Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

michael adams

....

On 03/05/2014 08:49, michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

michael adams

...



As far as I know - the process is
- cut to size
- toughen

as the toughening process induces deliberate stress in the glass (by
heating / cooling), and, once toughened, you can't work the glass...

Adrian

On 03 May 2014, Adrian Brentnall grunted:

On 03/05/2014 08:49, michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

As far as I know - the process is
- cut to size
- toughen

as the toughening process induces deliberate stress in the glass (by
heating / cooling), and, once toughened, you can't work the glass...

+1

But I don't see anything on the original link which suggests the process is
anything other than that. Is it just that they price up toughened glass
per square metre?

--
David

On 03/05/2014 08:49, michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

No. It just means you need to tell them the size you want, they will
supply it to that size and that the price will be based upon that
pricing structure.

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/2014 08:49, michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

No. It just means you need to tell them the size you want, they will supply it to that
size and that the price will be based upon that pricing structure.

Colin Bignell



Indeed. Presumably with toughened glass then, they need to order it
from the manufacturer who would then cut it to size and treat it.

Given the price differential of £10 per sq. mtr and with a minimum
charge of £12.15 per pane I'm just surprised it would be worth
anyone's while given the costs of extra treatment and transport
from the manufacturer.

http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm


michael adams

....

On 03/05/2014 12:33, michael adams wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/2014 08:49, michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

No. It just means you need to tell them the size you want, they will supply it to that
size and that the price will be based upon that pricing structure.

Colin Bignell



Indeed. Presumably with toughened glass then, they need to order it
from the manufacturer who would then cut it to size and treat it.

Given the price differential of £10 per sq. mtr and with a minimum
charge of £12.15 per pane I'm just surprised it would be worth
anyone's while given the costs of extra treatment and transport
from the manufacturer.

Some of the larger firms have the heat treatment plant on site, so they
buy in normal float glass, cut it to size, grind the edges smooth and
feed it into the oven.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

michael adams

You can get any glass toughened, 4mm, 6mm etc.
The price is based on the cost of the original (untoughened) glass, the
firing of the glass and an added premium based on the fact that occasionally
the firing process destroys the glass and someone has to pay for it, IE,
you.

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/2014 08:49, michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

No. It just means you need to tell them the size you want, they will
supply it to that size and that the price will be based upon that pricing
structure.

Colin Bignell



Indeed. Presumably with toughened glass then, they need to order it
from the manufacturer who would then cut it to size and treat it.

Given the price differential of £10 per sq. mtr and with a minimum
charge of £12.15 per pane I'm just surprised it would be worth
anyone's while given the costs of extra treatment and transport
from the manufacturer.

http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm



You have to have toughened glass by law if it's below a certain level.
Eg, lower panels in doors.

Toughened glass is marked as such if you look.
A safety thing for if it breaks, there are no big shards to cut youself on.

On 03 May 2014, "Phil L" grunted:

michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

You can get any glass toughened, 4mm, 6mm etc.
The price is based on the cost of the original (untoughened) glass,
the firing of the glass and an added premium based on the fact that
occasionally the firing process destroys the glass and someone has to
pay for it, IE, you.

Heh. I once bought a sheet of toughened about 48" tall by 18" wide, for
a door panel. I got it home no problem, prepared the frame, then picked
up the pane and was holding it at its top corners between my thumbs and
forefingers, lining it up with the frame. Suddenly the bloody thing
just spontaneously exploded. I hadn't knocked it or even touched it
against anything whatsoever, but ended up with a pile of tiny fragments
of glass at my feet and a surprised expression on my face.

To the supplier's credit, he did replace it FOC, despite claiming that
he'd never heard of that happening in his life!


--
David

In article , Lobster
writes

Heh. I once bought a sheet of toughened about 48" tall by 18" wide, for
a door panel. I got it home no problem, prepared the frame, then picked
up the pane and was holding it at its top corners between my thumbs and
forefingers, lining it up with the frame. Suddenly the bloody thing
just spontaneously exploded. I hadn't knocked it or even touched it
against anything whatsoever, but ended up with a pile of tiny fragments
of glass at my feet and a surprised expression on my face.

Was this before or after the start of the touch-turns-to-skittles
adverts :-)
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 03/05/2014 19:12, harryagain wrote:
....
You have to have toughened glass by law if it's below a certain level....

Wrong again Harry. You have to have safety glazing or fit adequate
safety guards. Safety glazing can be toughened glass, laminated glass,
various plastics or even ordinary annealed glass, provided it is thick
enough not to be at risk of breaking. That varies from 6mm glass, which
must be no more than 250mm wide and no more than 0.5 sq m in area to
15mm or thicker, which can be used for any size of glazing in critical
locations.

