European Union to ban dozens of high-wattage household electrical
appliances in follow-up to controversial ban on powerful vacuum cleaners

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

http://tinyurl.com/kjc2g4y

On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".

Tim Watts wrote


On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".


I liked the hairdressers response. If they have to use hair dryers
longer because of the lack of power, they could suffer from RSI. That
could be a serious issue as most have limp wrists to start with...

On 29/08/14 16:11, Jabba wrote:
Tim Watts wrote


On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".


I liked the hairdressers response. If they have to use hair dryers
longer because of the lack of power, they could suffer from RSI. That
could be a serious issue as most have limp wrists to start with...



I don't think this one is actually the EU.

I think it's actually the UK gov trying to reduce peak demand because
they ****ed up the national grid and it might get dark randomly over the
coming winters.

Handy being able to blame the EU as it's as plausible as "Jimmy Saville
molested my hamster".

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On 29/08/14 16:11, Jabba wrote:
Tim Watts wrote


On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".


I liked the hairdressers response. If they have to use hair dryers
longer because of the lack of power, they could suffer from RSI. That
could be a serious issue as most have limp wrists to start with...



I don't think this one is actually the EU.

I think it's actually the UK gov trying to reduce peak demand because
they ****ed up the national grid and it might get dark randomly over
the coming winters.

Handy being able to blame the EU as it's as plausible as "Jimmy Saville
molested my hamster".

I don't know the exact truth of the matter, but a few days ago, I was
listening to a radio phone-in. One caller claimed that the EU decreed
that toilet cisterns had to be reduce in volume (75%?). As a result,
many tended to need two flushes - using more water than before.

The same is certainly true of kettles. The least energy is used by the
more powerful kettles (which boil very quickly). In fact, if you reduce
the power below a certain level, the heat being lost by radiation and
convection of the surrounding air exceeds that being supplied, and it
will never ever boil (although this could be offset by adding sufficient
thermal insulation).

As the previous poster suggests, this may be a move to reduce peak power
consumption - but this simply faulty logic. The result will simply be
appliances being used for longer in order to fulfil their intended
purpose, As a result, at any one time, you might have (say) two 1kW
kettles on (overlapping use) instead of one 1.5kW followed by a second
1.5kW.
--
Ian

On 29/08/14 16:38, Ian Jackson wrote:

I don't know the exact truth of the matter, but a few days ago, I was
listening to a radio phone-in. One caller claimed that the EU decreed
that toilet cisterns had to be reduce in volume (75%?). As a result,
many tended to need two flushes - using more water than before.

True IME. I fitted a high level cistern at my house and it works with
one flush (and it is a standard low volume type).

On holiday, the low level bogs needed 2 flushes typically for anything
more than a No 1.

The same is certainly true of kettles. The least energy is used by the
more powerful kettles (which boil very quickly). In fact, if you reduce
the power below a certain level, the heat being lost by radiation and
convection of the surrounding air exceeds that being supplied, and it
will never ever boil (although this could be offset by adding sufficient
thermal insulation).

As the previous poster suggests, this may be a move to reduce peak power
consumption - but this simply faulty logic. The result will simply be
appliances being used for longer in order to fulfil their intended
purpose, As a result, at any one time, you might have (say) two 1kW
kettles on (overlapping use) instead of one 1.5kW followed by a second
1.5kW.

Indeed - unless the power is reduced so far at takes all night to boil,
in which case the elect companies will love it

On 29/08/2014 16:38, Ian Jackson wrote:


As the previous poster suggests, this may be a move to reduce peak power
consumption - but this simply faulty logic. The result will simply be
appliances being used for longer in order to fulfil their intended
purpose, As a result, at any one time, you might have (say) two 1kW
kettles on (overlapping use) instead of one 1.5kW followed by a second
1.5kW.

You must already have the new EU kettles, mines 3kW.
Takes about 30 seconds to boil a mug of tea.

On Friday, August 29, 2014 4:38:28 PM UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote:
I don't know the exact truth of the matter, but a few days ago, I was
listening to a radio phone-in. One caller claimed that the EU decreed
that toilet cisterns had to be reduce in volume (75%?). As a result,
many tended to need two flushes - using more water than before.

And washing machines, which used to fill up to halfway up the porthole, now 'wash' and 'rinse' clothes in about a teaspoon of water, spinning them at high speed to get the detergent out, causing greater wear on the machine and clothes.

