


This happens when customer support/services is delegated to untrusted
staff (or contractors), so they are not actually empowered to solve
any problems in case they do it wrong from the company's point of view.

This was something I learned at Sun, where if you had the balls to
take on a difficult customer problem, you were also fully empowered
and supported by the company to fix it. Even if you did screw up at
the end of the day, you still got supported, and not told off, but
when you are empowered to solve a problem, it's much less likely to
go wrong.

I've also seen a comment by Richard Branson along the same lines -
your priority is to treat your staff well, because then they will
treat your customers well.

but
they really do customer service right as well!


Toolstation don't bull****, and actually offer a counter service to field most
of their complaints, unlike the above. So given that they don't need to spend
most of their time bull****ting, their telephone response is likely to be more
responsive.


--
Andrew Gabriel
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In article ,
wrote:
I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my fault
as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I wasn't
there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though there was
someone in they didn't accept the delivery.


So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.


Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but
they really do customer service right as well!



I'd say Toolstation probably deliver from your local branch where the same
staff deal with phone calls as serve on the counter and make up the order
for delivery.

So rather different from a mail order only place with a central warehouse.

--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *

Dave Plowman London SW
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Default If Toolstation can do it why can't others?

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
wrote:
I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my fault
as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I wasn't
there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though there was
someone in they didn't accept the delivery.


So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.


Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but
they really do customer service right as well!



I'd say Toolstation probably deliver from your local branch where the same
staff deal with phone calls as serve on the counter and make up the order
for delivery.

So rather different from a mail order only place with a central warehouse.


That would seem unlikely, it doesn't sound a very efficient way to
run a mail order operation, and anyway stores don't hold stock of
every item, and of the things they stock they might only have a
few of some things

AFAIK, mail order is dealt with from the Bridgewater warehouse,
though they also have a couple of distribution centres which
supply the stores.


--
--
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In article ,
Chris French wrote:
I'd say Toolstation probably deliver from your local branch where the
same staff deal with phone calls as serve on the counter and make up
the order for delivery.

So rather different from a mail order only place with a central warehouse.


That would seem unlikely, it doesn't sound a very efficient way to
run a mail order operation, and anyway stores don't hold stock of
every item, and of the things they stock they might only have a
few of some things


AFAIK, mail order is dealt with from the Bridgewater warehouse,
though they also have a couple of distribution centres which
supply the stores.


Right. I was basing it on the one delivery I've had from them when an item
was out of stock but arrived the day following the main delivery. Which
suggested to me it wasn't coming from a central warehouse. Unless they
have more than one of those.

But going back to the original point - decent service from what is really
a trade supplier isn't unusual. I'd expect (and get the same) from the
likes of Rapid, CPC and RS. Retail mail order seems pretty variable. I
bought a TV from John Lewis which had a 10 day delivery, unless I paid
extra.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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Default If Toolstation can do it why can't others?

Chris French wrote:

AFAIK, mail order is dealt with from the Bridgewater warehouse,
though they also have a couple of distribution centres which
supply the stores.


You'd think for the "next day collect in store" items, they'd stick it
on a truck that was doing the replenishment run to the store anyway, but
when I've used that service it's been delivered from the warehouse to
the local branch by Royal Mail.


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In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Chris French wrote:


AFAIK, mail order is dealt with from the Bridgewater warehouse,
though they also have a couple of distribution centres which
supply the stores.


You'd think for the "next day collect in store" items, they'd stick it
on a truck that was doing the replenishment run to the store anyway, but
when I've used that service it's been delivered from the warehouse to
the local branch by Royal Mail.


perhasp the truck had alrady left by the time you ordered

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England


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charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Chris French wrote:


AFAIK, mail order is dealt with from the Bridgewater warehouse,
though they also have a couple of distribution centres which
supply the stores.


You'd think for the "next day collect in store" items, they'd stick it
on a truck that was doing the replenishment run to the store anyway, but
when I've used that service it's been delivered from the warehouse to
the local branch by Royal Mail.


perhasp the truck had alrady left by the time you ordered


Probably not that, I think that it's probably in part a systems
thing. The store stock inventory/delivery system is goign to be
quite different from the mail order side. It might not be worth
trying to integrate them, (esp as deliver to store is probably a
fairly small part of the deliveries I suspect).

I suspect also that the cut off point in the day for finalising
the store deliveries is rather earlier than mail order
side.




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Pretty sure they don't deliver out from ours - no vans, no loading bay for starters, I would have seen or heard the few staff doing /discussing it I'm sure.

If the branch is oos on am item it will be ordered next day delivery to the store (or elsewhere your choice). Store gets priority deliveries first thing it seems, no doubt tied in to an up-to-date inventory system that reorders drip by drip.

I spose it's cos they sell lots of small items and hardly any bigger ones that this can work.

