We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.

At present, we have a master socket in the living room and an extension
on the first floor landing, where the wireless router and the DECT
basestation live. This works well enough to give fair wifi coverage
around the house (which is bigger than normal), so I'd like to keep this
configuration.

The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do some
enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.

Firstly, we have a low wall between us and the pavement, and a tarmac
drive. I assume they'll go through or over the wall then trench across
the drive to get to the house. equally, I assume they'll make good any
trench, but could be wrong. Does that sound likely?

I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master
socket, but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position to
this and if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be through
a phone extension like we have now.)

I'm not sure whether we'd go all the way and have their TV (some pro's
and con's here) but presumably this would branch from their master via
coax or something.

I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't
seem to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be grateful
for any informed views.

"GMM" GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk wrote in message
...
We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.

At present, we have a master socket in the living room and an extension on
the first floor landing, where the wireless router and the DECT
basestation live. This works well enough to give fair wifi coverage
around the house (which is bigger than normal), so I'd like to keep this
configuration.

The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do some
enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.

Firstly, we have a low wall between us and the pavement, and a tarmac
drive. I assume they'll go through or over the wall then trench across
the drive to get to the house. equally, I assume they'll make good any
trench, but could be wrong. Does that sound likely?

I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master socket,
but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position to this and
if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be through a phone
extension like we have now.)

I'm not sure whether we'd go all the way and have their TV (some pro's and
con's here) but presumably this would branch from their master via coax or
something.

I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't seem
to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be grateful for any
informed views.


Ok. So the new build apartments I have spent a little time wiring up are VM
ready (TV, Broadband, Telephone) for every lounge and bedroom. It's a dual
installation that will run alongside BT. I am not too sure what will happen
if VM ever fit any equipment but I am sure that the owner of the property
will have a fit if VM ever do fit anything. This customer is a royal PITA.

However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The
cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as far as
2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM do not
know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down tarmac is what
they call good.

You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.

--
Adam

On 10/09/2014 19:47, ARW wrote:
"GMM" GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk wrote in message
...
We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the
BT infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.

At present, we have a master socket in the living room and an
extension on the first floor landing, where the wireless router and
the DECT basestation live. This works well enough to give fair wifi
coverage around the house (which is bigger than normal), so I'd like
to keep this configuration.

The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do
some enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.

Firstly, we have a low wall between us and the pavement, and a tarmac
drive. I assume they'll go through or over the wall then trench
across the drive to get to the house. equally, I assume they'll make
good any trench, but could be wrong. Does that sound likely?

I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master
socket, but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position
to this and if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be
through a phone extension like we have now.)

I'm not sure whether we'd go all the way and have their TV (some pro's
and con's here) but presumably this would branch from their master via
coax or something.

I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't
seem to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be
grateful for any informed views.


Ok. So the new build apartments I have spent a little time wiring up are
VM ready (TV, Broadband, Telephone) for every lounge and bedroom. It's a
dual installation that will run alongside BT. I am not too sure what
will happen if VM ever fit any equipment but I am sure that the owner of
the property will have a fit if VM ever do fit anything. This customer
is a royal PITA.

However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The
cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as
far as 2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM
do not know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down
tarmac is what they call good.

You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.

So somewhere a long way down the scale from a dog's breakfast then?
That's what was concerning me - presumably they employ some cowboy on a
per job basis and his ambition is to bugger off as quickly as possible.
So is your installation all cabled up or is it just conduit or
something? (What I did pick up from searching was that VM don't like
connecting up to anyone else's work - maybe it's different if you're a
real sparks)

On 10/09/14 19:47, ARW wrote:
"GMM" GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk wrote in message


The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do
some enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.


I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master
socket, but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position
to this and if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be
through a phone extension like we have now.)

They install a drop cable from the street- look for a round black cover
about 2" dia,
and an external connection box on your house outside wall. From there
they run a coax cable
to where you want the TV box, and cable modem/router, and some twisted
pair to where
you want the phone master socket.


However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The
cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as
far as 2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM
do not know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down
tarmac is what they call good.


Yep, unless you watch them very closely. My drive is stonechip, last
time they relaid my drop cable (thanks to ****wit contractors cutting
it), the first time they laid it and kicked loose stone over it.

You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.


Yep, when I moved the phone to them they wanted to cable-tie it to the
drainpipe.

In message , GMM
writes
That's what was concerning me - presumably they employ some cowboy on a
per job basis and his ambition is to bugger off as quickly as possible.

I "support" someone who has moved to VM. In his case I seem to remember
it taking at least 3 visits. It wasn't on a per-job basis, it was a time
limit per installation, so they got part way through and "made their
excuses and left" for their next appointment. I don't think the system
allows for anything other than a standard small garden to be in the way.

