Having being suitably impressed after installing 2 x LED light panels in
the shower room I am looking to replace 12 halogen (600 watts) with 5
LED panels (60 watts) in the kitchen. Although I probably wont do it
until next year I have discovered that 1 lot of 6 are wired in to the
ground floor lighting circuit and the other 6 are wired in to the 1st
floor socket circuit.
Is the 6 in the socket circuit an issue that I should address when I get
around to doing the replacement or is that wiring arrangement ok?

It seems a strange arrangement I think the problem is that someone working on the lights might assume they are all on the downstairs lighting circuit and not realise that isolating that circuit will leave the others still live. I think I would take the opportunity whilst installing new lights to get them all on the same circuit.

Richard

"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
It seems a strange arrangement I think the problem is that someone working
on the lights might assume they are all on the downstairs lighting circuit
and not realise that isolating that circuit will leave the others still
live. I think I would take the opportunity whilst installing new lights to
get them all on the same circuit.

Yes. I'd put all the lights on a) a lighting circuit and b) a downstairs
circuit, for this very reason: so that all the lights are isolated with the
same circuit breaker. If the downstairs circuit could handle 6 halogen
lights at 300 W, then it will be able to handle all twelve LED lights at 60
W - assuming I've understood your numbers correctly.

On 03/10/15 19:50, ss wrote:
Having being suitably impressed after installing 2 x LED light panels in
the shower room I am looking to replace 12 halogen (600 watts) with 5
LED panels (60 watts) in the kitchen. Although I probably wont do it
until next year I have discovered that 1 lot of 6 are wired in to the
ground floor lighting circuit and the other 6 are wired in to the 1st
floor socket circuit.
Is the 6 in the socket circuit an issue that I should address when I get
around to doing the replacement or is that wiring arrangement ok?

No it's not OK. Your lights are protected by a 32A breaker (assuming you
don't have a radially wired socket circuit).

But you could make it temporarily OK by inserting a fuse inline (using a
fused connection unit) with a 3A/5A fuse.

That will be fine-ish until you get a chance to deal with it properly.


But I am confused - do they not all run through one switch or pull cord?

On 03/10/2015 20:43, NY wrote:
"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
It seems a strange arrangement I think the problem is that someone
working on the lights might assume they are all on the downstairs
lighting circuit and not realise that isolating that circuit will
leave the others still live. I think I would take the opportunity
whilst installing new lights to get them all on the same circuit.

Yes. I'd put all the lights on a) a lighting circuit and b) a downstairs
circuit, for this very reason: so that all the lights are isolated with
the same circuit breaker. If the downstairs circuit could handle 6
halogen lights at 300 W, then it will be able to handle all twelve LED
lights at 60 W - assuming I've understood your numbers correctly.

Yes you have understood the numbers correctly.

On 03/10/2015 20:45, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/10/15 19:50, ss wrote:
Having being suitably impressed after installing 2 x LED light panels in
the shower room I am looking to replace 12 halogen (600 watts) with 5
LED panels (60 watts) in the kitchen. Although I probably wont do it
until next year I have discovered that 1 lot of 6 are wired in to the
ground floor lighting circuit and the other 6 are wired in to the 1st
floor socket circuit.
Is the 6 in the socket circuit an issue that I should address when I get
around to doing the replacement or is that wiring arrangement ok?

No it's not OK. Your lights are protected by a 32A breaker (assuming you
don't have a radially wired socket circuit).

But you could make it temporarily OK by inserting a fuse inline (using a
fused connection unit) with a 3A/5A fuse.

That will be fine-ish until you get a chance to deal with it properly.


But I am confused - do they not all run through one switch or pull cord?


Kitchen 25 feet long. At one end a light switch which operates 6 x
halogens. At other end a light switch (wired to 1st floor socket
circuit) which operates the other 6 halogens.
One switch does not operate all 12 halogens.

On Saturday, 3 October 2015 20:53:37 UTC+1, ss wrote:
Kitchen 25 feet long. At one end a light switch which operates 6 x
halogens. At other end a light switch (wired to 1st floor socket
circuit) which operates the other 6 halogens.
One switch does not operate all 12 halogens.

That's all right then (although if you have to walk through the kitchen I'd walk two-way switching of at least one light).

The socket circuit needs to be fused down as mentioned.

Can be very handy having lights in the kitchen and other major rooms split over multiple circuits (and RCDs).

Owain

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 12:23:20 -0700, Tricky Dicky wrote:

It seems a strange arrangement I think the problem is that someone
working on the lights might assume they are all on the downstairs
lighting circuit and not realise that isolating that circuit will leave
the others still live. I think I would take the opportunity whilst
installing new lights to get them all on the same circuit.

Richard

Providing the lights have a suitable fuse (fused spur) it's fine. I've
been caught out by a hallway switch¹ more than once, you'd think I'd
learn.

¹ 2 circuits in one switch - hall light on the downstairs circuit,
landing light on the upstairs circuit.

On 03/10/2015 22:25, wrote:
The socket circuit needs to be fused down as mentioned.

