In message , Adrian
writes
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 20:53:42 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

INCOME tax...? We're not talking about income here...

Inheritance tax only comes into play if the estate is over £325k. Below
that, it's zero.

I thought the value might be considered by IR as unearned income or
something. So hopefully I should have nothing to pay in those terms?

No, an inheritance isn't taxed at all - apart from as IHT. Obviously, any
income you earn from anything you invest is, though.

I think income after death is taxable. I was told because the *earner*
is deceased there is no tax free allowance.

--
Tim Lamb

On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 14:31:31 +0100
Malcolm Race wrote:

On 07/07/2015 14:17, Bob Minchin wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit
of a spin. She owned the house and contents, much of which is a
result of the time and money I invested in it over the decades.

Decades ago, she had her will via her solicitors was drawn up so
as I would inherit the house and contents entirely, but we never
married and there was never any official formal arrangement.

This, as I anticipated it would, has come back to bite me. There
were rows at the time over her having her will written without
discussing it with me first. Unfortunately a very stubborn lady.

I am a named executor, along with two of the solicitors. The
solicitors are rubbing their hands over the likely admin fee,
though they did suggest I could do it all myself - but it would
take months and I would need to organise Probate. Probate forms
look to be straight forward enough.

Her main life cover paid out surprisingly, with just a phone call
- the cheque in my name turned up yesterday. For a second much
smaller policy a different insurance company - they want a form
filled in, a copy of the will, a death certificate and names
signatures from the three executors.

The solicitor refused to sign the document, I suspect they are
trying to have me over a barrel and force me to use them, but the
law seems to be on their side on this point. Where do I go from
here?

The solicitors were fairly adamant that it was her desire when
writing the will, that I should use them to sort the mess out -
there is no proof of this, other than their word and the solicitor
was not the one who even spoke to her at the time. The one I spoke
to would likely have been in nappies when the will was set out.

Assuming, no reason why not and I do get the property, will there
be any tax implications for me - will I owe them anything?







Sorry to hear your news Harry.
If the will names you as the beneficiary by name (rather than "my
spouse") then I think it quite clear it should come to you.

snip

When my MiL died I was named as executor alung with her solicitor. A
phone call and letter and the will was sent to me to deal with. More
recently my wifes aunt named my wife and her solicitor as executors.
When she died the solicitor refused to hand over the will and
responsibility without a one off payment of IIRC £300. Was this
trying to make up for lose fees? - the will was quite simple.

Malcolm


I once had a problem with a solicitor, who had kept money of mine for
several months, for a deposit on a house, but 'forgot' to pay me the
required interest. A letter to The Law Society, and suddenly the
solicitor remembered that I was due said money. So it might be worth
asking them if that £300 was justified or not. If not, they will have
to account for it, and risk their license to solicit.

--
Davey.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit of a
spin. She owned the house and contents, much of which is a result of the
time and money I invested in it over the decades.

Decades ago, she had her will via her solicitors was drawn up so as I
would inherit the house and contents entirely, but we never married and
there was never any official formal arrangement.

This, as I anticipated it would, has come back to bite me. There were rows
at the time over her having her will written without discussing it with me
first. Unfortunately a very stubborn lady.

I am a named executor, along with two of the solicitors. The solicitors
are rubbing their hands over the likely admin fee, though they did suggest
I could do it all myself - but it would take months and I would need to
organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward enough.

Her main life cover paid out surprisingly, with just a phone call - the
cheque in my name turned up yesterday. For a second much smaller policy a
different insurance company - they want a form filled in, a copy of the
will, a death certificate and names signatures from the three executors.

The solicitor refused to sign the document, I suspect they are trying to
have me over a barrel and force me to use them,

It's more likely that they have convinced themselves that she
included two of them as executors for a reason, even if they
are wrong about that and are unlikely to agree to being
removed as executors for that reason.

but the law seems to
be on their side on this point. Where do I go from here?

IMO the best approach is to do all the paperwork yourself and
ensure that all they have to do is sign off on what you have
done and so minimise what they can charge you to do that.

