[Rick Hughes[_5_]]

I have used a commercial additive via a hose dispenser when flushing my
boat engine after use in slat water .....

That product is no more, and looked at the competition ...
http://www.salt-away.co.uk/

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this is more
expensive than single malt.


Just wondering what would actually be in this, and whether I could make
up my own mix.



--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[dennis@home]

On 27/05/2014 20:04, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have used a commercial additive via a hose dispenser when flushing my
boat engine after use in slat water .....

That product is no more, and looked at the competition ...
http://www.salt-away.co.uk/

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this is more
expensive than single malt.


Just wondering what would actually be in this, and whether I could make
up my own mix.



WD40?

Buy a RO filter and flush the salt out with pure water.

[Graham.[_5_]]

On Tue, 27 May 2014 20:04:13 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I have used a commercial additive via a hose dispenser when flushing my
boat engine after use in slat water .....

That product is no more, and looked at the competition ...
http://www.salt-away.co.uk/

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this is more
expensive than single malt.


Just wondering what would actually be in this, and whether I could make
up my own mix.


Trisodium Phosphate.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm

click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

[Adrian]

On Tue, 27 May 2014 20:30:28 +0100, Graham. wrote:

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this is more
expensive than single malt.

I don't think you'll get much of a malt for £13 for a 70cl bottle, tbh.

[GMM[_3_]]

On 27/05/2014 20:30, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 27 May 2014 20:04:13 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I have used a commercial additive via a hose dispenser when flushing my
boat engine after use in slat water .....

That product is no more, and looked at the competition ...
http://www.salt-away.co.uk/

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this is more
expensive than single malt.


Just wondering what would actually be in this, and whether I could make
up my own mix.


Trisodium Phosphate.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm

click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.

Interesting that the SDS was written in English (eg colour not color)
for the American regulator. Does that mean they actually can spell
properly but only when nobody's looking?

I'm still wondering which single malts come in at 74 quid for 4 litres
(though I take the general point)

[Rick Hughes[_5_]]

On 27/05/2014 20:51, GMM wrote:
On 27/05/2014 20:30, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 27 May 2014 20:04:13 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I have used a commercial additive via a hose dispenser when flushing my
boat engine after use in slat water .....

That product is no more, and looked at the competition ...
http://www.salt-away.co.uk/

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this is more
expensive than single malt.


Just wondering what would actually be in this, and whether I could make
up my own mix.


Trisodium Phosphate.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm

click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.

Interesting that the SDS was written in English (eg colour not color)
for the American regulator. Does that mean they actually can spell
properly but only when nobody's looking?

I'm still wondering which single malts come in at 74 quid for 4 litres
(though I take the general point)




well £19.47 a litre for SaltAway ... I was thinking of £14 a bottle of
Single malt ... but then my mistake ... the bottles are only 330ml

I don't drink so my error.


--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[Capitol]

Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 27 May 2014 20:30:28 +0100, Graham. wrote:

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this is more
expensive than single malt.

I don't think you'll get much of a malt for £13 for a 70cl bottle, tbh.

Lidl?

[Capitol]

Rick Hughes wrote:
On 27/05/2014 20:51, GMM wrote:
On 27/05/2014 20:30, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 27 May 2014 20:04:13 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I have used a commercial additive via a hose dispenser when flushing my
boat engine after use in slat water .....

That product is no more, and looked at the competition ...
http://www.salt-away.co.uk/

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this is more
expensive than single malt.


Just wondering what would actually be in this, and whether I could make
up my own mix.


Trisodium Phosphate.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm

click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.

Interesting that the SDS was written in English (eg colour not color)
for the American regulator. Does that mean they actually can spell
properly but only when nobody's looking?

I'm still wondering which single malts come in at 74 quid for 4 litres
(though I take the general point)




well £19.47 a litre for SaltAway ... I was thinking of £14 a bottle of
Single malt ... but then my mistake ... the bottles are only 330ml

I don't drink so my error.



I only pay $30 for a litre of Southern comfort.

[Rick Hughes[_5_]]

On 27/05/2014 20:30, Graham. wrote:

Trisodium Phosphate.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm

click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.



66% water ... £74 for 4L ... and more than half of it is water.

So you can see keen to find a home brew version.


the TSP quantity in mix is unknown, and the other key item 'corrosion
inhibitor' (Tall Oil, Sodium Salt) again don't know quantity of it.


