I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?

__

Kevin

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?

I think we are just in a transition period.
Before long they'll all be double pole switched.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?

I think we are just in a transition period.
Before long they'll all be double pole switched.

Your clock is FIVE HOURS out, surely even you can fix that ?

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 16:38:03 +0000, Kevin
wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?

I'd prefer DP, as it means the appliance can't trip the RCD when the
switch is off.

With SP, an N to E short in the appliance could still cause a trip
even if the socket is switched off.

On 14/02/15 17:13, Caecilius wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 16:38:03 +0000, Kevin
wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?

I'd prefer DP, as it means the appliance can't trip the RCD when the
switch is off.

With SP, an N to E short in the appliance could still cause a trip
even if the socket is switched off.


Oh sorry - I read that as Single Gang, Double Gang.

Makes not much difference most of the time...

True, but surely this would aid in finding a fault?
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 16:38:03 +0000, Kevin
wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?

I'd prefer DP, as it means the appliance can't trip the RCD when the
switch is off.

With SP, an N to E short in the appliance could still cause a trip
even if the socket is switched off.

On 14/02/2015 17:13, Caecilius wrote:
I'd prefer DP, as it means the appliance can't trip the RCD when the
switch is off.

With SP, an N to E short in the appliance could still cause a trip
even if the socket is switched off.

I've never seen it, but I feel a little niggle that one day I'll meet a
DP switch where the live side fails connected.

The gadget will of course turn off, as it's lost its neutral - but most
of the guts of the appliance will be at mains

Andy

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 21:35:52 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 14/02/2015 17:13, Caecilius wrote:
I'd prefer DP, as it means the appliance can't trip the RCD when the
switch is off.

With SP, an N to E short in the appliance could still cause a trip
even if the socket is switched off.

I've never seen it, but I feel a little niggle that one day I'll meet a
DP switch where the live side fails connected.

The gadget will of course turn off, as it's lost its neutral - but most
of the guts of the appliance will be at mains


I have to say that I agree with you on this. I can't quite see the
'benefit' of DP over SP switching. I personally prefer to only switch
the live (the neutral, after all is still tied to earth at the sub
station and any wiring faults making the neutral live are going to
have far more serious consequences in the rest of the wiring anyway.

At least with just a single pole switch, there's less temptation to
save costs and reduce the quality of a two pole switch where
previously a single pole switch had been deemed sufficient for the job
and worthy of good quality manufacture on account there is no other
switch to disguise the fact of failure.
--
J B Good

On 14/02/15 16:38, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


Use what fits the box - unless you are putting in a new backbox, then I
prefer doubles. But it depends on your expected use.

On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

Owain

In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the regs?

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 14/02/2015 17:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the regs?

What's the logic behind that directive ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Mark Carver
wrote:
On 14/02/2015 17:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make. What
governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the
regs?

What's the logic behind that directive ?

my logic was that removing power to the system, which includes the pump,
could result in overheating of the boiler and a consequent shut down, so
that when power was restored the boiler wouldn't restart. This could, if I
wasn't at home, result in expensive call out charges.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 14/02/2015 18:20, charles wrote:
In article , Mark Carver
wrote:
On 14/02/2015 17:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make. What
governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the
regs?

What's the logic behind that directive ?

my logic was that removing power to the system, which includes the pump,
could result in overheating of the boiler and a consequent shut down, so
that when power was restored the boiler wouldn't restart. This could, if I
wasn't at home, result in expensive call out charges.

Does you boiler carry on heating with the power removed ? It's no worse
(or better) than suffering a power cut surely ?

I can understand the need to isolate fully for maintaince etc. Mine is
fed by a DP FCU.



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On 14/02/2015 18:20, charles wrote:


my logic was that removing power to the system, which includes the pump,
could result in overheating of the boiler and a consequent shut down, so
that when power was restored the boiler wouldn't restart. This could, if I
wasn't at home, result in expensive call out charges.


You'd better make sure that you never have a power cut then!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 14/02/15 18:20, charles wrote:
In article , Mark Carver
wrote:
On 14/02/2015 17:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make. What
governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the
regs?

What's the logic behind that directive ?

my logic was that removing power to the system, which includes the pump,
could result in overheating of the boiler and a consequent shut down, so
that when power was restored the boiler wouldn't restart. This could, if I
wasn't at home, result in expensive call out charges.


How is a switch different to pulling the plug?

I've also heard the "the switch might not be DP" but I would have though
if you really wanted to isolate the system you'd pull the plug out...

On 14/02/15 18:20, charles wrote:
In article , Mark Carver
wrote:
On 14/02/2015 17:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make. What
governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the
regs?

What's the logic behind that directive ?

my logic was that removing power to the system, which includes the pump,
could result in overheating of the boiler and a consequent shut down, so
that when power was restored the boiler wouldn't restart. This could, if I
wasn't at home, result in expensive call out charges.


In fact that makes no sense at all - I've seen boilers with switched
FCUs feeding them.

In article , Mark Carver
writes
On 14/02/2015 17:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the regs?

What's the logic behind that directive ?