Jim K
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JimK Wrote in message:
Pretty sure they don't deliver out from ours - no vans, no loading bay for starters, I would have seen or heard the few staff doing /discussing it I'm sure.

If the branch is oos on am item it will be ordered next day delivery to the store (or elsewhere your choice). Store gets priority deliveries first thing it seems, no doubt tied in to an up-to-date inventory system that reorders drip by drip.

I spose it's cos they sell lots of small items and hardly any bigger ones that this can work.



I read something about this a little will ago for some random
reason. Yes of course there is a clever inventory system, the
stores are supplied from a couple of distribution centres
separate from the mail order operation. They have a logistics
company that does the deliveries. Lots are done overnight, when
the staff arrive in the morning the new stock is there to be
sorted
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Chris French wrote:
I read something about this a little will ago for some random
reason.^M Yes of course there is a clever inventory system, the
stores are supplied from a couple of distribution centres
separate from the mail order operation. They have a logistics
company that does the deliveries. Lots are done overnight, when
the staff arrive in the morning the new stock is there to be
sorted


The thing that impressed me about their logistics was when Nook e-readers
were reduced to 29 quid a go on clearance, suddenly they turned up at TS for
the staff to use as electronic picking lists. Evidently somebody in IT at
TS had noticed the special offer, bought a boatload, and written an app
(they run Android) or webpage to integrate them into the till system, and
them rolled them out on the shop floor. I though that was nice proof they
were on the ball.

The one issue I did have was their system not realising what sensible
quantities were. For instance, it was stuck having 3 shelf brackets in
stock for a long time and didn't resupply. I had to goad it by buying all
the brackets, waiting for it restock, and then going in to buy some more.
At one point they came from slightly different manufacturers so I bought the
ones in stock, waited for it to restock, bought all of the new stock and
in the same transaction returned the old ones.

Theo
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On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 12:20:05 +0000, cl wrote:

So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a real
person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand and
dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.

Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all the
same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but they
really do customer service right as well!


Had to phone Lloyds yesterday, paid some money into wrong account, fair
play it was my fault, needed to shift it. 29 minutes on the phone.

Conrad Controls take a week to respond to an email.


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pamela Wrote in message:
On 12:20 4 Feb 2016, wrote:

I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my fault
as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I wasn't
there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though there was
someone in they didn't accept the delivery.

So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.

Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but
they really do customer service right as well!


In general, how do Toolstation's prices compare to Amazon? - which is
where I buy most things online.


You could have answered that yourself in less time than it took
posting that?
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On 04/02/2016 17:44, jim wrote:
pamela Wrote in message:
On 12:20 4 Feb 2016, wrote:

I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my fault
as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I wasn't
there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though there was
someone in they didn't accept the delivery.

So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.

Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but
they really do customer service right as well!


In general, how do Toolstation's prices compare to Amazon? - which is
where I buy most things online.


You could have answered that yourself in less time than it took
posting that?


What is it with you? Do you really need to be so bloody rude?
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stuart noble Wrote in message:
On 04/02/2016 17:44, jim wrote:
pamela Wrote in message:
On 12:20 4 Feb 2016, wrote:

I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my fault
as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I wasn't
there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though there was
someone in they didn't accept the delivery.

So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.

Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but
they really do customer service right as well!

In general, how do Toolstation's prices compare to Amazon? - which is
where I buy most things online.


You could have answered that yourself in less time than it took
posting that?


What is it with you? Do you really need to be so bloody rude?

? Bloody rude? Dear dear..

You do the legwork for 'her' then Stupot.
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On 04/02/2016 21:00, jim wrote:
stuart noble Wrote in message:
On 04/02/2016 17:44, jim wrote:
pamela Wrote in message:
On 12:20 4 Feb 2016, wrote:

I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my fault
as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I wasn't
there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though there was
someone in they didn't accept the delivery.

So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.

Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but
they really do customer service right as well!

In general, how do Toolstation's prices compare to Amazon? - which is
where I buy most things online.


You could have answered that yourself in less time than it took
posting that?


What is it with you? Do you really need to be so bloody rude?


? Bloody rude? Dear dear..

You do the legwork for 'her' then Stupot.


You miss the point. I'm not about to do anybody's legwork but, if said
legwork has *already* been done by me, I'm happy to share that with
anybody who asks.
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On 04/02/2016 18:48, pamela wrote:

I half-expected some smart Alec, and in this case it is you, would post
a jibe and I thought I had taken the trouble to word my query carefully.
I see I wasn't careful enough when it is you. Perhaps you could refrain
from making further unhelpful comments although that may be asking too
much of you because when when I look at your posts over the last few
weeks you haven't posted a single helpful comment.


Y'know, it's easier to just ignore and if necessary KF.