OK ... the file gives
3% TSP (cheap and easy to buy)
12% Tall Oil, Sodium Salt (seems it's a by-product from wood pulp
cellulose extraction)
10% coupling agent.

So again maybe there is a Chemist lurking who could advise how I could
make up my home brew and what the 'coupling agent' would be to create
the mix.

I could make myself up 25Litre .. last me my lifetime.







--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Tue, 27 May 2014 23:00:20 +0100, Capitol wrote:

No doubt does a good job but at £74 for less than 4 Litre this
is
more expensive than single malt.

I don't think you'll get much of a malt for £13 for a 70cl
bottle,

Lidl?

Both interpetations of "get much of a malt" in Lidl I would of
thought. Both quantity and quality ... B-)

TBH what is suposed to happen if you don't flush the engine after
running in salt water? Surely by the time you've pottled out of the
salt via brackish into fresh the system would be well flushed?

Or are you lifting (trailering) the boat directly out of salt water
with the engine off and putting it into "dry" store on your drive or
WHY?

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Stuart Noble]

On 27/05/2014 23:02, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 27/05/2014 20:30, Graham. wrote:

Trisodium Phosphate.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm

click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.



66% water ... £74 for 4L ... and more than half of it is water.

So you can see keen to find a home brew version.


the TSP quantity in mix is unknown, and the other key item 'corrosion
inhibitor' (Tall Oil, Sodium Salt) again don't know quantity of it.


OK ... the file gives
3% TSP (cheap and easy to buy)
12% Tall Oil, Sodium Salt (seems it's a by-product from wood pulp
cellulose extraction)
10% coupling agent.

So again maybe there is a Chemist lurking who could advise how I could
make up my home brew and what the 'coupling agent' would be to create
the mix.

I could make myself up 25Litre .. last me my lifetime.


TSP is highly alkaline (PH12), whereas the product itself is slightly
acidic (PH6).
I imagine the sodium salt *of* tall oil (if that's what they mean) would
be a thick, soapy sludge.
I'm lurking but sadly I'm not a chemist

[Rick Hughes[_5_]]

On 28/05/2014 09:08, Dave Liquorice wrote:


Both interpetations of "get much of a malt" in Lidl I would of
thought. Both quantity and quality ... B-)

TBH what is suposed to happen if you don't flush the engine after
running in salt water? Surely by the time you've pottled out of the
salt via brackish into fresh the system would be well flushed?

Or are you lifting (trailering) the boat directly out of salt water
with the engine off and putting it into "dry" store on your drive or
WHY?


There is no pootling to brackish water ...


Boat is towed to Bay.. launched,used, recovered, towed back home, stoed
under cover in its boat shed.

I do 2 things regarding 'flush' ... the trailer is immersed in salt
water, not very good for brakes ... :-)

However it is fitted with a hub flush system ... immediately after
launch & again on recovery .. I connect up a hose to the trailer, this
is connected to a 30L plastic container in car which has a 12V pump
attached .. I flush though with a mix of water with Salt dissolving
additive (X-Salt, SaltAway etc)

Doing this at slipway means hubs are dry by time I get home so not put
away wet.

When I get home I connect engine drive up to a set of 'muffs' this is
fed by a hose and an in-line slat dissolving additive dispenser.
I also spray all metal parts of trailer with this mix.


Been doing this for about 15 years ... but coming to end of current
batch of X-Salt .... that company no longer in business, and alternative
is £74 for under 3.8 Litre.


As salt is NaCl and inherently soluble, thought I could save some
money if I could make up my own 'home brew' mix, of salt dissolver &
anti-corrosion mix.




--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[Rick Hughes[_5_]]

On 28/05/2014 09:48, stuart noble wrote:
On 27/05/2014 23:02, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 27/05/2014 20:30, Graham. wrote:

Trisodium Phosphate.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm

click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.



66% water ... £74 for 4L ... and more than half of it is water.

So you can see keen to find a home brew version.


the TSP quantity in mix is unknown, and the other key item 'corrosion
inhibitor' (Tall Oil, Sodium Salt) again don't know quantity of it.


OK ... the file gives
3% TSP (cheap and easy to buy)
12% Tall Oil, Sodium Salt (seems it's a by-product from wood pulp
cellulose extraction)
10% coupling agent.

