I had my old reliable but ageing Spacesaver replace by a Vaillant 428
about 8 weeks ago. It's a straight-swap on an open-vented system, the
only changes being a replacement bypass valve, a new pump and a
Magnaclean !! device.

Since day 1, first thing in the morning it sounds like a waterfall !
I have bled various radiators numerous times and last night, the one
on the landing, where what little air used to collect was I guess, half
empty. The one in the hall, where I never had any air from, I estimate
was a 1/4 air.

There has been no leaks as far as I can tell - there is nothing below
the ground floor level - so how might this huge amount of air getting
into the system ? Thanks

Andy Cap wrote:

I had my old reliable but ageing Spacesaver replace by a Vaillant 428
about 8 weeks ago. It's a straight-swap on an open-vented system, the
only changes being a replacement bypass valve, a new pump and a
Magnaclean !! device.

Since day 1, first thing in the morning it sounds like a waterfall !
I have bled various radiators numerous times and last night, the one
on the landing, where what little air used to collect was I guess, half
empty. The one in the hall, where I never had any air from, I estimate
was a 1/4 air.

There has been no leaks as far as I can tell - there is nothing below
the ground floor level - so how might this huge amount of air getting
into the system ?

Are you saying that each time you bleed you are getting lots of
air, not that it is simply working its way out from where it has
been trapped?

Is the pump speed significantly greater than the old one?

Has the flow direction changed?

If air is being sucked in, then the possibility is that the
system is incorrectly configured, since it should mostly be
positively pressurised. If that is the case, you probably won't
see a leak, the displaced water ending up back in the header
tank.

If you bleed with the pump running, is air leaking out or in?

Maybe a joint disturbed or renewed during the work is the
culprit.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 09/10/15 08:34, Chris J Dixon wrote:

into the system ?

Are you saying that each time you bleed you are getting lots of
air, not that it is simply working its way out from where it has
been trapped?

Is the pump speed significantly greater than the old one?

Has the flow direction changed?

If air is being sucked in, then the possibility is that the
system is incorrectly configured, since it should mostly be
positively pressurised. If that is the case, you probably won't
see a leak, the displaced water ending up back in the header
tank.

If you bleed with the pump running, is air leaking out or in?

Maybe a joint disturbed or renewed during the work is the
culprit.

Chris


I have removed significant amounts of air on about half a dozen
occasions spread over the eight weeks. I appreciate that in the early
days, the heating had not been on to any degree but by now I would have
thought most of the system has been used.

I've just had a look at the header tank and though the level hasn't
risen significantly, it definitely looks as if it's been pumping over by
the froth on the surface, also there was heavy condensation on the
plastic cover which makes me think the water is warm. I'm guessing
pumping-over would add a considerable amount or air !

This replacement pump has speed settings 1,2 & 3 and was set to 2. I've
altered it to 1 and will see how it goes, otherwise I can always get the
guy back but I just wanted a better understanding of why it might be
happening.

Thanks Andy C

On 09/10/2015 07:09, Andy Cap wrote:

I had my old reliable but ageing Spacesaver replace by a Vaillant 428
about 8 weeks ago. It's a straight-swap on an open-vented system, the
only changes being a replacement bypass valve, a new pump and a
Magnaclean !! device.

Since day 1, first thing in the morning it sounds like a waterfall !
I have bled various radiators numerous times and last night, the one
on the landing, where what little air used to collect was I guess, half
empty. The one in the hall, where I never had any air from, I estimate
was a 1/4 air.

There has been no leaks as far as I can tell - there is nothing below
the ground floor level - so how might this huge amount of air getting
into the system ? Thanks

The last time I gravity flushed my closed system it went from quite
noisy to virtually silent. Only material change I made was the use of
Sentinel inhibitor in place of a Wickes own brand, and a couple of new
radiators with 10mm plastic pipe feeds.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 09/10/2015 09:58, Andy Cap wrote:
On 09/10/15 08:34, Chris J Dixon wrote:

into the system ?

