As per subject!

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your car?

On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your car?


The latter.

--
Colin Bignell

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
As per subject!

They tried to setup one around me for a new 20MPH zone, but I've never
seen it operating in the 20MPH zone, only in the older 30MPH areas.
I suspect they never finished off the 20MPH signage to legal
requirements (in particular, the repeaters or traffic calming measures
required were not implemented, just 20's painted on the road, which I
don't think count for anything).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past the
school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

They tried to setup one around me for a new 20MPH zone, but I've never
seen it operating in the 20MPH zone, only in the older 30MPH areas.
I suspect they never finished off the 20MPH signage to legal
requirements (in particular, the repeaters or traffic calming measures
required were not implemented, just 20's painted on the road, which I
don't think count for anything).

pedantry_watch
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...


But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.


But at least you know which houses to egg on mischievous night.

--
Adam

Apologies for mis-keying leading to premature epostulation

pedantry_watch

I think there's also an exemption from repeater signs if there are
full-size 20 mph signs at every entrance to the controlled roads. That
catches out some visitors here where - although AFAICS there's no
enforcement of the lmit at all.

/pedantry_watch
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

Robin wrote:
Apologies for mis-keying leading to premature epostulation

Do you mean expostulation?

Bill

Do you mean expostulation?


Oh no. I can see why you might have thought so but that was,
exceptionally, not a typo. It just struck me that as we have ebooks and
email it was perhaps time we epostulated - though I have no illusion of
publication somewhere which might gain me an entry in the OED.



--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 18/01/15 13:38, Bill Wright wrote:
Robin wrote:
Apologies for mis-keying leading to premature epostulation

Do you mean expostulation?

Bill
No E-postulation is the process of placing an untested hypothesis online
as absolute truth.

See '911 CIA' 'Climate change down to man' etc etc.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 18/01/15 14:59, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Robin wrote:
They tried to setup one around me for a new 20MPH zone, but I've never
seen it operating in the 20MPH zone, only in the older 30MPH areas.
I suspect they never finished off the 20MPH signage to legal
requirements (in particular, the repeaters or traffic calming measures
required were not implemented, just 20's painted on the road, which I
don't think count for anything).

pedantry_watch

Only if you think that complying with the law is pedantry.



Depends. Pulling people 1mph over the limit would be pedantic, even
though technically still an offence. Not to mention some laws are just
stupid and should not be complied with on principle.

On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past the
school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

They don't pull anybody. They note the numbers of cars that exceed the
speed limit and by how much and pass those to the Police. Persistent
offenders then may get a visit from the Police, who can do no more than
advise them of the dangers of speeding.

--
Colin Bignell

"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past the
school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

They don't pull anybody.


They could not pull a prostitute in a brothel with a £50 note wrapped around
their dick.

--
Adam

pedantry_watch

Only if you think that complying with the law is pedantry.

As my follow-up tried to indicate, the post on which you commented
involved no such thinking - it weren't me it was them fingers 'guv
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 18/01/15 15:28, ARW wrote:
"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your
car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past the
school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

They don't pull anybody.


They could not pull a prostitute in a brothel with a £50 note wrapped
around their dick.


No - that would be infringing on the CPS's turf!

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 15:11:59 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 18/01/15 14:59, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Robin wrote:
They tried to setup one around me for a new 20MPH zone, but I've never
seen it operating in the 20MPH zone, only in the older 30MPH areas.
I suspect they never finished off the 20MPH signage to legal
requirements (in particular, the repeaters or traffic calming measures
required were not implemented, just 20's painted on the road, which I
don't think count for anything).

pedantry_watch

Only if you think that complying with the law is pedantry.



Depends. Pulling people 1mph over the limit would be pedantic, even
though technically still an offence. Not to mention some laws are just
stupid and should not be complied with on principle.

There's no such thing as being pulled over by the police for being
only 1mph over the posted or implied limit (unless you're referring to
the possibility of being caught by doing 36mph in a 30mph limited
section of road).

Indeed, the police (at least the North Wales Police who most
definitely aren't working hand in hand with the Welsh tourist board)
will quite happily annoy motorists who have touched the limit plus 10%
plus 2mph allowances as I discovered a decade or so back.

