wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 8:16:28 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz-gvvtVDt8

I love the comments others have made.

--
Adam

Better hope the leccysafetyfirst moaners don't see this, it's exactly what
they would like to see to prove how unsafe allowing d-i-y is.

Philip

Ah. But that wasn't DIY, it was a professional.

On 27/08/15 08:04, Richard wrote:
wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 8:16:28 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz-gvvtVDt8

I love the comments others have made.

--
Adam

Better hope the leccysafetyfirst moaners don't see this, it's exactly
what they would like to see to prove how unsafe allowing d-i-y is.

Philip

Ah. But that wasn't DIY, it was a professional.

But filling the bodged out hole with mastic is a professional approach.

In 1974!


I don't know why he didn't just surface mount it as most people do...

I like the way he compromised the waterproofing by drilling new fixing holes in the back ignoring the four pocketed holes in the corners designed to prevent water ingress into the box. He also seems to have trouble mixing up his imperial and metric measurements, at one point I thought he was going to set the box back 4" into the wall.

Richard

Tricky Dicky wrote:
I like the way he compromised the waterproofing by drilling new fixing holes in the back ignoring the four pocketed holes in the corners designed to prevent water ingress into the box. He also seems to have trouble mixing up his imperial and metric measurements, at one point I thought he was going to set the box back 4" into the wall.

Richard


And he does not use this NG or he would know about angle grinders.

"F Murtz" wrote in message
eb.com...
Tricky Dicky wrote:
I like the way he compromised the waterproofing by drilling new fixing
holes in the back ignoring the four pocketed holes in the corners
designed to prevent water ingress into the box. He also seems to have
trouble mixing up his imperial and metric measurements, at one point I
thought he was going to set the box back 4" into the wall.

Richard


And he does not use this NG or he would know about angle grinders.


The correct answer:-)

--
Adam

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
I don't know why he didn't just surface mount it as most people do...

What is the problem with sinking the socket into the brickwork?

Is it the extra effort (and therefore time), or is it that it penetrates the
outer skin of the cavity wall which then needs to be sealed to make it
waterproof to prevent water entering the cavity?


Talking of dodgy wiring, my parents bought a very old cottage which had been
badly modernised some time in the 1960s. The internal walls were very old
lath-and-plaster, and the backing boxes for the sockets and switches had
been glued to the opposite laths because there was no way to screw it in,
also the cavity between the laths for one wall and the wall in the next room
was almost but not quite deep enough to take a backing box, so all the
sockets stood out slightly proud.

The wires had been dropped into the cavity from the loft (for first-floor
rooms) or from below the floorboards (for ground-floor rooms) without being
enclosed in trunking, and were arranged higgledy-piggledy with a large
excess of cable instead of being pulled taut to keep them roughly vertical,
so when you were hanging pictures you had no way of knowing where the
socket/lighting cables ran.

The storage heaters were fed from heavy-duty 40A shower cable cable that
emerged from roughly-cut holes in the wall and went directly to the heater,
rather than going to a wall-mounted switch into which proper flexible cable
was then wired from heater to switch.

The state of the partition walls was so bad that we had to rip them out
anyway and start again with floor-to-ceiling battens every so often and
plasterboard nailed to it, so we took the opportunity to increase the size
of the cavity so it would accommodate the backing boxes, though I forget how
we fixed them to the wall. We rewired everything (with new cable, just in
case...) and ran the cable in proper vertically mounted trunking.

That was in the days (1970s) when you could do these tasks yourself without
needing examination/approval by an electrician.

What are the rules about doing electrical work yourself nowadays? Is it just
bathrooms and kitchens (because of the presence of water) where you need to
get an electrician to do the work or to examine your work? What about
removing existing wiring to obsolete appliances - eg a ventilation fan that
is no longer used? Is it legal to disconnect the incoming feed from the
terminals of a ceiling-mounted switch and connect it to a terminal block or
junction box behind the switch to terminate the still-live cable? That's
what I did with ours - but I got my father-in-law to check it, since he's an
electrician: he said that's how he'd have dealt with the situation; he liked
the way that I'd even attached a big "Live" label to the terminal block in
case anyone were ever to unscrew the switch and expose the block and its
wiring.

What about changing a ceiling switch or a ceiling-mounted light fitting in a
bathroom where the old one is broken? Does that need to be signed-off?


Going back to the cottage, the wiring wasn't the only thing that had been
bodged. We found a big breezeblock-lined pit in the back garden with a sewer
pipe emerging into it half way up. It had clearly never been used as a
cesspit and the house had a newer septic tank which was fine. We worked out
*why* the original pit had never been used when we examined the levels: the
outlet of this sewer pipe into the breezeblock pit was *higher* by a foot
than the level of the toilet in the house... How were they intending **** to
go uphill? :-)

It was useful as a dumping ground for the old rusty battered storage heaters
and all the rubble we generated from building work, and my parents then got
someone to fill in the rest of the hole with a JCB and level out the back
garden. In several centuries some archaeologist is going dig down and find
those storage heaters. I wonder if he'll work out the problem with the
levels and realise why it was never used for its intended purpose!

