As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

"gareth" wrote in message
...
As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?



I just accept that fence posts rot...it is the digging the wood out of the
metal post spikes that ****es me off.....

On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

Even pressure treated timber will rot eventually. What I do is either
use concrete spurs or posts or ensure than the post hole is well
drained.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On 11/05/2015 11:26, Jonno wrote:
gareth scribbled


As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?


Or wrap the lower part of the post in plastic, which won't rot for 200
years. Course it'll also trap moisture in the wood too.

That is the problem, if the wood has to be below ground the only answer
is good pressure treatment and excellent drainage.

In message , Mark
writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

Even pressure treated timber will rot eventually. What I do is either
use concrete spurs or posts or ensure than the post hole is well
drained.

Dry soil is not necessarily good.

I am replacing some treated softwood post and rail installed about 20
years ago. All are suffering from *footrot*. The *dry* ones next to some
established conifers have about 18" of powdery rot with 6" only left
extractable from the bottom of the hole.

Where the soil is more moist, only the first 6" has fully rotted with
the rest sound enough to grip and extract.

None of my usual suppliers have stock on Creosote but I was able to get
some delivered from Creosote Sales Ltd. You need to be a professional
user:-(

--
Tim Lamb

On 11/05/2015 11:11, gareth wrote:
As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

I would simply use oak, as I did for a pergola. Twenty years on, it
still shows no signs of rot.

--
Colin Bignell

On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:39:54 AM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?



I just accept that fence posts rot...it is the digging the wood out of the
metal post spikes that ****es me off.....

I don't have that problem. The metal post spikes rust away long before the wood rots.

wrote in message
...
On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:39:54 AM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters
the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further
couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?



I just accept that fence posts rot...it is the digging the wood out of
the
metal post spikes that ****es me off.....

I don't have that problem. The metal post spikes rust away long before the
wood rots.

lucky you...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

Even pressure treated timber will rot eventually. What I do is either
use concrete spurs or posts or ensure than the post hole is well drained.

I use steel posts. Leaves timber posts for dead.

On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 12/05/2015 10:36, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.


I think the best you can do is pack the post with a free draining
material like gravel. A weak cement/gravel mix drains well and is easy
to knock off when the post needs replacing.
ISTR reading on here that this is the most cost effective strategy for
agricultural applications.

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an
angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite
preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in
well), then fit a water-tight bung.
--
Ian

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the depth
of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an angle of
45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite preservative
(several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in well), then fit a
water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at
an angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite
preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in
well), then fit a water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

It's amazing how many things are not used simply because no one has
thought of them - or if they have, hasn't bothered to try them.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

This is intended to 'top up' the original pressure treatment (which, of
course, doesn't last for ever). If unpressurised water can permeate the
wood, so can preservative. Even if it doesn't help, it's unlikely to do
any harm.
--
Ian

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
news
In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an
angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite
preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in
well), then fit a water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

It's amazing how many things are not used simply because no one has
thought of them - or if they have, hasn't bothered to try them.

Not with something as common as rotting wooden fence posts.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

This is intended to 'top up' the original pressure treatment (which, of
course, doesn't last for ever).

Sure, but if it doesn't soak into the wood when not
under pressure, there will be nothing to top up.

If unpressurised water can permeate the wood,

It's doing that with the outside of the post.

so can preservative.

Not necessarily with a hole inside the post.

Even if it doesn't help, it's unlikely to do any harm.

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
news
In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in
message ...
In message o.uk,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at
an angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your
favourite preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative
to soak in well), then fit a water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

It's amazing how many things are not used simply because no one has
thought of them - or if they have, hasn't bothered to try them.

Not with something as common as rotting wooden fence posts.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

This is intended to 'top up' the original pressure treatment (which,
of course, doesn't last for ever).

Sure, but if it doesn't soak into the wood when not
under pressure, there will be nothing to top up.

If unpressurised water can permeate the wood,

It's doing that with the outside of the post.

so can preservative.

Not necessarily with a hole inside the post.

Even if it doesn't help, it's unlikely to do any harm.