Toolstation have always been ok to deal with IME. If I was looking for
something in their remit (DIY related) I'd check there as well as
screwfix, with toolstation being preferred. I might look at amazon later
just for a sanity check.




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On 04/02/2016 21:38, pamela wrote:
On 19:45 4 Feb 2016, Clive George wrote:

On 04/02/2016 18:48, pamela wrote:

I half-expected some smart Alec, and in this case it is you, would post
a jibe and I thought I had taken the trouble to word my query carefully.
I see I wasn't careful enough when it is you. Perhaps you could refrain
from making further unhelpful comments although that may be asking too
much of you because when when I look at your posts over the last few
weeks you haven't posted a single helpful comment.


Y'know, it's easier to just ignore and if necessary KF.

Toolstation have always been ok to deal with IME. If I was looking for
something in their remit (DIY related) I'd check there as well as
screwfix, with toolstation being preferred. I might look at amazon later
just for a sanity check.


Thanks for the info, Clive. That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. And
how do you find the prices differ?


Haven't looked that hard TBH, but I have bought stuff from both and
might not have done if Amazon were notably cheaper. Though it might be
more what they sell rather than price which sent me there, ie Amazon not
selling it.


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Clive George Wrote in message:
On 04/02/2016 21:38, pamela wrote:
On 19:45 4 Feb 2016, Clive George wrote:

On 04/02/2016 18:48, pamela wrote:

I half-expected some smart Alec, and in this case it is you, would post
a jibe and I thought I had taken the trouble to word my query carefully.
I see I wasn't careful enough when it is you. Perhaps you could refrain
from making further unhelpful comments although that may be asking too
much of you because when when I look at your posts over the last few
weeks you haven't posted a single helpful comment.

Y'know, it's easier to just ignore and if necessary KF.

Toolstation have always been ok to deal with IME. If I was looking for
something in their remit (DIY related) I'd check there as well as
screwfix, with toolstation being preferred. I might look at amazon later
just for a sanity check.


Thanks for the info, Clive. That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. And
how do you find the prices differ?


Haven't looked that hard TBH, but I have bought stuff from both and
might not have done if Amazon were notably cheaper. Though it might be
more what they sell rather than price which sent me there, ie Amazon not
selling it.




I think the thing is Pamela, that the sorts of things things folk
here will buy from Toolstation ( plumbing and electrical bit,
fittings, fixings, hardware are probably the main things) are
either the sorts of things Amazon doesn't sell, or even if they
do, buying them their would be a painful business. Rummaging
around the Amazon website for particular plumbing fittings and
some screws is not something the site would do well I
imagine.

Of course they aren't necessarily cheapest, though prices are
competitive, and there are other places to buy stuff as well,
depending on what you want.

Also there are things like free next day delivery if you spend
£10, large store network when you need something right now , or
want to have a look at it in person etc.

For bigger more expensive things,power tools, larger items then
it's different and you may well shop around wider. And then
Amazon might be one of the places that has what you
want
--
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pamela Wrote in message:
On 17:44 4 Feb 2016, jim wrote:

pamela Wrote in message:
On 12:20 4 Feb 2016, wrote:

I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my fault
as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I wasn't
there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though there was
someone in they didn't accept the delivery.

So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.

Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have all
the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks, etc. but
they really do customer service right as well!

In general, how do Toolstation's prices compare to Amazon? - which is
where I buy most things online.


You could have answered that yourself in less time than it took
posting that?


Simply looking up the price of an item on both Amazon and Toolstation
isn't going to tell me if one of them is sell one sort of item more
cheaply than the rest of their range of goods perhaps as a loss leader.
Nor if they are offering seasonal discounts nor if one is cheaper but
only when buying multiples.

By comparison, you can't tell if Radio Spare (RS Components) is cheaper
than Farnell (Element 14) just by looking up the price of a resistor on
each web site. Nor would you be able to allow for delivery costs as
readily as someone who deals them.

Similarly, I buy a lot of online health supplements and deal with
companies with vastly different pricing structures. If someone ask me
if company A is cheaper than company B then it takes only a few moments
to explain that one company is cheaper for a certain brand but not the
other and that postage is very significant in one case but base price is
significant for the other. It took me dozens of orders to know that but
only a few seconds to summarise my experiences.

I'm hoping somebody had carefully compared prices for several items on
both Amazon and Toolstation over a period of time and could simply say
what their experiences with price are.

The OP suggested Toolstation is worth looking into and that's what I am
doing. How hard is that to do?

I half-expected some smart Alec, and in this case it is you, would post
a jibe and I thought I had taken the trouble to word my query carefully.
I see I wasn't careful enough when it is you. Perhaps you could refrain
from making further unhelpful comments although that may be asking too
much of you because when when I look at your posts over the last few
weeks you haven't posted a single helpful comment.


And just how many posts have I made trolly dolly?

