I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer. Sometimes I
have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen cold
tap.

MM

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is lower as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"MM" wrote in message
...
I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer. Sometimes I
have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen cold
tap.

MM

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:55:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is lower as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

I checked my water meter for a few minutes to see whether any leak was
comng from my side, but it was absolutely static.

By the way, that blue plastic mains supply pipe that water companies
use nowadays on new properties, how long does it last?

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:55:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is lower
as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

I checked my water meter for a few minutes to see whether any leak was
comng from my side, but it was absolutely static.

By the way, that blue plastic mains supply pipe that water companies
use nowadays on new properties, how long does it last?

MDPE
Medum density polyethylene
If kept out of sunlight, forever.

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:55:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is lower
as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

I checked my water meter for a few minutes to see whether any leak was
comng from my side, but it was absolutely static.

By the way, that blue plastic mains supply pipe that water companies
use nowadays on new properties, how long does it last?

50 years design life - life expectancy in excess of 100 years.

Sunlight doesn't do it any favours though, so any exposed parts will degrade
quicker than underground pipes, but I should imagine it will still survive
longer than 50 years.

On 14/12/2014 10:15, MM wrote:
I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer. Sometimes I
have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen cold
tap.

That's not something I had noticed.

For info, viscosity is a strong function of temperature that could
explain the reduced flow at lower temperatures.

First google hit:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wa...ity-d_596.html

In article ,
"Phil L" writes:

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:55:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is lower
as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

I checked my water meter for a few minutes to see whether any leak was
comng from my side, but it was absolutely static.

By the way, that blue plastic mains supply pipe that water companies
use nowadays on new properties, how long does it last?

MDPE

50 years design life - life expectancy in excess of 100 years.

Sunlight doesn't do it any favours though, so any exposed parts will degrade
quicker than underground pipes, but I should imagine it will still survive
longer than 50 years.

It's also available in black, which will be somewhat better protected
from UV, but may heat up more in the sun (and yellow, but only for
buried gas mains, not to be confused with the yellow plastic coated
steel, which is sometimes used for gas above ground).

I was a little surprised to see miles of the blue stuff laid across
the surface of the ground in South African game reserves, to supply
water to sparse collections of lodges. I guess there was no chance
of freezing, but the sun is very powerful there. If the elephants
discover what fun it is to pull it around and break it, they might
have to try burying it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2014 10:15, MM wrote:
I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer. Sometimes I
have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen cold
tap.

That's not something I had noticed.

For info, viscosity is a strong function of temperature that could explain
the reduced flow at lower temperatures.

First google hit:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wa...ity-d_596.html

Trouble with that line is that the water temperature doesn't
actually change all that much between summer and winter.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:15:19 +0000, MM wrote:

I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in.

Water pressure reduction round about here is caused by country
dwellers, who have a history of frozen supply pipes, leaving the tap
on a dribble all night. Surprising the cumulative effect it has.

On 14/12/2014 19:28, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2014 10:15, MM wrote:
I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer. Sometimes I
have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen cold
tap.

That's not something I had noticed.

For info, viscosity is a strong function of temperature that could
explain the reduced flow at lower temperatures.

First google hit:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wa...ity-d_596.html


Trouble with that line is that the water temperature doesn't
actually change all that much between summer and winter.

For you it may not, it depends upon the source.

Mine comes from a river supply, and my shower temperature control goes
from 3 in the summer to 7 in the winter with a corresponding lower flow
rate.

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
MM wrote

I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer. Sometimes I
have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen cold
tap.

That's not something I had noticed.

So you arent getting the effect he is.

For info, viscosity is a strong function of temperature that could
explain the reduced flow at lower temperatures.

First google hit:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wa...ity-d_596.html

Trouble with that line is that the water temperature doesn't
actually change all that much between summer and winter.

For you it may not, it depends upon the source.

Not by enough to matter.

Mine comes from a river supply, and my shower temperature control goes
from 3 in the summer to 7 in the winter

That doesn't see the viscosity change significantly.

with a corresponding lower flow rate.