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

If you fill up the hole, and leave it for an hour or so, you will
probably find that the preservative has vanished. Where has it gone? Has
it evaporated? No - it has soaked into the wood. So you top it up a few
times more, until it the wood has absorbed as much as it can. If you
repeat the treatment once in a while - especially when the post is
getting a bit old and the original preservative is becoming less
effective, I think you'll find that it will forestall the evil day when
the rot eventually begins to set in.
--
Ian

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
news
In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where
the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at
an angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your
favourite preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative to
soak in well), then fit a water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

It's amazing how many things are not used simply because no one has
thought of them - or if they have, hasn't bothered to try them.

Not with something as common as rotting wooden fence posts.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

This is intended to 'top up' the original pressure treatment (which, of
course, doesn't last for ever).

Sure, but if it doesn't soak into the wood when not
under pressure, there will be nothing to top up.

If unpressurised water can permeate the wood,

It's doing that with the outside of the post.

so can preservative.

Not necessarily with a hole inside the post.

Even if it doesn't help, it's unlikely to do any harm.

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

If you fill up the hole, and leave it for an hour or so, you will probably
find that the preservative has vanished.

Unlikely, and if it does, your scheme won't work because
you'd have to keep filling it up again every hour.

Where has it gone? Has it evaporated? No - it has soaked into the wood.

If it's gone in an hour, it's much more likely it has run out a crack.

So you top it up a few times more, until it the wood has absorbed as much
as it can.

Which is very unlikely to be anywhere near the
outside of the post which is where it will rot.

There's a reason posts are pressure treated.

If you repeat the treatment once in a while - especially when the post is
getting a bit old and the original preservative is becoming less
effective, I think you'll find that it will forestall the evil day when
the rot eventually begins to set in.

It won't. That is why posts are pressure treated.

/Jacko/q

**** off woddles

Jim K

In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in
message news In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in
message ...
In message
hill.co.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant
where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to
the depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground,
and at an angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with
your favourite preservative (several fills, and allow the
preservative to soak in well), then fit a water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

It's amazing how many things are not used simply because no one has
thought of them - or if they have, hasn't bothered to try them.

Not with something as common as rotting wooden fence posts.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

This is intended to 'top up' the original pressure treatment
(which, of course, doesn't last for ever).

Sure, but if it doesn't soak into the wood when not
under pressure, there will be nothing to top up.

If unpressurised water can permeate the wood,

It's doing that with the outside of the post.

so can preservative.

Not necessarily with a hole inside the post.

Even if it doesn't help, it's unlikely to do any harm.

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

If you fill up the hole, and leave it for an hour or so, you will
probably find that the preservative has vanished.

Unlikely, and if it does, your scheme won't work because
you'd have to keep filling it up again every hour.

You're completely missing the point. As the wood becomes more saturated,
the preservative takes progressively longer to disappear. If it
continues to disappear, the wood is very porous - which is probably an
indication that it won't last long without continual TLC.

Where has it gone? Has it evaporated? No - it has soaked into the wood.

If it's gone in an hour, it's much more likely it has run out a crack.

In which case, you should take care to choose better posts when you next
buy some.

So you top it up a few times more, until it the wood has absorbed as
much as it can.

Which is very unlikely to be anywhere near the
outside of the post which is where it will rot.

There's a reason posts are pressure treated.

But it doesn't last for ever. Even telegraph poles have a rot-by date.

If you repeat the treatment once in a while - especially when the
post is getting a bit old and the original preservative is becoming
less effective, I think you'll find that it will forestall the evil
day when the rot eventually begins to set in.

It won't. That is why posts are pressure treated.

Which doesn't last for ever.

However, I will leave you to bow to your superior experiences in such
matters.



--
Ian

In message , Ian Jackson
writes
In message , Jacko
writes

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

If you fill up the hole, and leave it for an hour or so, you will
probably find that the preservative has vanished. Where has it gone?
Has it evaporated? No - it has soaked into the wood. So you top it up a
few times more, until it the wood has absorbed as much as it can. If
you repeat the treatment once in a while - especially when the post is
getting a bit old and the original preservative is becoming less
effective, I think you'll find that it will forestall the evil day when
the rot eventually begins to set in.