Colin Bignell

On 03 May 2014, fred grunted:

In article , Lobster
writes

Heh. I once bought a sheet of toughened about 48" tall by 18" wide, for
a door panel. I got it home no problem, prepared the frame, then picked
up the pane and was holding it at its top corners between my thumbs and
forefingers, lining it up with the frame. Suddenly the bloody thing
just spontaneously exploded. I hadn't knocked it or even touched it
against anything whatsoever, but ended up with a pile of tiny fragments
of glass at my feet and a surprised expression on my face.

Was this before or after the start of the touch-turns-to-skittles
adverts :-)

Before! But I can tell you - that's exactly what it was like!!

--
David

Nightjar wrote:

On 03/05/2014 19:12, harryagain wrote:
...
You have to have toughened glass by law if it's below a certain level....

Wrong again Harry. You have to have safety glazing or fit adequate
safety guards. Safety glazing can be toughened glass, laminated glass,
various plastics or even ordinary annealed glass, provided it is thick
enough not to be at risk of breaking. That varies from 6mm glass, which
must be no more than 250mm wide and no more than 0.5 sq m in area to
15mm or thicker, which can be used for any size of glazing in critical
locations.

That would make for an interesting looking door to be Part L compliant,
I'd have thought ...

On 03/05/2014 12:33, michael adams wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/2014 08:49, michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

No. It just means you need to tell them the size you want, they will supply it to that
size and that the price will be based upon that pricing structure.

Colin Bignell



Indeed. Presumably with toughened glass then, they need to order it
from the manufacturer who would then cut it to size and treat it.

Given the price differential of £10 per sq. mtr and with a minimum
charge of £12.15 per pane I'm just surprised it would be worth
anyone's while given the costs of extra treatment and transport
from the manufacturer.

http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm


michael adams

...



Where I go (local glas merchant), they cut it, then take it somewhere to
have it toughened, so it takes a day or 2 from ordering.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/2014 08:49, michael adams wrote:
Looking to replace a broken pane of glass
and checking prices on Google I noticed plenty
of suppliers quoting for 4mm clear float and 4mm
clear toughened. And giving instructions on how to
price a particular cut size.
http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm

However when checking out toughened glass on Google
there it's claimed (as I'd always thought to be the case)
that " Any cutting or grinding must be done prior to tempering.
Cutting, grinding, sharp impacts and sometimes even scratches
after tempering will cause the glass to fracture."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

So are there various kinds of "toughened" (as opposed to
laminated which is thicker) 4mm glass ?

No. It just means you need to tell them the size you want, they will supply it to
that size and that the price will be based upon that pricing structure.

Colin Bignell



Indeed. Presumably with toughened glass then, they need to order it
from the manufacturer who would then cut it to size and treat it.

Given the price differential of £10 per sq. mtr and with a minimum
charge of £12.15 per pane I'm just surprised it would be worth
anyone's while given the costs of extra treatment and transport
from the manufacturer.

http://www.roncurrie.co.uk/Sundries2/glass.htm



You have to have toughened glass by law if it's below a certain level.
Eg, lower panels in doors.

What I meant was why it would be worth anyone's while offering
it at that price. i.e a piece of glass cut in the factory
and marked with the customer number, dunked in this chenmical
bath and or furnace and then delivered to a glass shop maybe
miles way and all for £12.50 retail.

michael adams

....






Toughened glass is marked as such if you look.
A safety thing for if it breaks, there are no big shards to cut youself on.

In article , michael adams
writes

What I meant was why it would be worth anyone's while offering
it at that price. i.e a piece of glass cut in the factory
and marked with the customer number, dunked in this chenmical
bath and or furnace and then delivered to a glass shop maybe
miles way and all for £12.50 retail.

Probably better to think of it on trade quantities and margins.

Say supplier works on 100% margin so he buys at 6.75 and sells at
12.50. He quotes a 5 day turn on toughened but part of that is actually
to get a decent batch job to the factory, say 100pcs. So, in a week, he
takes orders, emails to the supplier at the end of the week and takes
675.00 in margin for next to zero work with delivery on Monday. Note
that most glaziers or even moderate sized glass handlers do not make DG
units themselves, it's more cost effective to have a factory that has a
line running flat out producing them that it is to set up a small run in
the workshop.

Note that this is not intended to imply sharp practice in any way, it is
a normal retail vs wholesaler price relationship.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 03/05/2014 19:38, Andy Burns wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

On 03/05/2014 19:12, harryagain wrote:
...
You have to have toughened glass by law if it's below a certain
level....

Wrong again Harry. You have to have safety glazing or fit adequate
safety guards. Safety glazing can be toughened glass, laminated glass,
various plastics or even ordinary annealed glass, provided it is thick
enough not to be at risk of breaking. That varies from 6mm glass, which
must be no more than 250mm wide and no more than 0.5 sq m in area to
15mm or thicker, which can be used for any size of glazing in critical
locations.

That would make for an interesting looking door to be Part L compliant,
I'd have thought ...

I like that thought. Two x 15mm sheets of glass with a 14mm gap and you
have a double glazed 44mm thick external door.

Colin Bignell