http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

--
*The modem is the message *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:36:55 +0100, dave wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban DIY.
Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

Umm, if both the EU and the US _do_ adopt something similar, what do you
think the chances of the car manufacturers making the official diagnostic
kit available to Joe Average in a non-EU-member UK are...?

In article ,
dave wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:08:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban
DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

If UKIP got power, the problem would go away. Few would be able to afford
cars anymore. Apart from UKIP officials, of course.

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:36:55 +0100, dave wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban DIY.
Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

Umm, if both the EU and the US _do_ adopt something similar, what do you
think the chances of the car manufacturers making the official diagnostic
kit available to Joe Average in a non-EU-member UK are...?

As the UK are world leaders in engine management software, I don't
think we'll have any problems in doing it ourselves. My experience of
manufacturers diagnostic software is that it is pretty useless a lot of
the time, small loss.

In message , dave
writes
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:08:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban
DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

It's in the US and relates to the application of the DCMA act.

--
Chris French

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-05-02, Chris French wrote:
In message , dave
writes
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:08:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban
DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

It's in the US and relates to the application of the DCMA act.

And you think European car makers aren't slavering at the thought of
forcing everyone to have all their maintenance done at main dealers?

the last time they did that the EU told them they weren't going to get it

why should it be different this time?

tim

In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-05-02, Chris French wrote:
In message , dave
writes
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:08:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban
DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

It's in the US and relates to the application of the DCMA act.

And you think European car makers aren't slavering at the thought of
forcing everyone to have all their maintenance done at main dealers?


I'm sure they would. but the DMCA has been used in the US in ways that
don't apply outside of the US,

I suspect they wouldn't be successful in getting the required
legislation passed in the UK/EU
--
Chris French

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2015-05-02, Chris French wrote:
In message , dave
writes
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:08:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban
DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

It's in the US and relates to the application of the DCMA act.

And you think European car makers aren't slavering at the thought of
forcing everyone to have all their maintenance done at main dealers?


Quite - remember when they tried to stop the manufacture of pattern parts?

--
*The modem is the message *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/05/2015 12:51, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:36:55 +0100, dave wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban DIY.
Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

Umm, if both the EU and the US _do_ adopt something similar, what do you
think the chances of the car manufacturers making the official diagnostic
kit available to Joe Average in a non-EU-member UK are...?


I read it and thought it was referring to DIY modification of software
and nothing to do with repairs at all.

In article om,
Dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2015 12:51, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:36:55 +0100, dave wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban
DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

Umm, if both the EU and the US _do_ adopt something similar, what do
you think the chances of the car manufacturers making the official
diagnostic kit available to Joe Average in a non-EU-member UK are...?


I read it and thought it was referring to DIY modification of software
and nothing to do with repairs at all.

That is part of it. But stopping others having access to fault codes etc
could make even routine servicing impossible except by a main dealer.

It's just the usual thing of trying to create a monopoly under the guise
of safety. Think Corgi.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Only for those that change the code.

Nothing in there has anything to do with REPAIRING
cars, regardless of what some fool journo claims.

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 02/05/2015 12:51, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:36:55 +0100, dave wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban DIY.
Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

Umm, if both the EU and the US _do_ adopt something similar, what do you
think the chances of the car manufacturers making the official diagnostic
kit available to Joe Average in a non-EU-member UK are...?


I read it and thought it was referring to DIY modification of software and
nothing to do with repairs at all.

Correct, the stupid journo ****ed up completely.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article om,
Dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2015 12:51, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:36:55 +0100, dave wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban
DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

Umm, if both the EU and the US _do_ adopt something similar, what do
you think the chances of the car manufacturers making the official
diagnostic kit available to Joe Average in a non-EU-member UK are...?


I read it and thought it was referring to DIY modification of software
and nothing to do with repairs at all.

That is part of it. But stopping others having access to fault codes etc

DCMA doesn’t do that.

could make even routine servicing impossible except by a main dealer.

BULL****.

It's just the usual thing of trying to create a monopoly under the guise
of safety.

Taint gunna happen with this, you watch.

Think Corgi.

On 02/05/2015 20:53, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Only for those that change the code.

Nothing in there has anything to do with REPAIRING
cars, regardless of what some fool journo claims.

One small step .............

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Only for those that change the code.

Nothing in there has anything to do with REPAIRING
cars, regardless of what some fool journo claims.

One small step .............

Not even possible with the copyright law that is at issue.

Its just another journalist's terminal stupidity/hype.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Load of ********.

They should be more worried about the Chinese copying their stuff.

The real reason is to put independennt car reparers out of work so the
dealers/official mechanics can rob us all.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:08:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything, and ban
DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

As already happens in poncy Australia.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Load of ********.

They should be more worried about the Chinese copying their stuff.

The real reason is to put independennt car reparers out of work so the
dealers/official mechanics can rob us all.

Not even possible that way, you watch.

harryagain wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
dave wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Yes - then repairs to onea home, then repairs to anything,
and ban DIY. Vote Ukip - get some sanity back.

As already happens in poncy Australia.

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

There is no ban on DIY here and you are welcome
to repair almost anything you like too.

On 03/05/2015 07:03, harryagain wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Load of ********.

They should be more worried about the Chinese copying their stuff.

The real reason is to put independennt car reparers out of work so the
dealers/official mechanics can rob us all.


*repairers* ;-)

"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/2015 07:03, harryagain wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Load of ********.

They should be more worried about the Chinese copying their stuff.

The real reason is to put independennt car reparers out of work so the
dealers/official mechanics can rob us all.


*repairers* ;-)
Yep. Finger trouble.

On Sun, 3 May 2015 07:03:22 +0100, harryagain wrote:


http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Load of ********.

It's in the US so to an extent yes, but stuff in the US has a habit
of getting across the pond.

They should be more worried about the Chinese copying their stuff.

Ah but that's China, so much trade is done with China there's a
certain amount of "blind eye"...

The real reason is to put independennt car reparers out of work so the
dealers/official mechanics can rob us all.

Nail, hammer, head. Look at the battle there was to enable, even
manufacturer certified, independent garages to service cars and
retain the validity of the warranty.

Of course some makers now include n years/x thousand miles free
servicing, parts and labour in the purchase deal. All the owner has
to is pay for as "extras" to running the vehicle is fuel, insurance
and road tax (first year of either/both might be thrown in...).

When this comes to an end, the owner won't want to pay for
servicing/maintenance etc, even if those costs are less overall than
the previous deal costs. So they will trade it in and get another,
the manufacturers want this as it's another sale. The harder they can
make the servicing/maintenance the better as far as they are
concerned. The fact that cars with another 150,000 miles/10 years of
life left in them are going to the crusher doesn't bother the
manufactures, they just want to sell cars.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 3 May 2015 07:03:22 +0100, harryagain wrote:


http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Could make life interesting. ;-)

Load of ********.

It's in the US so to an extent yes, but stuff in
the US has a habit of getting across the pond.

Not the DCMA stuff.

They should be more worried about the Chinese copying their stuff.

Ah but that's China, so much trade is done with
China there's a certain amount of "blind eye"...

The real reason is to put independennt car reparers out of work so the
dealers/official mechanics can rob us all.

Nail, hammer, head. Look at the battle there was to enable, even
manufacturer certified, independent garages to service cars and
retain the validity of the warranty.

Of course some makers now include n years/x thousand miles free
servicing, parts and labour in the purchase deal. All the owner has
to is pay for as "extras" to running the vehicle is fuel, insurance
and road tax (first year of either/both might be thrown in...).

When this comes to an end, the owner won't want to pay for
servicing/maintenance etc, even if those costs are less overall than
the previous deal costs. So they will trade it in and get another,
the manufacturers want this as it's another sale. The harder they can
make the servicing/maintenance the better as far as they are concerned.

And yet cars last much longer than they used to in say the 50s.

The fact that cars with another 150,000 miles/10 years of
life left in them are going to the crusher doesn't bother the
manufactures, they just want to sell cars.

Doesn't matter what they want, cars last much longer anyway.

On Sun, 3 May 2015 21:03:09 +1000, Simon Brown wrote:

When this comes to an end, the owner won't want to pay for
servicing/maintenance etc, even if those costs are less overall
than
the previous deal costs. So they will trade it in and get another,
the manufacturers want this as it's another sale. The harder they
can
make the servicing/maintenance the better as far as they are
concerned.

And yet cars last much longer than they used to in say the 50s.

They do indeed, a 5 year old car right up to the 70's maybe 80's
stood a fair chance of starting to turn into lace curtain.

The fact that cars with another 150,000 miles/10 years of life
left in
them are going to the crusher doesn't bother the manufactures,
they
just want to sell cars.

Doesn't matter what they want, cars last much longer anyway.

They may last much longer if they are serviced/maintained than they
did 30/40 years ago. But cars were far easier to service and maintain
back then being pure mechanical devices with no electronics or
computers.

These days, you can change the fluids and filters, brakes, tyres etc
but that's about all. If it ain't "running right" you're are stuffed
without the abilty to plugin a diagnostic device to get the fault
codes or watch what it's up to whilst running. The basic codes are
standard but most vehicles have a number of propritary codes that
need to be interpreted, you either have to do that manually or pay
for an "update" to your disgnostic device.

It's now relatively expensive and complicated to be able to diagnose
even a simple engine or even transmission faults. That's assuming the
owners have even an inkling about how a car works let alone any
desire to service/maintain it themselves. So we get back to what I
said:

"When this [the all in purchase/servicing deal] comes to an end, the
owner won't want to pay for servicing/maintenance etc, even if those
costs are less overall than the previous deal costs. So they will
trade it in and get another, ...".

The makers even tie down the very expensive diagnostic machines that
garages have to have to work on the cars. The owner of the
independant garage I use was almost up a gum tree the last time I
went in as the local(*) internet was down so the diagnostic machine
couldn't "phone home" to get authorised, something it has to do every
day.

(*) "Local" as in from west Newcastle to Haydon Bridge and south to
Alston, only about 400 sq miles.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 3 May 2015 21:03:09 +1000, Simon Brown wrote:

When this comes to an end, the owner won't want to pay for
servicing/maintenance etc, even if those costs are less overall
than
the previous deal costs. So they will trade it in and get another,
the manufacturers want this as it's another sale. The harder they
can
make the servicing/maintenance the better as far as they are
concerned.

And yet cars last much longer than they used to in say the 50s.

They do indeed, a 5 year old car right up to the 70's maybe 80's
stood a fair chance of starting to turn into lace curtain.

My Golf bought in 73 lasted fine for 40 years and only had to be
replaced because I was stupid enough to not do anything about
the known leaking windscreen until it eventually rusted the floor.

The fact that cars with another 150,000 miles/10 years of life
left in
them are going to the crusher doesn't bother the manufactures,
they
just want to sell cars.

Doesn't matter what they want, cars last much longer anyway.

They may last much longer if they are serviced/maintained than they
did 30/40 years ago.

They do even if you don't do that. That Golf only ever
had the oil changed just once, and the engine is still fine.

But cars were far easier to service and maintain back then

That is just plain wrong. The Getz I replaced the Golf with
is in fact MUCH easier to maintain because it requires very little
maintenance at all, no greasing, no ignition tweaking at all.

The only maintenance it has had in 10 years is just one oil
change and a new battery and a couple of sets of tires.

being pure mechanical devices with no electronics or computers.

It's the computer that means that you don't need to do
a damned thing maintenance wise to the ignition anymore.

These days, you can change the fluids and
filters, brakes, tyres etc but that's about all.

And that is all you need to do.

If it ain't "running right" you're are stuffed without the abilty
to plugin a diagnostic device to get the fault codes

And that cost me quite literally $5 to buy one.

or watch what it's up to whilst running. The basic codes are
standard but most vehicles have a number of propritary codes
that need to be interpreted, you either have to do that manually
or pay for an "update" to your disgnostic device.

And that cost me quite literally $5.

It's now relatively expensive and complicated to be able to
diagnose even a simple engine or even transmission faults.

Nope, just $5.

That's assuming the owners have even an inkling about how a
car works let alone any desire to service/maintain it themselves.

Don't need to know how it works to do all the maintenance it needs now.

So we get back to what I said:

"When this [the all in purchase/servicing deal] comes to an end,

Mine did in the first year when the free first service happened.

the owner won't want to pay for servicing/maintenance etc,
even if those costs are less overall than the previous deal costs.

I did. And that cost very little to change the filter and oil.

So they will trade it in and get another, ...".

I didn't when it developed a rather unusual battery fault.

I just replaced the battery, which I would
have had to do in that 10 years anyway.

The makers even tie down the very expensive diagnostic
machines that garages have to have to work on the cars.

I bought one for $5.

The owner of the independant garage I use was almost up
a gum tree the last time I went in as the local(*) internet was
down so the diagnostic machine couldn't "phone home" to
get authorised, something it has to do every day.

