"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

You don't say if the circuit it's plugged into is already RCD
protected.
If it is, you won't really gain anything and there probebly wont even
be any discrimination, ie the CU RCD will trip as well.


Well I'm not sure if I've got an RCD. I've taken photos of a breaker
that sits between the meter (wires into top) and the main fuse box
(wires out the bottom). Had to mess around with a mirror to get the
circuit diagram but I can't see any description, make etc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)

What you have is an obsolete voltage operated trip. (Predecessor to RCD)
It trips if 40V or more appears on the earth, or should do.

They were done away with because they can interact with a nieghbours similar
device. causing various problems

You really need to get rid of it and fit and RCD near the meter.
Forget about one for your blanket alone, there is no advantage.
Electrocution from blankets is virtually unheard of.

The danger from blankets is overheating and subsequent fire.
Even this is unusual nowadays.

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

--
AnthonyL

AnthonyL wrote:
The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?


Just keep paying the life insurance?!

In article , AnthonyL
writes
The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Can't do any harm but be aware that the adaptor type products are IME
more prone to false trips when left on for extended periods
(weeks/months) than ones designed for consumer unit use so a trip may
not necessarily indicate a fault in the blanket.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

You don't say if the circuit it's plugged into is already RCD
protected.
If it is, you won't really gain anything and there probebly wont even
be any discrimination, ie the CU RCD will trip as well.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 14/02/15 13:38, AnthonyL wrote:
The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?


Why not?

However teh RCD is unlikely to help if the thing wants to catch fire
(assuming it is a Class II appliance)

In article ,
lid (AnthonyL) wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

If it's 15 years old I'd change it anyway: I have just done exactly that
myself, being a big, B-I-I-G fan of electric blankets (as I've said in
another thread recently, my wife gets way too hot, so I just have a
single, on my side of the bed).

I got this one:
http://www.johnlewis.com/dreamland-6...electric-under
blanket/p231270114

I'm extremely pleased with it -- it's far in advance of my old one,
though I doubt if it will last as long as that (about 15 years in my
case, too). Greatest thing for me is: heats up to red hot in 5 mins.

hth
John

Another John i.e. I myself wrote:

If it's 15 years old I'd change it anyway: I have just done exactly that
myself, being a big, B-I-I-G fan of electric blankets (as I've said in
another thread recently, my wife gets way too hot, so I just have a
single, on my side of the bed).

I got this one:
http://www.johnlewis.com/dreamland-6...electric-under
blanket/p231270114

BLOODY HELL!! I've just noticed that that item is FIFTEEN POUNDS less
than I paid, in the store, one month ago!!!! Maybe they've reduced
them because we're coming out of winter?

John

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

You don't say if the circuit it's plugged into is already RCD
protected.
If it is, you won't really gain anything and there probebly wont even
be any discrimination, ie the CU RCD will trip as well.


Well I'm not sure if I've got an RCD. I've taken photos of a breaker
that sits between the meter (wires into top) and the main fuse box
(wires out the bottom). Had to mess around with a mirror to get the
circuit diagram but I can't see any description, make etc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


--
AnthonyL

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:29:41 +0000, Another John
wrote:

In article ,
lid (AnthonyL) wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

If it's 15 years old I'd change it anyway: I have just done exactly that
myself, being a big, B-I-I-G fan of electric blankets (as I've said in
another thread recently, my wife gets way too hot, so I just have a
single, on my side of the bed).


I'm the opposite - my wife is always cold (well not for about a dozen
days in the summer).

I got this one:
http://www.johnlewis.com/dreamland-6...electric-under
blanket/p231270114

I'm extremely pleased with it -- it's far in advance of my old one,
though I doubt if it will last as long as that (about 15 years in my
case, too). Greatest thing for me is: heats up to red hot in 5 mins.


Looks promising - thanks for the heads up.

--
AnthonyL

In article ,
AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

You don't say if the circuit it's plugged into is already RCD
protected.
If it is, you won't really gain anything and there probebly wont even
be any discrimination, ie the CU RCD will trip as well.


Well I'm not sure if I've got an RCD. I've taken photos of a breaker
that sits between the meter (wires into top) and the main fuse box
(wires out the bottom). Had to mess around with a mirror to get the
circuit diagram but I can't see any description, make etc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)

It looks like an ELCB, the precedecessor of the RCD

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 7:59:30 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

You don't say if the circuit it's plugged into is already RCD
protected.
If it is, you won't really gain anything and there probebly wont even
be any discrimination, ie the CU RCD will trip as well.


