Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.


--
Chris French

On 06/10/2014 11:08, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.


They certainly collect sludge, I put one in following an overhaul but
would not like to say whether they are actually cost effective.

Why is sludge attracted by magnets though?
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 06/10/2014 11:08, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.


They certainly collect sludge, I put one in following an overhaul but
would not like to say whether they are actually cost effective.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Why is sludge attracted by magnets though?
Brian

'cos it's iron sludge from the inside of the steel radiators

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 07/10/2014 08:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Why is sludge attracted by magnets though?
Brian

'cos it's iron sludge from the inside of the steel radiators

Specifically Fe3O4, also known as magnetite for the obvious reason.

In article ,
Chris French writes:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

Probably not a lot of point unless/until you are replacing the boiler.
What did the drained water look like after a year, and did it have
inhibitor (such as X100) left in it for that period?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Chris French writes:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

Probably not a lot of point unless/until you are replacing the boiler.
What did the drained water look like after a year, and did it have
inhibitor (such as X100) left in it for that period?


Well, actually, not drained down yet, planning to do the work in a
couple of days time.

But thinking about it, it'll be worth me firing it up to get water
circulating, and then I can see what it is like when I drain down.

It's had inhibitor in so won't have got any worse, and I don't remember
the water in general being esp. dark when originally drained down last
year

--
Chris French

In article , Chris French
writes
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

I currently have a 'man in' doing a boiler replacement on a house I look
after.

In that situation the boiler mfrs will only guarantee the boiler if a
filter is fitted on the return side. The installer who I like and
appears a font of knowledge in his trade has told me that he cannot
guess which system will be full of crap and which will be clean when he
goes to work on one and I believe him. The system he is working on for
us uses 10mm microbore and has had so many leaks that any inhibitor has
been diluted beyond trace but has showed little or no scale or sludge
and zero blockages. In contrast my own system which uses 15mm separate
plastic feeds to each room and was well dosed with inhibitor has been
dogged with scale and blockages.

My own choice was to fit a simple strainer but they can clog up so if
you have 80 odd quid spare I would consider using a magnetic filter with
a decent capacity.

John Rumm here has suggested the Fernox TF1 whilst my guy convinced us
to use a 2nd generation Magnaclean Pro unit which apparently does not
suffer form the original problems of seal leakage after a year and
complicated cleaning procedures.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Monday, October 6, 2014 8:50:27 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
In article , Chris French
chris writes

Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

I currently have a 'man in' doing a boiler replacement on a house I look
after.
In that situation the boiler mfrs will only guarantee the boiler if a
filter is fitted on the return side. The installer who I like and
appears a font of knowledge in his trade has told me that he cannot
guess which system will be full of crap and which will be clean when he
goes to work on one and I believe him. The system he is working on for
us uses 10mm microbore and has had so many leaks that any inhibitor has
been diluted beyond trace but has showed little or no scale or sludge
and zero blockages. In contrast my own system which uses 15mm separate
plastic feeds to each room and was well dosed with inhibitor has been
dogged with scale and blockages.
My own choice was to fit a simple strainer but they can clog up so if
you have 80 odd quid spare I would consider using a magnetic filter with
a decent capacity.
John Rumm here has suggested the Fernox TF1 whilst my guy convinced us
to use a 2nd generation Magnaclean Pro unit which apparently does not
suffer form the original problems of seal leakage after a year and
complicated cleaning procedures.

Does it really cost £80 to drop a magnet in a can?


NT

On 06/10/2014 21:30, wrote:



My own choice was to fit a simple strainer but they can clog up so if
you have 80 odd quid spare I would consider using a magnetic filter with
a decent capacity.

Does it really cost £80 to drop a magnet in a can?



No that is the price people are (obviously) willing to pay. I bet the
cost is less than a quarter of that.


--
Chris

On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 10:15:40 AM UTC+1, news wrote:
On 06/10/2014 21:30, wrote:

My own choice was to fit a simple strainer but they can clog up so if
you have 80 odd quid spare I would consider using a magnetic filter with
a decent capacity.

Does it really cost £80 to drop a magnet in a can?

No that is the price people are (obviously) willing to pay. I bet the
cost is less than a quarter of that.

A very small percentage are willing to pay. BOM is unlikely to exceed 1/6th retail cost, and with all costs & profit factored in its going to be about half retail at the factory gate.

The point is that for so little hardware we ought to be able to assemble them for much less.


NT

On 07/10/2014 12:32, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 10:15:40 AM UTC+1, news wrote:
On 06/10/2014 21:30, wrote:

My own choice was to fit a simple strainer but they can clog up so if
you have 80 odd quid spare I would consider using a magnetic filter with
a decent capacity.