I'd guess at safety concerns.

The heating system should be isolated for maintenance and that means
double pole isolation. Since switched sockets can be either single or
double pole switched then there is a risk that using the switch alone
could result in a incomplete isolation.

If an unswitched socket is used then there is no ambiguity, the system
is isolated by removing the plug which will always result in double pole
isolation. If a switched FCU (Fused Connection Unit) is used instead,
these are required to be double pole switched so full isolation is
achieved. It would be common to remove the fuse too if working on the
system.

I'm sure Adam will pull me up at some point if I've misread the reasons
for the rules.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

In article ,
Mark Carver writes:
On 14/02/2015 17:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I don't, having made my own decision 26 years ago. Is it now in the regs?

What's the logic behind that directive ?

It was a Corgi rule. It's not part of the Gas Regs.
I don't know if it's something Gassafe also insist on.

It was because installers/maintainers might be temped to isolate
the appliance by using the switch, but breaking the live only is
not isolating the appliance.

You might argue a DP switch would be OK, but this cannot be easily
confirmed by inspecting the socket, and gas installers are not
expected to know such details.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote:

On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

Yes you can.
Care to explain why you think that?

--
Alan
To reply by mail, change '+' to 'plus'

On 14/02/2015 17:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

There is no regulatory requirement that I am aware of, although it makes
sense not to use switched sockets for critical appliances (boiler,
freezer etc) where one would not like them to be accidentally switched off.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/02/2015 23:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2015 17:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

There is no regulatory requirement that I am aware of, although it makes
sense not to use switched sockets for critical appliances (boiler,
freezer etc) where one would not like them to be accidentally switched off.

Unfortunately plenty of freezers have an on/off button on the front top
edge that can easily be switched off by someone leaning on the unit!

The "too warm" alarm doesn't sound when the power is off either.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 10:46:26 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 14/02/2015 23:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2015 17:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

There is no regulatory requirement that I am aware of, although it
makes sense not to use switched sockets for critical appliances
(boiler,
freezer etc) where one would not like them to be accidentally switched
off.

Unfortunately plenty of freezers have an on/off button on the front top
edge that can easily be switched off by someone leaning on the unit!

The "too warm" alarm doesn't sound when the power is off either.

I just have a cover over the socket marked 'Freezer'.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £30a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

John Rumm put finger to keyboard:

On 14/02/2015 17:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

There is no regulatory requirement that I am aware of, although it makes
sense not to use switched sockets for critical appliances (boiler,
freezer etc) where one would not like them to be accidentally switched
off.

The switch for my kitchen under-cupboard strip lights on one side is next
to the switch for the freezer. A couple of times people have gone to turn
off the lights, tried the freezer switch, seen it hasn't worked and then
tried the correct switch. But do they think "I wonder what I just turned
off by mistake?" Of course not - they leave the freezer switched off!

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:08:21 +0000, Scion wrote:

John Rumm put finger to keyboard:

On 14/02/2015 17:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make. What
governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

There is no regulatory requirement that I am aware of, although it
makes sense not to use switched sockets for critical appliances
(boiler, freezer etc) where one would not like them to be accidentally
switched off.

The switch for my kitchen under-cupboard strip lights on one side is
next to the switch for the freezer. A couple of times people have gone
to turn off the lights, tried the freezer switch, seen it hasn't worked
and then tried the correct switch. But do they think "I wonder what I
just turned off by mistake?" Of course not - they leave the freezer
switched off!

Ours is just round a corner next to a light switch. Hence the cover.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £30a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In message ,
writes
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

Owain


You can. Whether you should or not is a different matter!

I have just found having an old 1960s installation plugged into a 13A
socket is very useful.

The oil fired boiler feeds an induction coil in the hot water tank and
the radiators. The only form of control is the room thermostat, no
timer or zoning valves fitted. The electric immersion heater is used
in the summer for hot water and oil in the winter.

I need to leave the house unattended for some time and fit a timer to
keep the chill off the house. This was very simple, I plugged one of
the simple peg timers in series with the 13A plug, job done.
--
Bill

On Sunday, 15 February 2015 12:13:07 UTC, Huge wrote:
You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.
I think you mean "may not" rather than "cannot", since my boiler's been
plugged into a switched socket for 21 years to my knowledge, and it works
just fine.

me� culp�, me� culp�, me� maxim� culp�

Owain

wrote:

On Sunday, 15 February 2015 12:13:07 UTC, Huge wrote:
You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.
I think you mean "may not" rather than "cannot", since my boiler's been
plugged into a switched socket for 21 years to my knowledge, and it works
just fine.

meà culpà, meà culpà, meà maximà culpà

No problem, everyone on here has been slightly misinformed at some time.

--
Alan
To reply by mail, change '+' to 'plus'

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-02-14,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I think you mean "may not" rather than "cannot", since my boiler's been
plugged into a switched socket for 21 years to my knowledge, and it works
just fine.


That means you can just unplug your boiler from the socket for electrical
isolation and you do not have to give a give a **** about the socket having
single or double pole switching.