I think this would work if you have the patience:-) Telephone poles are
routinely dug around and then treated with some chemical preservative.

Look up Boron as a timber preservative.

Some years ago, I noticed what appeared to be large nails hammered into
timber electricity poles at ground level. The guy I asked said he
thought they were to extend the life of the pole.

--
Tim Lamb

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
news In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in
message ...
In message o.uk,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where
the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not
needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further
couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with
water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is
where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too
dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at
an angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your
favourite preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative
to soak in well), then fit a water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

It's amazing how many things are not used simply because no one has
thought of them - or if they have, hasn't bothered to try them.

Not with something as common as rotting wooden fence posts.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

This is intended to 'top up' the original pressure treatment (which,
of course, doesn't last for ever).

Sure, but if it doesn't soak into the wood when not
under pressure, there will be nothing to top up.

If unpressurised water can permeate the wood,

It's doing that with the outside of the post.

so can preservative.

Not necessarily with a hole inside the post.

Even if it doesn't help, it's unlikely to do any harm.

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

If you fill up the hole, and leave it for an hour or so, you will
probably find that the preservative has vanished.

Unlikely, and if it does, your scheme won't work because
you'd have to keep filling it up again every hour.

You're completely missing the point.

No.

As the wood becomes more saturated,

It won't with the preservative in a hole in the post.

the preservative takes progressively longer to disappear.

In practice it won't soak into the wood enough to matter.

That is why pressure treatment is used.

If it continues to disappear, the wood is very porous

The post is cracked.

- which is probably an indication that it won't last long without
continual TLC.

Pouring preservative into a hole in the post won't see it last
any longer than not doing that, because the preservative
won't get anywhere near where the water gets to on the
outside of the post below ground level.

Where has it gone? Has it evaporated? No - it has soaked into the wood.

If it's gone in an hour, it's much more likely it has run out a crack.

In which case, you should take care to choose better posts when you next
buy some.

Bit late for that once the fence is done.

So you top it up a few times more, until it the wood has absorbed as
much as it can.

Which is very unlikely to be anywhere near the
outside of the post which is where it will rot.

There's a reason posts are pressure treated.

But it doesn't last for ever. Even telegraph poles have a rot-by date.

Yes, but putting some more in a hole won't change that.

If you repeat the treatment once in a while - especially when the post
is getting a bit old and the original preservative is becoming less
effective, I think you'll find that it will forestall the evil day when
the rot eventually begins to set in.

It won't. That is why posts are pressure treated.

Which doesn't last for ever.

Yes, but putting some more in a hole won't change that.

However, I will leave you to bow to your superior experiences in such
matters.

I don't bow to anyone. I do understand
why posts and poles are pressure treated.

"Jacko" wrote in message
...

I do understand
why posts and poles are pressure treated.

AIUI the reason for pressure is to arrive at a greater depth of
preservative that would arise from just soaking and capillary
action alone.

It has nothing to do with the permeability of the wood otherwise,
as another pointed out, rainwaterwouldn't be a problem.

Therefore the suggestion by G3OHX is a good one.

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , Ian Jackson
writes
In message , Jacko
writes

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

If you fill up the hole, and leave it for an hour or so, you will
probably find that the preservative has vanished. Where has it gone?
Has it evaporated? No - it has soaked into the wood. So you top it up
a few times more, until it the wood has absorbed as much as it can. If
you repeat the treatment once in a while - especially when the post is
getting a bit old and the original preservative is becoming less
effective, I think you'll find that it will forestall the evil day
when the rot eventually begins to set in.

I think this would work if you have the patience:-)

It's not an alternative to pressure treatment. It's just something you
could try when the post's getting a bit old - something to be done on a
fine day in between doing other more important DIY jobs.

Telephone poles are routinely dug around and then treated with some
chemical preservative.

Not the old ones. I personally know poles that are at least 70 years
old, and as far as I know, have never been given any maintenance.

Look up Boron as a timber preservative.

Some years ago, I noticed what appeared to be large nails hammered into
timber electricity poles at ground level. The guy I asked said he
thought they were to extend the life of the pole.