The only consolation to this incident, where I was clocked as doing
35mph (almost certainly at the beginning of a 30mph stretch after
travelling a 50mph or derestricted section) was that I was offered the
alternative of a speed awareness course (same 60 quid price as a
speeding ticket but without the addition of 3 points on my license).
Needless to say, I opted for the speed awareness course.

Whilst, currently in law, there's no enforcable speed limit below
30mph and signage for 20mph and slower are merely 'advisory', there
are plenty of side roads (and even the odd main road) where travelling
at the 30mph limit is quite clearly 'wreckless' or downright
dangerous.

In this case, the police would certainly be able to prosecute
motorists who fail to take heed of the 20mph advisory signage, not on
the basis of 'breaking a speed limit' but on the basis of 'wreckless'
or 'dangerous' driving, so are not powerless to deal with such
inconsiderate road users.

Perhaps the police aren't so keen on taking this approach since the
prosecution process isn't quite so clean cut as a measurement of speed
showing a clear and unambiguous breach of the speed laws. IOW, they
prefer to take the lazy way out when such incidents do not include
death or injury.
--
J B Good

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-01-18, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your
car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past the
school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

They don't pull anybody. They note the numbers of cars that exceed the
speed limit and by how much and pass those to the Police. Persistent
offenders then may get a visit from the Police, who can do no more than
advise them of the dangers of speeding.

The whole thing being a stupid, pointless waste of time and money.


It allows a load of self rightous ****s to act like a god for five minutes.


--
Adam

On 18/01/15 16:40, Johny B Good wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 15:11:59 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 18/01/15 14:59, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Robin wrote:
They tried to setup one around me for a new 20MPH zone, but I've never
seen it operating in the 20MPH zone, only in the older 30MPH areas.
I suspect they never finished off the 20MPH signage to legal
requirements (in particular, the repeaters or traffic calming measures
required were not implemented, just 20's painted on the road, which I
don't think count for anything).

pedantry_watch

Only if you think that complying with the law is pedantry.



Depends. Pulling people 1mph over the limit would be pedantic, even
though technically still an offence. Not to mention some laws are just
stupid and should not be complied with on principle.

There's no such thing as being pulled over by the police for being
only 1mph over the posted or implied limit (unless you're referring to
the possibility of being caught by doing 36mph in a 30mph limited
section of road).

We're talking about the neighbourhood DIY speed gun schemes.

And I used "pull" loosely - they get your number, which amounts to the
same thing.

Indeed, the police (at least the North Wales Police who most
definitely aren't working hand in hand with the Welsh tourist board)
will quite happily annoy motorists who have touched the limit plus 10%
plus 2mph allowances as I discovered a decade or so back.

This are ACPO guidelines - the law is absolute about the limits.

The only consolation to this incident, where I was clocked as doing
35mph (almost certainly at the beginning of a 30mph stretch after
travelling a 50mph or derestricted section) was that I was offered the
alternative of a speed awareness course (same 60 quid price as a
speeding ticket but without the addition of 3 points on my license).
Needless to say, I opted for the speed awareness course.

Whilst, currently in law, there's no enforcable speed limit below
30mph and signage for 20mph and slower are merely 'advisory', there
are plenty of side roads (and even the odd main road) where travelling
at the 30mph limit is quite clearly 'wreckless' or downright
dangerous.

In this case, the police would certainly be able to prosecute
motorists who fail to take heed of the 20mph advisory signage, not on
the basis of 'breaking a speed limit' but on the basis of 'wreckless'
or 'dangerous' driving, so are not powerless to deal with such
inconsiderate road users.

Perhaps the police aren't so keen on taking this approach since the
prosecution process isn't quite so clean cut as a measurement of speed
showing a clear and unambiguous breach of the speed laws. IOW, they
prefer to take the lazy way out when such incidents do not include
death or injury.

On 18/01/15 16:40, ARW wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message

The whole thing being a stupid, pointless waste of time and money.


It allows a load of self rightous ****s to act like a god for five minutes.



It suppose it gives them a reason to go out rather than standing behind
their curtains twitching like Galvani's frog.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:40:09 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:

Whilst, currently in law, there's no enforcable speed limit below
30mph and signage for 20mph and slower are merely 'advisory', ...