Short of lifting floorboards on the 1st floor I cant be sure but it may
already be fused down (I live in hope). I am asking questions ahead of
`work to be done` so that I can plan ahead, the room above will be
getting re carpeted next year so lifting the boards then is not an issue
and that will give me decent access to the wiring for the 6 halogens
running off the 1st floor sockets.

On 03/10/2015 19:50, ss wrote:
Having being suitably impressed after installing 2 x LED light panels in
the shower room I am looking to replace 12 halogen (600 watts) with 5
LED panels (60 watts) in the kitchen. Although I probably wont do it
until next year I have discovered that 1 lot of 6 are wired in to the
ground floor lighting circuit and the other 6 are wired in to the 1st
floor socket circuit.
Is the 6 in the socket circuit an issue that I should address when I get
around to doing the replacement or is that wiring arrangement ok?

It rather depends on how its wired to the circuit.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with powering lights from a socket
circuit in some cases, however you need to take care that the cabling
for the lights has adequate fault protection (say via a fused connection
unit or similar).

If you wire small CSA wires direct to a socket circuit then you are
unlikely to be able to rely on the 30/32A protective device to offer
them any protection if a short were to occur in the light part of the
circuit.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Ok but rather odd I'd suggest.
I mean the drain of the leds is going to be really small so the mismatch in
the breakers is probably academic in both cases.

Do you think somebody just made a mistake or added more lights later and
fitted them to the wrong wire, so to speak?
One reason might have been to stop all the lights from going out if one
breaker tripped.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"ss" wrote in message
...
Having being suitably impressed after installing 2 x LED light panels in
the shower room I am looking to replace 12 halogen (600 watts) with 5 LED
panels (60 watts) in the kitchen. Although I probably wont do it until
next year I have discovered that 1 lot of 6 are wired in to the ground
floor lighting circuit and the other 6 are wired in to the 1st floor
socket circuit.
Is the 6 in the socket circuit an issue that I should address when I get
around to doing the replacement or is that wiring arrangement ok?

On 04/10/2015 12:32, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Do you think somebody just made a mistake or added more lights later and
fitted them to the wrong wire, so to speak?
One reason might have been to stop all the lights from going out if one
breaker tripped.

I dont think it was a mistake, the previous owners done quite a bit of
alterations to the house and added a couple of extensions, they also
owned an electrical lamp company, so I reckon they knew what they were
doing, thats not to say they were adhering to regulations although most
of the alterations were done around 25 years ago.

John wrote:
2 circuits in one switch - hall light on the downstairs circuit,
landing light on the upstairs circuit.

I was caught out by a set of stairs lights with switch at top and
bottom of the stairs. I pulled the fuse for "downstairs" and the
lights went out, so I started working on it. BNAG! threw me off
my step ladder. It turned out that as the lights were upstairs and
downstairs, somebody had thought that meant the had to be wired to
both the upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits.

jgh

On 04/10/2015 18:22, wrote:
John wrote:
2 circuits in one switch - hall light on the downstairs circuit,
landing light on the upstairs circuit.

I was caught out by a set of stairs lights with switch at top and
bottom of the stairs. I pulled the fuse for "downstairs" and the
lights went out, so I started working on it. BNAG! threw me off
my step ladder. It turned out that as the lights were upstairs and
downstairs, somebody had thought that meant the had to be wired to
both the upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits.

Even when wired correctly, you typically have live wires from both
circuits present at the switches.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/10/2015 23:01, ss wrote:
On 03/10/2015 22:25, wrote:
The socket circuit needs to be fused down as mentioned.

Short of lifting floorboards on the 1st floor I cant be sure but it may
already be fused down (I live in hope). I am asking questions ahead of
`work to be done` so that I can plan ahead, the room above will be
getting re carpeted next year so lifting the boards then is not an issue
and that will give me decent access to the wiring for the 6 halogens
running off the 1st floor sockets.

Only an idiot would install a fused spur connector under the floorboards.

I think it's safe to assume that if you can't find a visible fused spur
connector which cuts off the lights when you pull the fuse then the
circuit is not protected with a suitable fuse.

--
Mike Clarke

On 04/10/2015 23:00, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 03/10/2015 23:01, ss wrote:
On 03/10/2015 22:25, wrote:
The socket circuit needs to be fused down as mentioned.

Short of lifting floorboards on the 1st floor I cant be sure but it may
already be fused down (I live in hope). I am asking questions ahead of
`work to be done` so that I can plan ahead, the room above will be
getting re carpeted next year so lifting the boards then is not an issue
and that will give me decent access to the wiring for the 6 halogens
running off the 1st floor sockets.

Only an idiot would install a fused spur connector under the floorboards.

I think it's safe to assume that if you can't find a visible fused spur
connector which cuts off the lights when you pull the fuse then the
circuit is not protected with a suitable fuse.


And you are probably correct, there is a fused spur in the ground floor
shower room that I thought was for when they had a gas boiler in an
upstairs cupboard now relocated to a porch extension on the ground
floor. I will pull the fuse on that just to check but doubtful if that
will be for the halogens, when I pulled it previously it didnt cut off
anything but then I didnt think to check the halogen lights.....maybe
just maybe :-)