Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system
Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.
Don't require auto start or anything posh.

I understand that it needs a changeover switch., but what else?

Note. I will not be doing this myself I have a trained person
available.

This is a photo of the fitting space available (ca 30cm x 30cm) and
layout of the consumer unit/meter area.

http://1drv.ms/1vkopyn

Your comments/observations would be welcome.
--

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as
members. Groucho Marx

In article , Scraggy
scribeth thus
Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system
Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.
Don't require auto start or anything posh.

I understand that it needs a changeover switch., but what else?

Note. I will not be doing this myself I have a trained person
available.

This is a photo of the fitting space available (ca 30cm x 30cm) and
layout of the consumer unit/meter area.

http://1drv.ms/1vkopyn

Your comments/observations would be welcome.



You MUST have a changeover switch that is inline from the generator and
the mains supply incomer so that when you are on mains no connection is
possible to the generator i.e. you do not want mains going to the
gennie!.

And VERY important when the mains power is off-line you MUST NOT let
your generator power go down the mains incomer in case it electrocutes
anyone working on the mains power lines.

A changeover switch of the right type is required like these here.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...itchgear_Index
/Change_Over_Switches/

Automatic ones exist that can sense the mains going off and start the
gennie switchover to the mains then re-connect the mains when that comes
back online and then will turn the gennie off..

This company makes a range of modules that do just that.

http://www.gencontrol.co.uk/



I would hope that anyone doing this work for you would know all that
already;!..
--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:59:14 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

And VERY important when the mains power is off-line you MUST NOT let
your generator power go down the mains incomer in case it electrocutes
anyone working on the mains power lines.

This also includes any earth supplied by the DNO. When there is a
supply fault you cannot rely on the state of the supply earth.

So if you are connecting into the house wiring you *have* to supply
your own earth for the house wiring and an earth for one phase of the
gensets alternator(*) that is also bonded to the chassis of the
genset. As getting low enough earth loop impedances can be tricky and
making sure they remain low, I'm pretty sure that the regs will
mandate an RCD at the generators output. Possibly 100 mA time delayed
*if* there is other shock protection down stream. If not it will have
to be a 30 mA normal RCD to provide shock protection.

Trying to use the house wiring opens up a very large can of worms.
TBH it's easier to have the genset phases floating wrt to earth, run
extension cables to the bits of kit that need maintaining
(fridges/freezers/heating system/fish tank) and (optionally but
useful) have an RCD at the generator, so if there is an imbalance on
the phases the power is cut.

No need to install/maintain local earth connections etc.

(*) The alternators produce two balanced phases 180 degrees apart
isolated from the gensets chassis and earth. There is a nominal 240 V
between them. If either phase happens to contact earth due to a fault
or person touching it that phase is pulled down close to that earth
potential and thus presents a much reduced shock hazard. Just like
the 110 V balanced supply as used on building sites. Of course the
other phase has now risen to 240 V above the earth and if you come
into contact with that (second fault) ... OUCH!

--
Cheers
Dave.

Yes, I remember the 3 day week and some of the shenanigans we got up to to
keep production going. It was an interesting time...
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:59:14 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

And VERY important when the mains power is off-line you MUST NOT let
your generator power go down the mains incomer in case it electrocutes
anyone working on the mains power lines.

This also includes any earth supplied by the DNO. When there is a
supply fault you cannot rely on the state of the supply earth.

So if you are connecting into the house wiring you *have* to supply
your own earth for the house wiring and an earth for one phase of the
gensets alternator(*) that is also bonded to the chassis of the
genset. As getting low enough earth loop impedances can be tricky and
making sure they remain low, I'm pretty sure that the regs will
mandate an RCD at the generators output. Possibly 100 mA time delayed
*if* there is other shock protection down stream. If not it will have
to be a 30 mA normal RCD to provide shock protection.

Trying to use the house wiring opens up a very large can of worms.
TBH it's easier to have the genset phases floating wrt to earth, run
extension cables to the bits of kit that need maintaining
(fridges/freezers/heating system/fish tank) and (optionally but
useful) have an RCD at the generator, so if there is an imbalance on
the phases the power is cut.