I and many others pour additional water in through the detergent drawer to get my clothes splashing through the Surf.

Owain

On 29/08/2014 16:38, Ian Jackson wrote:
The least energy is used by the more powerful kettles (which boil very
quickly).

Perhaps one of the biggest energy usage reductions is achieved by making
it as easy as possible to assess how much water is in the kettle. I
certainly remember lots of people filling their kettles up way over what
they needed - often because they were being over-cautious about making
sure the element was covered. The introduction of transparent windows
and elements in the base have made it possible to get the amount of
water right more of the time.

One gripe I have is that the scales vary - let us simply have a numeric
scale based on litres. Cups are so variable it really doesn't help very
much having a cup scale.

--
Rod

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Tim Watts
writes
On 29/08/14 16:11, Jabba wrote:
Tim Watts wrote


On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".


I liked the hairdressers response. If they have to use hair dryers
longer because of the lack of power, they could suffer from RSI. That
could be a serious issue as most have limp wrists to start with...



I don't think this one is actually the EU.

I think it's actually the UK gov trying to reduce peak demand because they
****ed up the national grid and it might get dark randomly over the coming
winters.

Handy being able to blame the EU as it's as plausible as "Jimmy Saville
molested my hamster".

I don't know the exact truth of the matter, but a few days ago, I was
listening to a radio phone-in. One caller claimed that the EU decreed that
toilet cisterns had to be reduce in volume (75%?). As a result, many
tended to need two flushes - using more water than before.

The same is certainly true of kettles. The least energy is used by the
more powerful kettles (which boil very quickly). In fact, if you reduce
the power below a certain level, the heat being lost by radiation and
convection of the surrounding air exceeds that being supplied, and it will
never ever boil (although this could be offset by adding sufficient
thermal insulation).

As the previous poster suggests, this may be a move to reduce peak power
consumption - but this simply faulty logic. The result will simply be
appliances being used for longer in order to fulfil their intended
purpose, As a result, at any one time, you might have (say) two 1kW
kettles on (overlapping use) instead of one 1.5kW followed by a second
1.5kW.

The use of "Jugs " compared with keetle is a big improvement in efficiency.
Maybe this is where they're heading.

On Friday, 29 August 2014 16:15:10 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 16:11, Jabba wrote:

Tim Watts wrote





On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-

high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html



Is it April 1st?



Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water

is about *energy" not "power".





I liked the hairdressers response. If they have to use hair dryers

longer because of the lack of power, they could suffer from RSI. That

could be a serious issue as most have limp wrists to start with...







I don't think this one is actually the EU.



I think it's actually the UK gov trying to reduce peak demand because

they ****ed up the national grid and it might get dark randomly over the

coming winters.



Handy being able to blame the EU as it's as plausible as "Jimmy Saville
molested my hamster".

and JS molesting hamsters isn't possible ;-)

On 29/08/14 16:42, whisky-dave wrote:

and JS molesting hamsters isn't possible ;-)

Thankfully the only thing he can molest now are a few worms...

I liked the bit in the sitcom "Outnumbered" when someone said:

"Jimmy Savile didn't look like a paedophile did he?"

and Hugh Dennis's character replied:

"Um...YES!! He looked EXACTLY like a paedophile!"

On 29/08/2014 16:05, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".


The people behind this must be Greens, so probably not.

--
Colin Bignell

On 29/08/14 16:13, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 29/08/2014 16:05, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".


The people behind this must be Greens, so probably not.


Probably.

Sometimes it's possible to be innovative.

The new public bog hand dryers that blast a sheet of high speed tepid
air work a lot better than an old style monster that wafts slow hot air
vaguely over your hands.

Clearly "kettles" is dumb.

Hairdryers are unlikely to benefit as super high velocity tepid air is
not likely to help a stylist work well.

And smartphones? WTF?

That should be more or less self regulating as people desire more
battery life from a single charge so everyone's trying to do it with
lower power chips and screens. But there are limits. And this is trivial
background load nicely spread out over the night for the most part.

On 29/08/2014 16:19, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 16:13, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
....
The new public bog hand dryers that blast a sheet of high speed tepid
air work a lot better than an old style monster that wafts slow hot air
vaguely over your hands...