Are you sure? I've seen 20 mph circular signage with a green border
but recently spotted some with a red border, normal size on entering
the zone and with smaller repeator signs, also with red borders
within the zone. Just looked on Street View, (Lightfoot Lane,
Preston) but the images there are too old.

If those circular red bordered, white ground, black lettering signs
are not enforceable(*) it makes a mockery of *all* other signage.

(*) Assuming the have been installed correctly and comply with the
regulations. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

Johny B Good wrote:
snip
Whilst, currently in law, there's no enforcable speed limit below
30mph and signage for 20mph and slower are merely 'advisory',


AIUI that used to be true but now there are the usual course/fixed
penalties/summons available in properly designated and signed 20 mph
zones. See eg
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice.../speeding.html or
http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news...ey_1_39203 36


--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Robin wrote:
pedantry_watch

Only if you think that complying with the law is pedantry.

As my follow-up tried to indicate, the post on which you

And who might "you" be?

I used "you" to refer to the person whose post I was replying to. I am
sorry that was not evident.

How about leaving some context and attribution
in, as per usenet norms?

I thought I had left all the material you posted, omitting only material
from earlier posts and your signature. I am sorry that plus the fact it
was a direct response to your post was not enough.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 18/01/2015 16:20, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past the
school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

They don't pull anybody. They note the numbers of cars that exceed the
speed limit and by how much and pass those to the Police. Persistent
offenders then may get a visit from the Police, who can do no more than
advise them of the dangers of speeding.

The whole thing being a stupid, pointless waste of time and money.


For the price of a couple of high visibility jackets, a clip board and a
radar gun, the Police can avoid having to deal with a whole village
worth of complaints that they are not doing anything about speeding
motorists.

--
Colin Bignell

"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 18/01/2015 16:20, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your
car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past the
school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

They don't pull anybody. They note the numbers of cars that exceed the
speed limit and by how much and pass those to the Police. Persistent
offenders then may get a visit from the Police, who can do no more than
advise them of the dangers of speeding.

The whole thing being a stupid, pointless waste of time and money.


For the price of a couple of high visibility jackets, a clip board and a
radar gun, the Police can avoid having to deal with a whole village worth
of complaints that they are not doing anything about speeding motorists.


So what next? Give the villagers riot shields and extendable truncheons?

--
Adam

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 18/01/15 14:59, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Robin wrote:
They tried to setup one around me for a new 20MPH zone, but I've never
seen it operating in the 20MPH zone, only in the older 30MPH areas.
I suspect they never finished off the 20MPH signage to legal
requirements (in particular, the repeaters or traffic calming measures
required were not implemented, just 20's painted on the road, which I
don't think count for anything).

pedantry_watch

Only if you think that complying with the law is pedantry.



Depends. Pulling people 1mph over the limit would be pedantic, even though
technically still an offence. Not to mention some laws are just stupid and
should not be complied with on principle.

And some are just not feasible to word properly so it make sense
to breach them when its safe to do so and you can't get caught.

On 18/01/2015 16:40, Johny B Good wrote:
....
There's no such thing as being pulled over by the police for being
only 1mph over the posted or implied limit (unless you're referring to
the possibility of being caught by doing 36mph in a 30mph limited
section of road).

Of course you can be pulled over by the Police for doing only 1mph above
the posted limit. However, unless they are running a zero tolerance
campaign on speeding, which sometimes happens, you will not normally be
prosecuted for speeding as a result, if your only offence was speeding.

Indeed, the police (at least the North Wales Police who most
definitely aren't working hand in hand with the Welsh tourist board)
will quite happily annoy motorists who have touched the limit plus 10%
plus 2mph allowances as I discovered a decade or so back.

That is only a guideline, issued by the ACPO, for the point at which, if
speeding is the only offence, prosecution would not normally be
appropriate. It is not a guarantee that you won't be stopped or prosecuted.

Whilst, currently in law, there's no enforcable speed limit below
30mph and signage for 20mph and slower are merely 'advisory',...