Well I'm not sure if I've got an RCD. I've taken photos of a breaker
that sits between the meter (wires into top) and the main fuse box
(wires out the bottom). Had to mess around with a mirror to get the
circuit diagram but I can't see any description, make etc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)

That's an ELCB, which won't offer any shock protection. I'd always use an RCD with an electric blanket. They kill more people than all other domestic appliances combined


NT

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

You don't say if the circuit it's plugged into is already RCD
protected.
If it is, you won't really gain anything and there probebly wont even
be any discrimination, ie the CU RCD will trip as well.


Well I'm not sure if I've got an RCD. I've taken photos of a breaker
that sits between the meter (wires into top) and the main fuse box
(wires out the bottom). Had to mess around with a mirror to get the
circuit diagram but I can't see any description, make etc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


--
Chris French

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 7:59:30 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

You don't say if the circuit it's plugged into is already RCD
protected.
If it is, you won't really gain anything and there probebly wont even
be any discrimination, ie the CU RCD will trip as well.


Well I'm not sure if I've got an RCD. I've taken photos of a breaker
that sits between the meter (wires into top) and the main fuse box
(wires out the bottom). Had to mess around with a mirror to get the
circuit diagram but I can't see any description, make etc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)

That's an ELCB, which won't offer any shock protection. I'd always use an
RCD with an electric blanket. They kill more people than all other
domestic appliances combined

How many do they in fact kill and how
many of those have stuff like pacemakers ?

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

The wife's underblanket is designed to be used all night if required.
It must be now 15yrs old. I regularly visually check it and there is
no fraying or sign of deterioration but I'm wondering if it would be
wise in any even to plug in via an RCD adapter.

Thoughts?

You don't say if the circuit it's plugged into is already RCD
protected.
If it is, you won't really gain anything and there probebly wont even
be any discrimination, ie the CU RCD will trip as well.


Well I'm not sure if I've got an RCD. I've taken photos of a breaker
that sits between the meter (wires into top) and the main fuse box
(wires out the bottom). Had to mess around with a mirror to get the
circuit diagram but I can't see any description, make etc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

I'll buy an individual RCD anyway just to be safe, and probably a new
blanket.

--
AnthonyL

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole house going off.


NT

In article ,
lid (AnthonyL) writes:
Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

No, it protects against a fire if your earth connection is not
good enough to make a fuse blow. It is not intended to protect
against electrocution.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

If it's not nuisance tripping and still works when you press
the test button, I would leave it there, as simply replacing
it with an RCD no longer meets current regs either.

To meet current regs, you would need to replace the CU with
a 17th Edition CU, or replace MCBs with RCBOs in a CU which
doesn't have RCDs. (Then the ELCB could be removed.)

I'll buy an individual RCD anyway just to be safe, and probably a new
blanket.

Yes.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:11:52 PM UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
lid (AnthonyL) writes:
Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

No, it protects against a fire if your earth connection is not
good enough to make a fuse blow. It is not intended to protect
against electrocution.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

If it's not nuisance tripping and still works when you press
the test button, I would leave it there, as simply replacing
it with an RCD no longer meets current regs either.

To meet current regs, you would need to replace the CU with
a 17th Edition CU, or replace MCBs with RCBOs in a CU which
doesn't have RCDs. (Then the ELCB could be removed.)

Replacing ELCB with RCD would give some added shock protection, even if not now compliant. It might also introduce false trip problems.
Keeping the ELCB and adding RCD cover in the fusebox/CU would be better, but its more work & money.
Neither is obligatory in most situations.


NT

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

--
AnthonyL

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:49:24 AM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a 30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


NT

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:49:22 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!


Thinking about it further I don't think the RCD triggered, it merely
reset on having the power cut?

Still confused.

--
AnthonyL

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:32:54 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:49:24 AM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a 30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

..
..
..
..
..
only joking


--
AnthonyL

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:19:07 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:32:54 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:49:24 AM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a 30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

Although it's a bit high (10W v 7.2W), I 'mis-wired' a 10W soldering iron as
a test. Worked OK.


--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:11:31 +0000, PeterC
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:19:07 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:32:54 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:49:24 AM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a 30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

Although it's a bit high (10W v 7.2W), I 'mis-wired' a 10W soldering iron as
a test. Worked OK.


Good idea - I presume it didn't damage the soldering iron?

--
AnthonyL

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 5:20:14 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:11:31 +0000, PeterC
wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:19:07 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a 30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

6.8k 8.4w so any 10-15w load with reasonably stable R.