I've never heard of that. Is it possible that something leaches out of
the nails if the wood is soaking up water (and therefore more likely to
rot)?
--
Ian

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 10:31:44 AM UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Ian Jackson
writes
In message , Jacko
writes

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

If you fill up the hole, and leave it for an hour or so, you will
probably find that the preservative has vanished. Where has it gone?
Has it evaporated? No - it has soaked into the wood. So you top it up a
few times more, until it the wood has absorbed as much as it can. If
you repeat the treatment once in a while - especially when the post is
getting a bit old and the original preservative is becoming less
effective, I think you'll find that it will forestall the evil day when
the rot eventually begins to set in.

I think this would work if you have the patience:-) Telephone poles are
routinely dug around and then treated with some chemical preservative.

Look up Boron as a timber preservative.

Some years ago, I noticed what appeared to be large nails hammered into
timber electricity poles at ground level. The guy I asked said he
thought they were to extend the life of the pole.

--
Tim Lamb

Round here telegraph poles are pressure treated.

About 20 years ago we put a fence around a vegetable garden to keep out the wabbits.

After shooting and eating same wabbits they ceased to be a problem so last year I had occasion to remove the fence. The only posts that hadn't rotted were the few we had used to finish off the job which were standard round fence posts as supplied by the forestry people. All the other posts were pressure treated and survived very well.

IME forget concrete. Dig a hole. Few stones in the bottom and back fill with soil well tamped down and more stones if you have them. Most fences are quite solid in a side to side manner as they gain support from their neighbours. Its the to and fro that causes the problems

In message , Ian Jackson
writes

Telephone poles are routinely dug around and then treated with some
chemical preservative.

Not the old ones. I personally know poles that are at least 70 years
old, and as far as I know, have never been given any maintenance.

Open Reach parked in my yard a few weeks back to inspect a pole.

As far as I could see this involved digging down 6" round the post,
inspecting for rot and then treating with some chemical. I didn't stand
over him:-)

Look up Boron as a timber preservative.

Some years ago, I noticed what appeared to be large nails hammered
into timber electricity poles at ground level. The guy I asked said he
thought they were to extend the life of the pole.

I've never heard of that. Is it possible that something leaches out of
the nails if the wood is soaking up water (and therefore more likely to
rot)?

--
Tim Lamb

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Jacko" wrote in message
...

I do understand
why posts and poles are pressure treated.

AIUI the reason for pressure is to arrive at a greater depth of
preservative that would arise from just soaking and capillary
action alone.

Yes.

It has nothing to do with the permeability of the wood otherwise,
as another pointed out, rainwaterwouldn't be a problem.

Therefore the suggestion by G3OHX is a good one.

No, the reason that pressure treatment is used is because
just leaving the wood in contact with the preservative
doesn’t see it soak in well enough. And that is even more
true when the preservative is in a hole in the post rather
than with the post put in a bath of preservative. Very
little of the preservative would get to the area of the
post which sees the water in contact with the post
where it rots because of that water.

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , Ian Jackson
writes
In message , Jacko
writes

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

If you fill up the hole, and leave it for an hour or so, you will
probably find that the preservative has vanished. Where has it gone? Has
it evaporated? No - it has soaked into the wood. So you top it up a few
times more, until it the wood has absorbed as much as it can. If you
repeat the treatment once in a while - especially when the post is
getting a bit old and the original preservative is becoming less
effective, I think you'll find that it will forestall the evil day when
the rot eventually begins to set in.

I think this would work if you have the patience:-)

It's not an alternative to pressure treatment. It's just something you
could try when the post's getting a bit old - something to be done on a
fine day in between doing other more important DIY jobs.

I just don't believe someone wouldn't have come up with that
approach in the centuries we have been doing that if it would work.

Telephone poles are routinely dug around and then treated with some
chemical preservative.

Not the old ones.

Yes, it has happened to mine more than once.

I personally know poles that are at least 70 years old, and as far as I
know, have never been given any maintenance.

I know mine has, more than once because I have seen it.

Look up Boron as a timber preservative.

Some years ago, I noticed what appeared to be large nails hammered into
timber electricity poles at ground level. The guy I asked said he thought
they were to extend the life of the pole.