Not because of the viscosity.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 15:48:12 -0000, "Phil L"
wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:55:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is lower
as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

I checked my water meter for a few minutes to see whether any leak was
comng from my side, but it was absolutely static.

By the way, that blue plastic mains supply pipe that water companies
use nowadays on new properties, how long does it last?

50 years design life - life expectancy in excess of 100 years.

Sunlight doesn't do it any favours though, so any exposed parts will degrade
quicker than underground pipes, but I should imagine it will still survive
longer than 50 years.

That's pretty darned impressive, I think. Traditional clay pipes would
probably last literally forever IF not subjected to tree roots or
frost damage. I expect there's loads of examples going back to Roman
times.

MM

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 18:52:32 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Phil L" writes:

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:55:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is lower
as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

I checked my water meter for a few minutes to see whether any leak was
comng from my side, but it was absolutely static.

By the way, that blue plastic mains supply pipe that water companies
use nowadays on new properties, how long does it last?

MDPE

50 years design life - life expectancy in excess of 100 years.

Sunlight doesn't do it any favours though, so any exposed parts will degrade
quicker than underground pipes, but I should imagine it will still survive
longer than 50 years.

It's also available in black, which will be somewhat better protected
from UV, but may heat up more in the sun (and yellow, but only for
buried gas mains, not to be confused with the yellow plastic coated
steel, which is sometimes used for gas above ground).

I was a little surprised to see miles of the blue stuff laid across
the surface of the ground in South African game reserves, to supply
water to sparse collections of lodges. I guess there was no chance
of freezing, but the sun is very powerful there. If the elephants
discover what fun it is to pull it around and break it, they might
have to try burying it.

I suppose it's all down to cost. But short-termism is never a good
idea. If they hadn't had the money to pay for the pipe, then they
wouldn't have been able to lay any pipe. But to my mind, the question
"Can we afford it?" MUST include the costs of doing a proper job.

Or perhaps they're still planning on burying it when they've got some
more ready cash.

MM

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:28:46 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2014 10:15, MM wrote:
I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer. Sometimes I
have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen cold
tap.

That's not something I had noticed.

For info, viscosity is a strong function of temperature that could explain
the reduced flow at lower temperatures.

First google hit:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wa...ity-d_596.html

Trouble with that line is that the water temperature doesn't
actually change all that much between summer and winter.

Wanna bet! That just isn't the case at my house. In the summer the
cold water ~never~ gets cold, even if I wash the car for half an hour.
It's still tepid half an hour later. Also, 30 minutes on the boiler
(heating oil) is more than enough time to get a tank full of piping
hot water in the summer. But in the winter, like now, I have to leave
it on for an hour. And in winter there's no way I could wash the car
(with a sponge) for half an hour, or my hands would be dropping off
with the cold. In fact, I recently bought a long-handled hose brush
just for doing that because the car was getting really dirty due to
the numerous tractors in Lincolnshire leaving mud on the lanes at this
time of the year (cabbages, sprouts, beets etc).

MM

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 21:49:47 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:15:19 +0000, MM wrote:

I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in.

Water pressure reduction round about here is caused by country
dwellers, who have a history of frozen supply pipes, leaving the tap
on a dribble all night. Surprising the cumulative effect it has.

Well I never! That must cost 'em a lot, just wasted. Why not lag the
pipes?

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 18:52:32 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Phil L" writes:

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:55:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is
lower
as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

I checked my water meter for a few minutes to see whether any leak was
comng from my side, but it was absolutely static.

By the way, that blue plastic mains supply pipe that water companies
use nowadays on new properties, how long does it last?

MDPE

50 years design life - life expectancy in excess of 100 years.

Sunlight doesn't do it any favours though, so any exposed parts will
degrade
quicker than underground pipes, but I should imagine it will still
survive
longer than 50 years.

It's also available in black, which will be somewhat better protected
from UV, but may heat up more in the sun (and yellow, but only for
buried gas mains, not to be confused with the yellow plastic coated
steel, which is sometimes used for gas above ground).