Paper towels remove more bacteria than either type of air dryer though.


--
Colin Bignell

On 29/08/14 16:33, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 29/08/2014 16:19, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 16:13, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
...
The new public bog hand dryers that blast a sheet of high speed tepid
air work a lot better than an old style monster that wafts slow hot air
vaguely over your hands...

Paper towels remove more bacteria than either type of air dryer though.

It is true that unmaintained air dryers are a horrible *source* of bugs too.

On 29/08/2014 16:33, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 29/08/2014 16:19, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 16:13, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
...
The new public bog hand dryers that blast a sheet of high speed tepid
air work a lot better than an old style monster that wafts slow hot air
vaguely over your hands...

Paper towels remove more bacteria than either type of air dryer though.


But in high volume areas e.g. motorway services, you would have paper
mountains. New & used.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 29/08/2014 16:33, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:

Paper towels remove more bacteria than either type of air dryer though.

...and take how much energy/raw materials, causing what pollution, to
produce?

In article ,
Nightjar \cpb\@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 29/08/2014 16:19, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 16:13, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname
here wrote:
...
The new public bog hand dryers that blast a sheet of
high speed tepid air work a lot better than an old
style monster that wafts slow hot air vaguely over your
hands...

Paper towels remove more bacteria than either type of air
dryer though.
And vigorous washing is more benefit than high temp water or
using a fancy DON'T CONTAMINATE YOUR DIRTY HANDS BY TOUCHING
A SOAP DISPENSER soap dispenser.

John

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

You're never too old to learn something stupid

On 29/08/2014 16:19, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 16:13, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 29/08/2014 16:05, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".


The people behind this must be Greens, so probably not.


Probably.

Sometimes it's possible to be innovative.

The new public bog hand dryers that blast a sheet of high speed tepid
air work a lot better than an old style monster that wafts slow hot air
vaguely over your hands.

Only Dyson could build a high velocity, spread the germs more, hand
dryer just as the NHS started to remove hand driers to prevent infection
spreading.
If you have a choice don't use them and use a paper towel as its a lot
safer.

In message , Huge
writes
On 2014-08-29, Tim Watts wrote:

The new public bog hand dryers that blast a sheet of high speed tepid
air work a lot better than an old style monster that wafts slow hot air
vaguely over your hands.

Other than the wet fingertips and the ringing noise in your ears from the
noise.

My wife absolutely dreads having to use the toilets in certain motorway
service stations. She has severe tinnitus, and the noise made by some of
the hand dryers in the confined space really sets it off. It's second
only to the Concorde taking off.
--
Ian

On 29/08/2014 19:07, Ian Jackson wrote:
My wife absolutely dreads having to use the toilets in certain motorway
service stations. She has severe tinnitus, and the noise made by some of
the hand dryers in the confined space really sets it off. It's second
only to the Concorde taking off.

Almost completely agreed - but for me not wife - and Concorde type noise
really doesn't upset me anything like vacuum cleaners and hair and hand
dryers.

--
Rod

On 29/08/14 18:35, Huge wrote:
On 2014-08-29, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/08/14 15:58, Jabba wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Is it April 1st?

Or do to EU morons not understand that heating a fixed volume of water
is about *energy" not "power".

Might I be a little silly and point out (no doubt not for the first or
last time) the apposite nature of your surname?

On 29/08/2014 15:58, Jabba wrote:
European Union to ban dozens of high-wattage household electrical
appliances in follow-up to controversial ban on powerful vacuum cleaners

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

http://tinyurl.com/kjc2g4y



Couldn't they save energy by not moving from Strasbourg to Brussels
every month?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 18:32:11 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Couldn't they save energy by not moving from Strasbourg to Brussels
every month?

I wouldn't mind betting they leave their lights and PCs on 24/7 in both
places!

--

TOJ.

"The Other John" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 18:32:11 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Couldn't they save energy by not moving from Strasbourg to Brussels
every month?

I wouldn't mind betting they leave their lights and PCs on 24/7 in both
places!

Well, where do you think that the phrase, "The lights are on, but..."
originated?

Surely, smart phones do not deserve to be on this list.
The other inefficient items are electric irons and heating devices in my
view..
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Jabba" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...
European Union to ban dozens of high-wattage household electrical
appliances in follow-up to controversial ban on powerful vacuum cleaners

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

http://tinyurl.com/kjc2g4y

Brian Gaff wrote:

Surely, smart phones do not deserve to be on this list.