The solicitors were fairly adamant that it was her desire when writing the
will, that I should use them to sort the mess out - there is no proof of
this, other than their word and the solicitor was not the one who even
spoke to her at the time. The one I spoke to would likely have been in
nappies when the will was set out.

But there is the evidence that two of them are included in the
will as executors and you'd have to show that that wasn't a
deliberate choice on her part to force them to give up being
executors now, and that would likely cost more to do than
to just do all the paperwork yourself and have them sign off
on that.

Assuming, no reason why not and I do get the property, will there be any
tax implications for me - will I owe them anything?

The estate is certainly due for any tax due on the income
that happens until probate is granted, but that won't affect
you personally because you say elsewhere that you only
get to inherit the property and that the cash is distributed
to the grandkids and isn't likely to amount to much anyway,
just a small part of the interest on the bank account presumably.

On 07/07/2015 13:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit of a
spin.

Very sorry to hear that Harry. My condolences.

need to organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward enough.

Not got much to add other than, for most folks DIY probate is certainly
doable. IIRC there are server guide books available with step by step
instructions (and n doubt web sites as well these days)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:43:01 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

I thought the value might be considered by IR as unearned income
or
something. So hopefully I should have nothing to pay in those
terms?

Once the total value of the estate has been totted up, any debts
settled, credit colected if that total is over £325k the bit over
£325k will be liable to IHT. Pay that (if any) get probate granted
and the remaining estate is then distributed, tax free, to the
benificaries as per the Will.

If a lump of inherited cash earns interest in a bank account that
interest is taxed in the normal way. Likewise invest the cash in
stocks/shares, any gain when you sell those stocks/shares will be
liable to Capital Gains Tax if the total amount of gains in a year is
over the CGT threshold.

If Harry's wife had any investments they will probably need to be
sold and the proceeds put into the estate, any gains on those sale(s)
would follow the CGT rules.

I think income after death is taxable. I was told because the *earner*
is deceased there is no tax free allowance.

That is income to the deceased estate though not income to anybody
else.

One key rule about tax is that once *you* have paid tax on a given
lump of money *you* shouldn't have to pay tax on it again. "Double
Taxation" is, generally, a big no no.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 08/07/2015 02:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/07/2015 13:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit of a
spin.

Very sorry to hear that Harry. My condolences.

need to organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward
enough.

Not got much to add other than, for most folks DIY probate is certainly
doable. IIRC there are server guide books available with step by step
instructions (and n doubt web sites as well these days)



Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since most
of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:00:18 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since most
of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

If Harry's partner had died intestate, Harry would receive nothing.

In article ,
Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 19:10:51 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Off the top of my head, the total value will be possibly as much as
£200K.

Then IHT is irrelevant, and it should all be straightforward.

Are you sure there are no income tax issues?

INCOME tax...? We're not talking about income here...

executors have to settle any outstanding income tax bills.

Inheritance tax only comes into play if the estate is over £325k. Below
that, it's zero.

--
Please note new email address:

From what happened when my parents died, I'd expect it all to last over 6
months before the major items are sorted.
This sort of thing with letters of administration and who is happy with
copies of documents and who can work from copies etc seems t have been
designed deliberately to cause as much chaos to the persons life as
possible, with costs at every turn.
all one ends up doing is keeping meticulous records of who has had what
and all the letters back and forth. I found banks amongst the most snotty
nosed people to get facts anode action out of.
It also might be worth asking the solicitor if they would be open to just
a fixed fee for doing certain parts of the executors job rather than taking
it all on, as we did, but as you say, they may well be obstructive in this
regard.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Nick wrote :
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit of a
spin. She owned the house and contents, much of which is a result of the
time and money I invested in it over the decades.

Decades ago, she had her will via her solicitors was drawn up so as I
would inherit the house and contents entirely, but we never married and
there was never any official formal arrangement.

This, as I anticipated it would, has come back to bite me. There were
rows at the time over her having her will written without discussing it
with me first. Unfortunately a very stubborn lady.

