Hi All

Are there any regs/guidelines as to how many 2.5mm T&E cables should be
connected into one double socket outlet?

Obviously two is OK - one in one out - but I found one the other day with
four. Terminals could hardly cope. Replaced that with a junction box as it
seemed much safer to me.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Hi All

Are there any regs/guidelines as to how many 2.5mm T&E cables should be
connected into one double socket outlet?

Obviously two is OK - one in one out - but I found one the other day with
four. Terminals could hardly cope. Replaced that with a junction box as it
seemed much safer to me.


I think that three is the maximum, the ring and a radial from it.

Four sounds like two radials from it which is not right. BICBW.

Steve.

"Steve" wrote in message
.uk...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Hi All

Are there any regs/guidelines as to how many 2.5mm T&E cables should be
connected into one double socket outlet?

Obviously two is OK - one in one out - but I found one the other day with
four. Terminals could hardly cope. Replaced that with a junction box as
it seemed much safer to me.


I think that three is the maximum, the ring and a radial from it.

Four sounds like two radials from it which is not right. BICBW.

No, you are not (wrong)

tim

"tim....." wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
.uk...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Hi All

Are there any regs/guidelines as to how many 2.5mm T&E cables should be
connected into one double socket outlet?

Obviously two is OK - one in one out - but I found one the other day
with four. Terminals could hardly cope. Replaced that with a junction
box as it seemed much safer to me.


I think that three is the maximum, the ring and a radial from it.

Four sounds like two radials from it which is not right. BICBW.

No, you are not (wrong)

tim

I was under the impression you can T off anywhere with a radial circuit, so
as long as the wiring was sound, you can have as many as you like!

a JB is probably better though, as long as you can get to it afterwards, of
course.

Sparks...

Steve wrote:

Four sounds like two radials from it which is not right. BICBW.

You are assuming the circuit is a ring to start with however. If the
circuit were a radial to begin with then the branches can occur anywhere.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Hi All

Are there any regs/guidelines as to how many 2.5mm T&E cables should be
connected into one double socket outlet?

No, but it is required that the terminals can cope with the number
of conductors. Different manufacturers have different conductor
capacities, so you might get more milage by swapping out one make
for another. The other limiting factor is the depth of back box,
and having sufficient wiring space.

Obviously two is OK - one in one out - but I found one the other day with
four. Terminals could hardly cope. Replaced that with a junction box as it
seemed much safer to me.

Four is not unheard of -- a ring and a couple of spurs.
(Note that the limit of no more spurs than socket outlets is across
a whole ring circuit, and does not imply you can only have one spur
from any socket on the ring.)

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:



Four is not unheard of -- a ring and a couple of spurs.
(Note that the limit of no more spurs than socket outlets is across
a whole ring circuit, and does not imply you can only have one spur
from any socket on the ring.)


My apologies. I did not realise that this is an acceptable practice and
it seems that I fell into the trap of assuming that the maximum of one
spur per socket on a ring meant that only one spur could be taken from
any socket.

Anyway, with that cleared-up, I wish everyone on here a very happy new
year and hope that 2007 is kind to all DIYers!

Steve.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

(Note that the limit of no more spurs than socket outlets is across
a whole ring circuit, and does not imply you can only have one spur
from any socket on the ring.)

Let me get this right. If you have say 8 sockets on a ring, you couldn't
have more than 8 spurs - but you could have 2 spurs on 4 sockets & no spurs
on the other 4?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

(Note that the limit of no more spurs than socket outlets is across
a whole ring circuit, and does not imply you can only have one spur
from any socket on the ring.)

Let me get this right. If you have say 8 sockets on a ring, you couldn't
have more than 8 spurs - but you could have 2 spurs on 4 sockets & no
spurs on the other 4?


--


This http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/6.3.2.htm suggests yes. Well it
doesn't say no as far as I can see.

I would have thought cramming more than three minimum 2.5mm conductors into
each terminal would be at best a pain in the backside though.