Are you saying that each time you bleed you are getting lots of
air, not that it is simply working its way out from where it has
been trapped?

Is the pump speed significantly greater than the old one?

Has the flow direction changed?

If air is being sucked in, then the possibility is that the
system is incorrectly configured, since it should mostly be
positively pressurised. If that is the case, you probably won't
see a leak, the displaced water ending up back in the header
tank.

If you bleed with the pump running, is air leaking out or in?

Maybe a joint disturbed or renewed during the work is the
culprit.

Chris


I have removed significant amounts of air on about half a dozen
occasions spread over the eight weeks. I appreciate that in the early
days, the heating had not been on to any degree but by now I would have
thought most of the system has been used.

I've just had a look at the header tank and though the level hasn't
risen significantly, it definitely looks as if it's been pumping over by
the froth on the surface, also there was heavy condensation on the
plastic cover which makes me think the water is warm. I'm guessing
pumping-over would add a considerable amount or air !

This replacement pump has speed settings 1,2 & 3 and was set to 2. I've
altered it to 1 and will see how it goes, otherwise I can always get the
guy back but I just wanted a better understanding of why it might be
happening.

Thanks Andy C

Definitely sounds as if it has been pumping over - that fits all the
symptoms.

If reducing the pump speed doesn't fix it, make sure that the pump has
been installed the right way round!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article ,
Andy Cap wrote:
I had my old reliable but ageing Spacesaver replace by a Vaillant 428
about 8 weeks ago. It's a straight-swap on an open-vented system, the
only changes being a replacement bypass valve, a new pump and a
Magnaclean !! device.

Since day 1, first thing in the morning it sounds like a waterfall !
I have bled various radiators numerous times and last night, the one
on the landing, where what little air used to collect was I guess, half
empty. The one in the hall, where I never had any air from, I estimate
was a 1/4 air.

There has been no leaks as far as I can tell - there is nothing below
the ground floor level - so how might this huge amount of air getting
into the system ? Thanks

Most likely cause is it's pumping over. Too much head from the pump.

--
*The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/10/2015 09:58, Andy Cap wrote:
On 09/10/15 08:34, Chris J Dixon wrote:

into the system ?

Are you saying that each time you bleed you are getting lots of
air, not that it is simply working its way out from where it has
been trapped?

Is the pump speed significantly greater than the old one?

Has the flow direction changed?

If air is being sucked in, then the possibility is that the
system is incorrectly configured, since it should mostly be
positively pressurised. If that is the case, you probably won't
see a leak, the displaced water ending up back in the header
tank.

If you bleed with the pump running, is air leaking out or in?

Maybe a joint disturbed or renewed during the work is the
culprit.

Chris


I have removed significant amounts of air on about half a dozen
occasions spread over the eight weeks. I appreciate that in the early
days, the heating had not been on to any degree but by now I would have
thought most of the system has been used.

I've just had a look at the header tank and though the level hasn't
risen significantly, it definitely looks as if it's been pumping over by
the froth on the surface, also there was heavy condensation on the
plastic cover which makes me think the water is warm. I'm guessing
pumping-over would add a considerable amount or air !

This replacement pump has speed settings 1,2 & 3 and was set to 2. I've
altered it to 1 and will see how it goes, otherwise I can always get the
guy back but I just wanted a better understanding of why it might be
happening.

As an aside, did he do a proper system flush before installing the new
boiler?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/10/15 12:13, John Rumm wrote:

I have removed significant amounts of air on about half a dozen
occasions spread over the eight weeks. I appreciate that in the early
days, the heating had not been on to any degree but by now I would have
thought most of the system has been used.

I've just had a look at the header tank and though the level hasn't
risen significantly, it definitely looks as if it's been pumping over by
the froth on the surface, also there was heavy condensation on the
plastic cover which makes me think the water is warm. I'm guessing
pumping-over would add a considerable amount or air !