No need to install/maintain local earth connections etc.

(*) The alternators produce two balanced phases 180 degrees apart
isolated from the gensets chassis and earth. There is a nominal 240 V
between them. If either phase happens to contact earth due to a fault
or person touching it that phase is pulled down close to that earth
potential and thus presents a much reduced shock hazard. Just like
the 110 V balanced supply as used on building sites. Of course the
other phase has now risen to 240 V above the earth and if you come
into contact with that (second fault) ... OUCH!

--
Cheers
Dave.

I've often wondered what powers the changeover switches on the auto ones as
during operation, presumably, there is no power from anywhere, batteries?

Also, I'd not want to have a substantial generator inside the house or even
too close due to the annoying noise.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Scraggy
scribeth thus
Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system
Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.
Don't require auto start or anything posh.

I understand that it needs a changeover switch., but what else?

Note. I will not be doing this myself I have a trained person
available.

This is a photo of the fitting space available (ca 30cm x 30cm) and
layout of the consumer unit/meter area.

http://1drv.ms/1vkopyn

Your comments/observations would be welcome.



You MUST have a changeover switch that is inline from the generator and
the mains supply incomer so that when you are on mains no connection is
possible to the generator i.e. you do not want mains going to the
gennie!.

And VERY important when the mains power is off-line you MUST NOT let
your generator power go down the mains incomer in case it electrocutes
anyone working on the mains power lines.

A changeover switch of the right type is required like these here.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...itchgear_Index
/Change_Over_Switches/

Automatic ones exist that can sense the mains going off and start the
gennie switchover to the mains then re-connect the mains when that comes
back online and then will turn the gennie off..

This company makes a range of modules that do just that.

http://www.gencontrol.co.uk/



I would hope that anyone doing this work for you would know all that
already;!..
--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:50:16 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I've often wondered what powers the changeover switches on the auto ones
as during operation, presumably, there is no power from anywhere,
batteries?

One easy idea. When moving switch to mains mode tension a spring and
set a latch that is held by a solenoid. Lose power, latch releases,
spring operates switch.

But auto switch over to do well and without risking connected
equipment is much more complicated than throwing a switch and
starting a genset. There really needs to be a UPS to maintain the
connected quipment whilst the generator starts and runs up to speed
before being connected to the mains in of the UPS. It may or may not
need to sync with the UPS output depending on the type of UPS, online
or offlline.

Also, I'd not want to have a substantial generator inside the house or
even too close due to the annoying noise.

There are generators and generators.

FO noisey ones like my 2 kVA single cylinder diesel open frame
jobbie, it's almost impossible to hold a conversation next to it. To
mobile 160 kVA twinsets that just quietly hum to themselves even at
full chat on both sets. Not that you'd run both sets at full chat at
the same time. The idea is that they synchronously load share most of
the time but if one dies the other seamlessly takes over. I'd like to
see what happens when you suddenly drop 80 kVA onto a set...

http://www.ftvs.co.uk/page4.html

The twinsets, as far as Film/TV generators are concerned, are quite
noisey, some you can't tell if they are running without touching them
to feel for vibration.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:50:16 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I've often wondered what powers the changeover switches on the auto ones
as during operation, presumably, there is no power from anywhere,
batteries?

Also, I'd not want to have a substantial generator inside the house or
even too close due to the annoying noise.
Brian

There are several ways. The most common is to let the mains supply hold
the mains switch in then use the generator supply to close the generator
switch. For supplies up to 100A or so it's quite common to use
mechanically interlocked contactors for the switches. They are relatively
cheap and cheerful. If the generator is given the signal to start on
mains failure that gives a nice delay between the mains going off and the
generator coming on line. Going the other way it's usual to run a timer
from the mains supply - in case it's just blipped on. The timer would
open the generator switch then close the mains switch.

In message , tony sayer
writes

You MUST have a changeover switch that is inline from the generator and
the mains supply incomer so that when you are on mains no connection is
possible to the generator i.e. you do not want mains going to the
gennie!.