After he got it going, it has worked well enough, and the support has
been pretty good.
--
Bill

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 8:14:50 PM UTC+1, Chris Bartram wrote:
You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.
Yep, when I moved the phone to them they wanted to cable-tie it to the
drainpipe.

Raise you a BT fitter who cable-tied a dropwire to a gas pipe.

Owain

In article , Bill
scribeth thus
In message , GMM
writes
That's what was concerning me - presumably they employ some cowboy on a
per job basis and his ambition is to bugger off as quickly as possible.

I "support" someone who has moved to VM. In his case I seem to remember
it taking at least 3 visits. It wasn't on a per-job basis, it was a time
limit per installation, so they got part way through and "made their
excuses and left" for their next appointment. I don't think the system
allows for anything other than a standard small garden to be in the way.

After he got it going, it has worked well enough, and the support has
been pretty good.

I've recommend a couple of people to then and in each case they did make
a decent job of it, in fact one went to quite a bit of bother to see
that a cable was routed where the user wanted it.

However what they do find good is the 100 Meg speeds which are a LOT
faster then what they got with BT ADSL...

--
Tony Sayer

GMM wrote


We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.


You're kidding yourself if you believe VM are any better than BT. It's
nothing to be offline for days at a time and be lied to by their call
centre.

This is one site that follows VM problems

http://downdetector.co.uk/problems/virgin-media

I'm sure there are others.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/

You're kidding yourself if you believe VM are any better than BT.
It's nothing to be offline for days at a time and be lied to by their
call centre.

Location may matter. I reckon we've averaged about 4 hours offline a
year[1] since we first had cable internet from Cable London.

[1] it's more wet finger than database; and I'm excluding the time when
a power cut took out 90 per ceent of the houses around here plus their
street cabinets leaving us one of the few islands of light - but no
internet.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 10/09/14 21:25, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 8:14:50 PM UTC+1, Chris Bartram wrote:
You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.
Yep, when I moved the phone to them they wanted to cable-tie it to the
drainpipe.

Raise you a BT fitter who cable-tied a dropwire to a gas pipe.

Owain

Well, BT are the old hands at not giving a ****.

On 10/09/2014 21:52, Jabba wrote:
GMM wrote


We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.


You're kidding yourself if you believe VM are any better than BT. It's
nothing to be offline for days at a time and be lied to by their call
centre.

This is one site that follows VM problems

http://downdetector.co.uk/problems/virgin-media

I'm sure there are others.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/


I wouldn't imagine for a moment that both organisations are not as bad
as each other. Experience here, however, shows that the ageing BT
infrastructure causes an almost constant string of problems, which also
take days to resolve. I would just be playing the odds that the VM
infrastructure is substantially newer and so *may* give fewer
reliability issues, combined with better performance if/when it does
work as advertised.
Ironically, the BT exchange is less than 200m away and we're in the
middle of the city, but we have lost broadband and/or phone service for
a few days every 2 - 3 months, on average, over the 3 years we have
lived here. Since pretty much every other ISP relies on the BT network,
VM seems the only alternative to try.

In message sting.com,
Jabba writes
GMM wrote


We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.


You're kidding yourself if you believe VM are any better than BT. It's
nothing to be offline for days at a time and be lied to by their call
centre.

This is one site that follows VM problems

http://downdetector.co.uk/problems/virgin-media

I'm sure there are others.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/

On the other hand I have been with VM, previously NTL, for longer than I
can remember, 15 years +/- a year or so. I've noticed maybe 2 short,
less than a day, outages in this time and apart from a rather
frustrating incident where my connection kept dropping every 10 minutes
or so and the call centre was positively useless I have no complaints
against them.





--
Bill

"ARW" writes:

"GMM" GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk wrote in message
...
We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.

At present, we have a master socket in the living room and an extension on
the first floor landing, where the wireless router and the DECT
basestation live. This works well enough to give fair wifi coverage
around the house (which is bigger than normal), so I'd like to keep this
configuration.

The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do some
enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.

Firstly, we have a low wall between us and the pavement, and a tarmac
drive. I assume they'll go through or over the wall then trench across
the drive to get to the house. equally, I assume they'll make good any
trench, but could be wrong. Does that sound likely?

I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master socket,
but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position to this and
if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be through a phone
extension like we have now.)

I'm not sure whether we'd go all the way and have their TV (some pro's and
con's here) but presumably this would branch from their master via coax or
something.

I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't seem
to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be grateful for any
informed views.


Ok. So the new build apartments I have spent a little time wiring up are VM
ready (TV, Broadband, Telephone) for every lounge and bedroom. It's a dual
installation that will run alongside BT. I am not too sure what will happen
if VM ever fit any equipment but I am sure that the owner of the property
will have a fit if VM ever do fit anything. This customer is a royal PITA.