H

In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

(Note that the limit of no more spurs than socket outlets is across
a whole ring circuit, and does not imply you can only have one spur
from any socket on the ring.)

Let me get this right. If you have say 8 sockets on a ring, you couldn't
have more than 8 spurs - but you could have 2 spurs on 4 sockets & no spurs
on the other 4?

Correct.
Note this is in the OSG only -- it's not part of the Wiring Regs.

The motivation behind this is that a ring circuit is normally
initially installed with no spurs. If you reach the point where
half the socket outlets are spurs, the original ring circuit was
clearly inadequate for current usage and should be redesigned
rather than continuing to outgrow its original design.

--
Andrew Gabriel

HLAH wrote:

I would have thought cramming more than three minimum 2.5mm conductors into
each terminal would be at best a pain in the backside though.

Much depends on the brand of accessory you are using though. I was doing
some wiring for a neighbour last week using TLC's "Ultimate" range of
accessories (made by GET)[1]. These were very nice to wire with large
square opening terminal blocks that would take 4 x 2.5mm^2 T&E with ease
if you wanted. (they were also colour coded in new and old colours as
well as being marked with the normal lettering, and had twin earth
connections)


[1] He
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...All/index.html


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Correct.
Note this is in the OSG only -- it's not part of the Wiring Regs.

The motivation behind this is that a ring circuit is normally
initially installed with no spurs. If you reach the point where
half the socket outlets are spurs, the original ring circuit was
clearly inadequate for current usage and should be redesigned
rather than continuing to outgrow its original design.

Thank you Andrew - I am now a wiser man.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

John Rumm wrote:

Much depends on the brand of accessory you are using though. I was
doing some wiring for a neighbour last week using TLC's "Ultimate"
range of accessories (made by GET)[1]. These were very nice to wire
with large square opening terminal blocks that would take 4 x 2.5mm^2
T&E with ease if you wanted. (they were also colour coded in new and
old colours as well as being marked with the normal lettering, and
had twin earth connections)


Thanks John - I will check that out tomorrow.



--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
HLAH wrote:

I would have thought cramming more than three minimum 2.5mm conductors
into each terminal would be at best a pain in the backside though.

Much depends on the brand of accessory you are using though. I was doing
some wiring for a neighbour last week using TLC's "Ultimate" range of
accessories (made by GET)[1]. These were very nice to wire with large
square opening terminal blocks that would take 4 x 2.5mm^2 T&E with ease
if you wanted. (they were also colour coded in new and old colours as well
as being marked with the normal lettering, and had twin earth connections)


[1] He
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...All/index.html


--

When I clicked the link I expected a deep inhalation "how much?!" moment,
but they are a good price. I will bear them in mind for the next project.

Cheers.

H

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

(Note that the limit of no more spurs than socket outlets is across
a whole ring circuit, and does not imply you can only have one spur
from any socket on the ring.)

Let me get this right. If you have say 8 sockets on a ring, you couldn't
have more than 8 spurs - but you could have 2 spurs on 4 sockets & no spurs
on the other 4?

Yes, that's my understanding. The limit on spurs is only
'recommended' anyway, it's not a hard and fast rule. It's more to
indicate when a new ring might be a sensible option.

--
Chris Green

HLAH wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message

some wiring for a neighbour last week using TLC's "Ultimate" range of
accessories (made by GET)[1]. These were very nice to wire with large

[1] He
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...All/index.html

When I clicked the link I expected a deep inhalation "how much?!" moment,
but they are a good price. I will bear them in mind for the next project.

Yup, I was quite impressed with them for a number of reasons including
the price. They are also physically quite strong so no danger of
cracking a faceplate etc, and the terminals are all in a line so folding
the wires up into the back box after is easier. Terminals accept cross
head or slotted driver and the screws don't disintegrate either. The
only real fault with the range seems to be there are some accessories
that you can't get (like unswitched sockets).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/