On 27/08/15 13:55, NY wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
I don't know why he didn't just surface mount it as most people do...

What is the problem with sinking the socket into the brickwork?

Nothing in of itself

Is it the extra effort (and therefore time), or is it that it penetrates
the outer skin of the cavity wall which then needs to be sealed to make
it waterproof to prevent water entering the cavity?

It's the "I am a gash bodger" factor in his case. If he'd just screwed
it on the wall (preferably using the weatherproofed mounting holes) it
would have looked fine.


Talking of dodgy wiring, my parents bought a very old cottage which had
been badly modernised some time in the 1960s. The internal walls were
very old lath-and-plaster, and the backing boxes for the sockets and
switches had been glued to the opposite laths because there was no way
to screw it in, also the cavity between the laths for one wall and the
wall in the next room was almost but not quite deep enough to take a
backing box, so all the sockets stood out slightly proud.

Tricky that. Another option being to use surface mount sockets with rear
entry cables.


The wires had been dropped into the cavity from the loft (for
first-floor rooms) or from below the floorboards (for ground-floor
rooms) without being enclosed in trunking, and were arranged
higgledy-piggledy with a large excess of cable instead of being pulled
taut to keep them roughly vertical, so when you were hanging pictures
you had no way of knowing where the socket/lighting cables ran.

Believe me, it's no different with a new build stud wall! Except it's
against the regs. But that does not seem to stop them.

The storage heaters were fed from heavy-duty 40A shower cable cable that
emerged from roughly-cut holes in the wall and went directly to the
heater, rather than going to a wall-mounted switch into which proper
flexible cable was then wired from heater to switch.

The state of the partition walls was so bad that we had to rip them out
anyway and start again with floor-to-ceiling battens every so often and
plasterboard nailed to it, so we took the opportunity to increase the
size of the cavity so it would accommodate the backing boxes, though I
forget how we fixed them to the wall. We rewired everything (with new
cable, just in case...) and ran the cable in proper vertically mounted
trunking.

That was in the days (1970s) when you could do these tasks yourself
without needing examination/approval by an electrician.

What are the rules about doing electrical work yourself nowadays? Is it
just bathrooms and kitchens (because of the presence of water) where you
need to get an electrician to do the work or to examine your work? What
about removing existing wiring to obsolete appliances - eg a ventilation
fan that is no longer used? Is it legal to disconnect the incoming feed
from the terminals of a ceiling-mounted switch and connect it to a
terminal block or junction box behind the switch to terminate the
still-live cable? That's what I did with ours - but I got my
father-in-law to check it, since he's an electrician: he said that's how
he'd have dealt with the situation; he liked the way that I'd even
attached a big "Live" label to the terminal block in case anyone were
ever to unscrew the switch and expose the block and its wiring.

You can notify notifiable work to the council's LABC. What they then do
is a bit random.

What about changing a ceiling switch or a ceiling-mounted light fitting
in a bathroom where the old one is broken? Does that need to be signed-off?

No.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ifiable_job.3F


Going back to the cottage, the wiring wasn't the only thing that had
been bodged. We found a big breezeblock-lined pit in the back garden
with a sewer pipe emerging into it half way up. It had clearly never
been used as a cesspit and the house had a newer septic tank which was
fine. We worked out *why* the original pit had never been used when we
examined the levels: the outlet of this sewer pipe into the breezeblock
pit was *higher* by a foot than the level of the toilet in the house...
How were they intending **** to go uphill? :-)

It was useful as a dumping ground for the old rusty battered storage
heaters and all the rubble we generated from building work, and my
parents then got someone to fill in the rest of the hole with a JCB and
level out the back garden. In several centuries some archaeologist is
going dig down and find those storage heaters. I wonder if he'll work
out the problem with the levels and realise why it was never used for
its intended purpose!

It'll be the subject of someone's PhD in 500 years!

I hope you drew pictures of the god Mars with a 3' boner on every
heater. That would get the university going!

(Google Images for: naughty pompeii graffiti )

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:22:24 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Talking of dodgy wiring, my parents bought a very old cottage which had
been badly modernised some time in the 1960s. The internal walls were
very old lath-and-plaster, and the backing boxes for the sockets and
switches had been glued to the opposite laths because there was no way
to screw it in, also the cavity between the laths for one wall and the
wall in the next room was almost but not quite deep enough to take a
backing box, so all the sockets stood out slightly proud.

Tricky that. Another option being to use surface mount sockets with rear
entry cables.

We've got a few semi-sunken sockets here - my favourite's the one in the
bedroom which is just wedged into the hole in the plaster, with the outer
skim attempting to hold it. Of course, it hasn't...

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 27/08/15 13:55, NY wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
I don't know why he didn't just surface mount it as most people do...

What is the problem with sinking the socket into the brickwork?

Nothing in of itself

Is it the extra effort (and therefore time), or is it that it penetrates
the outer skin of the cavity wall which then needs to be sealed to make
it waterproof to prevent water entering the cavity?

