Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

On Wednesday, 21 October 2015 16:20:51 UTC+2, JoeJoe wrote:
Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

No. Pipe comes in 10mm (for central heating), 15mm, or 22mm. All of
these are outside diameter. Imperial measurements on the other hand
were *inside* diameter (which is what you care about with water pipes).

So you need a 15mm olive .... but:

If you look at the diagram, from the bottom I imagine
1. the inlet supply is already there.
2. the compression nut on the inlet supply side is already there
3. the olive on the inlet supply side is already there
4. the 1/2" BSP nipple is already there

.... just leave those all in place.

Undo the compression nut on the top of the nipple, and remove the
old boiler. This will remove the compression nut, so saw through
the old inlet connector to release the nut.

Do *not* attempt to reuse the old olive on the inlet connector -
the compression fitting will have deformed it into the inline
connector to make a water-tight (and probably gas-tight)
metal-to-metal seal.

Fit the boiler to the wall, push the old nut onto the new
inlet connector; push the new 15mm olive that you purchased at
great expense (*) onto the inlet connector; wiggle the inlet
connector into the BSP nipple; tighten up until its tight (but don't
over-tighten). Done.

If the joint leaks, tighten it up another 1/4 or 1/8 turn. I tend
to use a bit of toilet paper to test for leaks; if it comes out
dry, and then is still dry an hour later you are done (but check the
next day too).


*: "Great expense" - in the old days a builders merchant would probably
just point you at the charity box if you only wanted one olive.



Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

On Wednesday, 21 October 2015 17:07:46 UTC+2, Martin Bonner wrote:
Fit the boiler to the wall, push the old nut onto the new
inlet connector; push the new 15mm olive that you purchased at
great expense (*) onto the inlet connector; wiggle the inlet
connector into the BSP nipple; tighten up until its tight (but don't
over-tighten). Done.

You can also apply a smear of Boss-white or PTFE tape to the
threads - this does nothing to improve the seal (the seal doesn't
occur on the threads), but it does lubricate the threads, so it's
easier to turn the nut.

On 21/10/2015 15:20, JoeJoe wrote:
Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

IME the nuts on old compression fittings are easy to remove. If not, an
adjustable spanner given a sharp tap with a hammer usually does the
trick. Shouldn't need anything new, just connect the nut to the new shower

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

stuart noble wrote:
On 21/10/2015 15:20, JoeJoe wrote:
Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

IME the nuts on old compression fittings are easy to remove. If not, an
adjustable spanner given a sharp tap with a hammer usually does the
trick. Shouldn't need anything new, just connect the nut to the new shower

Unless the old fitting has been done up by a gorilla, there's usually
enough deformability left in the old olive to re-use it in my experience.
Of course using a new olive is the proper way but it's always worth trying,
particularly in a shower where a leak is easy to spot and "harmless".

Tim

In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:20:45 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

Assuming I'm understanding both you and the diagram correctly, 15mm
fittings, such as olives, are the ones to use on 1/2 inch pipes.

Yes.
--
Chris French

On 21/10/2015 15:20, JoeJoe wrote:
Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...


Thanks all - 15mm it is then...

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 October 2015 16:20:51 UTC+2, JoeJoe wrote:
Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

No. Pipe comes in 10mm (for central heating), 15mm, or 22mm. All of
these are outside diameter. Imperial measurements on the other hand
were *inside* diameter (which is what you care about with water pipes).


Are you sure,in the days of gal pipe this was correct but not with copper.
If it was interior measurement thicker gauge pipe would not fit the
fittings.
Common sizes used in UK houses,
Copper pipe is available in a number of sizes commonly:

8 and 10 mm - for use microbore central heating systems
12 and 15 mm - generally for connections to individual taps,
appliances etc.
22, 28 and 35 mm - generally for long runs where use of 15 mm
piping would cause excessive pressure drop.





So you need a 15mm olive .... but:

If you look at the diagram, from the bottom I imagine
1. the inlet supply is already there.
2. the compression nut on the inlet supply side is already there
3. the olive on the inlet supply side is already there
4. the 1/2" BSP nipple is already there

... just leave those all in place.

Undo the compression nut on the top of the nipple, and remove the
old boiler. This will remove the compression nut, so saw through
the old inlet connector to release the nut.