Let me say first that I do not have a generator, and have no plans to
buy one. Reading Tony's paragraph above, I can quite see that one would
not want mains power feeding the generator, or the generator feeding
power out beyond the house.

So, in the event of a power cut, why not just turn off the incoming
mains before starting the generator, and then stop the generator before
turning the mains on again? In other words, if the main switch stops
power coming in, why wouldn't it stop power going out? Yes, I'm
ignoring earthing issues for simplicity.
--
Graeme

On 30/09/14 08:58, News wrote:
In message , tony sayer
writes

You MUST have a changeover switch that is inline from the generator and
the mains supply incomer so that when you are on mains no connection is
possible to the generator i.e. you do not want mains going to the
gennie!.

Let me say first that I do not have a generator, and have no plans to
buy one. Reading Tony's paragraph above, I can quite see that one would
not want mains power feeding the generator, or the generator feeding
power out beyond the house.

So, in the event of a power cut, why not just turn off the incoming
mains before starting the generator, and then stop the generator before
turning the mains on again? In other words, if the main switch stops
power coming in, why wouldn't it stop power going out? Yes, I'm
ignoring earthing issues for simplicity.

Because it's not implicitly safe. One day someone will start up the
generator without disengaging the main supply switch. This will be day
mains has failed because your service cable got chopped in half by a
road gang outside.

It's always the most unlikley *never can happen* combinations of
circumstances that cause accidents - read some of the railway RAIB
reports...

In article , News
scribeth thus
In message , tony sayer
writes

You MUST have a changeover switch that is inline from the generator and
the mains supply incomer so that when you are on mains no connection is
possible to the generator i.e. you do not want mains going to the
gennie!.

Let me say first that I do not have a generator, and have no plans to
buy one. Reading Tony's paragraph above, I can quite see that one would
not want mains power feeding the generator, or the generator feeding
power out beyond the house.

So, in the event of a power cut, why not just turn off the incoming
mains before starting the generator, and then stop the generator before
turning the mains on again? In other words, if the main switch stops
power coming in, why wouldn't it stop power going out? Yes, I'm
ignoring earthing issues for simplicity.

Because people being the way they are and prone to faults in the logic
can let the genny be connected to the mains incoming hence the
interlocked changeover switch..
--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:48:00 +0100, Scraggy
wrote:

Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system
Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.
Don't require auto start or anything posh.

I understand that it needs a changeover switch., but what else?

Note. I will not be doing this myself I have a trained person
available.

This is a photo of the fitting space available (ca 30cm x 30cm) and
layout of the consumer unit/meter area.

http://1drv.ms/1vkopyn

Your comments/observations would be welcome.

First thing I can tell you is this:

The use of small emergency/leisure ICE powered generators for
anything more demanding than powering a few lightbulbs, a small fridge
and a portable telly or two with satellite RX box at a remote off grid
location can result in some surprising problems over and above the
(aught to damn well be bleedin' obvious) issues of safety regarding
connecting into a house supply, 'earthing' and preventing backpowering
your local grid connection that has suffered an outage due to a local
fault your side of the substation (a wider area outage on the network
side of the substation will cause an overload on your poxy generator
which will trip the circuit breaker - if it doesn't trip, then the
engine will stall and if it doesn't stall, the generator will simply
burn out in a matter of minutes if not seconds.

Assuming you make all the correct connection arrangements and follow
the rules regarding safe practice, you can then start to deal with the
all the other various operational problems that can arise.

Rather than try and re-iterate them here, I offer this link to a
posting I made in uk.tech.digital-tv just over ten months ago (post
#5)

http://www.digitaltvbanter.co.uk/uk-tech-digital-tv-digital/32560-tot-petrol-generators.html

I think I managed to cover pretty well _everything_ you'd need to be
aware of when choosing a genset.

HTH & HAND
--
J B Good

In article , johnny-b-
says...

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:48:00 +0100, Scraggy
wrote:

Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system
Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.
Don't require auto start or anything posh.

I understand that it needs a changeover switch., but what else?

Note. I will not be doing this myself I have a trained person
available.