Ah, but each house has multiple phones, and the chargers are left
plugged in even when they're not in use, just think how many kittens
they can save.

They don't think the manufacturers have spent the last 7 years getting
maximum battery life for these?

On 29/08/2014 15:58, Jabba wrote:
European Union to ban dozens of high-wattage household electrical
appliances in follow-up to controversial ban on powerful vacuum cleaners

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...538/EU-to-ban-
high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

http://tinyurl.com/kjc2g4y



When it comes to kettles, I have been thinking that an induction kettle
could be rather neat.

* The kettle itself could be very simple - pretty much a vessel with a
magnetic material near the base.
* It could be insulated all round for safety as well as heat retention.
* The kettle could be lighter than at least most available kettles. This
is an important factor having seen both mother and partner struggle with
standard kettles due to age/illness.
* A fairly simple chip device could communicate between the kettle and
its base (e.g. temperature).
* The types of control already used in many induction hobs could easily
provide accurate temperature control for those who want
less-than-boiling water.
* An optional second, perhaps smaller, kettle could be available for
heating milk (yeeuggh - but some people apparently like it). Obviously
with the option of the chip in that selecting the best heating profile
for milk.
* An optional third pan-type kettle (i.e. more like a pan but designed
to fit the base) could effectively provide a fifth burner for those who
find the standard four on a hob not quite enough at times.
* Maybe a stirrer device could be incorporated - to help avoid uneven
heating of milk but also, and here this is pure speculation, to make the
kettle less noisy.
* The base could incorporate a weighing sensor so you can know exactly
how much water is in the kettle.
* Optional extra small and extra large kettles could be made available.
Obviously extra large would take much longer to heat up but possibly
perfectly acceptable.

With all these advantages there is bound to be some cost. Given the
incredibly low price of Lidl/Aldi double burner induction hobs, and the
incredibly high price of many kettles, I don't think it would be
impossible to produce such a kettle within current kettle price ranges.
However, you are not going to get one at the £7.95 distress purchase end
of the market any time soon.

--
Rod

polygonum wrote:

When it comes to kettles, I have been thinking that an induction kettle
could be rather neat.

Since you appear to think creeping featuritus is a good thing, I suggest
you learn from this lot, crowdfund your technokettle to see how many
others fancy paying £299.95 for one ....

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryangrepper/coolest-cooler-21st-century-cooler-thats-actually

On 31/08/2014 09:29, Andy Burns wrote:
polygonum wrote:

When it comes to kettles, I have been thinking that an induction kettle
could be rather neat.

Since you appear to think creeping featuritus is a good thing, I suggest
you learn from this lot, crowdfund your technokettle to see how many
others fancy paying £299.95 for one ....

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryangrepper/coolest-cooler-21st-century-cooler-thats-actually


At least all the features I suggest are related to heating liquids! That
is totally bloody ridiculous.

--
Rod

On Sunday, August 31, 2014 10:06:00 AM UTC+1, polygonum wrote:
Since you appear to think creeping featuritus is a good thing, I suggest
you learn from this lot, crowdfund your technokettle to see how many
others fancy paying �299.95 for one ....
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryangrepper/coolest-cooler-21st-century-cooler-thats-actually
At least all the features I suggest are related to heating liquids! That
is totally bloody ridiculous.

Looks good to me. I wouldn't buy one, but in the US or Aus where the climate and social scene suit it I think it would go down well.

Perhaps I should set up a kickstarter for a Scottish equivalent - a long-life carrier bag printed on one side with Buckfast stockists and on the other with bus shelters.

Owain

On 31/08/2014 09:04, polygonum wrote:

* The kettle could be lighter than at least most available kettles. This
is an important factor having seen both mother and partner struggle with
standard kettles due to age/illness.

Buy them a Breville hotcup (bog standard one was £25 in Asda last week).
They produce one cup of *boiling* water at the press of the button in
about 40 seconds.

The more expensive versions allow you to adjust the volume dispensed,
with the cheap one just makes sure all their cups are big enough.

If they are really forgetful you might want to wire a microswitch to
detect the cup as the spill tray will overflow after a cup full.

You are supposed to fill them like a kettle but a cheap plastic jug
would probably be better.