Do *not* attempt to reuse the old olive on the inlet connector -
the compression fitting will have deformed it into the inline
connector to make a water-tight (and probably gas-tight)
metal-to-metal seal.

Fit the boiler to the wall, push the old nut onto the new
inlet connector; push the new 15mm olive that you purchased at
great expense (*) onto the inlet connector; wiggle the inlet
connector into the BSP nipple; tighten up until its tight (but don't
over-tighten). Done.

If the joint leaks, tighten it up another 1/4 or 1/8 turn. I tend
to use a bit of toilet paper to test for leaks; if it comes out
dry, and then is still dry an hour later you are done (but check the
next day too).


*: "Great expense" - in the old days a builders merchant would probably
just point you at the charity box if you only wanted one olive.



Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

Chris French wrote:
In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:20:45 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

Assuming I'm understanding both you and the diagram correctly, 15mm
fittings, such as olives, are the ones to use on 1/2 inch pipes.

Yes.
Are you sure,as copper pipes are usually measured by OD not ID,You would
use 12mm fittings on 12mm pipe.

In message om, F
Murtz writes
Chris French wrote:
In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:20:45 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

Assuming I'm understanding both you and the diagram correctly, 15mm
fittings, such as olives, are the ones to use on 1/2 inch pipes.

Yes.
Are you sure,as copper pipes are usually measured by OD not ID,

Yes, I'm sure - I've gold old imperial plumbing in some bits of this
house.

Modern UK plumbing pipes are indeed measured by OD, but the for the old
imperial pipes it was the ID - a nominal 1/2 inch, presumably the
relevant BS specified wall thickness as well.

This means that an old half inch pipe is near as dammit the same OD as
modern 15mm pipe (it's a slightly larger diameter) and so normally you
can use modern fittings on old pipe - compression is normally ok, solder
fittings, depends on the fittings , plastic I wouldn't use as I wouldn't
trust it with the wrong sized pipe.

With 22mm pipe and old 3/4 inch pipe, the difference is greater and so
you need a different olive in compression fittings, or to use special
solder fittings to convert to modern pipe size

You would use 12mm fittings on 12mm pipe.

So would I but, 12mm is not a pipe size normally used in UK plumbing.

--
Chris French

On 21/10/2015 15:20, JoeJoe wrote:
Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

20 minutes and the new shower is up and running - the trip to B&Q to buy
a new olive took me longer...

Many thanks again for all the help!

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
Assuming I'm understanding both you and the diagram correctly, 15mm
fittings, such as olives, are the ones to use on 1/2 inch pipes.

Not quite. Older 1/2" pipe - which may well still be in use - requires a
1/2" olive. 15mm, pipe, 15mm.

--
*Never slap a man who's chewing tobacco *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
Assuming I'm understanding both you and the diagram correctly, 15mm
fittings, such as olives, are the ones to use on 1/2 inch pipes.

Not quite. Older 1/2" pipe - which may well still be in use - requires a
1/2" olive. 15mm, pipe, 15mm.

Are 1/2" and 3/4" pipes sufficiently similar to 15 and 22 mm ones that they
can use the same compression fittings as long as you use the correct olive
(eg 1/2" versus 15 mm)?

Presumably this is not the case for soldered fittings where it's a much
tighter fit. Are there imperial-to-metric adaptors which will allow a modern
15 mm appliance to connect to old 1/2" pipe - or would you always use a
compression fitting for that purpose?

In article ,
NY wrote:
Not quite. Older 1/2" pipe - which may well still be in use - requires a
1/2" olive. 15mm, pipe, 15mm.

Are 1/2" and 3/4" pipes sufficiently similar to 15 and 22 mm ones that
they can use the same compression fittings as long as you use the
correct olive (eg 1/2" versus 15 mm)?

Think that may be the case. Although not sure if it works both ways.

Presumably this is not the case for soldered fittings where it's a much
tighter fit. Are there imperial-to-metric adaptors which will allow a
modern 15 mm appliance to connect to old 1/2" pipe - or would you
always use a compression fitting for that purpose?

I have end feed adaptors to convert from imperial to metric. Which is why
I'm not that certain about compression fittings. Except that I've got a
bag of imperial olives which I've marked as 1/2".

--
*It ain't the size, it's... er... no, it IS ..the size.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:37:11 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

Chris French wrote:
In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:20:45 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

Never done any plumbing before, but am quite handy with most other DIY.