However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The
cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as far as
2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM do not
know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down tarmac is what
they call good.

You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.

And if you get phone from them, they will at regular intervals
disconnect one or both sides of the pair, or connect both to the same
point in the cabinet. (As will BT.)
Look for bits of wire near the VM phone cabinet if you know where that
is and your phone goes dead (or if it's BT look for someone down in a
manhole near you; I'm not playing favourites).

Currently there's -45 volts on one wire of the pair in my flat, and the
other wire is open circuit instead of being at about -5V.
I've told them, but of course that makes no difference: they 'need to
get into my flat' to repair their external disconnection, and so far
they and I haven't found a mutually suitable time.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 7:15:09 PM UTC+1, GMM wrote:
We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.
At present, we have a master socket in the living room and an extension
on the first floor landing, where the wireless router and the DECT
basestation live. This works well enough to give fair wifi coverage
around the house (which is bigger than normal), so I'd like to keep this
configuration.
The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do some
enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.
Firstly, we have a low wall between us and the pavement, and a tarmac
drive. I assume they'll go through or over the wall then trench across
the drive to get to the house. equally, I assume they'll make good any
trench, but could be wrong. Does that sound likely?
I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master
socket, but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position to
this and if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be through
a phone extension like we have now.)
I'm not sure whether we'd go all the way and have their TV (some pro's
and con's here) but presumably this would branch from their master via
coax or something.
I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't
seem to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be grateful
for any informed views.

VM have the best speed & network reliability, but the company behind it varies randomly from fine to appalling. Virgin is rebadged ntl, telewest et al, look up nthell.


NT

On 10 Sep 2014, Bill grunted:

On the other hand I have been with VM, previously NTL, for longer than I
can remember, 15 years +/- a year or so. I've noticed maybe 2 short,
less than a day, outages in this time and apart from a rather
frustrating incident where my connection kept dropping every 10 minutes
or so and the call centre was positively useless I have no complaints
against them.

I'd have added "+1" to that, except my own experience doesn't include the
'frustrating incident'.

I've heard it said that the standard of VM's service is heavily dependent
on the origin of their infrastructure; NTL's was supposed to be very
reliable but those set up by other outfits who ended up under Branson were
a different matter.

Might be worthwhile the OP researching that angle a bit?

--
David

Well Virgin do not use the phone line for broadband, its the tv cable
normally, but you do not have to have their cable tv.
The cable they use is very thick, so really it is maybe best to have the
modem/router they supply near where the cable comes in from outside. this is
usually through a wall with sealant around it. The phone bit can be the same
wiring as bt of course, and as its not dslany more no filters.
As for the garden. Normally they will try not to cross driveways and take
it the long way around any wall or fence etc. The cable here is a dual
phone and TV cable and terminated in a grey box outside the room where the
hole is drilled through the wall for the broadband. The phone cable is taken
in usually through a the same way bt did it by the look of it.

The way I have arranged it is to switch their router into modem mode, then
run a network cable to wherever my own router is. You would need to buy this
of course as its not the same as a bt one.
That way the cable is quite thin.

I find Virgin very reliable, thigh people tell me that bt Infinity is as
well and faster on the uplink than Virgin. Not that this is a huge issue
unless you want to send a lot of stuff somewhere.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"GMM" GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk wrote in message
...
We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.

At present, we have a master socket in the living room and an extension on
the first floor landing, where the wireless router and the DECT
basestation live. This works well enough to give fair wifi coverage
around the house (which is bigger than normal), so I'd like to keep this
configuration.

The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do some
enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.

Firstly, we have a low wall between us and the pavement, and a tarmac
drive. I assume they'll go through or over the wall then trench across
the drive to get to the house. equally, I assume they'll make good any
trench, but could be wrong. Does that sound likely?

I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master socket,
but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position to this and
if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be through a phone
extension like we have now.)

I'm not sure whether we'd go all the way and have their TV (some pro's and
con's here) but presumably this would branch from their master via coax or
something.

I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't seem
to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be grateful for any
informed views.

On 10/09/2014 19:15, GMM wrote:
I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master
socket, but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position to
this and if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be through
a phone extension like we have now.)

In common with others, the cable was laid (in green outer tube) about 1
to 2 inches deep across lawn and through flowerbed (no attempt to bury
among the plants).

Later I have re-routed and properly buried it much deeper.

We did at one point have the cable from the cabinet replaced - though
can't remember the exact details. They did manage to simply push it down
the green outer.

At the house we have an external wall box which feeds one internal point
in the downstairs and a second upstairs. Downstairs feeds television and
upstairs feeds the cable modem (and our router). Done at original
install time without any problem at all. Both wall boxes are identical
and have two F-type connectors so we could use either for television and
broadband. And they are bigger than you might expect.