I've never heard of that. Is it possible that something leaches out of the
nails if the wood is soaking up water (and therefore more likely to rot)?

Unlikely IMO, otherwise it would be routinely done with new poles.

In message , Jacko
writes




Unlikely IMO, otherwise it would be routinely done with new poles.

You seem to have a very narrow view about unusual DIY suggestions, ie if
what is being suggested was any good, we would all be doing it already -
and if it's not being done, that proves it doesn't work. Very strange.
--
Ian

"Jacko" wrote in message
...
"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Jacko" wrote in message
...
I do understand
why posts and poles are pressure treated.
AIUI the reason for pressure is to arrive at a greater depth of
preservative that would arise from just soaking and capillary
action alone.
Yes.
It has nothing to do with the permeability of the wood otherwise,
as another pointed out, rainwaterwouldn't be a problem.

Therefore the suggestion by G3OHX is a good one.

No, the reason that pressure treatment is used is because
just leaving the wood in contact with the preservative
doesn’t see it soak in well enough.

Which is what I said. Taking the relative times available for
commercial treatment (as qucikly as possible) and amateur
use (over time) then the approach of putting preservative
into a hole whence it can slowly seep makes sense.

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Jacko
writes




Unlikely IMO, otherwise it would be routinely done with new poles.

You seem to have a very narrow view about unusual DIY suggestions,

I have in fact suggested some myself, like with how to make sliding
doors sound like Star Wars doors if that is what you want to have.

ie if what is being suggested was any good, we would all be doing it
already -

And that is true with something we have been doing for centuries
now. If the approach you propose was useful, someone would have
tried it and have noticed it works better and said something about
that with something as common as fence posts and poles.

and if it's not being done, that proves it doesn't work. Very strange.

Nothing strange about it. The obvious exception is when technology
has changed, like with drilling a couple of small holes in failed double
glazing. I have never said that that isn't worth doing and it clearly does
work when it has been tried. And I have never said that the sort of
insulation that harry has done is pointless either, even tho it is a
relatively
recent approach, now viable because of how cheap decent in insulation
has become and how expensive heating houses has become lately.

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Jacko" wrote in message
...
"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Jacko" wrote in message
...
I do understand
why posts and poles are pressure treated.
AIUI the reason for pressure is to arrive at a greater depth of
preservative that would arise from just soaking and capillary
action alone.
Yes.
It has nothing to do with the permeability of the wood otherwise,
as another pointed out, rainwaterwouldn't be a problem.

Therefore the suggestion by G3OHX is a good one.

No, the reason that pressure treatment is used is because
just leaving the wood in contact with the preservative
doesn’t see it soak in well enough.

Which is what I said.

No it isn't on you claim that his suggestion is a good one.

Taking the relative times available for
commercial treatment (as qucikly as possible) and amateur
use (over time) then the approach of putting preservative
into a hole whence it can slowly seep makes sense.

No it doesn’t. It doesn’t matter how long you wait,
without pressure treatment the preservative doesn’t
soak into the wood and doesn’t get anywhere near
the outside of the post where it is in contact with
water. below the ground.

In article , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

snip
It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the depth
of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an angle of
45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite preservative
(several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in well), then fit a
water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

In my experience it works very well.
--
Chris Holford

"Jacko" wrote in message
...
"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Jacko" wrote in message
...
"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Jacko" wrote in message
...
I do understand
why posts and poles are pressure treated.
AIUI the reason for pressure is to arrive at a greater depth of
preservative that would arise from just soaking and capillary
action alone.
Yes.
It has nothing to do with the permeability of the wood otherwise,
as another pointed out, rainwaterwouldn't be a problem.

Therefore the suggestion by G3OHX is a good one.

No, the reason that pressure treatment is used is because
just leaving the wood in contact with the preservative
doesn’t see it soak in well enough.

Which is what I said.

No it isn't on you claim that his suggestion is a good one.

PLONK!

"Chris Holford" wrote in message
...
In article , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

snip
It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth
of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an angle
of
45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite preservative
(several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in well), then fit a
water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

In my experience it works very well.

