There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past year. One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the stairwell. Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when the door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a month or two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter on the floor on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there was no specific cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga bout that. However, I would be shocked if there was even the slightest thought of cleaning the stairwell.

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day. This was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the residue that can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to use the stairwell for exercise? This question is relevant to highrises in general because with that many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire having occured and pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high. Likely proportional to the age of the building.

wrote:
There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past year.
One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke that it was
hard to find his way through the hallway to the stairwell.

If there was a 1 hour fire check door fitted to the flat - then he should
have stayed in the flat until the fire brigade arrived.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted with 1 hour
fire check doors to the main apartment access and internal rooms so that the
occupants can be safely rescued in the event of a fire.

Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when the
door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a month or
two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter on the floor
on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there was no specific
cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga bout that. However, I
would be shocked if there was even the slightest thought of cleaning
the stairwell.

If the fire was that bad, then there would have been some very noticeable
smoke damage in the stairwell that would most certainly have needed cleaning
off - or even redecoratig after the clean up.

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day. This
was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the residue that
can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to use the stairwell
for exercise?

Please supply the link[s] to the information that you were reading.

If the residue was that bad, would it be unwise to use the stairwell for
access to the flats until the it had been cleaned? if that was the case,
then the tenants (including yourself) would have been temporarily rehoused.

This question is relevant to highrises in general
because with that many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire
having occured and pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high.
Likely proportional to the age of the building.

And that is one of the reasons you should stay in your flat, behind the 1
hour fire check front door and internal doors and wait for the fire brigade
to arrive to assist your escape.

The only exception to this is if the fire is in your flat and your life is
in danger, then you should shut all the doors inside it, exit the flat and
shut the front door and use the nearest fire escape (not the lifts if
fitted).

This reduces the effects of smoke and fumes in the stairwells.

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:22:23 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past
year. One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke
that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the
stairwell.

If there was a 1 hour fire check door fitted to the flat - then he
should have stayed in the flat until the fire brigade arrived.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted with
1 hour fire check doors to the main apartment access and internal
rooms so that the occupants can be safely rescued in the event of a
fire.

Sorry, I don't follow your remark about the 1 hour fire check door.
Even if it was true, my concern is that the smoke billowed into the
hallways as to make it difficult to even find the way to the
stairwell, and entered the stairewell when the tenants on that floor
took the stairwell.

Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when
the door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a month
or two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter on the
floor on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there was no
specific cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga bout that.
However, I would be shocked if there was even the slightest thought
of cleaning the stairwell.

If the fire was that bad, then there would have been some very
noticeable smoke damage in the stairwell that would most certainly
have needed cleaning off - or even redecoratig after the clean up.

My concern is the info out there relating to smoke damage.
Apparently, it coats everything, not necessarily in an apparent way.
Sometimes filmy, sometimes powdery.

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day.
This was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the residue
that can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to use the
stairwell for exercise?

Please supply the link[s] to the information that you were reading.

I basically did the following search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=smok...ge+fire+health

If the residue was that bad, would it be unwise to use the stairwell
for access to the flats until the it had been cleaned? if that was
the case, then the tenants (including yourself) would have been
temporarily rehoused.

I apologize, I should have clarified that the stairwell is the fire
stairwell. Or that's how it's normally looked upon as. It might be
perceived as being rarely used, which would certainly be true. The
norm is to use the lift. So there might be less concern with testing.
Possibly none.

This question is relevant to highrises in general because with that
many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire having occured and
pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high. Likely proportional
to the age of the building.

And that is one of the reasons you should stay in your flat, behind
the 1 hour fire check front door and internal doors and wait for the
fire brigade to arrive to assist your escape.

The only exception to this is if the fire is in your flat and your
life is in danger, then you should shut all the doors inside it,
exit the flat and shut the front door and use the nearest fire
escape (not the lifts if fitted).

This reduces the effects of smoke and fumes in the stairwells.

In our fire drills, the entire highrise is evacuated.

wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:22:23 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past
year. One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke
that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the
stairwell.

If there was a 1 hour fire check door fitted to the flat - then he
should have stayed in the flat until the fire brigade arrived.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted with
1 hour fire check doors to the main apartment access and internal
rooms so that the occupants can be safely rescued in the event of a
fire.