We also asked for (and got) two or three longer lengths of cable ready
terminate with F-plugs so we could move things around later if we
wished. Again, no problem.

All the above was years ago so anything might have changed.

--
Rod

They just unhooked the bt phone line pulled the wire out through a hole in
the window frame, poked theirs through an put it into the block. At least it
saved on extension rewiring. I suspect each installer works as they feel
fit at the venue.
I'd not say their work was total rubbish, but they do from time to time not
weather proof their junction boxes on the walss or use one rawl plug and
one screw to fix it, using a nail through the other hole to stop it moving.
Maybe screws are expensive or masonary drills are in short supply sometimes
:-)

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"GMM" GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk wrote in message
...
On 10/09/2014 19:47, ARW wrote:
"GMM" GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk wrote in message
...
We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the
BT infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.

At present, we have a master socket in the living room and an
extension on the first floor landing, where the wireless router and
the DECT basestation live. This works well enough to give fair wifi
coverage around the house (which is bigger than normal), so I'd like
to keep this configuration.

The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do
some enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.

Firstly, we have a low wall between us and the pavement, and a tarmac
drive. I assume they'll go through or over the wall then trench
across the drive to get to the house. equally, I assume they'll make
good any trench, but could be wrong. Does that sound likely?

I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master
socket, but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position
to this and if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be
through a phone extension like we have now.)

I'm not sure whether we'd go all the way and have their TV (some pro's
and con's here) but presumably this would branch from their master via
coax or something.

I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't
seem to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be
grateful for any informed views.


Ok. So the new build apartments I have spent a little time wiring up are
VM ready (TV, Broadband, Telephone) for every lounge and bedroom. It's a
dual installation that will run alongside BT. I am not too sure what
will happen if VM ever fit any equipment but I am sure that the owner of
the property will have a fit if VM ever do fit anything. This customer
is a royal PITA.

However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The
cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as
far as 2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM
do not know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down
tarmac is what they call good.

You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.

So somewhere a long way down the scale from a dog's breakfast then? That's
what was concerning me - presumably they employ some cowboy on a per job
basis and his ambition is to bugger off as quickly as possible.
So is your installation all cabled up or is it just conduit or something?
(What I did pick up from searching was that VM don't like connecting up to
anyone else's work - maybe it's different if you're a real sparks)

On 10/09/2014 19:15, GMM wrote:
We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.

At present, we have a master socket in the living room and an extension
on the first floor landing, where the wireless router and the DECT
basestation live. This works well enough to give fair wifi coverage
around the house (which is bigger than normal), so I'd like to keep this
configuration.

The question is, how to VM 'wire' the house? Although their web pages
re-assure customers that they will do a good job, I can't help being a
little sceptical about this and it would probably make sense to do some
enabling work before their installer gets anywhere near the place.

Firstly, we have a low wall between us and the pavement, and a tarmac
drive. I assume they'll go through or over the wall then trench across
the drive to get to the house. equally, I assume they'll make good any
trench, but could be wrong. Does that sound likely?

I assume they come in via a central point, analogous to our master
socket, but is it reasonable to have a router in a different position to
this and if so, how does this connect? (I'm thinking it won't be through
a phone extension like we have now.)

I'm not sure whether we'd go all the way and have their TV (some pro's
and con's here) but presumably this would branch from their master via
coax or something.

I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't
seem to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be grateful
for any informed views.


The first question is: Are you in a VM cable TV area? If you are then
their broadband is delivered over the TV distribution and arrives at
your house on a coax, telephone still arrives on a twisted pair from
their street cabinet. My incoming cable pops out of the pavement
through the garden wall and into a bit of flexible green conduit that
was thrown acros the top of the flowerbeds and terminated on the outside
wall of the lounge. That said and I've had broadband since around
1998/9 (which has increased considerably in size, basic speed is
currently 50M) and it's only been down perhaps half a dozen times and
only once more than two days when the modem failed.

They will happily disconnect the BT phone line and connect theirs to the
master socket. Phone service in the event of a power failure can be a
bit patchy as they rely on batteries in the street cabinets which are
unreliable (even if no one has stolen them). But if your power is
reliable then it really isn't a problem.

Their best deal is a package of phone, TV and broadband: albeit I have a
phone line and TV box that I don't use, if I get rid of these my cost
goes up!!

Peter

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 7:47:12 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:


However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The

cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as far as

2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM do not

know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down tarmac is what

they call good.



You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows

****.

+1

I've had two ntl/Virgin Media installations now.

The cable from the street to the house is run in that corrugated green "spade-proof" conduit. Some of this will be beneath the lawn/flower beds.

Me: "I don't want a load of broken bricks when you drill through the wall."

Him: "Don't worry. There won't be a problem, and if there is, it'll be put right by me."