Although it's a bit high (10W v 7.2W), I 'mis-wired' a 10W soldering iron as
a test. Worked OK.


Good idea - I presume it didn't damage the soldering iron?

240v on a 240v iron... not a problem.


NT

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:59:42 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 5:20:14 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:11:31 +0000, PeterC
wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:19:07 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a 30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

6.8k 8.4w so any 10-15w load with reasonably stable R.


Although it's a bit high (10W v 7.2W), I 'mis-wired' a 10W soldering iron as
a test. Worked OK.


Good idea - I presume it didn't damage the soldering iron?

240v on a 240v iron... not a problem.


Doh!!

--
AnthonyL

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:59:42 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 5:20:14 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:11:31 +0000, PeterC
wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:19:07 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a 30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

6.8k 8.4w so any 10-15w load with reasonably stable R.


Although it's a bit high (10W v 7.2W), I 'mis-wired' a 10W soldering iron as
a test. Worked OK.


Good idea - I presume it didn't damage the soldering iron?

240v on a 240v iron... not a problem.


Think I've got it. Shorted neutral to earth on the soldering iron
plug and a nice clean and instant trip on the RCD and not a flicker
elsewhere.


--
AnthonyL

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 7:21:21 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:59:42 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 5:20:14 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:11:31 +0000, PeterC
wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:19:07 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a 30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

6.8k 8.4w so any 10-15w load with reasonably stable R.


Although it's a bit high (10W v 7.2W), I 'mis-wired' a 10W soldering iron as
a test. Worked OK.


Good idea - I presume it didn't damage the soldering iron?

240v on a 240v iron... not a problem.


Think I've got it. Shorted neutral to earth on the soldering iron
plug and a nice clean and instant trip on the RCD and not a flicker
elsewhere.

that demonstrates that the elsewhere device isnt providing good shock protection. ELCBs don't.


NT

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the
time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole
house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?



Nice move. Want a job?


--
Adam

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:32:54 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:49:24 AM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live
to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to
give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth
(TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the
time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual
devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time
delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the
whole house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?

Somewhat confused!

No. You created a huge fault current, probably over 1000A. Try creating a
30mA current - the RCD should trip, but a delayed RCD or ELCB won't.


So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Doesn’t need to be mains rated for a quick test like that, any 8K resistor
will be fine.

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

.
.
.
.
.
only joking


--
AnthonyL

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:56:38 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:49:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:08:13 PM UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:38:09 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 15:58:21 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:38:52 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/790182...7650400040769/

Is there a reasonably safe way to check if it is an RCD (short live to
earth on a 3 pin?)


That looks like an old voltage operated ELCB (earth leakage circuit
breaker), we used to have one like it. Used in our house anyway to give
whole house protection in the event of a voltage flowing to earth (TT
earthing)

Not that ours ever tripped. even when by B-I-L got a shock due to a
live/earth fault.


Oh - I thought that if the blanket shorted through a person that
should trigger it

You can fry in hell & an ELCB won't give a damn. RCDs care 50% of the
time, when its a L-N fryup they don't either.

AIUI Doesn't really give the protection of an RCD to individual devices
or circuits

(ours since replaced with a time delayed RCD


I presume it isn't a big job to replace it? But why a "time delayed"?

No. So as you add RCDs further downline, those trip instead of the whole
house going off.



I bought an RCD, put an open plug on it and shorted live to earth.
Nice big bang, both RCD and ELCB (or whatever it is) tripped and
everything in the house went dark.

So am I right to think that I'm getting all the protection I need from
the ELCB?



Nice move. Want a job?


I'm working hard at trying to be retired thanks. But I still get
flashbacks to when I was a kid and I tried to fix a loose joint on an
old in-line mains connector to the wireless. Didn't pay attention to
male/female rules (I think I was still underage for that sort of
thing) and ended up with the male on the live plug end which was
powered when I tried to pick it up. Somehow I survived (never told my
parents) and an RCD (not yet invented) probably would have save me
some pain. My arm hurt for a few days.

--
AnthonyL

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:20:10 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

So ~ V = I R ( yes I know it's AC but approximate is near enough?)

Around 8kohm mains rated resistor?

Any usual household goods deliver that? Or trust it to stick my
fingers across .

Although it's a bit high (10W v 7.2W), I 'mis-wired' a 10W soldering iron as
a test. Worked OK.


Good idea - I presume it didn't damage the soldering iron?

It is still working - probably handles the dissipation quite well ;-)
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway