As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

"gareth" wrote in message
...
As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?



I just accept that fence posts rot...it is the digging the wood out of the
metal post spikes that ****es me off.....

On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:39:54 AM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?



I just accept that fence posts rot...it is the digging the wood out of the
metal post spikes that ****es me off.....

I don't have that problem. The metal post spikes rust away long before the wood rots.

wrote in message
...
On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:39:54 AM UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"gareth" wrote in message
...
As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters
the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further
couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?



I just accept that fence posts rot...it is the digging the wood out of
the
metal post spikes that ****es me off.....

I don't have that problem. The metal post spikes rust away long before the
wood rots.

lucky you...

On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

Even pressure treated timber will rot eventually. What I do is either
use concrete spurs or posts or ensure than the post hole is well
drained.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

In message , Mark
writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

Even pressure treated timber will rot eventually. What I do is either
use concrete spurs or posts or ensure than the post hole is well
drained.

Dry soil is not necessarily good.

I am replacing some treated softwood post and rail installed about 20
years ago. All are suffering from *footrot*. The *dry* ones next to some
established conifers have about 18" of powdery rot with 6" only left
extractable from the bottom of the hole.

Where the soil is more moist, only the first 6" has fully rotted with
the rest sound enough to grip and extract.

None of my usual suppliers have stock on Creosote but I was able to get
some delivered from Creosote Sales Ltd. You need to be a professional
user:-(

--
Tim Lamb

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

Even pressure treated timber will rot eventually. What I do is either
use concrete spurs or posts or ensure than the post hole is well drained.

I use steel posts. Leaves timber posts for dead.

On 11/05/2015 11:11, gareth wrote:
As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

I would simply use oak, as I did for a pergola. Twenty years on, it
still shows no signs of rot.

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 12/05/2015 10:36, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.


I think the best you can do is pack the post with a free draining
material like gravel. A weak cement/gravel mix drains well and is easy
to knock off when the post needs replacing.
ISTR reading on here that this is the most cost effective strategy for
agricultural applications.

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an
angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite
preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in
well), then fit a water-tight bung.
--
Ian

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the depth
of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an angle of
45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite preservative
(several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in well), then fit a
water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at
an angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite
preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in
well), then fit a water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

It's amazing how many things are not used simply because no one has
thought of them - or if they have, hasn't bothered to try them.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

This is intended to 'top up' the original pressure treatment (which, of
course, doesn't last for ever). If unpressurised water can permeate the
wood, so can preservative. Even if it doesn't help, it's unlikely to do
any harm.
--
Ian

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
news
In message , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

Don't use concrete it just traps water in the timber. It's not needed
anyway provided there is enough post in the ground and the soil well
firmed in from the base of the hole up when the post is installed.

... and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?

It's not so much the water as the availabilty of water that is the
problem. Posts rot at or just above the ground level as that is where
the conditions are "just right" for the wood rot fungi/bacteria WHY
to thrive. In the ground is generally too wet, up in the air too dry.
Capilary action from the wet timber in the ground to the dry timber
in the air maintains a damp gradient and the just right conditions
along that gradient.

All I can see sealing doing is moving the position of the just right
conditions. Well treated, good quality, timber preferably pressure
treated with CCA (if that hasn't been banned...) or submerge the
posts in proper creosote for 24/48 hours or at the very least stand
the ends in creosote to at least a foot above where the ground level
will be again fro 24/48 hours. A good couple of liberaly brushed on
coats of creosote for the in air portion.

It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an
angle of 45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite
preservative (several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in
well), then fit a water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

It's amazing how many things are not used simply because no one has
thought of them - or if they have, hasn't bothered to try them.

Not with something as common as rotting wooden fence posts.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

This is intended to 'top up' the original pressure treatment (which, of
course, doesn't last for ever).

Sure, but if it doesn't soak into the wood when not
under pressure, there will be nothing to top up.

If unpressurised water can permeate the wood,

It's doing that with the outside of the post.

so can preservative.

Not necessarily with a hole inside the post.

Even if it doesn't help, it's unlikely to do any harm.

Sure, but it is unlikely to stop the wood rotting
where it is in contact with wet soil or concrete.

In article , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

snip
It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the depth
of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an angle of
45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite preservative
(several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in well), then fit a
water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

In my experience it works very well.
--
Chris Holford

"Chris Holford" wrote in message
...
In article , Jacko
writes


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 May 2015 11:11:59 +0100, gareth wrote:

As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not
above, then perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the
post enters the concrete,

snip
It might be worth considering drilling a hole (1/4" to 1/2") to the
depth
of the centre of the post - about 3" above the ground, and at an angle
of
45 degrees. Every so often, top it up with your favourite preservative
(several fills, and allow the preservative to soak in well), then fit a
water-tight bung.

You'd think that if that was a useful approach, someone would
have tried it and found it works better than not doing that and
the word would have got out about that by now.

Presumably it doesn't work because you need to
pressure treat wood for the preservative to work.

In my experience it works very well.

But did you test it properly and only do that on half the
posts and check if the ones you did with the hole lasted
a lot longer than the ones you didn’t have the hole in ?

Bet you didn’t.

On 11/05/2015 11:26, Jonno wrote:
gareth scribbled


As these things seem to rot at ground level and just below but not above,
then
perhaps the remedy is to seal with bath sealant where the post enters the
concrete, and then smear further sealant up the post for a further couple
of inches above ground level to prevent extended contact with water?


Or wrap the lower part of the post in plastic, which won't rot for 200
years. Course it'll also trap moisture in the wood too.

That is the problem, if the wood has to be below ground the only answer
is good pressure treatment and excellent drainage.