Sorry, I don't follow your remark about the 1 hour fire check door.
Even if it was true, my concern is that the smoke billowed into the
hallways as to make it difficult to even find the way to the
stairwell, and entered the stairewell when the tenants on that floor
took the stairwell.

Fire check doors fitted with intumescent strips to prevent smoke penetration
must be fitted by law in high-rise domestic buildings. This is so that the
tenants can stay put while the fire brigade deals with the problem.

As for your statement "difficult to even find the way to the stairwell" I
find that difficult to believe as that would be the main fire escape and
should be sign posted and easy to locate - unless there are fire escapes
fitted to the outside of the building (usually metal and of open design)
which are accessed through designated external windows/doors) thus reducing
the likelihood of smoke.

As for your statement "that the smoke billowed into the hallways" that will
happen whenever a door is opened when a flat is on fire and ventilation for
that smoke should be designed into the stairwat


Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when
the door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a month
or two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter on the
floor on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there was no
specific cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga bout that.
However, I would be shocked if there was even the slightest thought
of cleaning the stairwell.

If the fire was that bad, then there would have been some very
noticeable smoke damage in the stairwell that would most certainly
have needed cleaning off - or even redecoratig after the clean up.

My concern is the info out there relating to smoke damage.
Apparently, it coats everything, not necessarily in an apparent way.
Sometimes filmy, sometimes powdery.

Believe me, if the smoke is that bad, then you will see the staining caused
by it (usually black and greasy and a sod to shift)

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day.
This was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the residue
that can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to use the
stairwell for exercise?

Please supply the link[s] to the information that you were reading.

I basically did the following search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=smok...ge+fire+health

Any quotes?

If the residue was that bad, would it be unwise to use the stairwell
for access to the flats until the it had been cleaned? if that was
the case, then the tenants (including yourself) would have been
temporarily rehoused.

I apologize, I should have clarified that the stairwell is the fire
stairwell. Or that's how it's normally looked upon as. It might be
perceived as being rarely used, which would certainly be true. The
norm is to use the lift. So there might be less concern with testing.
Possibly none.

If is the only stairway in the high rise, it is also classes as a 'fire
escape' (as you would *NOT* use the lift in such a case) and would be signed
as such and fitted with self-closing fire check doors on every landing.

That stairway should be checked every year and kept clear of obstruction

This question is relevant to highrises in general because with that
many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire having occured and
pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high. Likely proportional
to the age of the building.

And that is one of the reasons you should stay in your flat, behind
the 1 hour fire check front door and internal doors and wait for the
fire brigade to arrive to assist your escape.

The only exception to this is if the fire is in your flat and your
life is in danger, then you should shut all the doors inside it,
exit the flat and shut the front door and use the nearest fire
escape (not the lifts if fitted).

This reduces the effects of smoke and fumes in the stairwells.

In our fire drills, the entire highrise is evacuated.

Using the stairs and NOT using the lifts should be the standarr practice -
and as you have regular fire drills, then *EVERY* tenant would be familiar
with the escape routes and procedures.

Personally, I think a little paranoia is creeping in.

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:34:03 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:22:23 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past
year. One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke
that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the
stairwell.

If there was a 1 hour fire check door fitted to the flat - then he
should have stayed in the flat until the fire brigade arrived.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted
with 1 hour fire check doors to the main apartment access and
internal rooms so that the occupants can be safely rescued in the
event of a fire.

Sorry, I don't follow your remark about the 1 hour fire check door.
Even if it was true, my concern is that the smoke billowed into the
hallways as to make it difficult to even find the way to the
stairwell, and entered the stairewell when the tenants on that
floor took the stairwell.

Fire check doors fitted with intumescent strips to prevent smoke
penetration must be fitted by law in high-rise domestic buildings.
This is so that the tenants can stay put while the fire brigade
deals with the problem.

As I said previously, the whole building evacuates when the alarm is
sounded. I don't see any strips on the door frame, and the fact that
much smoke escaped the unit that was on fire, and entered another
unit, indicates to me that we do not have effective smoke containment.