Why don't you spend your apparently considerable spare time doing
some of your own research instead of attempting to induce others
to do it for you and then bleating extensively when someone
points out the plainly bloody obvious...

--
Jim K


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pamela Wrote in message:
On 21:04 4 Feb 2016, jim wrote:

pamela Wrote in message:
On 17:44 4 Feb 2016, jim wrote:

pamela Wrote in message:
On 12:20 4 Feb 2016, wrote:

I just had a minor problem with a Toolstation delivery, 90% my
fault as the goods were delivered to the address I requested but I
wasn't there (they were a bit earlier than predicted) and though
there was someone in they didn't accept the delivery.

So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by
a real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to
understand and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively.

Toolstation sell at very competitive prices so they surely have
all the same issues as phone companies, power companies, banks,
etc. but they really do customer service right as well!

In general, how do Toolstation's prices compare to Amazon? - which
is where I buy most things online.


You could have answered that yourself in less time than it took
posting that?

Simply looking up the price of an item on both Amazon and Toolstation
isn't going to tell me if one of them is sell one sort of item more
cheaply than the rest of their range of goods perhaps as a loss
leader. Nor if they are offering seasonal discounts nor if one is
cheaper but only when buying multiples.

By comparison, you can't tell if Radio Spare (RS Components) is
cheaper than Farnell (Element 14) just by looking up the price of a
resistor on each web site. Nor would you be able to allow for
delivery costs as readily as someone who deals them.

Similarly, I buy a lot of online health supplements and deal with
companies with vastly different pricing structures. If someone ask
me if company A is cheaper than company B then it takes only a few
moments to explain that one company is cheaper for a certain brand
but not the other and that postage is very significant in one case
but base price is significant for the other. It took me dozens of
orders to know that but only a few seconds to summarise my
experiences.

I'm hoping somebody had carefully compared prices for several items
on both Amazon and Toolstation over a period of time and could simply
say what their experiences with price are.

The OP suggested Toolstation is worth looking into and that's what I
am doing. How hard is that to do?

I half-expected some smart Alec, and in this case it is you, would
post a jibe and I thought I had taken the trouble to word my query
carefully. I see I wasn't careful enough when it is you. Perhaps you
could refrain from making further unhelpful comments although that
may be asking too much of you because when when I look at your posts
over the last few weeks you haven't posted a single helpful comment.


And just how many posts have I made trolly dolly?

Why don't you spend your apparently considerable spare time doing
some of your own research instead of attempting to induce others
to do it for you and then bleating extensively when someone
points out the plainly bloody obvious...


Stow it, Jim. In your mouth preferably.


Shove it trolly, anywhere it fits best...

--
Jim K


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  #25   Report Post  
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Default If Toolstation can do it why can't others?

"So I phoned Toolstation to sort it out. What a revelation, it was
almost a pleasant experience! The phone was answered promptly by a
real person (no menus to navigate at all) who was easy to understand
and dealt with the problem promptly and effectively. "

I did have one issue with toolstation that I created.

My wife ordered some stuff for my xmas and got it delivered, I had also
ordered stuff online for wifes xmas. I was busy renovating the shower
room so as parcels got delivered including neighbours who were out, I
just accepted them and shoved in a corner. A week later wife creates
hell in toolstation as goods not received, they state delivered and
signed for, wife phones me I say nothing from toolstation, she gives
them more hell.

A few days later I check the parcels...Oooops one clearly marked
toolstation.

Anyhow I phone to apologise but cant get local number so get call
centre, I said I want to personally phone and apologise to them, he said
he would contact them and get them to phone me. They never did phone me.

I still get grief from wife over this. :-(



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Default If Toolstation can do it why can't others?

On 2/4/2016 4:34 PM, pamela wrote:

Stow it, Jim. In your mouth preferably.

He wants attention.
Deprive him of it.
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Default If Toolstation can do it why can't others?

S Viemeister Wrote in message:
On 2/4/2016 4:34 PM, pamela wrote:

Stow it, Jim. In your mouth preferably.

He wants attention.
Deprive him of it.


I'm sure "pammy " thinks 'she' knows far more about psychology
than you do chum...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
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Default If Toolstation can do it why can't others?

On 06/02/2016 20:29, pamela wrote:
On 22:39 4 Feb 2016, jim wrote:

S Viemeister Wrote in message:
On 2/4/2016 4:34 PM, pamela wrote:

Stow it, Jim. In your mouth preferably.

He wants attention.
Deprive him of it.


I'm sure "pammy " thinks 'she' knows far more about
psychology than you do chum...


Hey Jim, I looked again at what you wrote to me. You were being a bit
negative but I can see I read more into your reply than was there.

I hate it when that happens to me and you might be ****ed off too. So I
owe you an apology.


Blimey, Pam, you don't apologise on here! It just encourages them :-)
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