As it turned out, neither part of that sentence was true. He drilled through from the inside, smashed out half a house brick and "put it right" by gobbing a load of clear silicone in the crater in the style of a meringue.

I would've complained but this was after four weeks without a connection following a house-move because the scheduled installation (note the word "scheduled") hadn't taken place because they had no record of the installation. I was eventually told, "Just because we sent you an acknowledgement doesn't mean we got your original message."

Installation aside, the actual service is good and works most of the time. But if you have a problem, choose the "I'm thinking of leaving you" option to be put through to someone who can make a decision rather than any other option which is routed through to the Dithering Powerless Unmotivated ****wit Department. Oh, and Technical Services is based in India and is manned by surly young men who are all, bizarrely, called Jason but are very good at saying, "I've tested your line and there is not a problem," in a Michael Bates accent, which comes as great comfort as you sit there considering its complete non-functionality.

But the joy of using ntl - a company that thought it could improve its image by rebranding under the name of a minge-chinned, tax-evading chancer with a string of failed businesses - is that you don't have to trade with BT who, in my experience, are somewhat lower down the evolutionary ladder than the intestinal parasites in the colon of a sewer rat.

I still miss Ionica.

Peter Andrews wrote:


Their best deal is a package of phone, TV and broadband: albeit I have a
phone line and TV box that I don't use, if I get rid of these my cost
goes up!!

More confusion marketing!

What are the actual relative costs?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 11/09/2014 08:22, mike wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 7:47:12 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:


However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The

cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as far as

2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM do not

know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down tarmac is what

they call good.



You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows

****.

+1

I've had two ntl/Virgin Media installations now.

The cable from the street to the house is run in that corrugated green "spade-proof" conduit. Some of this will be beneath the lawn/flower beds.

Me: "I don't want a load of broken bricks when you drill through the wall."

Him: "Don't worry. There won't be a problem, and if there is, it'll be put right by me."

As it turned out, neither part of that sentence was true. He drilled through from the inside, smashed out half a house brick and "put it right" by gobbing a load of clear silicone in the crater in the style of a meringue.

I would've complained but this was after four weeks without a connection following a house-move because the scheduled installation (note the word "scheduled") hadn't taken place because they had no record of the installation. I was eventually told, "Just because we sent you an acknowledgement doesn't mean we got your original message."

Installation aside, the actual service is good and works most of the time. But if you have a problem, choose the "I'm thinking of leaving you" option to be put through to someone who can make a decision rather than any other option which is routed through to the Dithering Powerless Unmotivated ****wit Department. Oh, and Technical Services is based in India and is manned by surly young men who are all, bizarrely, called Jason but are very good at saying, "I've tested your line and there is not a problem," in a Michael Bates accent, which comes as great comfort as you sit there considering its complete non-functionality.

But the joy of using ntl - a company that thought it could improve its image by rebranding under the name of a minge-chinned, tax-evading chancer with a string of failed businesses - is that you don't have to trade with BT who, in my experience, are somewhat lower down the evolutionary ladder than the intestinal parasites in the colon of a sewer rat.

I still miss Ionica.


*applause*

On 11/09/2014 07:59, Lobster wrote:
On 10 Sep 2014, Bill grunted:

On the other hand I have been with VM, previously NTL, for longer than I
can remember, 15 years +/- a year or so. I've noticed maybe 2 short,
less than a day, outages in this time and apart from a rather
frustrating incident where my connection kept dropping every 10 minutes
or so and the call centre was positively useless I have no complaints
against them.

I'd have added "+1" to that, except my own experience doesn't include the
'frustrating incident'.

I've heard it said that the standard of VM's service is heavily dependent
on the origin of their infrastructure; NTL's was supposed to be very
reliable but those set up by other outfits who ended up under Branson were
a different matter.

Might be worthwhile the OP researching that angle a bit?

I'm with VM, ex Telewest/Blueyounder, and TBH, it's fine, service-wise.

Chris Bartram wrote:

I'm with VM, ex Telewest/Blueyounder, and TBH, it's fine, service-wise.

I think something must have changed with VM's offering, two chaps I work
with in different offices, who you'd describe as heavy data and
streaming users, one a footie fan the other not, and previously almost
evangelical about VM have both decided to dump them and return to BT,
something seems to have annoyed them both, combination of new pricing
and not wanting the customer to drop parts of the bundle I think.

"GMM" wrote in message ...

On 10/09/2014 21:52, Jabba wrote:
GMM wrote


We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.


You're kidding yourself if you believe VM are any better than BT. It's
nothing to be offline for days at a time and be lied to by their call
centre.

