Hi all,

Do you recall a few years back there was a sort of scandal surrounding
one of the major paint manufacturers whose "brilliant white" turned to a
sort of sepia/magnolia shade in a matter of a few months. I'm about to
buy a large amount of brilliant white and want to avoid the ******s that
made the bad stuff (and refused to compensate those who used their rotten
old paint in good faith). I *think* the guilt party was either Crown or
Dulux but can't recall which - if either. Can anyone help me out here?

cheers,
cd.

Cursitor Doom wrote:
Hi all,

Do you recall a few years back there was a sort of scandal surrounding
one of the major paint manufacturers whose "brilliant white" turned to a
sort of sepia/magnolia shade in a matter of a few months. I'm about to
buy a large amount of brilliant white and want to avoid the ******s that
made the bad stuff (and refused to compensate those who used their rotten
old paint in good faith). I *think* the guilt party was either Crown or
Dulux but can't recall which - if either. Can anyone help me out here?

cheers,
cd.

I'm not sure that the moniker "shyster" is fair. As I understand it, with
brilliant white paint, UV exposure is important. Paint not exposed to UV
light yellows. It's in the nature of the stuff.

Tim

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Cursitor Doom wrote:
Hi all,

Do you recall a few years back there was a sort of scandal surrounding
one of the major paint manufacturers whose "brilliant white" turned to a
sort of sepia/magnolia shade in a matter of a few months. I'm about to
buy a large amount of brilliant white and want to avoid the ******s that
made the bad stuff (and refused to compensate those who used their rotten
old paint in good faith). I *think* the guilt party was either Crown or
Dulux but can't recall which - if either. Can anyone help me out here?

cheers,
cd.

I'm not sure that the moniker "shyster" is fair. As I understand it, with
brilliant white paint, UV exposure is important. Paint not exposed to UV
light yellows. It's in the nature of the stuff.

It's only been a problem since they gave up using lead oxide as a pigment.

harryagain wrote:

"Tim+" wrote:

As I understand it, with brilliant white paint, UV exposure is
important. Paint not exposed to UV light yellows.

It's only been a problem since they gave up using lead oxide as a pigment.

I thought titanium oxide was the main white pigment?

Chris Hogg wrote:

Traditionally the main white pigment in paint was white lead

See http://tinyurl.com/opgrn92

"White lead mixes well with linseed oil - with which it has what is
sometimes described as a natural affinity-other oils, and turpentine.
It is used both as a white paint and as a base for mixed paints, for
interior or exterior application. For certain purposes, such as, for
example, on out*side woodwork, it has few equals and no superior."

I dragged an old (20 year?) tin of white undercoat out of the shed a
couple of days ago, there was a deep layer of what smelt like linseed
oil on top, and the solids were beige and lumpy like curdled milk, it
mixed back together pretty well and became white, no problems at all
using it ...

The problem nowadays is that much paint is basically brand engineered, so
its often hard to know which is the best.
A friend recons paint made by Valspar is very good, but I'm sure it was
recently brand puurchased by one of the DIYSheds, so is probably just like
all the others!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Cursitor Doom wrote:
Hi all,

Do you recall a few years back there was a sort of scandal surrounding
one of the major paint manufacturers whose "brilliant white" turned to a
sort of sepia/magnolia shade in a matter of a few months. I'm about to
buy a large amount of brilliant white and want to avoid the ******s that
made the bad stuff (and refused to compensate those who used their rotten
old paint in good faith). I *think* the guilt party was either Crown or
Dulux but can't recall which - if either. Can anyone help me out here?

cheers,
cd.

I'm not sure that the moniker "shyster" is fair. As I understand it, with
brilliant white paint, UV exposure is important. Paint not exposed to UV
light yellows. It's in the nature of the stuff.

Tim

On 30/05/2015 06:40, harryagain wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Cursitor Doom wrote:
Hi all,

Do you recall a few years back there was a sort of scandal surrounding
one of the major paint manufacturers whose "brilliant white" turned to a
sort of sepia/magnolia shade in a matter of a few months. I'm about to
buy a large amount of brilliant white and want to avoid the ******s that
made the bad stuff (and refused to compensate those who used their rotten
old paint in good faith). I *think* the guilt party was either Crown or
Dulux but can't recall which - if either. Can anyone help me out here?

cheers,
cd.

I'm not sure that the moniker "shyster" is fair. As I understand it, with
brilliant white paint, UV exposure is important. Paint not exposed to UV
light yellows. It's in the nature of the stuff.

It's only been a problem since they gave up using lead oxide as a pigment.

They changed to titanium dioxide because it overcame the problem of
white lead yellowing when exposed to coal fire smoke.

--
Colin Bignell

In article ,
Nightjar cpb@ insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
They changed to titanium dioxide because it overcame the problem of
white lead yellowing when exposed to coal fire smoke.

Nothing to do with lead being banned from most paints?