It's the "I am a gash bodger" factor in his case. If he'd just screwed it
on the wall (preferably using the weatherproofed mounting holes) it would
have looked fine.


Or used the proper flush mounting kit that MK make for their outside
sockets!

--
Adam

On 27/08/15 18:21, ARW wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 27/08/15 13:55, NY wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
I don't know why he didn't just surface mount it as most people do...

What is the problem with sinking the socket into the brickwork?

Nothing in of itself

Is it the extra effort (and therefore time), or is it that it penetrates
the outer skin of the cavity wall which then needs to be sealed to make
it waterproof to prevent water entering the cavity?

It's the "I am a gash bodger" factor in his case. If he'd just screwed
it on the wall (preferably using the weatherproofed mounting holes) it
would have looked fine.


Or used the proper flush mounting kit that MK make for their outside
sockets!


They do? Hmmm must check...

On 27/08/2015 13:55, NY wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
I don't know why he didn't just surface mount it as most people do...

What is the problem with sinking the socket into the brickwork?

In principle none. However in this case the box was not really designed
to be sunk. If you were going to sink it, then why not bring the power
feed in through the back of the box rather than as a lash up from the
front.

Also he drilled the box for mounting screws when there was no need. He
did not seal the cable entry. He earthed a plastic box!, and did not
apparently think it worthwhile allowing for an earth connection to the
socket itself.

[snip tale of dodgy wiring]

That was in the days (1970s) when you could do these tasks yourself
without needing examination/approval by an electrician.

You still can mostly.

What are the rules about doing electrical work yourself nowadays? Is it
just bathrooms and kitchens (because of the presence of water) where you
need to get an electrician to do the work or to examine your work? What

Pretty much - also changing a consumer unit. You can also do stuff like
that under a building notice.

about removing existing wiring to obsolete appliances - eg a ventilation
fan that is no longer used? Is it legal to disconnect the incoming feed
from the terminals of a ceiling-mounted switch and connect it to a
terminal block or junction box behind the switch to terminate the
still-live cable? That's what I did with ours - but I got my

You are better disconnecting an unwanted feed at he supply end. However
you can also do it at the far end. The wires need to be terminated and
enclosed. So a junction box with nothing else connected is ok. A bit of
chock block and some insulating tape is not.

father-in-law to check it, since he's an electrician: he said that's how
he'd have dealt with the situation; he liked the way that I'd even
attached a big "Live" label to the terminal block in case anyone were
ever to unscrew the switch and expose the block and its wiring.

What about changing a ceiling switch or a ceiling-mounted light fitting
in a bathroom where the old one is broken? Does that need to be signed-off?

No, like for like changes are permitted even in a special location.

Going back to the cottage, the wiring wasn't the only thing that had
been bodged. We found a big breezeblock-lined pit in the back garden
with a sewer pipe emerging into it half way up. It had clearly never
been used as a cesspit and the house had a newer septic tank which was
fine. We worked out *why* the original pit had never been used when we
examined the levels: the outlet of this sewer pipe into the breezeblock
pit was *higher* by a foot than the level of the toilet in the house...
How were they intending **** to go uphill? :-)

Only in management does it do that ;-)

It was useful as a dumping ground for the old rusty battered storage
heaters and all the rubble we generated from building work, and my
parents then got someone to fill in the rest of the hole with a JCB and
level out the back garden. In several centuries some archaeologist is
going dig down and find those storage heaters. I wonder if he'll work
out the problem with the levels and realise why it was never used for
its intended purpose!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

NY wrote:

What is the problem with sinking the socket into the brickwork?

In principle none. However in this case the box was not really designed
to be sunk. If you were going to sink it, then why not bring the power
feed in through the back of the box rather than as a lash up from the
front.

I think that was a second feed out to some lights ...

Richard wrote:
wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 8:16:28 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz-gvvtVDt8

I love the comments others have made.

--
Adam

Better hope the leccysafetyfirst moaners don't see this, it's
exactly what they would like to see to prove how unsafe allowing
d-i-y is. Philip

Ah. But that wasn't DIY, it was a professional.

FSVO "professional".
https://sites.google.com/site/electr...tec/recruiting :

"Since 1997 I have been trying to make a success of my local electrical
business but without much luck.

Yes, I have a few customers who call on me occasionally to work on their
electrics but mostly I spend my time working for a national company as a
training officer.

I'm hoping to find someone who is interested in getting some experience
as an electrician but also someone who is able to support themselves
without a constant stream of work. As we work together I am hoping we
will generate more and more business until eventually we can set up a
proper company."

Now there's an offer for someone in Surrey
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 27/08/15 09:14, Robin wrote:

FSVO "professional".
https://sites.google.com/site/electr...tec/recruiting :

"Since 1997 I have been trying to make a success of my local electrical
business but without much luck.



"You should NOT apply for this job if:
....
You are afraid of getting an electric shock (I've had more electrical
shocks than I can remember - if you're working alongside me... well,
think about it)"


So he's a sloppy dangerous bugger then.

Everyone's probably had at least one shock, but to talk like that means
no one should set foot in the same room as him when he's working.