This is a photo of the fitting space available (ca 30cm x 30cm) and
layout of the consumer unit/meter area.

http://1drv.ms/1vkopyn

Your comments/observations would be welcome.

First thing I can tell you is this:

The use of small emergency/leisure ICE powered generators for
anything more demanding than powering a few lightbulbs, a small fridge
and a portable telly or two with satellite RX box at a remote off grid

I use one of these
http://www.tooled-up.com/product/sdm...c-start-quiet-
suitcase-inverter-petrol-generator-3-kw-with-yamaha-mz171-engine/198607/

3kW - can power a kettle
inverter - can power computers
electric start (wife/parents-in-law can start it)
quietish

and tlc changeover switch

BruceB wrote:

http://www.tooled-up.com/product/sdm...c-start-quiet-
suitcase-inverter-petrol-generator-3-kw-with-yamaha-mz171-engine/198607/

Or, more succinctly

http://tooled-up.com/product/g/198607

On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:06:07 +0100, BruceB wrote:

In article , johnny-b-
says...

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:48:00 +0100, Scraggy
wrote:

Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system
Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.
Don't require auto start or anything posh.

I understand that it needs a changeover switch., but what else?

Note. I will not be doing this myself I have a trained person
available.

This is a photo of the fitting space available (ca 30cm x 30cm) and
layout of the consumer unit/meter area.

http://1drv.ms/1vkopyn

Your comments/observations would be welcome.

First thing I can tell you is this:

The use of small emergency/leisure ICE powered generators for
anything more demanding than powering a few lightbulbs, a small fridge
and a portable telly or two with satellite RX box at a remote off grid

I use one of these
http://www.tooled-up.com/product/sdm...c-start-quiet-
suitcase-inverter-petrol-generator-3-kw-with-yamaha-mz171-engine/198607/

3kW - can power a kettle
inverter - can power computers
electric start (wife/parents-in-law can start it)
quietish

and tlc changeover switch


That's about a thousand quid dearer than the cheapest 3KW inverter
genset I saw when I was researching the pricing nearly a year back. It
didn't have electric start or a changeover switch but at a thousand
quid price premium for the luxury of electric start, that's one luxury
I'm happy enough to forgo.

Even so, 800 odd quid for even a cheap inverter unit is a
considerable investment against a prolonged outage that so far has
failed to materialise over the past 30 odd years (although we did
suffer a 3 or 4 hour outage over 25 years ago due to a faulty
underground cable joint).

Another round of searching produced this result:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/constantpowersolutionsltd?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

There are a couple of 3.5KW peak/3KW max continuous inverter suitcase
gensets. The 750 quid (+VAT?) offers remote start (electric start one
might reasonably assume) and has display for run hours and
voltage/current/KW. The 550 quid unit appears to forego the luxury of
remote start and a run hours display panel.

This seems to be about as cheap as it gets for new unused inverter
gensets. I'd be only too happy to be proved wrong in this regard. :-)

I can't speak for the reputation of this company, CPS, which appears
to be based somewhere in the UK. As with any traders on E-bay, you
need to dig a little deeper than just simply relying upon 100%
positive feedback ratings.

It's just a little disconcerting to see that a lot, if not most, have
a "or best offer" auction price option. The 750 quid unit, btw, has 25
days and 17 hours left to go.

Why would a manufacturer even consider selling below their normal
retail price? If the bidders are canny enough to wait until the last
second to put in a single winning bid, they could find themselves
honour bound to sell it for less than half price. If their product is
any good, they're way cheaper than the competition afaict.

Oh, btw, what is a " tlc changeover switch"?
--
J B Good

In message , Johny B Good
writes

It's just a little disconcerting to see that a lot, if not most, have
a "or best offer" auction price option. The 750 quid unit, btw, has 25
days and 17 hours left to go.

Why would a manufacturer even consider selling below their normal
retail price?

Marketing? Trying to encourage someone to buy from you rather than
another seller - maybe they got a good deal on those gennys?

There are lots of times when someone will offer a discount on a product.

On Ebay, I tend to see it as a way to encourage someone to offer on your
product, with the assumption that they will end up buying yours even if
the offer price is a only a little lower

If the bidders are canny enough to wait until the last
second to put in a single winning bid, they could find themselves
honour bound to sell it for less than half price. If their product is
any good, they're way cheaper than the competition afaict.