As for your statement "difficult to even find the way to the
stairwell" I find that difficult to believe as that would be the
main fire escape and should be sign posted and easy to locate -
unless there are fire escapes fitted to the outside of the building
(usually metal and of open design) which are accessed through
designated external windows/doors) thus reducing the likelihood of
smoke.

It could be that the person/people who recounted this were being
deceptive, but I sure don't see the motive for that. I also don't see
the reason why you believe this would be false, especially if there
was a lot of smoke.

As for your statement "that the smoke billowed into the hallways"
that will happen whenever a door is opened when a flat is on fire
and ventilation for that smoke should be designed into the stairwat

I am reconstructing a likely scenario based on the only information I
have, which are people's accounts. If there was so much smoke in the
hallway that the stairwell door was hard to find, then one can
naturally expect a lot of that smoke to enter the stairwell when the
stairwell door is opened. The stairwell is entered from the hallway,
and there was also a lot of smoke damage to an apartment unit that was
far away from the unit with the far. Even though the door was closed.

Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when
the door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a
month or two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter
on the floor on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there
was no specific cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga
bout that. However, I would be shocked if there was even the
slightest thought of cleaning the stairwell.

If the fire was that bad, then there would have been some very
noticeable smoke damage in the stairwell that would most certainly
have needed cleaning off - or even redecoratig after the clean up.

My concern is the info out there relating to smoke damage.
Apparently, it coats everything, not necessarily in an apparent
way. Sometimes filmy, sometimes powdery.

Believe me, if the smoke is that bad, then you will see the staining
caused by it (usually black and greasy and a sod to shift)

I think that my last point still is still valid, that smoke damage
isn't always visible. So the question is, what *is* a good indicator
of whether an internal space is OK or not, and a rational
substantiation of the answer would be would be priceless.

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day.
This was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the
residue that can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to
use the stairwell for exercise?

Please supply the link[s] to the information that you were
reading.

I basically did the following search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=smoke-damage+fire+health

Any quotes?

It isn't clear to me which point you are asking about a quote
for. Can you be more specific? I can certainly attempt to track down
the source of relevant material. Or clarify that it is my perception,
if that is the case.

If the residue was that bad, would it be unwise to use the
stairwell for access to the flats until the it had been cleaned?
if that was the case, then the tenants (including yourself) would
have been temporarily rehoused.

I apologize, I should have clarified that the stairwell is the fire
stairwell. Or that's how it's normally looked upon as. It might
be perceived as being rarely used, which would certainly be true.
The norm is to use the lift. So there might be less concern with
testing. Possibly none.

If is the only stairway in the high rise, it is also classes as a
'fire escape' (as you would *NOT* use the lift in such a case) and
would be signed as such and fitted with self-closing fire check
doors on every landing.

There are two stairwells, one at each end of the hall. In each
stairwell, there is a doorway to the stairwell from the hallway at
each floor. There are no special seals around the frame.

I should have clarified that when I said the norm is to use the lift,
I mean outside of a fire alarm scenario.

That stairway should be checked every year and kept clear of
obstruction

This question is relevant to highrises in general because with
that many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire having
occured and pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high.
Likely proportional to the age of the building.

And that is one of the reasons you should stay in your flat,
behind the 1 hour fire check front door and internal doors and
wait for the fire brigade to arrive to assist your escape.

The only exception to this is if the fire is in your flat and your
life is in danger, then you should shut all the doors inside it,
exit the flat and shut the front door and use the nearest fire
escape (not the lifts if fitted).

This reduces the effects of smoke and fumes in the stairwells.

In our fire drills, the entire highrise is evacuated.

Using the stairs and NOT using the lifts should be the standarr
practice - and as you have regular fire drills, then *EVERY* tenant
would be familiar with the escape routes and procedures.

Please see my above clarification about using the lift outside of a
fire alarm scenario.

Personally, I think a little paranoia is creeping in.

I'm not sure why you would. I asked for the opinion of people with
experience with smoke damage, and I tried to reconcile some of the
information you offered that seemed to be inconsistent either with the
situation or with the info found online. If anything, your last
opinion seems oddly out of place. Perhaps defensive, though I don't
think such a position is warranted. This is (hopefully) a rational
discussion.

wrote:
On Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:34:03 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:22:23 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past
year. One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke
that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the
stairwell.