I am a named executor, along with two of the solicitors. The solicitors
are rubbing their hands over the likely admin fee, though they did
suggest I could do it all myself - but it would take months and I would
need to organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward
enough.

Her main life cover paid out surprisingly, with just a phone call - the
cheque in my name turned up yesterday. For a second much smaller policy
a different insurance company - they want a form filled in, a copy of
the will, a death certificate and names signatures from the three
executors.

The solicitor refused to sign the document, I suspect they are trying to
have me over a barrel and force me to use them, but the law seems to be
on their side on this point. Where do I go from here?

The solicitors were fairly adamant that it was her desire when writing
the will, that I should use them to sort the mess out - there is no
proof of this, other than their word and the solicitor was not the one
who even spoke to her at the time. The one I spoke to would likely have
been in nappies when the will was set out.

Assuming, no reason why not and I do get the property, will there be any
tax implications for me - will I owe them anything?



Harry,
sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences.
I imagine there would be CGT & IHT issues.
You might be better off re-posting this to
uk.legal.moderated

All the best,
Nick.

Thanks..

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:43:01 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

I thought the value might be considered by IR as unearned income
or
something. So hopefully I should have nothing to pay in those
terms?

Once the total value of the estate has been totted up, any debts
settled, credit colected if that total is over £325k the bit over
£325k will be liable to IHT. Pay that (if any) get probate granted
and the remaining estate is then distributed, tax free, to the
benificaries as per the Will.

If a lump of inherited cash earns interest in a bank account that
interest is taxed in the normal way. Likewise invest the cash in
stocks/shares, any gain when you sell those stocks/shares will be
liable to Capital Gains Tax if the total amount of gains in a year is
over the CGT threshold.

If Harry's wife had any investments they will probably need to be sold

That's not correct.

and the proceeds put into the estate, any gains on those sale(s)
would follow the CGT rules.

I think income after death is taxable. I was told because the *earner*
is deceased there is no tax free allowance.

That is income to the deceased estate though not income to anybody
else.

One key rule about tax is that once *you* have paid tax on a given
lump of money *you* shouldn't have to pay tax on it again. "Double
Taxation" is, generally, a big no no.

On 08/07/2015 08:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:

If Harry's wife...

Partner.

--
F

www.vulcantothesky.org - 2015, the last year to see a Vulcan fly

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 08/07/2015 02:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/07/2015 13:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit of a
spin.

Very sorry to hear that Harry. My condolences.

need to organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward
enough.

Not got much to add other than, for most folks DIY probate is certainly
doable. IIRC there are server guide books available with step by step
instructions (and n doubt web sites as well these days)



Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth,

Wrong when you want something different to what
the intestacy rules produce, as they do in this case.

especially since most
of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

Most is irrelevant, what matters is what you want to happen.

On 07/07/2015 13:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Condolences.
I am a named executor, along with two of the solicitors. The solicitors
are rubbing their hands over the likely admin fee, though they did
suggest I could do it all myself - but it would take months and I would
need to organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward enough.

Probate is *usually* simple. It's just a case of collecting the
information required for a couple of forms which you can complete
online. I was executor, with my brother, on my father's Will and we
agreed I would sort it out by myself. I had probate granted within a
month of his death. It's not difficult.

Best of luck in escaping the solicitors!

--
F

www.vulcantothesky.org - 2015, the last year to see a Vulcan fly

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 9:05:52 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/07/15 20:53, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Adrian explained on 07/07/2015 :
INCOME tax...? We're not talking about income here...

Inheritance tax only comes into play if the estate is over £325k. Below
that, it's zero.

I thought the value might be considered by IR as unearned income or
something. So hopefully I should have nothing to pay in those terms?

No. Its called inheritance. Unless she gave you some money before she died



On the IHT forms the OP will need to list all the gifts she made during the last 7 years of her life (gifts to anyone, not just to the OP).


Robert

On 08/07/15 10:34, ratsack wrote:


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:43:01 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

I thought the value might be considered by IR as unearned income
or
something. So hopefully I should have nothing to pay in those
terms?