It's an offer, not a bid - the seller is not bound to accept an offer.

Oh, btw, what is a " tlc changeover switch"?

One that makes you a cup of tea and says 'there. there, dear'?

Or more likely, one purchased from TLC.
--
Chris French

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:39:39 +0100, Chris French
wrote:

In message , Johny B Good
writes

It's just a little disconcerting to see that a lot, if not most, have
a "or best offer" auction price option. The 750 quid unit, btw, has 25
days and 17 hours left to go.

Why would a manufacturer even consider selling below their normal
retail price?

Marketing? Trying to encourage someone to buy from you rather than
another seller - maybe they got a good deal on those gennys?

You're implying that CPS _aren't_ the manufacturers but simply an
importer of rebadged product. You may be right about that which is an
important consideration when you're hoping the company is an actual UK
manufacturer able to offer a better after sales service.


There are lots of times when someone will offer a discount on a product.

On new kit, it's either a 'bulk discount' or else the product is
about to be EoLed. If it's a middleman operation by a reseller, it's
usually to clear out slow moving inventory.


On Ebay, I tend to see it as a way to encourage someone to offer on your
product, with the assumption that they will end up buying yours even if
the offer price is a only a little lower.

As long as the potential customer thinks the quality is going to be
on a par with similar, higher priced product, that's true enough.


If the bidders are canny enough to wait until the last
second to put in a single winning bid, they could find themselves
honour bound to sell it for less than half price. If their product is
any good, they're way cheaper than the competition afaict.


It's an offer, not a bid - the seller is not bound to accept an offer.

It was the "25 days and 17 hours left to go" which led me to assume
it was an 'auction'. I didn't bother clicking the "make an offer"
link to delve any deeper.


Oh, btw, what is a " tlc changeover switch"?

One that makes you a cup of tea and says 'there. there, dear'?

The use of lower case does fit in with that hypothesis I suppose. :-)

The way it was tacked onto the end of the genset's useful attributes,
I thought it might have been a supplied 'accessory' item.


Or more likely, one purchased from TLC.

That makes more sense. I've just googled TLC and the first and only
hit points to an electrical company of that name. A quick perusal of
the switches and sockets selection fails to find any suitable
changeover switches. Perhaps I'd have to order a catalogue before
there's any chance of tracking one down (I'm not prepared to go to
that extreme just to satisfy idle curiousity).

I had to do a google search for the SDMO IPRO 3000E to find what the
actual continious max power output rating. It isn't a full 3KW, it's
2.8KW but it aught to cope with a 3KW at 240v electric kettle even if
it manages to supply the full 230v to the kettle (2.755KW load at
230v). When I was testing with that Aldi 2.8KVA genset, it just about
managed to power a 3KW kettle by virtue of the extra volt drop in the
cable taking the kettle voltage down to 221v (2.54KW). Istr the Aldi
genset had a max continuous rating of 2.5KW with the 2.8KVA being the
very short term peak.

The CPS unit looks more attractive with its peak of 3.5KW and max
continuous of 3KW but, even at 550 quid, that's an awfully large
investment for something that might only be test run 2 or 3 times a
year and never get used in anger for many years to come.

If Aldi ever did get round to selling a 3KVA inverter type genset for
300 odd quid or thereabouts, I might well be tempted but, for now,
it's a case of waiting for the opportunity to snatch one up at a
bargain, never to be repeated price.
--
J B Good

"Scraggy" wrote in message
...
Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system


Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.

Not allowed - it would be unsafe - unless just feeding some appliances with
extension leads from the genny.

So a 5.5kW genny will give you about 23A max to play with. That should be
enough to keep you going for a while and allow you to boil a kettle and
leave the lights, central heating and the TV on and still keep fridge going
for cold beers. What more could you want?

