In article ,
Mark Carver writes:
On 14/02/2015 17:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the regs?

What's the logic behind that directive ?

It was a Corgi rule. It's not part of the Gas Regs.
I don't know if it's something Gassafe also insist on.

It was because installers/maintainers might be temped to isolate
the appliance by using the switch, but breaking the live only is
not isolating the appliance.

You might argue a DP switch would be OK, but this cannot be easily
confirmed by inspecting the socket, and gas installers are not
expected to know such details.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 16/02/2015 09:15, Mike Barnes wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

I had some friends who asked me to help because their video recorder
wouldn't record. They turned it off every night at the wall, so it never
remememeber the clock time.

I'm not at all familiar with the world of video recorders but it doesn't
seem beyond the wit of man to design one that could keep time when
switched off.


They predate low power logic and even quartz crystal timing.
These days they would probably set the time by themselves.

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
You sound like my father.

I'm not your father. At least I don't think so.

Don't think you are. He's been dead for 40 odd years.

The TV had to be switched off on the set first,
then the socket, and finally unplugged.

Are you focussing on the fact that all three had to be done, or that
they had to be done in that particular order?

Both.

FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

Is it an old set? Most recent ones don't have a true on/off switch.

--
*Forget about World Peace...Visualize using your turn signal.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

I had some friends who asked me to help because their video recorder
wouldn't record. They turned it off every night at the wall, so it
never remememeber the clock time.

I'm not at all familiar with the world of video recorders but it doesn't
seem beyond the wit of man to design one that could keep time when
switched off.

Perhaps one of the most handy features is the ability to record a
programme when you're out. It would be a clever machine which can do that
when unplugged.

--
*A nest isn't empty until all their stuff is out of the attic

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:
Are you focussing on the fact that all three had to be done, or that
they had to be done in that particular order?

There is, in fact, a very sound reason for switching the TV set off
first.

Many sets used the 'off' switch action to force the brightness to
maximum, thus discharging the EHT reservoir rapidly before the scan
collapsed completely.

He insisted the same was done with the radio too...

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

Is it an old set? Most recent ones don't have a true on/off switch.

There might be some residual power draw I suppose. But when it's
switched off, it's cold and dark, and nothing works.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 10:46:26 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 14/02/2015 23:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2015 17:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

There is no regulatory requirement that I am aware of, although it
makes sense not to use switched sockets for critical appliances
(boiler,
freezer etc) where one would not like them to be accidentally switched
off.

Unfortunately plenty of freezers have an on/off button on the front top
edge that can easily be switched off by someone leaning on the unit!

The "too warm" alarm doesn't sound when the power is off either.

I just have a cover over the socket marked 'Freezer'.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £30a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 16/02/2015 13:10, Dennis@home wrote:
On 16/02/2015 09:15, Mike Barnes wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

I had some friends who asked me to help because their video recorder
wouldn't record. They turned it off every night at the wall, so it
never
remememeber the clock time.

I'm not at all familiar with the world of video recorders but it doesn't
seem beyond the wit of man to design one that could keep time when
switched off.


They predate low power logic and even quartz crystal timing.
These days they would probably set the time by themselves.

Rubbish. 32kHz crystal watches date back to the same era as domestic VHS
video recorders but the early ones were a bit clunky. The LED display
hammered the battery in things like the Sinclair black watch 1975 but
Seiko had working LCD display watches in the same time frame.

And from about 1980 there were standard CMOS watchdog timers that would
run for ages on a 3v coin cell (though not fitted in PCs by default). By
1990 there were pin compatible cheap clones of the Motorola RTC.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

John Rumm put finger to keyboard:

On 14/02/2015 17:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

There is no regulatory requirement that I am aware of, although it makes
sense not to use switched sockets for critical appliances (boiler,
freezer etc) where one would not like them to be accidentally switched
off.

The switch for my kitchen under-cupboard strip lights on one side is next
to the switch for the freezer. A couple of times people have gone to turn
off the lights, tried the freezer switch, seen it hasn't worked and then
tried the correct switch. But do they think "I wonder what I just turned
off by mistake?" Of course not - they leave the freezer switched off!

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:08:21 +0000, Scion wrote:

John Rumm put finger to keyboard:

On 14/02/2015 17:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make. What
governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

There is no regulatory requirement that I am aware of, although it
makes sense not to use switched sockets for critical appliances
(boiler, freezer etc) where one would not like them to be accidentally
switched off.