This is one site that follows VM problems

http://downdetector.co.uk/problems/virgin-media

I'm sure there are others.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/


I wouldn't imagine for a moment that both organisations are not as bad
as each other. Experience here, however, shows that the ageing BT
infrastructure causes an almost constant string of problems, which also
take days to resolve. I would just be playing the odds that the VM
infrastructure is substantially newer and so *may* give fewer
reliability issues, combined with better performance if/when it does
work as advertised.
Ironically, the BT exchange is less than 200m away and we're in the
middle of the city, but we have lost broadband and/or phone service for
a few days every 2 - 3 months, on average, over the 3 years we have
lived here. Since pretty much every other ISP relies on the BT network,
VM seems the only alternative to try.

Just wondering if neighbours are suffering the same problems.

On Thursday, 11 September 2014 08:30:42 UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Peter Andrews wrote:





Their best deal is a package of phone, TV and broadband: albeit I have a

phone line and TV box that I don't use, if I get rid of these my cost

goes up!!



More confusion marketing!



What are the actual relative costs?

I have basic broadban with them. I wish I had dropped a hole through the bedroom floor so I can have the choice of siting the router but settled for the top of the nearest cupboard to the inlet.

An SDS only user armed with what I presume would have been cable clips all around the rooms would have been the alternative. I supplied the drill bit to bring the cable through the cupboard. And even then there was only just enough cable supplied to have the modem sit on top of the hole.

I had to look for a long enough length of cable to reach the modem from the computer. If what has been stated here is true for the garden/access from the street, you need to put a conduit in ready for when the fitter comes and, if you have an SDS, an inlet to the part of the house you will want to site your computer.

It IS true about the silicon. They cover it with a shroud but it may easily get knocked about if you don't make sure it is in a relatively safe place. You might try Zen or any other decent company if you are unhappy with the rumours of outages. Virgin will ban certain sites for assumed copyright violations.

I don't know if Zen will leave you to decide what you want to watch but I have heard really good things about them. I can't imagine anyone going back to BT or Talk Talk unless it is for reasons of security and pricing. It would be like going back to motorcycling from running a car. No not a real motorbike, one of those little step-throughs. And not just a car either; a large engined people carrier... with red stripes along the sides.

On Wednesday, 10 September 2014 19:15:09 UTC+1, GMM wrote:


I'm aware this sounds pretty poorly informed but my googling doesn't
seem to bring up much useful info, surprisingly, so I would be grateful
for any informed views.

If you have broadband you can arrange to use a variety of skype type aternatives to a phoneline but having the phone with the BB is just as cheap or cheaper plus of course your call costs -skype is free as are the Linux and other versions.

You can find online movies for free if free to air isn't good enough though why a human being would want to watch TV is beyond me. If I was interested enough in sports I would prefer to watch it in a pub if the alternative is paying Rupert Murdoch or whoever for their monopoly.

(How the hell the BBC/National Govt let that happen is beyond me. And I would withdraw my approval of any sport/team that went along with it. But that is a matter of politics and religion.)

You can get Netflix if that will light your fire. Never tried it after realising they don't do Linux. (To hear them explain it, it is all the fault of all the free developers at Linux not supporting them. That put me off. Well it would wouldn't it. Some Asian from who knows where telling me a load of ****...)

Virgin are not Comcast, not AOL and not Time Warner. The US has a problem with what is sees as society and their governments are much worse than ours in every respect.

"mike" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 7:47:12 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:


However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The

cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as far
as

2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM do not

know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down tarmac is what

they call good.



You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows

****.

+1

I've had two ntl/Virgin Media installations now.

The cable from the street to the house is run in that corrugated green
"spade-proof" conduit. Some of this will be beneath the lawn/flower beds.

Me: "I don't want a load of broken bricks when you drill through the wall."

Him: "Don't worry. There won't be a problem, and if there is, it'll be put
right by me."

As it turned out, neither part of that sentence was true. He drilled
through from the inside, smashed out half a house brick and "put it right"
by gobbing a load of clear silicone in the crater in the style of a
meringue.

I would've complained but this was after four weeks without a connection
following a house-move because the scheduled installation (note the word
"scheduled") hadn't taken place because they had no record of the
installation. I was eventually told, "Just because we sent you an
acknowledgement doesn't mean we got your original message."

Installation aside, the actual service is good and works most of the time.
But if you have a problem, choose the "I'm thinking of leaving you" option
to be put through to someone who can make a decision rather than any other
option which is routed through to the Dithering Powerless Unmotivated
****wit Department. Oh, and Technical Services is based in India and is
manned by surly young men who are all, bizarrely, called Jason but are very
good at saying, "I've tested your line and there is not a problem," in a
Michael Bates accent, which comes as great comfort as you sit there
considering its complete non-functionality.

But the joy of using ntl - a company that thought it could improve its image
by rebranding under the name of a minge-chinned, tax-evading chancer with a
string of failed businesses - is that you don't have to trade with BT who,
in my experience, are somewhat lower down the evolutionary ladder than the
intestinal parasites in the colon of a sewer rat.