You will need a hard wired set up with an earth rod or two. That's a piece
of **** - it's called hammering an earth rod into the ground and is very
similar to hammering a nail into a piece of wood. Best done on a lawn etc
and not a concrete driveway. Probably a 30mA RCD mains unit for the genny
and a 100A changeover switch

Where do you plan to run the genny? It will need to be waterproof or
undercover and as far away as possible from the bedroom window if you want
to sleep at night with the CH on.


--
Adam

On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:43:07 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

"Scraggy" wrote in message
.. .
Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system


Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.

Not allowed - it would be unsafe - unless just feeding some appliances with
extension leads from the genny.

So a 5.5kW genny will give you about 23A max to play with. That should be
enough to keep you going for a while and allow you to boil a kettle and
leave the lights, central heating and the TV on and still keep fridge going
for cold beers. What more could you want?

You will need a hard wired set up with an earth rod or two. That's a piece
of **** - it's called hammering an earth rod into the ground and is very
similar to hammering a nail into a piece of wood. Best done on a lawn etc
and not a concrete driveway. Probably a 30mA RCD mains unit for the genny
and a 100A changeover switch

Where do you plan to run the genny? It will need to be waterproof or
undercover and as far away as possible from the bedroom window if you want
to sleep at night with the CH on.

A very public "Thank you" for your help mate. I sit here, a fully
equipped power station.
Cold beer, CH, light and a roast dinner.
Do your worst national grid.
--

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as
members. Groucho Marx

"Scraggy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:43:07 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

"Scraggy" wrote in message
. ..
Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system


Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.

Not allowed - it would be unsafe - unless just feeding some appliances
with
extension leads from the genny.

So a 5.5kW genny will give you about 23A max to play with. That should be
enough to keep you going for a while and allow you to boil a kettle and
leave the lights, central heating and the TV on and still keep fridge
going
for cold beers. What more could you want?

You will need a hard wired set up with an earth rod or two. That's a piece
of **** - it's called hammering an earth rod into the ground and is very
similar to hammering a nail into a piece of wood. Best done on a lawn etc
and not a concrete driveway. Probably a 30mA RCD mains unit for the genny
and a 100A changeover switch

Where do you plan to run the genny? It will need to be waterproof or
undercover and as far away as possible from the bedroom window if you want
to sleep at night with the CH on.

A very public "Thank you" for your help mate. I sit here, a fully
equipped power station.
Cold beer, CH, light and a roast dinner.

Do your worst national grid.

They will. I believe that if it is a cold winter then there is very big
chance things will go tit's up.


You'll need a shotgun to keep the neighbours away when they get desperate
and venture out of their houses after 48 hours without a working TV.



--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Scraggy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:43:07 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

"Scraggy" wrote in message
...
Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system


Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.

Not allowed - it would be unsafe - unless just feeding some appliances
with
extension leads from the genny.

So a 5.5kW genny will give you about 23A max to play with. That should be
enough to keep you going for a while and allow you to boil a kettle and
leave the lights, central heating and the TV on and still keep fridge
going
for cold beers. What more could you want?

You will need a hard wired set up with an earth rod or two. That's a
piece
of **** - it's called hammering an earth rod into the ground and is very
similar to hammering a nail into a piece of wood. Best done on a lawn etc
and not a concrete driveway. Probably a 30mA RCD mains unit for the genny
and a 100A changeover switch

Where do you plan to run the genny? It will need to be waterproof or
undercover and as far away as possible from the bedroom window if you
want
to sleep at night with the CH on.

A very public "Thank you" for your help mate. I sit here, a fully
equipped power station.
Cold beer, CH, light and a roast dinner.

Do your worst national grid.

They will. I believe that if it is a cold winter then there is very big
chance things will go tit's up.

I doubt it. The most that might happen is scheduled
shut downs of particular areas for specified times if just
forcing the big load users to shut down isnt enough.

And they wont turn a particular area off for long enough
so that the stuff in the fridges and freezers goes bad either.

You'll need a shotgun to keep the neighbours away when they get desperate
and venture out of their houses after 48 hours without a working TV.

How odd that that didn't happen the last time and they wont
leave the power off for anything like that long anyway, it makes
a lot more sense to leave a particular area off only long enough
so you don't see whats in the fridges and freezers go bad.