Once the total value of the estate has been totted up, any debts
settled, credit colected if that total is over £325k the bit over
£325k will be liable to IHT. Pay that (if any) get probate granted
and the remaining estate is then distributed, tax free, to the
benificaries as per the Will.

If a lump of inherited cash earns interest in a bank account that
interest is taxed in the normal way. Likewise invest the cash in
stocks/shares, any gain when you sell those stocks/shares will be
liable to Capital Gains Tax if the total amount of gains in a year is
over the CGT threshold.

If Harry's wife had any investments they will probably need to be sold

That's not correct.

that depends on whether the law recognises and unofficial marriage as a
real marriage: I can assure you that it is probably true.

One of the reasons to get married is to give legal status to a partner
that they don't otherwise have.


and the proceeds put into the estate, any gains on those sale(s)
would follow the CGT rules.

I think income after death is taxable. I was told because the *earner*
is deceased there is no tax free allowance.

That is income to the deceased estate though not income to anybody
else.

One key rule about tax is that once *you* have paid tax on a given
lump of money *you* shouldn't have to pay tax on it again. "Double
Taxation" is, generally, a big no no.




--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 1:41:10 PM UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Her main life cover paid out surprisingly, with just a phone call - the
cheque in my name turned up yesterday. For a second much smaller policy
a different insurance company - they want a form filled in, a copy of
the will, a death certificate and names signatures from the three
executors.

The difference might not be due to the different company procedures. It is possible that the OP's name was specified on the first policy (but not the second) so no probate was required to distribute the money of the first policy.

Robert

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/07/15 10:34, ratsack wrote:


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:43:01 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

I thought the value might be considered by IR as unearned income
or
something. So hopefully I should have nothing to pay in those
terms?

Once the total value of the estate has been totted up, any debts
settled, credit colected if that total is over £325k the bit over
£325k will be liable to IHT. Pay that (if any) get probate granted
and the remaining estate is then distributed, tax free, to the
benificaries as per the Will.

If a lump of inherited cash earns interest in a bank account that
interest is taxed in the normal way. Likewise invest the cash in
stocks/shares, any gain when you sell those stocks/shares will be
liable to Capital Gains Tax if the total amount of gains in a year is
over the CGT threshold.

If Harry's wife had any investments they will probably need to be sold

That's not correct.

that depends on whether the law recognises and unofficial marriage as a
real marriage: I can assure you that it is probably true.

I dont believe that. That isn't what happened with
the investments that I inherited from my father.

One of the reasons to get married is to give legal status to a partner
that they don't otherwise have.

You dont need that with a valid will.

and the proceeds put into the estate, any gains on those sale(s)
would follow the CGT rules.

I think income after death is taxable. I was told because the *earner*
is deceased there is no tax free allowance.

That is income to the deceased estate though not income to anybody
else.

One key rule about tax is that once *you* have paid tax on a given
lump of money *you* shouldn't have to pay tax on it again. "Double
Taxation" is, generally, a big no no.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

that depends on whether the law recognises and unofficial marriage as a
real marriage: I can assure you that it is probably true.

boggle

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

that depends on whether the law recognises and unofficial marriage as a
real marriage: I can assure you that it is probably true.

boggle

On 07/07/2015 18:32, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
GB has brought this to us :
On 07/07/2015 15:00, Adrian wrote:

That's not your problem at the moment, though - you need to get the
solicitors to renounce their executor status.


They might *possibly* renounce, but what will induce them to?
Solicitors write wills cheaply, as a sprat to catch a mackerel, the
mackerel being the lucrative executorship work.

Which was exactly as happened in this case - £60 when they originally
drew it up.


They can really only be removed if they act incompetently, which they
probably won't. They can argue that their client was your late partner,
not the beneficiaries, and they are just carrying out your late
partner's wishes in acting as executor. It's a pretty unassailable position.

Your position is slightly stronger, because you are named as a
co-executor. I think you should just negotiate that you will do a lot of
the spade-work and that they will charge on a time-cost basis, rather
than some percentage.

On 08/07/2015 09:32, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:00:18 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since most
of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

If Harry's partner had died intestate, Harry would receive nothing.