So again maybe there is a Chemist lurking who could advise how I could
make up my home brew and what the 'coupling agent' would be to create
the mix.

I could make myself up 25Litre .. last me my lifetime.


TSP is highly alkaline (PH12), whereas the product itself is slightly
acidic (PH6).
I imagine the sodium salt *of* tall oil (if that's what they mean) would
be a thick, soapy sludge.
I'm lurking but sadly I'm not a chemist



I looked up the tall oil ... and from what I found it is a soap sludge
left over wood pulp production.
Description is "Tall oil, sodium salt;BLACK LIQUOR SOAP" or "Sodium
salt of tall-oil"
With a pH of 9 and referred to as 'tall-oil soap'

http://www.epa.gov/hpv/pubs/summaries/tofars/c13056.pdf
seems useful guide





--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Wed, 28 May 2014 12:59:19 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

I flush though with a mix of water with Salt dissolving additive
(X-Salt, SaltAway etc)

I must admit to struggling with the concept of a salt (as in sodium
chloride) dissolving additive. Sodium chloride disolves very well
without any help... Snake oil bell is chiming at least for the
brakes that are washed down whilst still wet and a good hose/pressure
wash of the trailer on return should be good enough for that.

Inside the engine could be a bit different where the salt could get
"baked on", along with silt and algae etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Rick Hughes[_5_]]

On 28/05/2014 15:25, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 28 May 2014 12:59:19 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

I flush though with a mix of water with Salt dissolving additive
(X-Salt, SaltAway etc)

I must admit to struggling with the concept of a salt (as in sodium
chloride) dissolving additive. Sodium chloride disolves very well
without any help... Snake oil bell is chiming at least for the
brakes that are washed down whilst still wet and a good hose/pressure
wash of the trailer on return should be good enough for that.

Inside the engine could be a bit different where the salt could get
"baked on", along with silt and algae etc.



The consensus from most 'trailer boaters' is that as soon as you take
trailer out of salt water ... salt will start corroding the brake mechanism.
Flushing immediately prevents this.
All the parts that get dunked in salt water are galvanized on US
trailers ... not so in UK.
Several of the boat sites rave about Salt dissolving additives ...

I suppose without independent testing difficult to prove.



--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[Stuart Noble]

On 28/05/2014 13:05, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 28/05/2014 09:48, stuart noble wrote:
On 27/05/2014 23:02, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 27/05/2014 20:30, Graham. wrote:

Trisodium Phosphate.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm

click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.



66% water ... £74 for 4L ... and more than half of it is water.

So you can see keen to find a home brew version.


the TSP quantity in mix is unknown, and the other key item 'corrosion
inhibitor' (Tall Oil, Sodium Salt) again don't know quantity of it.


OK ... the file gives
3% TSP (cheap and easy to buy)
12% Tall Oil, Sodium Salt (seems it's a by-product from wood pulp
cellulose extraction)
10% coupling agent.

So again maybe there is a Chemist lurking who could advise how I could
make up my home brew and what the 'coupling agent' would be to create
the mix.

I could make myself up 25Litre .. last me my lifetime.


TSP is highly alkaline (PH12), whereas the product itself is slightly
acidic (PH6).
I imagine the sodium salt *of* tall oil (if that's what they mean) would
be a thick, soapy sludge.
I'm lurking but sadly I'm not a chemist



I looked up the tall oil ... and from what I found it is a soap sludge
left over wood pulp production.
Description is "Tall oil, sodium salt;BLACK LIQUOR SOAP" or "Sodium
salt of tall-oil"
With a pH of 9 and referred to as 'tall-oil soap'

http://www.epa.gov/hpv/pubs/summaries/tofars/c13056.pdf
seems useful guide



I think it was that fat bloke who used to run ICI that said chemical
companies need to sell their waste products, and I think maybe Tall Oil
falls in that category. Soaps have generally been superseded by
surfactants, which can be tailor made for the various applications.
Given that salt is so freely soluble in water, it's difficult to
understand why anything else is required

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:13:09 PM UTC+1, stuart noble wrote:

Given that salt is so freely soluble in water, it's difficult to
understand why anything else is required

Quite. Adding (tall oil) soap will improve dirt & oil removal to a degree. Soaps are pretty cheap, but encourage corrosion.