If there was a 1 hour fire check door fitted to the flat - then he
should have stayed in the flat until the fire brigade arrived.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted
with 1 hour fire check doors to the main apartment access and
internal rooms so that the occupants can be safely rescued in the
event of a fire.

Sorry, I don't follow your remark about the 1 hour fire check door.
Even if it was true, my concern is that the smoke billowed into the
hallways as to make it difficult to even find the way to the
stairwell, and entered the stairewell when the tenants on that
floor took the stairwell.

Fire check doors fitted with intumescent strips to prevent smoke
penetration must be fitted by law in high-rise domestic buildings.
This is so that the tenants can stay put while the fire brigade
deals with the problem.

As I said previously, the whole building evacuates when the alarm is
sounded. I don't see any strips on the door frame, and the fact that
much smoke escaped the unit that was on fire, and entered another
unit, indicates to me that we do not have effective smoke containment.

Try looking on the door edges.

As for your statement "difficult to even find the way to the
stairwell" I find that difficult to believe as that would be the
main fire escape and should be sign posted and easy to locate -
unless there are fire escapes fitted to the outside of the building
(usually metal and of open design) which are accessed through
designated external windows/doors) thus reducing the likelihood of
smoke.

It could be that the person/people who recounted this were being
deceptive, but I sure don't see the motive for that. I also don't see
the reason why you believe this would be false, especially if there
was a lot of smoke.

Some people exagerate - it's that simple. And if that person has lived in
that high rise for more than a fortnight, he or she would be able to find
their way to stairs - and in dense smoke, you simply lie flat on your
stomach, with your nose scraping the ground and crawl. *DO* *NOT* try
walking in that situation.

As for your statement "that the smoke billowed into the hallways"
that will happen whenever a door is opened when a flat is on fire
and ventilation for that smoke should be designed into the stairwat

I am reconstructing a likely scenario based on the only information I
have, which are people's accounts. If there was so much smoke in the
hallway that the stairwell door was hard to find, then one can
naturally expect a lot of that smoke to enter the stairwell when the
stairwell door is opened. The stairwell is entered from the hallway,
and there was also a lot of smoke damage to an apartment unit that was
far away from the unit with the far. Even though the door was closed.

Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when
the door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a
month or two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter
on the floor on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there
was no specific cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga
bout that. However, I would be shocked if there was even the
slightest thought of cleaning the stairwell.

If the fire was that bad, then there would have been some very
noticeable smoke damage in the stairwell that would most certainly
have needed cleaning off - or even redecoratig after the clean up.

My concern is the info out there relating to smoke damage.
Apparently, it coats everything, not necessarily in an apparent
way. Sometimes filmy, sometimes powdery.

Believe me, if the smoke is that bad, then you will see the staining
caused by it (usually black and greasy and a sod to shift)

I think that my last point still is still valid, that smoke damage
isn't always visible. So the question is, what *is* a good indicator
of whether an internal space is OK or not, and a rational
substantiation of the answer would be would be priceless.

Yes it is, if it's not cleared off or coated with a stain-block it will
bleed through any decoration. If you cannot see smoke damage, then don't
worry!

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day.
This was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the
residue that can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to
use the stairwell for exercise?

Please supply the link[s] to the information that you were
reading.

I basically did the following search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=smoke-damage+fire+health

Any quotes?

It isn't clear to me which point you are asking about a quote
for. Can you be more specific? I can certainly attempt to track down
the source of relevant material. Or clarify that it is my perception,
if that is the case.

11,000,000 results - on that link, which ones are you referring to, can
*you* be more specific?

If the residue was that bad, would it be unwise to use the
stairwell for access to the flats until the it had been cleaned?
if that was the case, then the tenants (including yourself) would
have been temporarily rehoused.

I apologize, I should have clarified that the stairwell is the fire
stairwell. Or that's how it's normally looked upon as. It might
be perceived as being rarely used, which would certainly be true.
The norm is to use the lift. So there might be less concern with
testing. Possibly none.