I still miss Ionica.

They have 1st class technical support centers in Wales, Scotland and I think
Liverpool.

"Mr Pounder" wrote in message
...

They have 1st class technical support centers in Wales, Scotland and I
think Liverpool.

****inell, i think i'd understand the indians better

In article , Chris Bartram news@delete-
me.piglet-net.net scribeth thus
On 10/09/14 21:25, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 8:14:50 PM UTC+1, Chris Bartram wrote:
You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.
Yep, when I moved the phone to them they wanted to cable-tie it to the
drainpipe.

Raise you a BT fitter who cable-tied a dropwire to a gas pipe.

Owain



Well, BT are the old hands at not giving a ****.

What goes wrong these day's is that the work is "subbed" out and the
installers aren't that well trained, if at all.

I've just seen this recently were it took them 6 tries to get a fibre
service up and running;(...


--
Tony Sayer

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...
Virgin are not Comcast, not AOL and not Time Warner.

Nope. They're currently owned by Liberty Global whose HQ is in
NYC USA.

Branson's main remaining interest is in skimming off his licence
fee for the use of his brand name. As even nowadays, as for the
past 40 years, the punters still don't realise that a grinning
bearded buffoon (as if), dressed in jeans and a jumper and self
proclaimed peoples' friend, is happily ripping them off just as
much, if not more so, than the "bad guys" in suits


michael adams

....

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Chris Bartram wrote:

I'm with VM, ex Telewest/Blueyounder, and TBH, it's fine, service-wise.

I think something must have changed with VM's offering, two chaps I work with in
different offices, who you'd describe as heavy data and streaming users, one a footie
fan the other not, and previously almost evangelical about VM have both decided to dump
them and return to BT, something seems to have annoyed them both, combination of new
pricing and not wanting the customer to drop parts of the bundle I think.

Maybe they finally got round to reading the small print.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2yv7wi1.jpg

and that's only the back page. Theres more at the bottom
of every page inside.

I live in a cabled area and get monthly begging letters
from VM imploring me to join. These take all forms.
Big white A4 envelopes, small brown envelopes, all
attempting to disguise what they really are. Despite the
fact that Branson now only has a peripheral interest in
VM, all the evidence I've ever seen shows him to be a
snake, a tax dodging penny-pinching snake at that. Such
that I wouldn't touch anythinhg he'd ever been connected
with, with a bargepole.


michael adams

....

In article , mike
scribeth thus
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 7:47:12 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:


However for your installation just expect the job to be done badly. The

cable will be laid just under any turf (sometimes they actually go as far as

2 inches down) and sometime as deep as 1cm under any driveway. VM do not

know what the words "make good" mean. A bit of stamped down tarmac is what

they call good.



You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows

****.

+1

I've had two ntl/Virgin Media installations now.

The cable from the street to the house is run in that corrugated green "spade-
proof" conduit. Some of this will be beneath the lawn/flower beds.

Me: "I don't want a load of broken bricks when you drill through the wall."

Him: "Don't worry. There won't be a problem, and if there is, it'll be put
right by me."

As it turned out, neither part of that sentence was true. He drilled through
from the inside, smashed out half a house brick and "put it right" by gobbing a
load of clear silicone in the crater in the style of a meringue.

I would've complained but this was after four weeks without a connection
following a house-move because the scheduled installation (note the word
"scheduled") hadn't taken place because they had no record of the installation.
I was eventually told, "Just because we sent you an acknowledgement doesn't mean
we got your original message."

Installation aside, the actual service is good and works most of the time. But
if you have a problem, choose the "I'm thinking of leaving you" option to be put
through to someone who can make a decision rather than any other option which is
routed through to the Dithering Powerless Unmotivated ****wit Department. Oh,
and Technical Services is based in India and is manned by surly young men who
are all, bizarrely, called Jason but are very good at saying, "I've tested your
line and there is not a problem," in a Michael Bates accent, which comes as
great comfort as you sit there considering its complete non-functionality.

But the joy of using ntl - a company that thought it could improve its image by
rebranding under the name of a minge-chinned, tax-evading chancer with a string
of failed businesses - is that you don't have to trade with BT who, in my
experience, are somewhat lower down the evolutionary ladder than the intestinal
parasites in the colon of a sewer rat.

What you mean Voodofone;?. All telecoms co's are like bank's these days
its whose "least worse" that matters;!..

I still miss Ionica.


Waay to late into the market, mismanaged and non expandable in their
concepts best left dead and buried 'tho you can see their equipment
around still;!..