I was a little surprised to see miles of the blue stuff laid across
the surface of the ground in South African game reserves, to supply
water to sparse collections of lodges. I guess there was no chance
of freezing, but the sun is very powerful there. If the elephants
discover what fun it is to pull it around and break it, they might
have to try burying it.

I suppose it's all down to cost.

Yes.

But short-termism is never a good idea.

That is just plain wrong.

If they hadn't had the money to pay for the pipe, then they wouldn't
have been able to lay any pipe. But to my mind, the question
"Can we afford it?" MUST include the costs of doing a proper job.

Nope. Clearly the pipe lying on the ground are better than nothing.

Or perhaps they're still planning on burying
it when they've got some more ready cash.

MM wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
MM wrote

I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since
the cold weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all
water companies have a policy to reduce water pressure
in winter when demand is lower (no sprinklers, less car
washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer. Sometimes
I have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen cold
tap.

That's not something I had noticed.

For info, viscosity is a strong function of temperature that
could explain the reduced flow at lower temperatures.

First google hit:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wa...ity-d_596.html

Trouble with that line is that the water temperature doesn't
actually change all that much between summer and winter.

Wanna bet!

Yep.

That just isn't the case at my house.

If that was the cause, you'd have seen the summer/winter effect
at the kitchen tap with all the winters before the most recent one.

In the summer the cold water ~never~ gets cold, even if I
wash the car for half an hour. It's still tepid half an hour later.

Sure, but clearly there hasn't been that water pressure effect previously.

Also, 30 minutes on the boiler (heating oil) is more than enough
time to get a tank full of piping hot water in the summer. But in
the winter, like now, I have to leave it on for an hour.

Sure, but clearly there hasn't been that water pressure effect previously.

And in winter there's no way I could wash the car (with a sponge)
for half an hour, or my hands would be dropping off with the cold.

Sure, but clearly there hasn't been that water pressure effect previously.

In fact, I recently bought a long-handled hose brush just
for doing that because the car was getting really dirty due
to the numerous tractors in Lincolnshire leaving mud on the
lanes at this time of the year (cabbages, sprouts, beets etc).

Sure, but clearly there hasn't been that water pressure effect previously.

MM wrote
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote
MM wrote

I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure
lately, ever since the cold weather kicked in.

Water pressure reduction round about here is caused by country
dwellers, who have a history of frozen supply pipes, leaving the
tap on a dribble all night. Surprising the cumulative effect it has.

Well I never! That must cost 'em a lot, just wasted.

Not if they aren't metered.

Why not lag the pipes?

Because that approach costs nothing if you aren't metered.

On 15/12/2014 08:04, MM wrote:

I was a little surprised to see miles of the blue stuff laid across
the surface of the ground in South African game reserves, to supply
water to sparse collections of lodges. I guess there was no chance
of freezing, but the sun is very powerful there. If the elephants
discover what fun it is to pull it around and break it, they might
have to try burying it.

I suppose it's all down to cost. But short-termism is never a good
idea. If they hadn't had the money to pay for the pipe, then they
wouldn't have been able to lay any pipe. But to my mind, the question
"Can we afford it?" MUST include the costs of doing a proper job.

Or perhaps they're still planning on burying it when they've got some
more ready cash.


digging miles of trenches is disruptive to wild life.

MM

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 15/12/2014 08:04, MM wrote:

I was a little surprised to see miles of the blue stuff laid across
the surface of the ground in South African game reserves, to supply
water to sparse collections of lodges. I guess there was no chance
of freezing, but the sun is very powerful there. If the elephants
discover what fun it is to pull it around and break it, they might
have to try burying it.

I suppose it's all down to cost. But short-termism is never a good
idea. If they hadn't had the money to pay for the pipe, then they
wouldn't have been able to lay any pipe. But to my mind, the question
"Can we afford it?" MUST include the costs of doing a proper job.

Or perhaps they're still planning on burying it when they've got some
more ready cash.


digging miles of trenches is disruptive to wild life.