NT

[Vir Campestris]

On 27/05/2014 23:02, Capitol wrote:
I only pay $30 for a litre of Southern comfort.

UK Taxes. I don't know which dollar you mean, but it isn't over here.

(Taiwan dollars would make that about 75p, or less than 1 US$, IIRC...)

Andy

[Rick Hughes[_5_]]

On 28/05/2014 19:55, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:13:09 PM UTC+1, stuart noble wrote:

Given that salt is so freely soluble in water, it's difficult to
understand why anything else is required

Quite. Adding (tall oil) soap will improve dirt & oil removal to a degree. Soaps are pretty cheap, but encourage corrosion.


NT



The TSP seems to be there as a general purpose cleaner, maybe that is
all I need to add to the water.

I did ask for more details ... all I could get was:

"Salt-Away not only provides an inhibitor against salt adhesion but also
through some very clever chemical engineering encapsulates, isolates the
salt particles, thus suspending them in the acting fluid. The corrosion
ability of the salt is halted immediately."


--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 9:48:31 PM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 28/05/2014 19:55, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:13:09 PM UTC+1, stuart noble wrote:

Given that salt is so freely soluble in water, it's difficult to
understand why anything else is required

Quite. Adding (tall oil) soap will improve dirt & oil removal to a degree. Soaps are pretty cheap, but encourage corrosion.

The TSP seems to be there as a general purpose cleaner, maybe that is
all I need to add to the water.

not sure about the word need there

I did ask for more details ... all I could get was:
"Salt-Away not only provides an inhibitor against salt adhesion but also
through some very clever chemical engineering encapsulates, isolates the
salt particles, thus suspending them in the acting fluid. The corrosion
ability of the salt is halted immediately."

like water does


NT

[Adam Aglionby]

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:04:13 PM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have used a commercial additive via a hose dispenser when flushing my

boat engine after use in slat water .....



That product is no more, and looked at the competition ...

http://www.salt-away.co.uk/



No doubt does a good job but at �74 for less than 4 Litre this is more

expensive than single malt.





Just wondering what would actually be in this, and whether I could make

up my own mix.







--

UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

As well as soap and solvents, other additive possibly silver nitrate

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/117...an-Evaporation

Probably make a few litres from 20g

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SILVER-NIT...item3f36ede212

Decanoic acid looks like might work wrong way round in warm engine

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/ne...h/18031105.asp

[Adam Aglionby]

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:30:28 PM UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 27 May 2014 20:04:13 +0100, Rick Hughes

wrote:



I have used a commercial additive via a hose dispenser when flushing my

boat engine after use in slat water .....



That product is no more, and looked at the competition ...

http://www.salt-away.co.uk/



No doubt does a good job but at �74 for less than 4 Litre this is more

expensive than single malt.





Just wondering what would actually be in this, and whether I could make

up my own mix.





Trisodium Phosphate.



http://www.saltawayproducts.com/MSDSPage.htm



click on "PDF FILE" and look at page 5.



--



Graham.



%Profound_observation%

MSDS has changed , used to show sulfamic acid apparently

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=16634

[Rick Hughes[_5_]]

On 29/05/2014 03:10, Adam Aglionby wrote:


MSDS has changed , used to show sulfamic acid apparently

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=16634


Followed some threads from that link .... lots of people raving about
using vinegar (20% strength) in a 10% mix with flush water.

Maybe they previously used sulfamic acid as a way to get it acidic.

Now PH is only mildly acidic from the TSP



--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
Rick Hughes writes:
The consensus from most 'trailer boaters' is that as soon as you take
trailer out of salt water ... salt will start corroding the brake mechanism.
Flushing immediately prevents this.
All the parts that get dunked in salt water are galvanized on US
trailers ... not so in UK.
Several of the boat sites rave about Salt dissolving additives ...

I suppose without independent testing difficult to prove.

Only thing I can think of better than water for dissolving salt
is hot water...

Some additives might bond to the steel and prevent corrosion (like
central heating inhibitors do). Would need to be something which
doesn't 'lubricate' braking surfaces, and doesn't count as a
polutant when washed into the waterway.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Stephen[_6_]]

On Wed, 28 May 2014 18:29:56 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

Several of the boat sites rave about Salt dissolving additives ...

What are these boats sites? It sounds like an interesting hobby, I'd
like to find out more.

Thanks,
Stephen.