Planning to replace a dead electric shower - pretty much a like for like
replacement. The old one is no longer available, but the fittings and
their position in the new one look exactly the same.

Shouldn't be a big job I think - hopefully just a disconnect, remove
from wall, connect new one and fit to wall.

In the manual of the new shower (see here
http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337806.pdf) it mentions
(page 16, point 17) that I should use 1/2" fitting to connect the shower
to the supply pipe. This is all already there.

Assuming that it is either damaged or very hard to remove, I want to use
a new olive for the shower inlet. Is it a 12mm one that I need?

Many thanks in advance, and please don't laugh...

Assuming I'm understanding both you and the diagram correctly, 15mm
fittings, such as olives, are the ones to use on 1/2 inch pipes.

Yes.
Are you sure,as copper pipes are usually measured by OD not ID,You would
use 12mm fittings on 12mm pipe.

It's an ID/OD thing. Pipe sizes quoted in imperial units are the ID
(internal diameter). Thus a 1/2" pipe has an ID of 1/2", or 12.7mm.
Allowing approximately 1mm for wall thickness, this gives a pipe of
~14.7mm OD (over-all or outside diameter). Pipe sizes quoted in metric
units are OD. Thus a 15mm pipe has an OD of 15mm, which is close
enough to the 14.7mm OD of 1/2" imperial pipe, and fittings for 15mm
pipe work fine on 1/2" pipe. But the same isn't necessarily true for
larger imperial sizes.

Are these old 1/2"and 5/8"and 3/4" imperial pipes you are talking about
copper or steel?
In AU our old system was steel gal nom ID pipe but when we went to
copper it started out 1/2" 5/8" 3/4" 1" OD (slightly differing bores
according to wall thickness.
When we started talking metric the pipe stayed the same, it is now
12.7mm 15.5mm 19.1 25.4 OD so fittings stayed the same.
15.9 (5/8") is not used much any more.
12.7 is used mostly for short final runs on hot and cold water mains
pressure, bigger for the beginning of the run and feeding multiple
outlets and for gravity feed
Gravity feed is not seen much on any new domestic housing.
For gas all sizes except maybe 5/8" is used depending on load and volume
needed.

On Friday, 23 October 2015 10:59:23 UTC+2, F Murtz wrote:
Are these old 1/2"and 5/8"and 3/4" imperial pipes you are talking about
copper or steel?

Copper.

In AU our old system was steel gal nom ID pipe but when we went to
copper it started out 1/2" 5/8" 3/4" 1" OD (slightly differing bores
according to wall thickness.

Right. So you used 1/2" OD. In the UK we used 1/2" ID.

When we started talking metric the pipe stayed the same, it is now
12.7mm 15.5mm 19.1 25.4 OD so fittings stayed the same.

Whereas we changed the pipe (slightly), *and* started measuring the OD.
So the equivalent to 1/2" imperial is 15mm metric (but, as stated
upthread, you need to use a special olive to use a 1/2" pipe in a 15mm
compression fitting).

In article ,
Martin Bonner wrote:
On Friday, 23 October 2015 10:59:23 UTC+2, F Murtz wrote:
Are these old 1/2"and 5/8"and 3/4" imperial pipes you are talking about
copper or steel?

Copper.

In AU our old system was steel gal nom ID pipe but when we went to
copper it started out 1/2" 5/8" 3/4" 1" OD (slightly differing bores
according to wall thickness.

Right. So you used 1/2" OD. In the UK we used 1/2" ID.

When we started talking metric the pipe stayed the same, it is now
12.7mm 15.5mm 19.1 25.4 OD so fittings stayed the same.

Whereas we changed the pipe (slightly), *and* started measuring the OD.
So the equivalent to 1/2" imperial is 15mm metric (but, as stated
upthread, you need to use a special olive to use a 1/2" pipe in a 15mm
compression fitting).


I've never found it necesssary.

--
Please note new email address:

In article ,
charles wrote:
Whereas we changed the pipe (slightly), *and* started measuring the OD.
So the equivalent to 1/2" imperial is 15mm metric (but, as stated
upthread, you need to use a special olive to use a 1/2" pipe in a 15mm
compression fitting).


I've never found it necesssary.

Can't be bothered to dig them out, but I've a feeling a 1/2" olive may fit
a 15mm pipe, but not the other way round. Or the other way round. ;-)

--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.