--
*Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:27:19 +0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
wrote:

Hi all,

Do you recall a few years back there was a sort of scandal surrounding
one of the major paint manufacturers whose "brilliant white" turned to a
sort of sepia/magnolia shade in a matter of a few months. I'm about to
buy a large amount of brilliant white and want to avoid the ******s that
made the bad stuff (and refused to compensate those who used their rotten
old paint in good faith). I *think* the guilt party was either Crown or
Dulux but can't recall which - if either. Can anyone help me out here?


It was a problem of around 10 years ago, when the paint was
reformulated to comply with a change in European regulations. I think
that it only affected gloss. Crown, who I had just finished working
for, labelled their tins with a warning that the colour might not be
stable but Dulux didn't, hence the story Jonno linked to.
(I had a litre of Crown gloss that discoloured but most of it's been
repainted since, and that which hasn't can't be seen until I open one
particular door.)

On 30/05/2015 11:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar cpb@ insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
They changed to titanium dioxide because it overcame the problem of
white lead yellowing when exposed to coal fire smoke.

Nothing to do with lead being banned from most paints?


Titanium dioxide was introduced as a paint pigment in the 1950s. Lead in
paint available to the public was banned in 1992.

--
Colin Bignell

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Do you recall a few years back there was a sort of scandal surrounding
one of the major paint manufacturers whose "brilliant white" turned to a
sort of sepia/magnolia shade in a matter of a few months. I'm about to
buy a large amount of brilliant white and want to avoid the ******s that
made the bad stuff (and refused to compensate those who used their rotten
old paint in good faith). I *think* the guilt party was either Crown or
Dulux but can't recall which - if either. Can anyone help me out here?

If it's a 'large amount' it's unlikely to be gloss.
If it's emulsion paint, then this wasn't affected and on a related note,
you'd be wise to avoid the sheds as it usually branded as crown or dulux but
is in fact watered down rubbish, go to a trade paint outlet and get
something decent like Jhonsons or MacPhersons like the pros use

In message , Peter Johnson
writes
It was a problem of around 10 years ago, when the paint was
reformulated to comply with a change in European regulations. I think
that it only affected gloss. Crown, who I had just finished working
for, labelled their tins with a warning that the colour might not be
stable but Dulux didn't, hence the story Jonno linked to. (I had a
litre of Crown gloss that discoloured but most of it's been repainted
since, and that which hasn't can't be seen until I open one particular
door.)

Here is something that I posted in this forum 2 years ago. It might be
relevant.

" My son has bought new primed cast iron drain pipes to replace the
120yo ones that have rusted away. He wanted to match the original paint,
which was a sort of matt white. I went to a local supplier who provided
5L "Johnstone's flat oil-based brilliant white".

Son painted 2 coats in his garage and said the paint seemed excellent,
and I admired the results when I visited.

Then on Monday he finally read what it said on the tin and sent me an
email expressing, shall we say, dismay. The tin and the datasheet
say

"A solvent-borne, traditional matt finish formulated for interior
use. Based on an alkyd resin it provides excellent obliteration
and flow characteristics and produces a smooth even finish
with excellent durability".

I rang and spoke to the Johnstone's technical support desk, who said the
formulation was exactly what they would use for an exterior paint, and
the reason it said "Interior" was that getting it independently
certified for "Exterior" was a long and expensive process, so hadn't be
done for this paint.
I then asked about yellowing and they said that yellowing would only
take place in low light conditions indoors eg on skirting boards and
that the paint would be fine used externally in natural UV light.

So we have a paint sold as interior that is better as an exterior paint.

I blame the EU."

2 years on, he has one section of drainpipe fixed to the wall and the 2
hoppers. The scaffolding tower had to be moved to another part of the
grounds for a more urgent job. The paint has not yellowed.
--
Bill

On Sat, 30 May 2015 12:50:23 +0100, Phil L wrote:

If it's a 'large amount' it's unlikely to be gloss.
If it's emulsion paint, then this wasn't affected and on a related note,
you'd be wise to avoid the sheds as it usually branded as crown or dulux
but is in fact watered down rubbish, go to a trade paint outlet and get
something decent like Jhonsons or MacPhersons like the pros use

Sounds like good advice; I'll take it!

On Sat, 30 May 2015 15:02:11 +0100, Bill wrote:

I then asked about yellowing and they said that yellowing would only
take place in low light conditions indoors eg on skirting boards and
that the paint would be fine used externally in natural UV light.

This sounds counter-intuitive. In the past I've always associated
yellowing with UV exposure!


I blame the EU.

So do I. For everything. And I'm usually justified.

In message , Cursitor Doom
writes
On Sat, 30 May 2015 15:02:11 +0100, Bill wrote:

I then asked about yellowing and they said that yellowing would only
take place in low light conditions indoors eg on skirting boards and
that the paint would be fine used externally in natural UV light.

This sounds counter-intuitive. In the past I've always associated
yellowing with UV exposure!

Maybe, but it is what happens (or did with the older solvent borne gloss
paints anyway)

In our old house, bought in 1997, and not really redecorated for some
years, there were yellowed shield shaped areas on the white glass
painted panelled stairway
--
Chris French