Except that partners normally own their home jointly and have joint bank
accounts

On 08/07/15 10:50, RobertL wrote:

On the IHT forms the OP will need to list all the gifts she made
during the last 7 years of her life (gifts to anyone, not just to the
OP).



On an aside, if you were executing a will for someone who managed their
affairs very privately, how on earth would you know or find out such
information?

Accepted that if you went through the last 7 years of bank statements
(assuming the bank could reproduce these) you might spot odd large sums
- but even then, how to verify it was a gift or not?

If the person happened to keep a lot of cash (taken out over along
period of time) or gold about their property and gifted those, I assume
verifying that would be near impossible?

Just how far is an executor suppose to go?

On 08/07/15 10:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
that depends on whether the law recognises and unofficial marriage as a
real marriage: I can assure you that it is probably true.


I did check on what rights a common law wife or husband may have - and
according to Wikipedia, in England and Wales, pretty much none as far as
I can see.

On 08/07/2015 11:47, Huge wrote:
On 2015-07-08, stuart noble wrote:
On 08/07/2015 02:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/07/2015 13:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit of a
spin.

Very sorry to hear that Harry. My condolences.

need to organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward
enough.

Not got much to add other than, for most folks DIY probate is certainly
doable. IIRC there are server guide books available with step by step
instructions (and n doubt web sites as well these days)



Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since most
of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

Idiot.


Normal families leave stuff to their spouses/offspring. If you're part
of a dysfunctional family then probably you need complicated
documentation. Jarndyce vs Jarndyce

On 08/07/2015 11:46, Huge wrote:
On 2015-07-07, Jonathan wrote:
On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 6:50:12 PM UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
stuart noble brought next idea :
There's a lot of tedious correspondence informing utility companies and the
like, but it's essentially dogsbody work, and not something you want
solicitors doing if you can help it.

I have been advised to let the utilities run until the dust settles,
paid for by DD from her account. Should the account run low, I can top
it up.

The normal thing on a death is for the bank to stop all DDs.

The moment you tell them the account-holder is dead, they will freeze the
account.


Unless it's a joint account, which I'm optimistically assuming most
"partners" would have

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:01:56 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

On 08/07/2015 11:47, Huge wrote:
On 2015-07-08, stuart noble wrote:
Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since
most of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

Idiot.

Normal families leave stuff to their spouses/offspring. If you're part
of a dysfunctional family then probably you need complicated
documentation. Jarndyce vs Jarndyce

Dear ****ing gawd.

We're talking about somebody leaving their house to their unmarried
partner here. If that's "dysfunctional" to you, then the real world is
going to come as one _hell_ of a shock.

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 11:50:46 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since
most of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

If Harry's partner had died intestate, Harry would receive nothing.

Except that partners normally own their home jointly and have joint bank
accounts

Your definition of "normal" is _incredibly_ narrow.

ratsack wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
One of the reasons to get married is to give legal status to a partner
that they don't otherwise have.

You dont need that with a valid will.

Not legally, no. But there are taxation and practical reasons why it's
advantageous to be married even with a valid will.

Note that a valid will automatically becomes invalid when you get
married. A new will is advisable.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

In article , stuart noble
wrote:
On 08/07/2015 11:46, Huge wrote:
On 2015-07-07, Jonathan wrote:
On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 6:50:12 PM UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
stuart noble brought next idea :
There's a lot of tedious correspondence informing utility companies
and the like, but it's essentially dogsbody work, and not something
you want solicitors doing if you can help it.

I have been advised to let the utilities run until the dust settles,
paid for by DD from her account. Should the account run low, I can
top it up.

The normal thing on a death is for the bank to stop all DDs.

The moment you tell them the account-holder is dead, they will freeze
the account.


Unless it's a joint account, which I'm optimistically assuming most
"partners" would have.

we do have - for the "holiday & house maintenance fund". Otherwise we each
have our own.

--
Please note new email address:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:05:49 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

Unless it's a joint account, which I'm optimistically assuming most
"partners" would have

SWMBO and I have been together nearly 20 years, and lived together for
the vast majority of that time. We aren't married. We do have a joint
account, but we also have accounts and investments in sole names.