The most you might well see is a run
on TVs that don't need mains power.

"Rod Speed" wrote in
:



"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Scraggy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:43:07 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

"Scraggy" wrote in message
m...
Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment.
You know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak
Weather/terrorist strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some
cheap 1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man
nor beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something
bigger then an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write,
somewhat diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system


Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required
rather than perm/semi-perm cable into house.

Not allowed - it would be unsafe - unless just feeding some
appliances with
extension leads from the genny.

So a 5.5kW genny will give you about 23A max to play with. That
should be enough to keep you going for a while and allow you to boil
a kettle and leave the lights, central heating and the TV on and
still keep fridge going
for cold beers. What more could you want?

You will need a hard wired set up with an earth rod or two. That's a
piece
of **** - it's called hammering an earth rod into the ground and is
very similar to hammering a nail into a piece of wood. Best done on
a lawn etc and not a concrete driveway. Probably a 30mA RCD mains
unit for the genny and a 100A changeover switch

Where do you plan to run the genny? It will need to be waterproof or
undercover and as far away as possible from the bedroom window if
you want
to sleep at night with the CH on.

A very public "Thank you" for your help mate. I sit here, a fully
equipped power station.
Cold beer, CH, light and a roast dinner.

Do your worst national grid.

They will. I believe that if it is a cold winter then there is very
big chance things will go tit's up.

I doubt it. The most that might happen is scheduled
shut downs of particular areas for specified times if just
forcing the big load users to shut down isnt enough.

And they wont turn a particular area off for long enough
so that the stuff in the fridges and freezers goes bad either.

You'll need a shotgun to keep the neighbours away when they get
desperate and venture out of their houses after 48 hours without a
working TV.

How odd that that didn't happen the last time and they wont
leave the power off for anything like that long anyway, it makes
a lot more sense to leave a particular area off only long enough
so you don't see whats in the fridges and freezers go bad.

The most you might well see is a run
on TVs that don't need mains power.



Remind me - How many homes can a wind turbine not power when there is no
wind?

"ARW" writes:

"Scraggy" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:43:07 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

"Scraggy" wrote in message
...
Greetings one and all.

I am an occasional lurker and thought it might be good to get
opinions.

As I was adjusting my foil hat t'other day I had a whatif moment. You
know the sort of thing, Zombie Apocalypse/WW3/Freak Weather/terrorist
strike on the national grid etc

This was caused by someone in another place highlighting some cheap
1100w gennys.

I realised at once that 1100 is, effectively no real use to man nor
beast and if I were to invest my hard earned in something bigger then
an ad hoc approach may well not be the way forward.

I took advice from a denizen of t'internet who suggested that a
posting here might help firm up ideas which are, as I write, somewhat
diaphanous in nature.

My, based on nothing much, wish list;

Generator ca 5500 elect start.
Ability to run generator from time to time to change fuel/ check
system


Quite happy to run cable from Gen to input point as required rather
than perm/semi-perm cable into house.

Not allowed - it would be unsafe - unless just feeding some appliances
with
extension leads from the genny.

So a 5.5kW genny will give you about 23A max to play with. That should be
enough to keep you going for a while and allow you to boil a kettle and
leave the lights, central heating and the TV on and still keep fridge
going
for cold beers. What more could you want?

You will need a hard wired set up with an earth rod or two. That's a piece
of **** - it's called hammering an earth rod into the ground and is very
similar to hammering a nail into a piece of wood. Best done on a lawn etc
and not a concrete driveway. Probably a 30mA RCD mains unit for the genny
and a 100A changeover switch

Where do you plan to run the genny? It will need to be waterproof or
undercover and as far away as possible from the bedroom window if you want
to sleep at night with the CH on.

A very public "Thank you" for your help mate. I sit here, a fully
equipped power station.
Cold beer, CH, light and a roast dinner.

Do your worst national grid.

They will. I believe that if it is a cold winter then there is very big
chance things will go tit's up.


You'll need a shotgun to keep the neighbours away when they get desperate
and venture out of their houses after 48 hours without a working TV.

Especially when nearing the end of the football season.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost