From what I've read, "switches & other accessories" in zone 1 need to
be SELV, but luminaires just need to be IPX4 (if the area is not going
to be cleaned with jets of water). Does this mean that an IPX4 light
at 230 V is OK in zone 1, & not included in the "other accessories"?

On 03/07/14 10:31, Adam Funk wrote:
From what I've read, "switches & other accessories" in zone 1 need to
be SELV, but luminaires just need to be IPX4 (if the area is not going
to be cleaned with jets of water). Does this mean that an IPX4 light
at 230 V is OK in zone 1, & not included in the "other accessories"?


No. But you may be thinking of "above Zone 1" (see below).


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica...ight/Zones.pdf

has a very clear overview of zones and what you can do in each one.



Once you are over 2.25m IIRC you are technically out of zone and can do
what you like including over a bath or shower.

However, given many people have (or might add later) as shower fitting
over the bath (even if plugged on the taps) with the risk of water jets
hitting the ceiling, I *would* stick with SELV IPX5.

You really can't go wrong for a little extra effort of fitting a SELV
PSU and restricting your choice of fittings a bit.

On 2014-07-03, Tim Watts wrote:

On 03/07/14 10:31, Adam Funk wrote:
From what I've read, "switches & other accessories" in zone 1 need to
be SELV, but luminaires just need to be IPX4 (if the area is not going
to be cleaned with jets of water). Does this mean that an IPX4 light
at 230 V is OK in zone 1, & not included in the "other accessories"?


No. But you may be thinking of "above Zone 1" (see below).

No, the ceiling is too low for that!


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica...ight/Zones.pdf

has a very clear overview of zones and what you can do in each one.



Once you are over 2.25m IIRC you are technically out of zone and can do
what you like including over a bath or shower.

However, given many people have (or might add later) as shower fitting
over the bath (even if plugged on the taps) with the risk of water jets
hitting the ceiling, I *would* stick with SELV IPX5.

Actually the shower has just been moved. We used to have an electric
shower at one end & bath taps at the other; now we have a combined
bath-shower thing at one end & I've removed the old light that was
close to the new shower.


You really can't go wrong for a little extra effort of fitting a SELV
PSU and restricting your choice of fittings a bit.

Sure, the PSU could go in the top of the air cupboard & the cable run
in the ceiling would be about 1 metre. Can you recommend a good
surface-mount luminaire for this? I want to drill a small hole in the
ceiling for a cable, not cut a big hole for a recessed light (I hate
those things for various reasons).

On 03/07/14 14:21, Adam Funk wrote:
Sure, the PSU could go in the top of the air cupboard & the cable run
in the ceiling would be about 1 metre. Can you recommend a good
surface-mount luminaire for this? I want to drill a small hole in the
ceiling for a cable, not cut a big hole for a recessed light (I hate
those things for various reasons).



Surface? Sorry - I cannot by personal experience.

http://www.nostraforma.com/en/fontan...v-p-12442.html

is silly money.

Most seem to be recessed - though there are some LED ones that are
barely much deeper than the thickness of the plasterboard which makes me
wonder why the tw**s don't make a surface mount version!

I have the same problem - want a load of smallish surface mount lights,
12V for under soffit lighting.

I'm pretty much looking at car lamps[1] now with a retro fit LED bulb
(12V, should work fine off a SELV PSU)!

Old style reversing and marker lights - think dalek ears as Adam observed...

On Thursday, July 3, 2014 3:26:40 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/07/14 14:21, Adam Funk wrote:
Sure, the PSU could go in the top of the air cupboard & the cable run
in the ceiling would be about 1 metre. Can you recommend a good
surface-mount luminaire for this? I want to drill a small hole in the
ceiling for a cable, not cut a big hole for a recessed light (I hate
those things for various reasons).

Surface? Sorry - I cannot by personal experience.
http://www.nostraforma.com/en/fontan...v-p-12442.html
is silly money.
Most seem to be recessed - though there are some LED ones that are
barely much deeper than the thickness of the plasterboard which makes me
wonder why the tw**s don't make a surface mount version!
I have the same problem - want a load of smallish surface mount lights,
12V for under soffit lighting.
I'm pretty much looking at car lamps[1] now with a retro fit LED bulb
(12V, should work fine off a SELV PSU)!
Old style reversing and marker lights - think dalek ears as Adam observed...

There's too much crap lighting in the shops


NT

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
From what I've read, "switches & other accessories" in zone 1 need to
be SELV, but luminaires just need to be IPX4 (if the area is not going
to be cleaned with jets of water). Does this mean that an IPX4 light
at 230 V is OK in zone 1, & not included in the "other accessories"?




Take this light

http://www.anselluk.com/products/AECE27SC/p389

it's rated at IP44 but according to Ansell it must only be fitted in zone 2
or above

http://www.anselluk.com/ProductDatas...9&type=product

Note 3 on the link that Tim gave applies to the the light.

--
Adam

On 03/07/14 19:53, wrote:
On Thursday, July 3, 2014 3:26:40 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/07/14 14:21, Adam Funk wrote:
Sure, the PSU could go in the top of the air cupboard & the cable run
in the ceiling would be about 1 metre. Can you recommend a good
surface-mount luminaire for this? I want to drill a small hole in the
ceiling for a cable, not cut a big hole for a recessed light (I hate
those things for various reasons).

Surface? Sorry - I cannot by personal experience.
http://www.nostraforma.com/en/fontan...v-p-12442.html
is silly money.
Most seem to be recessed - though there are some LED ones that are
barely much deeper than the thickness of the plasterboard which makes me
wonder why the tw**s don't make a surface mount version!
I have the same problem - want a load of smallish surface mount lights,
12V for under soffit lighting.
I'm pretty much looking at car lamps[1] now with a retro fit LED bulb
(12V, should work fine off a SELV PSU)!
Old style reversing and marker lights - think dalek ears as Adam observed...

There's too much crap lighting in the shops

There's too much crap lighting everywhere...

There are so many voids of product type. Surface mount low profile being
one.

On 03/07/14 19:53, wrote:
On Thursday, July 3, 2014 3:26:40 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/07/14 14:21, Adam Funk wrote:
Sure, the PSU could go in the top of the air cupboard & the cable run
in the ceiling would be about 1 metre. Can you recommend a good
surface-mount luminaire for this? I want to drill a small hole in the
ceiling for a cable, not cut a big hole for a recessed light (I hate
those things for various reasons).

Surface? Sorry - I cannot by personal experience.
http://www.nostraforma.com/en/fontan...v-p-12442.html
is silly money.
Most seem to be recessed - though there are some LED ones that are
barely much deeper than the thickness of the plasterboard which makes me
wonder why the tw**s don't make a surface mount version!
I have the same problem - want a load of smallish surface mount lights,
12V for under soffit lighting.
I'm pretty much looking at car lamps[1] now with a retro fit LED bulb
(12V, should work fine off a SELV PSU)!
Old style reversing and marker lights - think dalek ears as Adam observed...

There's too much crap lighting in the shops

And it's impossible to buy a decent LED desk spot lamp. Despite the fact
that torches have had superior LEDs for years.

My maglite 4-D can light up half a field at night on a set of D cells
that are now 2 years old (the maglite is about 20 years old, the LED
module is a 3rd party aftermarket).

Yet desklamps have a couple of pitiful 0.2" "superbright" (when Maplin
used the term) LEDs.

On 03/07/14 19:53, wrote:
On Thursday, July 3, 2014 3:26:40 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/07/14 14:21, Adam Funk wrote:
Sure, the PSU could go in the top of the air cupboard & the cable run
in the ceiling would be about 1 metre. Can you recommend a good
surface-mount luminaire for this? I want to drill a small hole in the
ceiling for a cable, not cut a big hole for a recessed light (I hate
those things for various reasons).

Surface? Sorry - I cannot by personal experience.
http://www.nostraforma.com/en/fontan...v-p-12442.html
is silly money.
Most seem to be recessed - though there are some LED ones that are
barely much deeper than the thickness of the plasterboard which makes me
wonder why the tw**s don't make a surface mount version!
I have the same problem - want a load of smallish surface mount lights,
12V for under soffit lighting.
I'm pretty much looking at car lamps[1] now with a retro fit LED bulb
(12V, should work fine off a SELV PSU)!
Old style reversing and marker lights - think dalek ears as Adam observed...

There's too much crap lighting in the shops

I'm with House MD - everyone is either a liar or a moron. Or both.

On 2014-07-03, Tim Watts wrote:

On 03/07/14 14:21, Adam Funk wrote:
Sure, the PSU could go in the top of the air cupboard & the cable run
in the ceiling would be about 1 metre. Can you recommend a good
surface-mount luminaire for this? I want to drill a small hole in the
ceiling for a cable, not cut a big hole for a recessed light (I hate
those things for various reasons).



Surface? Sorry - I cannot by personal experience.

http://www.nostraforma.com/en/fontan...v-p-12442.html

is silly money.

Good gravy.

Most seem to be recessed - though there are some LED ones that are
barely much deeper than the thickness of the plasterboard which makes me
wonder why the tw**s don't make a surface mount version!

Quite. I guess you could make it surface mount by enclosing it in a
thin box?

On 2014-07-03, ARW wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
From what I've read, "switches & other accessories" in zone 1 need to
be SELV, but luminaires just need to be IPX4 (if the area is not going
to be cleaned with jets of water). Does this mean that an IPX4 light
at 230 V is OK in zone 1, & not included in the "other accessories"?




Take this light

http://www.anselluk.com/products/AECE27SC/p389

it's rated at IP44 but according to Ansell it must only be fitted in zone 2
or above

http://www.anselluk.com/ProductDatas...9&type=product

Note 3 on the link that Tim gave applies to the the light.

Thanks.

On 08/07/14 16:10, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2014-07-03, Tim Watts wrote:

On 03/07/14 14:21, Adam Funk wrote:
Sure, the PSU could go in the top of the air cupboard & the cable run
in the ceiling would be about 1 metre. Can you recommend a good
surface-mount luminaire for this? I want to drill a small hole in the
ceiling for a cable, not cut a big hole for a recessed light (I hate
those things for various reasons).



Surface? Sorry - I cannot by personal experience.

http://www.nostraforma.com/en/fontan...v-p-12442.html

is silly money.

Good gravy.

Most seem to be recessed - though there are some LED ones that are
barely much deeper than the thickness of the plasterboard which makes me
wonder why the tw**s don't make a surface mount version!

Quite. I guess you could make it surface mount by enclosing it in a
thin box?


That's how some "surface mount" GX53 under cabinet lamps are. They are
designed so you cut a massive hole in the cabinet or PB.

The "surface mount" option is a bezel that screws to the ceiling or
cabinet and the fitting clips in.

For a fitting that's all of 30mm deep!!! How stupid.

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2014-07-03, ARW wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
From what I've read, "switches & other accessories" in zone 1 need to
be SELV, but luminaires just need to be IPX4 (if the area is not going
to be cleaned with jets of water). Does this mean that an IPX4 light
at 230 V is OK in zone 1, & not included in the "other accessories"?




Take this light

http://www.anselluk.com/products/AECE27SC/p389

it's rated at IP44 but according to Ansell it must only be fitted in zone
2
or above

http://www.anselluk.com/ProductDatas...9&type=product

Note 3 on the link that Tim gave applies to the the light.

Thanks.


BTW have you been away for a long dirty weekend and not taken your
laptop/gone to a place with no wifi?

--
Adam

On 2014-07-08, ARW wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2014-07-03, ARW wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
From what I've read, "switches & other accessories" in zone 1 need to
be SELV, but luminaires just need to be IPX4 (if the area is not going
to be cleaned with jets of water). Does this mean that an IPX4 light
at 230 V is OK in zone 1, & not included in the "other accessories"?




Take this light

http://www.anselluk.com/products/AECE27SC/p389

it's rated at IP44 but according to Ansell it must only be fitted in zone
2
or above

http://www.anselluk.com/ProductDatas...9&type=product

Note 3 on the link that Tim gave applies to the the light.

Thanks.


BTW have you been away for a long dirty weekend and not taken your
laptop/gone to a place with no wifi?

No, it just takes me a while sometimes to follow up.