This replacement pump has speed settings 1,2 & 3 and was set to 2. I've
altered it to 1 and will see how it goes, otherwise I can always get the
guy back but I just wanted a better understanding of why it might be
happening.

As an aside, did he do a proper system flush before installing the new
boiler?



Yes he did do that.

On 09/10/2015 11:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Cap wrote:
I had my old reliable but ageing Spacesaver replace by a Vaillant 428
about 8 weeks ago. It's a straight-swap on an open-vented system, the
only changes being a replacement bypass valve, a new pump and a
Magnaclean !! device.

Since day 1, first thing in the morning it sounds like a waterfall !
I have bled various radiators numerous times and last night, the one
on the landing, where what little air used to collect was I guess, half
empty. The one in the hall, where I never had any air from, I estimate
was a 1/4 air.

There has been no leaks as far as I can tell - there is nothing below
the ground floor level - so how might this huge amount of air getting
into the system ? Thanks

Most likely cause is it's pumping over. Too much head from the pump.

A possible quick check for this, if it still pumps over on speed setting
1, would be to partially close one of the pump isolating valves (ideally
the "output" one). Also, you should be able to see pumping over by
looking in the tank when the heating is running.

On 09/10/15 11:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Cap wrote:
I had my old reliable but ageing Spacesaver replace by a Vaillant 428
about 8 weeks ago. It's a straight-swap on an open-vented system, the
only changes being a replacement bypass valve, a new pump and a
Magnaclean !! device.

Since day 1, first thing in the morning it sounds like a waterfall !
I have bled various radiators numerous times and last night, the one
on the landing, where what little air used to collect was I guess, half
empty. The one in the hall, where I never had any air from, I estimate
was a 1/4 air.

There has been no leaks as far as I can tell - there is nothing below
the ground floor level - so how might this huge amount of air getting
into the system ? Thanks

Most likely cause is it's pumping over. Too much head from the pump.


I've turned the pump down a notch and fingers-crossed, you're right.

On 09/10/2015 07:09, Andy Cap wrote:

I had my old reliable but ageing Spacesaver replace by a Vaillant 428
about 8 weeks ago. It's a straight-swap on an open-vented system, the
only changes being a replacement bypass valve, a new pump and a
Magnaclean !! device.

Since day 1, first thing in the morning it sounds like a waterfall !
I have bled various radiators numerous times and last night, the one
on the landing, where what little air used to collect was I guess, half
empty. The one in the hall, where I never had any air from, I estimate
was a 1/4 air.

There has been no leaks as far as I can tell - there is nothing below
the ground floor level - so how might this huge amount of air getting
into the system ? Thanks

You mention that the bypass valve has been replaced.

What happens if you turn off all the radiators and start the boiler?


--
Michael Chare

On 09/10/15 12:58, Michael Chare wrote:


You mention that the bypass valve has been replaced.

What happens if you turn off all the radiators and start the boiler?



I'll give it a few days, now I've reduced the pump setting and if
there's no change, I'll give that a try. Cheers.

On 09/10/15 10:56, Roger Mills wrote:

I have removed significant amounts of air on about half a dozen
occasions spread over the eight weeks. I appreciate that in the early
days, the heating had not been on to any degree but by now I would have
thought most of the system has been used.

I've just had a look at the header tank and though the level hasn't
risen significantly, it definitely looks as if it's been pumping over by
the froth on the surface, also there was heavy condensation on the
plastic cover which makes me think the water is warm. I'm guessing
pumping-over would add a considerable amount or air !

This replacement pump has speed settings 1,2 & 3 and was set to 2. I've
altered it to 1 and will see how it goes, otherwise I can always get the
guy back but I just wanted a better understanding of why it might be
happening.

Thanks Andy C

Definitely sounds as if it has been pumping over - that fits all the
symptoms.

If reducing the pump speed doesn't fix it, make sure that the pump has
been installed the right way round!

The system's been nice and quiet now for three morning and everything
appears to be functioning OK. Nice easy fix ! Thanks for the pointers.

Andy C