I don't know where you get that idea from. There is a general relaxation
allowing an advisory 20mph limit to be associated with a flashing school
crossing signs without the need for a traffic order. However, any 20mph
speed limit or 20mph zone imposed by a traffic order is a statutory
limit and is fully enforceable under the Road Traffic Regulation Act
1984. There are also several vehicles which are limited by their type to
20mph or even 18mph under that Act.

--
Colin Bignell

On 18/01/2015 18:36, ARW wrote:

For the price of a couple of high visibility jackets, a clip board and
a radar gun, the Police can avoid having to deal with a whole village
worth of complaints that they are not doing anything about speeding
motorists.


So what next? Give the villagers riot shields and extendable truncheons?




That tickled me

On 18/01/2015 19:05, john james wrote:

And some are just not feasible to word properly so it make sense
to breach them when its safe to do so and you can't get caught.

So you know why that speed limit is set in that place for everywhere?

In article ,
"Robin" writes:
Apologies for mis-keying leading to premature epostulation

pedantry_watch

I think there's also an exemption from repeater signs if there are
full-size 20 mph signs at every entrance to the controlled roads. That
catches out some visitors here where - although AFAICS there's no
enforcement of the lmit at all.

/pedantry_watch

My reading of the road signs act at the time was that 20MPH limits have
to have either regular 20MPH repeater signs, or traffic calming measures
in order to be enforcible. We have neither. Specifically, the 20 signs
they painted on the road as repeaters don't count.

The requirement for repeaters applies in all cases where the speed limit
is different from what it would be if there are no signs. 20MPH zones are
slightly different in that traffic calming measures designed to limit
speed can be used instead of repeaters.

The police here already said they wouldn't enforce it, but they would
support the council setting up the speedwatch group if they wanted to.

The justification for setting it up was that people were not observing
the 30MPH limit, to which we all said, well why not enforce that then?
It was a typical clueless council initiative, which also run out of
money before they got far enough to make it enforcible anyway.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2015-01-18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 14:59, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Robin wrote:
They tried to setup one around me for a new 20MPH zone, but I've never
seen it operating in the 20MPH zone, only in the older 30MPH areas.
I suspect they never finished off the 20MPH signage to legal
requirements (in particular, the repeaters or traffic calming measures
required were not implemented, just 20's painted on the road, which I
don't think count for anything).

pedantry_watch

Only if you think that complying with the law is pedantry.



Depends. Pulling people 1mph over the limit would be pedantic, even
though technically still an offence. Not to mention some laws are just
stupid and should not be complied with on principle.

Well, quite.

Although I was referring to Robin's comment that it was pedantry to
assume the 20mph limit was invalid because the signage was wrong. The
law applies just as much to the enforcee as it does to the enforced.

Well, in theory, anyway.

And the traffic order specifically said something along the lines that
the new limit only applied once all the correct signage was in place,
which it never has been in this case.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 18/01/2015 19:05, john james wrote:

And some are just not feasible to word properly so it make sense
to breach them when its safe to do so and you can't get caught.

So you know why that speed limit is set in that place for everywhere?

Don’t need to know why that speed limit is set in that place for
everywhere, just why that particular speed limit applies there.
When that is the national speed limit on the open road, it's obvious
why that particular bit of road has that particular speed limit.

Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
For the price of a couple of high visibility jackets, a clip board and a
radar gun, the Police can avoid having to deal with a whole village
worth of complaints that they are not doing anything about speeding
motorists.

Hmm, I wonder if the village could do with a new scarecrow...

Theo

In article ,
Nightjar cpb@ insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past the
school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

They don't pull anybody. They note the numbers of cars that exceed the
speed limit and by how much and pass those to the Police. Persistent
offenders then may get a visit from the Police, who can do no more than
advise them of the dangers of speeding.

They, do, however circulate the registration number to all their patrols,
so those drivers are on a watch list.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling everyone
doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity a bad name.

I a 30mph zone we log those doing over 35. It's up to the police do do
waht they want with the log.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article , ARW
wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-01-18, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your
car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past
the school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling
everyone doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity
a bad name.

They don't pull anybody. They note the numbers of cars that exceed the
speed limit and by how much and pass those to the Police. Persistent
offenders then may get a visit from the Police, who can do no more
than advise them of the dangers of speeding.