The switch for my kitchen under-cupboard strip lights on one side is
next to the switch for the freezer. A couple of times people have gone
to turn off the lights, tried the freezer switch, seen it hasn't worked
and then tried the correct switch. But do they think "I wonder what I
just turned off by mistake?" Of course not - they leave the freezer
switched off!

Ours is just round a corner next to a light switch. Hence the cover.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £30a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 16/02/2015 14:37, Martin Brown wrote:
On 16/02/2015 13:10, Dennis@home wrote:
On 16/02/2015 09:15, Mike Barnes wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

I had some friends who asked me to help because their video recorder
wouldn't record. They turned it off every night at the wall, so it
never
remememeber the clock time.

I'm not at all familiar with the world of video recorders but it doesn't
seem beyond the wit of man to design one that could keep time when
switched off.


They predate low power logic and even quartz crystal timing.
These days they would probably set the time by themselves.

Rubbish. 32kHz crystal watches date back to the same era as domestic VHS
video recorders but the early ones were a bit clunky. The LED display
hammered the battery in things like the Sinclair black watch 1975 but
Seiko had working LCD display watches in the same time frame.

That doesn't mean they were available at a sensible price to use in
video recorders so many used mains derived clocks.


And from about 1980 there were standard CMOS watchdog timers that would
run for ages on a 3v coin cell (though not fitted in PCs by default). By
1990 there were pin compatible cheap clones of the Motorola RTC.


See above.

Hell the first video recorders didn't even have IR remotes.

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/15 17:24, ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


The choice of the person buying the sockets and nothing else.


Thank you, gentlemen: there obviously wasn't any great subtlety of rules
or practice which had escaped me: I'll continue to buy SP sockets when
available, but stick to DP flex outlets.


You cannot buy a SP switched fused connection unit (if that is what you are
referring to). They do not exist.

--
Adam

ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/15 17:24, ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


The choice of the person buying the sockets and nothing else.


Thank you, gentlemen: there obviously wasn't any great subtlety of
rules or practice which had escaped me: I'll continue to buy SP
sockets when available, but stick to DP flex outlets.


You cannot buy a SP switched fused connection unit (if that is what you
are referring to). They do not exist.


I'm confused as well, Screwfix sell a SP fused spur unit and a SP 13A
socket outlet. What are we discussing?

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

I had some friends who asked me to help because their video recorder
wouldn't record. They turned it off every night at the wall, so it
never remememeber the clock time.

I'm not at all familiar with the world of video recorders but it doesn't
seem beyond the wit of man to design one that could keep time when
switched off.

most did, it was only those made by Phillips didn't. With mine, I was able
to add an internal battery.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In message , Capitol
writes
ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/15 17:24, ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


The choice of the person buying the sockets and nothing else.


Thank you, gentlemen: there obviously wasn't any great subtlety of
rules or practice which had escaped me: I'll continue to buy SP
sockets when available, but stick to DP flex outlets.


You cannot buy a SP switched fused connection unit (if that is what you
are referring to). They do not exist.


I'm confused as well, Screwfix sell a SP fused spur unit and a
SP 13A socket outlet. What are we discussing?

both - though the thread started out about SP and DP switched sockets.

Are you sure that Screfix sell SP FCU's - they a have a variety some
labelled DP, some not, but I can't see any that say single pole.

And I've never come across one (well not of recent vintage anyway)
--
Chris French

In article . com,
Dennis@home wrote:
Hell the first video recorders didn't even have IR remotes.

They were valve too.

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Chris French wrote:
Are you sure that Screfix sell SP FCU's - they a have a variety some
labelled DP, some not, but I can't see any that say single pole.

And I've never come across one (well not of recent vintage anyway)

They certainly existed once. But I too thought they were all DP now.

--
*Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Dennis@home wrote

Hell the first video recorders didn't even have IR remotes.

They were valve too.

Not the domestic ones being discussed.

In message , Rod Speed
writes
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Dennis@home wrote

Hell the first video recorders didn't even have IR remotes.

They were valve too.

Not the domestic ones being discussed.

My first recorder, although not valve certainly didn't come with a
remote. I could only dream of having a remote :-) It was a Sony
CV-2000, or similar, with 1.2" reels of tape. They don't make 'em like
that any more.



--
Bill

Chris French wrote:
In message , Capitol
writes
ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/15 17:24, ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


The choice of the person buying the sockets and nothing else.


Thank you, gentlemen: there obviously wasn't any great subtlety of
rules or practice which had escaped me: I'll continue to buy SP
sockets when available, but stick to DP flex outlets.


You cannot buy a SP switched fused connection unit (if that is what you
are referring to). They do not exist.


I'm confused as well, Screwfix sell a SP fused spur unit and a SP 13A
socket outlet. What are we discussing?

both - though the thread started out about SP and DP switched sockets.

Are you sure that Screfix sell SP FCU's - they a have a variety some
labelled DP, some not, but I can't see any that say single pole.

And I've never come across one (well not of recent vintage anyway)

I agree about Screwfix, the product is unspecified. The two SFCU units
I fitted last year possibly came from Toolstation and were SP.

Capitol wrote:
Chris French wrote:
In message , Capitol
writes
ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/15 17:24, ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


The choice of the person buying the sockets and nothing else.


Thank you, gentlemen: there obviously wasn't any great subtlety of
rules or practice which had escaped me: I'll continue to buy SP
sockets when available, but stick to DP flex outlets.


You cannot buy a SP switched fused connection unit (if that is what you
are referring to). They do not exist.


I'm confused as well, Screwfix sell a SP fused spur unit and a SP 13A
socket outlet. What are we discussing?

both - though the thread started out about SP and DP switched sockets.

Are you sure that Screfix sell SP FCU's - they a have a variety some
labelled DP, some not, but I can't see any that say single pole.

And I've never come across one (well not of recent vintage anyway)

I agree about Screwfix, the product is unspecified. The two SFCU units I
fitted last year possibly came from Toolstation and were SP.

Just rechecked, 2 were old stock single pole and 2 new. The new ones
were 2 pole.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Dennis@home wrote

Hell the first video recorders didn't even have IR remotes.

They were valve too.

Not the domestic ones being discussed.

That would be a VCR, then.

--
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of ****.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

I had some friends who asked me to help because their video recorder
wouldn't record. They turned it off every night at the wall, so it
never remememeber the clock time.

I'm not at all familiar with the world of video recorders but it
doesn't seem beyond the wit of man to design one that could keep time
when switched off.

most did, it was only those made by Phillips didn't. With mine, I was
able to add an internal battery.

First domestic VCR I saw had a mechanical timer - the type with drums for
the digits and a synchronous motor driving it.

--
*We never really grow*up, we only learn how to act in public.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
Capitol wrote:


I'm confused as well, Screwfix sell a SP fused spur unit and a SP 13A
socket outlet. What are we discussing?

both - though the thread started out about SP and DP switched sockets.

Are you sure that Screfix sell SP FCU's - they a have a variety some
labelled DP, some not, but I can't see any that say single pole.

And I've never come across one (well not of recent vintage anyway)

I agree about Screwfix, the product is unspecified. The two SFCU units I
fitted last year possibly came from Toolstation and were SP.

Just rechecked, 2 were old stock single pole and 2 new. The new ones were
2 pole.


This was recently covered in another thread. BS 1363 - 1995 pt 4 says that
SFCUs must be double pole switched


--
Adam

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Dennis@home wrote

Hell the first video recorders didn't even have IR remotes.

They were valve too.

Not the domestic ones being discussed.

That would be a VCR, then.

Duh.

On 14/02/2015 17:13, Caecilius wrote:
I'd prefer DP, as it means the appliance can't trip the RCD when the
switch is off.

With SP, an N to E short in the appliance could still cause a trip
even if the socket is switched off.

I've never seen it, but I feel a little niggle that one day I'll meet a
DP switch where the live side fails connected.

The gadget will of course turn off, as it's lost its neutral - but most
of the guts of the appliance will be at mains

Andy

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 21:35:52 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 14/02/2015 17:13, Caecilius wrote:
I'd prefer DP, as it means the appliance can't trip the RCD when the
switch is off.

With SP, an N to E short in the appliance could still cause a trip
even if the socket is switched off.

I've never seen it, but I feel a little niggle that one day I'll meet a
DP switch where the live side fails connected.

The gadget will of course turn off, as it's lost its neutral - but most
of the guts of the appliance will be at mains


I have to say that I agree with you on this. I can't quite see the
'benefit' of DP over SP switching. I personally prefer to only switch
the live (the neutral, after all is still tied to earth at the sub
station and any wiring faults making the neutral live are going to
have far more serious consequences in the rest of the wiring anyway.

At least with just a single pole switch, there's less temptation to
save costs and reduce the quality of a two pole switch where
previously a single pole switch had been deemed sufficient for the job
and worthy of good quality manufacture on account there is no other
switch to disguise the fact of failure.
--
J B Good