Mine doesn't.

(*) "Local" as in from west Newcastle to Haydon Bridge
and south to Alston, only about 400 sq miles.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
It's now relatively expensive and complicated to be able to diagnose
even a simple engine or even transmission faults. That's assuming the
owners have even an inkling about how a car works let alone any
desire to service/maintain it themselves. So we get back to what I
said:

You can buy code readers for most cars these days. Usually for less than
the cost of an oil service at a dealer.

The fact is like many things these days, most can't be bothered to learn
how a car works. Far more fun as a kid playing computer games.

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 05 May 2015 13:56:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
It's now relatively expensive and complicated to be able to diagnose
even a simple engine or even transmission faults. That's assuming the
owners have even an inkling about how a car works let alone any
desire to service/maintain it themselves. So we get back to what I
said:

You can buy code readers for most cars these days. Usually for less than
the cost of an oil service at a dealer.

The fact is like many things these days, most can't be bothered to learn
how a car works. Far more fun as a kid playing computer games.

--
*Income tax service - We ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 05 May 2015 13:56:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's now relatively expensive and complicated to be able to
diagnose
even a simple engine or even transmission faults. That's assuming
the
owners have even an inkling about how a car works let alone any
desire to service/maintain it themselves.

You can buy code readers for most cars these days. Usually for less than
the cost of an oil service at a dealer.

Does a "code reader" enable to you to control various aspects of the
vehical. Say inflate/deflate the nearside rear air spring whilst
monitoring the output of the ride height sensors in real time?

Or does it just give the stored fault codes that it might translate
into brief explanatory text.

The fact is like many things these days, most can't be bothered to learn
how a car works.

Which is why when the all-in purchase package comes to an end they
trade it in. They can't service it themselves and don't want those,
percieved to be, huge and unpredictable servive/repair bills. Even if
those bills come to £1000/year (unlikely) the fact they were paying
£150/month (£1800/year) doesn't matter it's a fixed regular amount
that is easy to budget for. And of course, far more importantly, be
seen with a spanking new car with half an extra bell and a useless
whistle.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 13:56:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's now relatively expensive and complicated to be able to
diagnose
even a simple engine or even transmission faults. That's assuming
the
owners have even an inkling about how a car works let alone any
desire to service/maintain it themselves.

You can buy code readers for most cars these days. Usually for less
than the cost of an oil service at a dealer.

Does a "code reader" enable to you to control various aspects of the
vehical. Say inflate/deflate the nearside rear air spring whilst
monitoring the output of the ride height sensors in real time?

I dunno. There are loads on the market - some universal, some model
specific. There's likely a forum for your particular vehicle which could
tell you what's available.

Or does it just give the stored fault codes that it might translate into
brief explanatory text.

Certainly the fault codes.

The fact is like many things these days, most can't be bothered to
learn how a car works.

Which is why when the all-in purchase package comes to an end they
trade it in. They can't service it themselves and don't want those,
percieved to be, huge and unpredictable servive/repair bills. Even if
those bills come to £1000/year (unlikely) the fact they were paying
£150/month (£1800/year) doesn't matter it's a fixed regular amount
that is easy to budget for. And of course, far more importantly, be
seen with a spanking new car with half an extra bell and a useless
whistle.

Yes. I keep seeing those ads for an expensive car at so much a month and
think there must be a catch. It barely seems to cover depreciation.

My oldish BMW is pretty complex. Canbus galore, and things like memory
electric seats. Yet only common or garden things that a Morris Minor had
have actually failed. And it's 18 years old.

--
*Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

You can buy code readers for most cars these days. Usually for less than
the cost of an oil service at a dealer.

The fact is like many things these days, most can't be bothered to learn
how a car works. Far more fun as a kid playing computer games.

My £17 OBD2 scanner saved me a fortune recently........crankshaft sensor and
MAF failure on the 17 year old merc and the heated o2 sensor on the wagon R
....parts are cheap........

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
It's now relatively expensive and complicated to be able to diagnose
even a simple engine or even transmission faults. That's assuming the
owners have even an inkling about how a car works let alone any
desire to service/maintain it themselves. So we get back to what I
said:

You can buy code readers for most cars these days. Usually for less than
the cost of an oil service at a dealer.

The fact is like many things these days, most can't be bothered to learn
how a car works. Far more fun as a kid playing computer games.

*Income tax service - We€˜ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ironic coming from a socialist
--
bert