Amazing their website is still there!..

http://www.ionica.co.uk/
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Lobster
scribeth thus
On 10 Sep 2014, Bill grunted:

On the other hand I have been with VM, previously NTL, for longer than I
can remember, 15 years +/- a year or so. I've noticed maybe 2 short,
less than a day, outages in this time and apart from a rather
frustrating incident where my connection kept dropping every 10 minutes
or so and the call centre was positively useless I have no complaints
against them.

I'd have added "+1" to that, except my own experience doesn't include the
'frustrating incident'.

I've heard it said that the standard of VM's service is heavily dependent
on the origin of their infrastructure; NTL's was supposed to be very
reliable but those set up by other outfits who ended up under Branson were
a different matter.

Might be worthwhile the OP researching that angle a bit?


There is a an element of truth in that, some build outs were done better
than others. In the original scheme of things there were several
different companies like Comcast, Bell Cablemedia Jones cable and Nynex
etc..

--
Tony Sayer

In article , michael adams
scribeth thus

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...
Virgin are not Comcast, not AOL and not Time Warner.

Nope. They're currently owned by Liberty Global whose HQ is in
NYC USA.

Branson's main remaining interest is in skimming off his licence
fee for the use of his brand name. As even nowadays, as for the
past 40 years, the punters still don't realise that a grinning
bearded buffoon (as if), dressed in jeans and a jumper and self
proclaimed peoples' friend, is happily ripping them off just as
much, if not more so, than the "bad guys" in suits


Yep but he's got more money that thee and me and us lot put together.

You can't blame sharks for what they are or what they do;!.

--
Tony Sayer

In article sting.com,
Jabba scribeth thus
GMM wrote


We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.


You're kidding yourself if you believe VM are any better than BT. It's
nothing to be offline for days at a time and be lied to by their call
centre.

This is one site that follows VM problems

http://downdetector.co.uk/problems/virgin-media

I'm sure there are others.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/



Well we've had VM since 1996 and in that time its been down around 6 odd
times sometimes Padrig has been too happy with his digger, and a very
few times their fault but overall its been fine.

We have the phone line thrown in as its cheaper and it us used sometimes
for incoming calls but I don't recall a time when thats been down at
all!.
--
Tony Sayer

Snipped

I don't know if Zen will leave you to decide what you want to watch but I have
heard really good things about them. I can't imagine anyone going back to BT or
Talk Talk unless it is for reasons of security and pricing. It would be like
going back to motorcycling from running a car. No not a real motorbike, one of
those little step-throughs. And not just a car either; a large engined people
carrier... with red stripes along the sides.


Zen are a very good ISP and we use them elsewhere. However they use BT
cables and plant so if your BB speed is slow then Zen won't make it any
better. However their customer service is one of the best around so in
that respect can't fault them.

FWIW we can get Fibre here now but due to distance limitations it will
only be the 38 meg service so no improvement for us, the up on VM is
still slower but we don't find that a problem.

However..

I know some people out in the sticks who'd Kill to get their service I
know of one at the moment 400 odd K on a good day thats if it doesn't
drop out and no prospect an anything better for a long time to come
yet;!..
--
Tony Sayer

In article sting.com,
Jabba wrote:
We've been offline for a bit because of (yet another) failure of the BT
infrastructure, so I've been thinking about switching it all to VM.
Probably no significant cost saving, but an outside chance of a more
reliable service since the network is significantly newer than BT's.


You're kidding yourself if you believe VM are any better than BT. It's
nothing to be offline for days at a time and be lied to by their call
centre.

Quite. We've had Virgin fibre round here for probably longer than most. I
don't use it - but neighbours who do seem to have plenty of complaints.

--
*The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11/09/2014 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Quite. We've had Virgin fibre round here for probably longer than most. I
don't use it - but neighbours who do seem to have plenty of complaints.

I literally cannot remember the last time we had a problem. I *think* it
was during a thunderstorm a few years ago when our leg of the operation
got cut off for a few hours.

What has always disappointed me is that you lose broadband if
electricity fails - lack of battery backup and/or electric feed along
the fibre to cabinets means that you cannot simply plug modem/router
into a UPS and keep going. Occasionally we have had a minor interruption
due to power failure and it isn't always the same power circuit as the
house.

Best support from them has been through their support forum, so long as
you can get to it...

--
Rod

In article ,
Chris Bartram wrote:
On 10/09/14 21:25, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 8:14:50 PM UTC+1, Chris Bartram wrote:
You will get fast Broadband from VM but their work will look like a cows
****.
Yep, when I moved the phone to them they wanted to cable-tie it to the
drainpipe.

Raise you a BT fitter who cable-tied a dropwire to a gas pipe.

Owain

Well, BT are the old hands at not giving a ****.

I've found them just fine here. First just with a phone, and now their
fibre broadband. Everything done efficiently.

Wish I could say the same about my previous ISPs.

--
*Aim Low, Reach Your Goals, Avoid Disappointment *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.