Does it really cost £80 to drop a magnet in a can?

No that is the price people are (obviously) willing to pay. I bet the
cost is less than a quarter of that.

A very small percentage are willing to pay. BOM is unlikely to exceed 1/6th retail cost, and with all costs & profit factored in its going to be about half retail at the factory gate.

The point is that for so little hardware we ought to be able to assemble them for much less.


NT

To be fair I think they do have those "Rare Earth" extremely strong
magnets in them, which don't come cheap.

--
Chris

On 07/10/2014 12:32, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 10:15:40 AM UTC+1, news wrote:
On 06/10/2014 21:30, wrote:

My own choice was to fit a simple strainer but they can clog up
so if you have 80 odd quid spare I would consider using a
magnetic filter with a decent capacity.

Does it really cost £80 to drop a magnet in a can?

No that is the price people are (obviously) willing to pay. I bet
the cost is less than a quarter of that.

A very small percentage are willing to pay. BOM is unlikely to exceed
1/6th retail cost, and with all costs & profit factored in its going
to be about half retail at the factory gate.

Well this is the foundation for success in business. If they are costing
retail price to make, then they are doing it wrong!


The point is that for so little hardware we ought to be able to
assemble them for much less.

Go on then, let's see yours ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 06/10/2014 21:30, wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 8:50:27 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
In article , Chris French
chris writes

Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

I currently have a 'man in' doing a boiler replacement on a house I look
after.
In that situation the boiler mfrs will only guarantee the boiler if a
filter is fitted on the return side. The installer who I like and
appears a font of knowledge in his trade has told me that he cannot
guess which system will be full of crap and which will be clean when he
goes to work on one and I believe him. The system he is working on for
us uses 10mm microbore and has had so many leaks that any inhibitor has
been diluted beyond trace but has showed little or no scale or sludge
and zero blockages. In contrast my own system which uses 15mm separate
plastic feeds to each room and was well dosed with inhibitor has been
dogged with scale and blockages.
My own choice was to fit a simple strainer but they can clog up so if
you have 80 odd quid spare I would consider using a magnetic filter with
a decent capacity.
John Rumm here has suggested the Fernox TF1 whilst my guy convinced us
to use a 2nd generation Magnaclean Pro unit which apparently does not
suffer form the original problems of seal leakage after a year and
complicated cleaning procedures.

Does it really cost £80 to drop a magnet in a can?


NT

Well it is a pressure container with decent brass isolating valves each
side, and a bleed nipple. It's quite a strong magnet, and stainless
steel clad to prevent corrosion. Mine is quite well designed and made.

On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 11:46:47 AM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 06/10/2014 21:30, wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 8:50:27 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
In article , Chris French
chris writes

Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

Does it really cost £80 to drop a magnet in a can?

Well it is a pressure container with decent brass isolating valves each
side, and a bleed nipple. It's quite a strong magnet, and stainless
steel clad to prevent corrosion. Mine is quite well designed and made.

So 3 valves, a hdd magnet and a copper can.


NT

On 06/10/2014 11:08, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

The Fernox TF1 is a better product IME (there is also a Sentinal one
that looks quite good). Has cyclonic collection as well as magnetic, and
can be drained in situ without dismantling.

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

Older boilers are less fussy about system contamination. New HE ones
however really don't like dirty primary water.

So depending on what you have and what you plan to do, you can probably
assess the need.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 06/10/2014 11:08, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

The Fernox TF1 is a better product IME (there is also a Sentinal one
that looks quite good). Has cyclonic collection as well as magnetic,
and can be drained in situ without dismantling.

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

Older boilers are less fussy about system contamination. New HE ones
however really don't like dirty primary water.

So depending on what you have and what you plan to do, you can probably
assess the need.


Well, it's draining down right now, water seems to be clear.

Boiler is an old floor standing Ideal Mexico with a cast iron heat
exchanger. so I think I'll leave it for now, and worry about it when
ever the boiler is replaced.

Thanks folks,
--
Chris French

On 08/10/2014 09:05, Chris French wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 06/10/2014 11:08, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

The Fernox TF1 is a better product IME (there is also a Sentinal one
that looks quite good). Has cyclonic collection as well as magnetic,
and can be drained in situ without dismantling.

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

Older boilers are less fussy about system contamination. New HE ones
however really don't like dirty primary water.

So depending on what you have and what you plan to do, you can
probably assess the need.


Well, it's draining down right now, water seems to be clear.