If is the only stairway in the high rise, it is also classes as a
'fire escape' (as you would *NOT* use the lift in such a case) and
would be signed as such and fitted with self-closing fire check
doors on every landing.

There are two stairwells, one at each end of the hall. In each
stairwell, there is a doorway to the stairwell from the hallway at
each floor. There are no special seals around the frame.

Try looking on the edges of the doors and look for springs that don't allow
the door to stay in the open position - and if idiots wedge those doors open
for extra ventilation etc then no amount of regulation will stop that.

If that sounds harsh, I make no apology because idiocy like that causes
unnecessary deaths!

I should have clarified that when I said the norm is to use the lift,
I mean outside of a fire alarm scenario.

That stairway should be checked every year and kept clear of
obstruction

This question is relevant to highrises in general because with
that many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire having
occured and pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high.
Likely proportional to the age of the building.

And that is one of the reasons you should stay in your flat,
behind the 1 hour fire check front door and internal doors and
wait for the fire brigade to arrive to assist your escape.

The only exception to this is if the fire is in your flat and your
life is in danger, then you should shut all the doors inside it,
exit the flat and shut the front door and use the nearest fire
escape (not the lifts if fitted).

This reduces the effects of smoke and fumes in the stairwells.

In our fire drills, the entire highrise is evacuated.

Using the stairs and NOT using the lifts should be the standarr
practice - and as you have regular fire drills, then *EVERY* tenant
would be familiar with the escape routes and procedures.

Please see my above clarification about using the lift outside of a
fire alarm scenario.

Personally, I think a little paranoia is creeping in.

I'm not sure why you would. I asked for the opinion of people with
experience with smoke damage, and I tried to reconcile some of the
information you offered that seemed to be inconsistent either with the
situation or with the info found online.

Take a little advice - *DO* *NOT* believe most of what you read on the
internet (unless it has come from official sources). If you want specific
information straight from the horses mouth - nip down to you nearest fire
station, bang on the door and ask the firefighters, they will gladly give
you all the information (or point you to it) that you seek. *AND* while
you're there, ask them to check out the fire precautions in your block flats
as from your post, there are problems that could possibly cause death.

If anything, your last opinion seems oddly out of place. Perhaps
defensive, though I don't
think such a position is warranted. This is (hopefully) a rational
discussion.

Not defensive nor apologetic, Just used to repairing and cleaning fire
damaged properties - and from the tone of your posts, paranoia seems to be
evident (if not for you, perhaps for others).

As for the effects of smoke, that seldom harms you, it's the chemicals/gases
that come from various burning materials mixed with that smoke that usually
does the damage, and once these are *properly* cleaned off the various
surfaces and the redecoration done all should be well.

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:02:52 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:34:03 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:22:23 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
snips

There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past
year. One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke
that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the
stairwell.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted
with 1 hour fire check doors to the main apartment access and
internal rooms so that the occupants can be safely rescued in the
event of a fire.

Fire check doors fitted with intumescent strips to prevent smoke
penetration must be fitted by law in high-rise domestic buildings.

As I said previously, the whole building evacuates when the alarm is
sounded. I don't see any strips on the door frame, and the fact that
much smoke escaped the unit that was on fire, and entered another
unit, indicates to me that we do not have effective smoke containment.

For a high rise that is not reassuring. I can only +1 the suggestions that you get capable advice on fire precautions and bring the building upto date.. I don't have the expertise you need. I assume that all doors between a flat and the shared corridors should at least be fire doors fitted with intumescent strips, and of course there are various other requirements.


NT

"Woodworm" wrote in message
...
wrote:
There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past year.
One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke that it was
hard to find his way through the hallway to the stairwell.

If there was a 1 hour fire check door fitted to the flat - then he should
have stayed in the flat until the fire brigade arrived.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted with 1 hour
fire check doors to the main apartment access and internal rooms so that
the occupants can be safely rescued in the event of a fire.

Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when the
door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a month or
two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter on the floor
on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there was no specific
cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga bout that. However, I
would be shocked if there was even the slightest thought of cleaning
the stairwell.

If the fire was that bad, then there would have been some very noticeable
smoke damage in the stairwell that would most certainly have needed
cleaning off - or even redecoratig after the clean up.