The whole thing being a stupid, pointless waste of time and money.


It allows a load of self rightous ****s to act like a god for five
minutes.

Actually we tend to stand in the freezing cold for at least an hour. The
point of speed watch is to deter people from breaking the legal limit. It
does slow down the traffic in our village to something a bit safer for
pedestrians and those trying to cross the road.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article , Nightjar cpb@
insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
On 18/01/2015 16:20, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-18, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 12:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/01/15 11:57, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 18/01/2015 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As per subject!

Do they monitor your broadband speed, or point hair-dryers at your
car?


The latter.


I don't mind if it is taking a real problem like twonks flying past
the school at 40+ (or 30+ in a 20).

But a bunch of curtain twitchers getting excited about pulling
everyone doing 1mph over the posted limit gets this sort of activity
a bad name.

They don't pull anybody. They note the numbers of cars that exceed the
speed limit and by how much and pass those to the Police. Persistent
offenders then may get a visit from the Police, who can do no more
than advise them of the dangers of speeding.

The whole thing being a stupid, pointless waste of time and money.


For the price of a couple of high visibility jackets, a clip board and a
radar gun, the Police can avoid having to deal with a whole village
worth of complaints that they are not doing anything about speeding
motorists.

we had to fund our own Hi-Vis jackets. All the police gave us were a few
waistcoats.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 18/01/2015 20:20, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

My reading of the road signs act at the time was that 20MPH limits have
to have either regular 20MPH repeater signs, or traffic calming measures
in order to be enforcible. We have neither. Specifically, the 20 signs
they painted on the road as repeaters don't count.


Around my way there is a half mile of a 20mph limit with large signs at
either end and average speed cameras to enforce it.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Robin" writes:
Apologies for mis-keying leading to premature epostulation

pedantry_watch

I think there's also an exemption from repeater signs if there are
full-size 20 mph signs at every entrance to the controlled roads.
That catches out some visitors here where - although AFAICS there's
no enforcement of the lmit at all.

/pedantry_watch

My reading of the road signs act at the time was that 20MPH limits
have to have either regular 20MPH repeater signs, or traffic calming
measures in order to be enforcible. We have neither. Specifically,
the 20 signs they painted on the road as repeaters don't count.

The requirement for repeaters applies in all cases where the speed
limit is different from what it would be if there are no signs. 20MPH
zones are slightly different in that traffic calming measures
designed to limit speed can be used instead of repeaters.

Sorry. I was told that repeaters or calming measures were now no longer
compulsory but I think I was misled or mistaken as I can't find
authority for it. I'm certainly not going to die in a ditch over a mix
of legislation and DfT directions which seem designed to maximise
opacity.

But I'd like to offer a point about signs painted in the road which
might explain what I was told and which might be relevant to you i.d.c.

I agree that traffic calming can be used instead of repeaters - and
indeed that traffic calming was intended to be at the heart of 20 mph
zones when they started . But DfT issued Special Directions on 17/10/11
which *seem* to make things more complicated. Eg according to
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3218/area-wide-authorisations-special-directions.pdf
Direction 18(1) "allows traffic authorities to use these roundels [ie in
the road] - when varied to "20" - on the carriageway as an alternative
to upright repeater signs in 20 mph zones. For 20 limits, the marking
may also be placed as an alternative to upright repeater signs; however,
it should be noted that TSRGD requires a minimum of one upright repeater
to diagram 670 to be placed in 20 mph limits - unless the restriction is
shorter than 200 metres in length."

In short, I think signs painted in the road may count - in some circs at
least. And the person whol told me repeater signs weren't necessary may
have had in mind "signs on poles" (which is what we were discussing)
rather than "signs painted in the road".

The police here already said they wouldn't enforce it, but they would
support the council setting up the speedwatch group if they wanted to.

In London the Met have recently started enforcing the limits - eg IIRC
only from October in Islington. But it's clearly not a priority.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 18/01/15 18:36, ARW wrote:

So what next? Give the villagers riot shields and extendable truncheons?



Guns. We want guns. Local rent-a-granny SO19. Boy are the chavs going to
get a shock.