Not if you put the pipe in them and fill them in again quickly.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 08:11:34 +0000, MM wrote:

Water pressure reduction round about here is caused by country
dwellers, who have a history of frozen supply pipes, leaving the tap
on a dribble all night. Surprising the cumulative effect it has.

Well I never! That must cost 'em a lot, just wasted. Why not lag the
pipes?

No direct water charging, until now.
Also, there's an unfortunate tendency for slipshod builders to bury
the incoming pipe at insufficient depth, which is something you don't
find out about until the ground is had frozen, so many people take
view a few litres (several, many) is worthwhile wasting to avoid the
sheer hassle of blocked pipes for several days.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Phil L" writes:

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:55:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think its true. it could be of course that the pressure is lower
as
there has been a small burst somewhere which has not yet been found or
fixed. In summer less likely to freeze after all.
Brian

I checked my water meter for a few minutes to see whether any leak was
comng from my side, but it was absolutely static.

By the way, that blue plastic mains supply pipe that water companies
use nowadays on new properties, how long does it last?

MDPE

50 years design life - life expectancy in excess of 100 years.

Sunlight doesn't do it any favours though, so any exposed parts will
degrade
quicker than underground pipes, but I should imagine it will still
survive
longer than 50 years.

It's also available in black, which will be somewhat better protected
from UV, but may heat up more in the sun (and yellow, but only for
buried gas mains, not to be confused with the yellow plastic coated
steel, which is sometimes used for gas above ground).

I was a little surprised to see miles of the blue stuff laid across
the surface of the ground in South African game reserves, to supply
water to sparse collections of lodges. I guess there was no chance
of freezing, but the sun is very powerful there. If the elephants
discover what fun it is to pull it around and break it, they might
have to try burying it.


Shoud've been put in with a mole plough.
MDPE lends itself to that.

On 14/12/2014 22:42, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
MM wrote

I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer.
Sometimes I have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it
would
practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen
cold tap.

That's not something I had noticed.

So you arent getting the effect he is.

For info, viscosity is a strong function of temperature that could
explain the reduced flow at lower temperatures.

First google hit:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wa...ity-d_596.html


Trouble with that line is that the water temperature doesn't
actually change all that much between summer and winter.

For you it may not, it depends upon the source.

Not by enough to matter.

Mine comes from a river supply, and my shower temperature control goes
from 3 in the summer to 7 in the winter

That doesn't see the viscosity change significantly.

What would you call significant?

with a corresponding lower flow rate.

Not because of the viscosity.

Assuming water usage constant, and the same pressure at the source by
the water company, is there another cause?

Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
MM wrote

I've noticed a slight drop-off in pressure lately, ever since the
cold
weather kicked in. I wonder whether some/all water companies have a
policy to reduce water pressure in winter when demand is lower (no
sprinklers, less car washing, less swimming pool usage) in order to
avoid leaks.

The water supply is still perecftly adequate, but the flow e.g. from
the kitchen cold tap, is not as forceful as in the summer.

Sometimes I have thought the pressure too HIGH in the summer, as it
would practically take your hand off if you held it under the kitchen
cold tap.

That's not something I had noticed.

So you arent getting the effect he is.

For info, viscosity is a strong function of temperature that could
explain the reduced flow at lower temperatures.

First google hit:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wa...ity-d_596.html

Trouble with that line is that the water temperature doesn't
actually change all that much between summer and winter.

For you it may not, it depends upon the source.

Not by enough to matter.

Mine comes from a river supply, and my shower temperature control goes
from 3 in the summer to 7 in the winter

That doesn't see the viscosity change significantly.

What would you call significant?

Enough to produce the noticeable effect that the OP was talking about.

with a corresponding lower flow rate.

Not because of the viscosity.

Assuming water usage constant,

You can't assume that if significant numbers of people
are letting their outside taps dribble in winter to stop
them from freezing when they aren't being metered.

and the same pressure at the source by the water company,

You can't assume that either. I know ours has deliberately
reduced the water pressure to reduce the number of pipe
failures and its possible the OP has just seen that happen
with his water company and that it isnt actually seasonal.

is there another cause?

See above.