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day. This
was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the residue that
can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to use the stairwell
for exercise?

Please supply the link[s] to the information that you were reading.

If the residue was that bad, would it be unwise to use the stairwell for
access to the flats until the it had been cleaned? if that was the case,
then the tenants (including yourself) would have been temporarily
rehoused.

This question is relevant to highrises in general
because with that many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire
having occured and pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high.
Likely proportional to the age of the building.

And that is one of the reasons you should stay in your flat, behind the 1
hour fire check front door and internal doors and wait for the fire
brigade to arrive to assist your escape.

The only exception to this is if the fire is in your flat and your life is
in danger, then you should shut all the doors inside it, exit the flat and
shut the front door and use the nearest fire escape (not the lifts if
fitted).

This reduces the effects of smoke and fumes in the stairwells.

All the above is correct.
I wouldn't worry too much.
The air pollution in the average town from cars etc. will be far worse for
your health.

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:18:32 AM UTC-4, harry wrote:
"Woodworm" wrote in message
...
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past
year. One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke
that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the
stairwell.

If there was a 1 hour fire check door fitted to the flat - then he
should have stayed in the flat until the fire brigade arrived.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted with
1 hour fire check doors to the main apartment access and internal
rooms so that the occupants can be safely rescued in the event of a
fire.

Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when
the door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a
month or two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter
on the floor on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there
was no specific cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga
bout that. However, I would be shocked if there was even the
slightest thought of cleaning the stairwell.

If the fire was that bad, then there would have been some very
noticeable smoke damage in the stairwell that would most certainly
have needed cleaning off - or even redecoratig after the clean up.

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day.
This was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the
residue that can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to use
the stairwell for exercise?

Please supply the link[s] to the information that you were reading.

If the residue was that bad, would it be unwise to use the
stairwell for access to the flats until the it had been cleaned? if
that was the case, then the tenants (including yourself) would have
been temporarily rehoused.

This question is relevant to highrises in general because with that
many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire having occured
and pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high. Likely
proportional to the age of the building.

And that is one of the reasons you should stay in your flat, behind
the 1 hour fire check front door and internal doors and wait for
the fire brigade to arrive to assist your escape.

The only exception to this is if the fire is in your flat and your
life is in danger, then you should shut all the doors inside it,
exit the flat and shut the front door and use the nearest fire
escape (not the lifts if fitted).

This reduces the effects of smoke and fumes in the stairwells.

All the above is correct. I wouldn't worry too much. The air
pollution in the average town from cars etc. will be far worse for
your health.

I think that would be good news, Woodworm. Would you be able to
describe a bit of the basis for this assessment? Thanks.

wrote:
On Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:18:32 AM UTC-4, harry wrote:
"Woodworm" wrote in message
...
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
There was a fire in one of the units of my highrise in the past
year. One of the tenants said that that there was so much smoke
that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the
stairwell.

If there was a 1 hour fire check door fitted to the flat - then he
should have stayed in the flat until the fire brigade arrived.

From memory, I believe that all high-rise flats must be fitted with
1 hour fire check doors to the main apartment access and internal
rooms so that the occupants can be safely rescued in the event of a
fire.

Obviously, this means that smoke billowed into the stairwell when
the door was opened by those getting to the stairwell. For a
month or two afterward, there was an industrial size HEPA filter
on the floor on which the fire occurred. I'm pretty sure there
was no specific cleaning of the hallway, but I could be wronga
bout that. However, I would be shocked if there was even the
slightest thought of cleaning the stairwell.

If the fire was that bad, then there would have been some very
noticeable smoke damage in the stairwell that would most certainly
have needed cleaning off - or even redecoratig after the clean up.

I use to climb the entire stairwell for exercise -- twice a day.
This was after the fire. However, I've been reading of the
residue that can be left behind after a fire. Is it unwise to use
the stairwell for exercise?

Please supply the link[s] to the information that you were reading.

If the residue was that bad, would it be unwise to use the
stairwell for access to the flats until the it had been cleaned? if
that was the case, then the tenants (including yourself) would have
been temporarily rehoused.

This question is relevant to highrises in general because with that
many units, I'm sure that the probability of fire having occured
and pumped smoke into the stairwell is quite high. Likely
proportional to the age of the building.

And that is one of the reasons you should stay in your flat, behind
the 1 hour fire check front door and internal doors and wait for
the fire brigade to arrive to assist your escape.

The only exception to this is if the fire is in your flat and your
life is in danger, then you should shut all the doors inside it,
exit the flat and shut the front door and use the nearest fire
escape (not the lifts if fitted).

This reduces the effects of smoke and fumes in the stairwells.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

All the above is correct. I wouldn't worry too much. The air
pollution in the average town from cars etc. will be far worse for
your health.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

I think that would be good news, Woodworm. Would you be able to
describe a bit of the basis for this assessment? Thanks.

I cannot see any post in this thread where I made THAT statement, if my
'handle' is against the post where that statement came from - then it is
false - please check the headers of the post.

Note: The statement is factually correct though - and it may have come from
someone residing in my killfile, hence the reason I have not seen it.

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 6:56:10 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++
All the above is correct. I wouldn't worry too much. The air
pollution in the average town from cars etc. will be far worse for
your health.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

I think that would be good news, Woodworm. Would you be able to
describe a bit of the basis for this assessment? Thanks.

I cannot see any post in this thread where I made THAT statement, if
my 'handle' is against the post where that statement came from -
then it is false - please check the headers of the post.

Note: The statement is factually correct though - and it may have
come from someone residing in my killfile, hence the reason I have
not seen it.

Myb bad ...it was a respondent, Harry. I'd still be interested in an
objective basis for this, if one is available.

On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:41:16 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 6:43:49 PM UTC-4, Woodworm wrote:
andymhancock_AT_gmail_DOT_com wrote:
As I said previously, the whole building evacuates when the alarm
is sounded. I don't see any strips on the door frame, and the
fact that much smoke escaped the unit that was on fire, and
entered another unit, indicates to me that we do not have
effective smoke containment.

Try looking on the door edges.

It looks like a simple wood door.

Breaking the fire regulations then - or you are unable to identify a
fire check door?

It has no strip. It's just wood. I can't describe this any simpler
terms.

It could be that the person/people who recounted this were being
deceptive, but I sure don't see the motive for that. I also
don't see the reason why you believe this would be false,
especially if there was a lot of smoke.

Some people exagerate - it's that simple. And if that person has
lived in that high rise for more than a fortnight, he or she would
be able to find their way to stairs - and in dense smoke, you
simply lie flat on your stomach, with your nose scraping the
ground and crawl.

I'm trying to recount the content of the conversation, so it will
not be of the accuracy of a recording. I am 2 steps removed from
the person who said this, so it could very well have been an
expression of not being able to see his way to the stairwell
Someone familiar with the hallway would obviously be able to feel
his/her way to the stairwell.

If the smoke was that bad, and contaminated with the toxic gases
that are produced during the combustion of many household materials,
they wouldn't have got that far.

OK.

I think that my last point still is still valid, that smoke
damage isn't always visible. So the question is, what *is* a
good indicator of whether an internal space is OK or not, and a
rational substantiation of the answer would be would be
priceless.

Yes it is, if it's not cleared off or coated with a stain-block it
will bleed through any decoration. If you cannot see smoke damage,
then don't worry!

My impression that smoke damage doesn't have to be visible comes
from web browsing, e.g.,
http://iohomeimprovement.com/diy-tip...n-smoke-damage
http://www.smokecontaminanttesting.com/whytesting.php

You are believing too much of what's on the web.

I'm simply providing information found supporting certain assumptions.
I realize that information needs to be vetted, including postings
here. The information you just provided simply says that the other
information is false. I get that. In the end, I have to make a
judgement call on all of the information, depending on how credible it
appears and the amount of consensus that there appears to be.

http://www.google.com/search?q=smoke-damage+fire+health

Any quotes?

It isn't clear to me which point you are asking about a quote
for. Can you be more specific? I can certainly attempt to track
down the source of relevant material. Or clarify that it is my
perception, if that is the case.

11,000,000 results - on that link, which ones are you referring
to, can *you* be more specific?

I would like to be, but you asked for quotes. I'm just not sure
for what. In a scientific paper, you normally provide a citation
to back up a specific statement, phrase, or fact.

Granted, you also asked for links to the information I'm reading,
but I browsed quite a few webpages, and they come from the above
search. In order to find specific quotes, I'd have to know what
specifically you want a citation for. Was is a particular detail I
mentioned that seemed odd and thus required substantiation?

I'm not sure why you pointed out the 11 million links -- google
will come up with countless links for most searches, but it's the
leading links that are mostl likely to be relevant.

If you have followed the google saga for the last few years, you
will find that that is not really true of google.

Well, I try to keep on top of things. There are many factors that
affect how hits are compiled and ordered. But in general, the most
relevant are listed first. The fact that there are 11 million other
ones are not relevant. There could be 11 trillion for all that it
mattered.

As for the effects of smoke, that seldom harms you, it's the
chemicals/gases that come from various burning materials mixed
with that smoke that usually does the damage, and once these are
*properly* cleaned off the various surfaces and the redecoration
done all should be well.

So it sounds like you're saying that unless it's visible, anything
coating the walls would not be at a harmful level?

Put into perspective. If the pollution from the smoke residue on
the walls was in any way damaging to general health of people
walking, running etc up the stairs, then that residue would be
classed a possibly carcinogenic (highly likely) and highly
dangerous to health and very obvious 'greasy' black stains
affecting the walls - and it would far worse at the seat of the
fire in the flat.

If that were the case, every occupant of the block of flats would
be forced to move out of their property until either the building
was demolished and rebuilt or (the more logical) the carcinogenic
residue was removed and the affected parts of the build
redecorated and declared safe by the relevant authorities.

As that obviously didn't happen, then I would suggest that the
smoke damage was minor (just a bad pong) which only needed
ventilation to clear the stairway - and major damagage (if any)
was confined to the flat and possibly into the corridor and the
statement "One of the tenants said that that there was so much
smoke that it was hard to find his way through the hallway to the
stairwell." was *NOT* in fact entirely true.

I would agree that your string of assumptions are plausible, and
some are actually quite likely. However, it is also be *very*
reasonable to assume that some of them would not actually be
realized. Many reasonable sounding things often do not happen, for
any number of reasons. The statement comparing the level of damage
from smoke damage to traffic pollution was made with a pronounced
tone of certainty, and for that reason, I thought you might have
some specific quantitative backing for it. Not having that is
fine, but let's accept that it is then a viewpoint, based on your
assumptions above.

Not assumptions, but from practical knowledge of evacuating people
into temporary accommodation after fire and flood damage. Seeing and
repairing fire damage along with the cleaning and redecorating etc.

I appreciate that you're describing the basis for your statements.

As for the "objective basis", have you did as I suggested and
contacted your local fire station? If not, then I would reiterate
that you do this to put your mind at rest. Oh, and have any of the
other occupants of the flats enquired about this subject - or is
it only you?

I may just do that. At this point, I'm seeing what substantiated
information can come from forums. Thanks. As for other occupants,
I haven't asked. If you read my original post for the reason why
I'm asking, I don't think asking other tenants would be
appropriate.

Why not ask the tenants, if you consider that *YOUR* health may be
in danger wouldn't that be prudent and neighbourly to pass on your
worries , or is it simply that no one else thinks there is any
danger to their health - or that they know for a fact that the
danger is non-existent?

Or perhaps there is some conflict berween neighbours underway?

Paranoia still comes to mind and I wonder why you actually use the
stairs for exercise if you are that frightened of the effects of a
past fire - surely the simple answer would be to take up jogging
around the local park to take in all that lovely fresh air - or is
there an underlying compensation motive for your questioning?

End of subject

I'm not sure how asking tenants will help, unless I just happen upon
someone with professional experience in the area.

While I appreciate your contribution to this thread, I would also
appreciate this thread being kept on topic. It is very reasonable to
ask contributors for the basis of their statements. As you indicated,
after all, it is the internet (or rather, usenet, which these days is
effectively just another forum accessible on the internet). So I fail
to see why you're deliberately trying to fabricate a highly dramatic
situation around the original question.