If she died intestate, then every single penny, every single possession
that wasn't explicitly in joint names would go to the crown.

For me, it would go to my parents. If they predeceased me, anything not
in our joint names would go to my brother - who I barely have any contact
with. If he predeceased me, it would go to uncles who my parents are
barely in contact with. If they predeceased me, it would go to the crown.

Or... we could make a nice simple will.

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 08/07/2015 09:32, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:00:18 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since most
of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

If Harry's partner had died intestate, Harry would receive nothing.


Except that partners normally own their home jointly and have joint bank
accounts

They didnt do either.

On 08/07/2015 12:06, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:01:56 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

On 08/07/2015 11:47, Huge wrote:
On 2015-07-08, stuart noble wrote:
Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since
most of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

Idiot.

Normal families leave stuff to their spouses/offspring. If you're part
of a dysfunctional family then probably you need complicated
documentation. Jarndyce vs Jarndyce

Dear ****ing gawd.

We're talking about somebody leaving their house to their unmarried
partner here. If that's "dysfunctional" to you, then the real world is
going to come as one _hell_ of a shock.


I knew a bloke once who, after his wife died, left everything equally to
his son and daughter. What a weirdo!

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 08/07/2015 11:47, Huge wrote:
On 2015-07-08, stuart noble wrote:
On 08/07/2015 02:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/07/2015 13:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit of a
spin.

Very sorry to hear that Harry. My condolences.

need to organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward
enough.

Not got much to add other than, for most folks DIY probate is certainly
doable. IIRC there are server guide books available with step by step
instructions (and n doubt web sites as well these days)



Wills are usually more trouble than they're worth, especially since most
of them follow the intestacy rules anyway.

Idiot.


Normal families leave stuff to their spouses/offspring.

Harry is not her spouse and so would get nothing.

She didn’t want to leave the house to the offspring, she wanted Harry to get
it.

If you're part
of a dysfunctional family then probably you need complicated
documentation. Jarndyce vs Jarndyce

And if you aren't married, and want the other individual
to get anything at all, you need a will to achieve that result.
And the will is not complicated at all, Harry gets the house,
the grandkids get the cash divided between them, her daughter
gets the jewellery.

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 08/07/2015 11:46, Huge wrote:
On 2015-07-07, Jonathan wrote:
On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 6:50:12 PM UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
stuart noble brought next idea :
There's a lot of tedious correspondence informing utility companies
and the
like, but it's essentially dogsbody work, and not something you want
solicitors doing if you can help it.

I have been advised to let the utilities run until the dust settles,
paid for by DD from her account. Should the account run low, I can top
it up.

The normal thing on a death is for the bank to stop all DDs.

The moment you tell them the account-holder is dead, they will freeze the
account.


Unless it's a joint account, which I'm optimistically assuming most
"partners" would have

She didn’t.

On 08/07/2015 11:54, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/07/15 10:50, RobertL wrote:

On the IHT forms the OP will need to list all the gifts she made
during the last 7 years of her life (gifts to anyone, not just to the
OP).



On an aside, if you were executing a will for someone who managed their
affairs very privately, how on earth would you know or find out such
information?

You couldn't.

Accepted that if you went through the last 7 years of bank statements
(assuming the bank could reproduce these) you might spot odd large sums
- but even then, how to verify it was a gift or not?

I can tell you from experience that the burden of proof is firmly on
you. It's 40% unless you can prove otherwise. The last one I dealt with
ground to a halt because the bank could not provide cheque stubs, so the
payee couldn't be identified. Jolly frustrating, but it's no doubt
easier these days.

If the person happened to keep a lot of cash (taken out over along
period of time) or gold about their property and gifted those, I assume
verifying that would be near impossible?

Anything going out of the account in the previous 7 years will be deemed
a gift by default. *******s

Just how far is an executor suppose to go?

Just the 7 years.