Boiler is an old floor standing Ideal Mexico with a cast iron heat
exchanger. so I think I'll leave it for now, and worry about it when
ever the boiler is replaced.

Yup, I would concur. You could probably stuff a small rodent through the
HE of a mexico and it not care much!

When I removed my old Mexico and flushed it, most of the water looked
ok. However when I got to actually mains flushing individual rads in
sequence, it started to look a little less spotless:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...FlushWater.jpg




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 08/10/2014 09:05, Chris French wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 06/10/2014 11:08, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

The Fernox TF1 is a better product IME (there is also a Sentinal one
that looks quite good). Has cyclonic collection as well as magnetic,
and can be drained in situ without dismantling.

System is old (circa 1970's I imagine), never really had any obvious
problems with sludge, not been properly cleaned or flushed, but did give
a good run through with some X400 last year.

Older boilers are less fussy about system contamination. New HE ones
however really don't like dirty primary water.

So depending on what you have and what you plan to do, you can
probably assess the need.


Well, it's draining down right now, water seems to be clear.

Boiler is an old floor standing Ideal Mexico with a cast iron heat
exchanger. so I think I'll leave it for now, and worry about it when
ever the boiler is replaced.

Yup, I would concur. You could probably stuff a small rodent through
the HE of a mexico and it not care much!


Might be a handy way of cleaning it out if it ever needed it ? :-)

When I removed my old Mexico and flushed it, most of the water looked
ok. However when I got to actually mains flushing individual rads in
sequence, it started to look a little less spotless:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...FlushWater.jpg


Yeah, I've removed a couple of the rads and they have had nice black
water come out of them, but it mostly seems to stay in the rads, rather
than be circulating in the system.

Not sure I could ever face individually flushing out all the rads (22)
on ours system though if I ever had to.
--
Chris French

In article , John
Rumm writes
On 06/10/2014 11:08, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

The Fernox TF1 is a better product IME (there is also a Sentinal one
that looks quite good). Has cyclonic collection as well as magnetic, and
can be drained in situ without dismantling.

The Magnaclean Pro 2 claims to have ironed out the bugs of the first
generation product. I've just supervised a new boiler install and the
installer convinced me to go with one as it was their regular fit
(moderate sized outfit so a reasonable installed base). It has the
in-line fit and built in isolators of the TF1 so it is certainly
improved in that respect.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 08/10/2014 18:12, fred wrote:
In article , John
Rumm writes
On 06/10/2014 11:08, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

The Fernox TF1 is a better product IME (there is also a Sentinal one
that looks quite good). Has cyclonic collection as well as magnetic, and
can be drained in situ without dismantling.

The Magnaclean Pro 2 claims to have ironed out the bugs of the first
generation product. I've just supervised a new boiler install and the
installer convinced me to go with one as it was their regular fit
(moderate sized outfit so a reasonable installed base). It has the
in-line fit and built in isolators of the TF1 so it is certainly
improved in that respect.

Yup for clarification, I have not seen the new magnaclean so can't
comment on that. My observation was based on the original one where you
had to undo the can part to clean it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, October 6, 2014 11:08:26 AM UTC+1, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters - eg a Magnaclean?

I think it's a Magnaclean one which is a Screwfix Deal of the Day some time next week (w/c 13 Oct) - it was on the DotD predictor earlier, but Screwfix appeared to have removed next week's deals from the source code at the moment.

Owain

On Monday, October 6, 2014 11:08:26 AM UTC+1, Chris French wrote:
Just about to put in 3 new rads on the CH system, wondering whilst it's
drained down if it is worth putting in one of those magnetic sludge
filters

I fitted one and it certainly collects sludge. It's not just a column of magnets but also a centrifugal separator so non-magnetic sludge gets separated and collected as well.

What prompted me to install it was having to replace the HW heat exchanger in the (fairly new) boiler because it had got clogged with tiny rusty flakes from the steel radiators. No further problems since I fitted filter.

Chris French wrote:

wondering whilst it's drained down if it is worth putting in one of
those magnetic sludge filters - eg a Magnaclean?

I think you decided against retrofitting one, but to anyone else
thinking about one, the SF deal predictor says Wednesday is the day to
buy (it seems a reasonable bargain, £10 cheaper than Mr Central Heating).

/
I think you decided against retrofitting one, but to anyone else
thinking about one, the SF deal predictor says Wednesday is the day to
buy (it seems a reasonable bargain, £10 cheaper than Mr Central Heating)/q

Wickes have one v similar? at 86 quid currently...

http://www.wickes.co.uk/PRO2-MagnaCl...22mm/p/118632?

Jim K