But did you test it properly and only do that on half the
posts and check if the ones you did with the hole lasted
a lot longer than the ones you didn’t have the hole in ?

Bet you didn’t.

In article , Jacko
writes


"Chris Holford" wrote in message
...
In article , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

snip
It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth
of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an angle
of
45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite preservative
(several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in well), then fit a
water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

In my experience it works very well.

But did you test it properly and only do that on half the
posts and check if the ones you did with the hole lasted
a lot longer than the ones you didnt have the hole in ?

Bet you didnt.

I treated the posts on my fence with (old)'Cuprinol'in holes like this;
they are still there after 30 years. The fence on the other side of the
garden, which is owned by the neighbour and not given this treatment has
had to be replaced twice in the same time period.
--
Chris Holford

"Chris Holford" wrote in message
...
In article , Jacko
writes


"Chris Holford" wrote in message
...
In article , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk,
Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where
the
post enters the concrete,

snip
It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth
of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an angle
of
45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite preservative
(several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in well), then fit
a
water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

In my experience it works very well.

But did you test it properly and only do that on half the
posts and check if the ones you did with the hole lasted
a lot longer than the ones you didnt have the hole in ?

Bet you didnt.

I treated the posts on my fence with (old)'Cuprinol'in holes like this;
they are still there after 30 years.

But you dont know what would have happened if you had not done that.

The fence on the other side of the
garden, which is owned by the neighbour and not given this treatment has
had to be replaced twice in the same time period.

But you dont know that the posts were done the same way or with
the same wood or treatment before the posts went into the ground.

Plenty who have not done any preservative in holes in the posts
have had their fence last for more than 30 years, including me.

On 13/05/2015 17:01, gareth wrote:
Which is what I said. Taking the relative times available for
commercial treatment (as qucikly as possible) and amateur
use (over time) then the approach of putting preservative
into a hole whence it can slowly seep makes sense.

+1

For the sceptics - if you put preservative in a hole in the middle of
the post, where do you think it goes if it doesn't soak into the wood?

Sure, it won't do a good job of protecting the outside of the post - but
that will be the bit the 1 minute pressure treatment did. And if the
outside rots away leaving a solid core - well, that's better than the
outside and the inside rotting...

Andy

"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 13/05/2015 17:01, gareth wrote:
Which is what I said. Taking the relative times available for
commercial treatment (as qucikly as possible) and amateur
use (over time) then the approach of putting preservative
into a hole whence it can slowly seep makes sense.

+1

For the sceptics - if you put preservative in a hole in the middle of the
post, where do you think it goes if it doesn't soak into the wood?

Out the cracks in the wood and just evaporate out of the hole.

Sure, it won't do a good job of protecting the outside of the post

Which is the only part of the post that matters decay wise.

- but
that will be the bit the 1 minute pressure treatment did. And if the
outside rots away leaving a solid core

That won't happen either.

- well, that's better than the
outside and the inside rotting...

"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 13/05/2015 17:01, gareth wrote:
Which is what I said. Taking the relative times available for
commercial treatment (as qucikly as possible) and amateur
use (over time) then the approach of putting preservative
into a hole whence it can slowly seep makes sense.

+1

For the sceptics - if you put preservative in a hole in the middle of the
post, where do you think it goes if it doesn't soak into the wood?

Sure, it won't do a good job of protecting the outside of the post - but
that will be the bit the 1 minute pressure treatment did. And if the
outside rots away leaving a solid core - well, that's better than the
outside and the inside rotting...

Andy

Another thing that helps is to put plastic paint cans over the tops of
posts.
Covers the end grain where they often rot.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...
"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
o.uk...
For the sceptics - if you put preservative in a hole in the middle of the
post, where do you think it goes if it doesn't soak into the wood?
Sure, it won't do a good job of protecting the outside of the post - but
that will be the bit the 1 minute pressure treatment did. And if the
outside rots away leaving a solid core - well, that's better than the
outside and the inside rotting...
Another thing that helps is to put plastic paint cans over the tops of
posts.
Covers the end grain where they often rot.

A carved wooden finial looks better and rots in the place of the post.