I have a mate whose stamp collection is worth more than his house. No
audit trail there. Smart guy

On 07/07/2015 23:13, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Harry
Bloomfield wrote:

Scott M brought next idea :

FYI, probate on simple estates is trivially easy to do, so don't get
suckered into paying Grabbit & Leggit to deal with it.

Condolences and good wishes to you.

Condolences.

The only advantage of having a solicitor do it is if they are on a fixed
fee and you feel too distracted to deal with all the paperwork.

Another option is to have the solicitors do the tedious paperwork of the
application and then collect in money yourself once probate is granted
and the letters of administration are issued.

Thanks, I'm beginning to pull out of the despair now - it was just one
week ago, to the minute and anticipated by everyone for the past few
years so says everyone, but me. Living so close, you just don't see
the gradual deterioration.

Trivial is the word, I just need to find and work out the IT something
or other form(s).

SWMBO says google for probate, there is a gov.uk site it seems which
guides you through it (she did her mother's a year ago). Just be sure
you're on a pukka UK Govt website. This way, also, you'll be sure to be
getting the latest forms and not out of date ones.

Unless you are on an Apple you will probably need to download a decent
PDF tool - the free version of PDF-Xchange seems to work OK with the
official probate forms. Several others I tried could not compute the
subtotals as they seem to have used some non-standard Adobe extensions.

If you bought the full version of AdobePDF then you might well find the
solicitors were a bargain by comparison (and it is pushing it to do
everything to completion inside the free evaluation period). YMMV

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 08/07/15 12:36, stuart noble wrote:

Anything going out of the account in the previous 7 years will be deemed
a gift by default. *******s

Anything that cannot be verified to be in procurement of goods or
settlement of a bill I presume?

I don't think it can be quite that retarded. Otherwise someone who
withdrew £50-100 each week to buy groceries would be deemed to have
"gifted" £18k-36k which would have a non trivial impact.

Having dealt with probate, I cannot recall HMRC wanting to see the last
7 years of bank transactions.

Just how far is an executor suppose to go?
Just the 7 years.

I meant in terms of effort?

I have a mate whose stamp collection is worth more than his house. No
audit trail there. Smart guy

I am sorely tempted to start hiding gold kruggerands all over the place...

On 08/07/15 11:59, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/07/15 10:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
that depends on whether the law recognises and unofficial marriage as a
real marriage: I can assure you that it is probably true.


I did check on what rights a common law wife or husband may have - and
according to Wikipedia, in England and Wales, pretty much none as far as
I can see.

That has been my experience, yes.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 07/07/2015 18:50, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
stuart noble brought next idea :

There's a lot of tedious correspondence informing utility companies
and the like, but it's essentially dogsbody work, and not something
you want solicitors doing if you can help it.

Indeed.

I have been advised to let the utilities run until the dust settles,
paid for by DD from her account. Should the account run low, I can top
it up.

The bank should lock down all of her accounts immediately that you
notify them of her death. This may result in some fraction of the last
month of pension payment bouncing and letters from her pension provider.

Make a list of everyone who needs to be notified and work down it.

To give the solicitor her due, she did say I could save a lot of her
fees, by my sorting it all out and laying it on a plate for her to
finalise. She also said she was the cheapest solicitor in the firm.

That might be a sensible way to proceed unless you are very comfortable
with administering copious tedious paperwork. It is relatively easy to
collect up the money once probate has been granted - amenable to DIY.

The probate forms aren't intended to be deliberately opaque and obtuse
but they are by no means an easy read. Written by lawyers for lawyers...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:36:55 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

Accepted that if you went through the last 7 years of bank statements
(assuming the bank could reproduce these) you might spot odd large sums
- but even then, how to verify it was a gift or not?

I can tell you from experience that the burden of proof is firmly on
you. It's 40% unless you can prove otherwise. The last one I dealt with
ground to a halt because the bank could not provide cheque stubs, so the
payee couldn't be identified.

Not that cheque stubs are any kind of guarantee of anything anyway.

Jolly frustrating, but it's no doubt easier these days.

Ooh, look, an Amazon payment. I wonder what it was or who it was
delivered to...