--
Adam

ARW wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-02-14,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.
What governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I think you mean "may not" rather than "cannot", since my boiler's been
plugged into a switched socket for 21 years to my knowledge, and it works
just fine.

That means you can just unplug your boiler from the socket for electrical
isolation and you do not have to give a give a **** about the socket having
single or double pole switching.

FWIW I don't think I ever use a socket switch to turn something off for
any purpose, never mind maintenance where safety might be involved.

I'd wager that in this house, every switched socket is either switched
on with a plug inserted, or switched off with no plug inserted.

Perhaps that's just me. But I suspect not.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 15/02/15 18:40, Mike Barnes wrote:

FWIW I don't think I ever use a socket switch to turn something off for
any purpose, never mind maintenance where safety might be involved.

I'd wager that in this house, every switched socket is either switched
on with a plug inserted, or switched off with no plug inserted.

Perhaps that's just me. But I suspect not.

I use the switches a lot - to not leave stuff unnecessarily powered.

I'm not worried about a few 10's of watts - but my view is, he
proliferation of little PSUs these days and appliances - if they are
left powered that's a little more probability of one going bang and
starting a fire.

When I was a kid, we had perhaps 6-7 things receiving power all the time
(excepting table lamps that had their own proper switches):


TV
Video (later)
Microwave
Cooker
Boiler
Washing machine
Tumble drier

In fact the last two items had proper mechanical switches built in so
turning them off was nearly as good as unplugging.


These days:

Chargers - 5
Computers (except laptops) - 3
Network gear - 4
Phone bases - 2
TV - 1
Media player - 1
Cooking appliances with electronics and soft switches - 4

Just turning off those 5 chargers and appliances halves the probability
of bad things happening.

But it's nice to not have to actually unplug stuff and have chargers and
cables lying around.

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW I don't think I ever use a socket switch to turn something off for
any purpose, never mind maintenance where safety might be involved.

I'd wager that in this house, every switched socket is either switched
on with a plug inserted, or switched off with no plug inserted.

Perhaps that's just me. But I suspect not.

You sound like my father. The TV had to be switched off on the set first,
then the socket, and finally unplugged. Yet he built crystal sets when
younger and radio was new.

OCD hadn't been invented then.

--
*The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
FWIW I don't think I ever use a socket switch to turn something off for
any purpose, never mind maintenance where safety might be involved.

I'd wager that in this house, every switched socket is either switched
on with a plug inserted, or switched off with no plug inserted.

Perhaps that's just me. But I suspect not.

You sound like my father.

I'm not your father. At least I don't think so.

The TV had to be switched off on the set first,
then the socket, and finally unplugged.

Are you focussing on the fact that all three had to be done, or that
they had to be done in that particular order?

FWIW our telly is plugged in to a switched-on socket all the time, but
switched OFF at the set most of the time.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2015-02-14, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make. What
governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I think you mean "may not" rather than "cannot", since my boiler's been
plugged into a switched socket for 21 years to my knowledge, and it works
just fine.

Quite. I'd rather have a boiler fed via a plug and socket - single or DP
switched - than an FCU, since you can unplug it. A definite air gap is
more confidence building than any switch.

--
*If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:57:38 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2015-02-14, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 February 2015 16:38:04 UTC, Kevin wrote:
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make. What
governs which version one should use?

You can't use a switched one of any variety for supplying a boiler.

I think you mean "may not" rather than "cannot", since my boiler's been
plugged into a switched socket for 21 years to my knowledge, and it works
just fine.

Quite. I'd rather have a boiler fed via a plug and socket - single or DP
switched - than an FCU, since you can unplug it. A definite air gap is
more confidence building than any switch.

The MK Logic Plus sockets quote a DP 3mm air gap - the same as a shower
pull-switch. I've used them where I want to switch off but unplugging would
be awkward.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

No idea here, I've had sp in this house since the70s and no problems with
isolation. I suppose one might say its proof against idiots, but then
someone always comes up with a better idiot.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?

__

Kevin

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:30:19 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

No idea here, I've had sp in this house since the70s and no problems with
isolation. I suppose one might say its proof against idiots, but then
someone always comes up with a better idiot.

There's no such thing as a "Better Idiot". A "more inventive one",
yes but 'better'?, definitely not. :-)
--
J B Good

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of switched
sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


The choice of the person buying the sockets and nothing else.

--
Adam

On 15/02/15 17:24, ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


The choice of the person buying the sockets and nothing else.


Thank you, gentlemen: there obviously wasn't any great subtlety of rules
or practice which had escaped me: I'll continue to buy SP sockets when
available, but stick to DP flex outlets.

__

Kevin

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/15 17:24, ARW wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I see that many suppliers now offer both SP and DP versions of
switched sockets, with DP up to 50% dearer for a given make.

What governs which version one should use?


The choice of the person buying the sockets and nothing else.


Thank you, gentlemen: there obviously wasn't any great subtlety of rules
or practice which had escaped me: I'll continue to buy SP sockets when
available, but stick to DP flex outlets.


You cannot buy a SP switched fused connection unit (if that is what you are
referring to). They do not exist.

--
Adam