Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

If you are going to measure live mains with it, I would strongly suggest
making sure it is genuinely CAT rated with decent quality shrouded leads.

Though, saying that I guess that they all must be now?

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:04:54 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:

Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

If you are going to measure live mains with it, I would strongly suggest
making sure it is genuinely CAT rated with decent quality shrouded leads.
Though, saying that I guess that they all must be now?

Personally I think the risk from shrouded leads outweighs the risk reduction.

Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

How many amps? For automotive use the more the better.

Bill

On 16/04/2014 16:34, Bill Wright wrote:
Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

How many amps? For automotive use the more the better.

Bill

Indeed. If measuring lots of amps, it either needs to incorporate a
pretty hefty shunt or to be a clamp meter. The latter is probably is a
better bet - something like
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/uni-trend-...ltimeter-n41nc
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 16/04/2014 15:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:04:54 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:

Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

If you are going to measure live mains with it, I would strongly suggest
making sure it is genuinely CAT rated with decent quality shrouded leads.
Though, saying that I guess that they all must be now?

Personally I think the risk from shrouded leads outweighs the risk reduction.

Risk from uncertified meters does exist, but you take 1000s times the risk just walking to work, so I dont think its something to get excited over.

'Decent' is undefined; the OP's requirements suggest that even a £2 Rapid job would be upto that. Rapidonline is a good place to get good cheap meters.


NT


Ok, I'm genuinely interested in why you think shrouded meter leads are
dangerous. I can't even see how they would be, but if I'm missing
something it would be nice to know

The £2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

On 16/04/2014 17:57, Lee wrote:

The £2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

Oh, better just add this quick, I'm not suggesting Rapid would sell
anything like that.

Their £10 or thereabouts meter looks like it would do the job though.

On 16/04/2014 15:04, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

If you are going to measure live mains with it, I would strongly suggest
making sure it is genuinely CAT rated with decent quality shrouded leads.

Though, saying that I guess that they all must be now?

Most of them are marked with a CAT rating - many of them clearly do not
deserve the rating when you look inside!

As you say it depends on if you are going to routinely use it for mains
work, and also where... in high energy locations (close to, or in a
Consumer Unit) then I would only use one that is properly CAT III or
better. Inside an appliance however the risk of using something less
capable would be negligible.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.


I have a 'pen' type multi meter like this;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Mult...tal+multimeter

Much easier to use, especially on light fittings. You don't need three
hands :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

I can remember the old Avo 8 leads getting a nick in the rubber and nearly
making me slightly dead. I was perhaps not using the thing that carefully,
and another thing I used to notice was the tendency for the leads to fall
out exposing the live pin inside.
He did not say if he is after digital or analogue. When I could see i found
analogue good for most things, but of course digital gave very accurate
results and many of them could measure capacity and all sorts of other
clever stuff.


Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Lee" wrote in message
...
On 16/04/2014 15:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:04:54 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:

Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

If you are going to measure live mains with it, I would strongly suggest
making sure it is genuinely CAT rated with decent quality shrouded
leads.
Though, saying that I guess that they all must be now?

Personally I think the risk from shrouded leads outweighs the risk
reduction.

Risk from uncertified meters does exist, but you take 1000s times the
risk just walking to work, so I dont think its something to get excited
over.

'Decent' is undefined; the OP's requirements suggest that even a £2 Rapid
job would be upto that. Rapidonline is a good place to get good cheap
meters.


NT


Ok, I'm genuinely interested in why you think shrouded meter leads are
dangerous. I can't even see how they would be, but if I'm missing
something it would be nice to know

The £2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

Yes Shunts can be used though.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

How many amps? For automotive use the more the better.

Bill

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:10 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 17:57, Lee wrote:

The �2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

The single insulation on them is more than capable. I have no trouble trusting them to mains.

I grew up in a world where what's now known as speaker wire & bell wire were often used on mains. The insulation on such is electrically adequate, just not as abuse proof as modern double insulated leads. If youre using a multimeter on mains you really should be quite capable of detecting a lead cut half through.

Did you find them on Rapex? I dont see why theyd be there.

I bought a bundle or so of the things, and leave them wherever I might want one on occasion. The tiny investment has paid off many times over. The only downside I've found with them so far has been accuracy, they're not always within 1 or 2% as they claimed. I've got better meters as well, but tbh from my experience with the rock bottom ones I wouldnt have a problem recommending them, they're perfectly able.

Its just like Tesco value, Sainsbury basics etc. Some of that stuff I wouldnt touch, but some is just as good. The brandnames are more about image than anything more concrete.


NT

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:57:46 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 15:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:04:54 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:

Personally I think the risk from shrouded leads outweighs the risk reduction.

Risk from uncertified meters does exist, but you take 1000s times the risk just walking to work, so I dont think its something to get excited over..

'Decent' is undefined; the OP's requirements suggest that even a �2 Rapid job would be upto that. Rapidonline is a good place to get good cheap meters.

Ok, I'm genuinely interested in why you think shrouded meter leads are
dangerous. I can't even see how they would be, but if I'm missing
something it would be nice to know

When the shrouds are sprung, the plug sometimes gets pushed partway out by the spring over time. The result is you test something live, the meter reads no volts, and the user who doesnt stop to be a bit suspicious then gets a shock. Imho its a bigger problem than the risk of the bare pins that shrouds were intended to prevent.


The �2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

Sure - I just replied on that one. FWIW I've used thinner insulation than that at 1kV on temporary lashups, pvc is quite capable stuff.


NT

On 16/04/2014 19:20, wrote:

When the shrouds are sprung, the plug sometimes gets pushed partway out by the spring over time. The result is you test something live, the meter reads no volts, and the user who doesnt stop to be a bit suspicious then gets a shock. Imho its a bigger problem than the risk of the bare pins that shrouds were intended to prevent.



Fairy snuff. I'm not keen on the spring loaded ones either, all mine are
just sleeved.

Lee

On 16/04/2014 19:15, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:10 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 17:57, Lee wrote:

The �2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

The single insulation on them is more than capable. I have no trouble trusting them to mains.

I grew up in a world where what's now known as speaker wire & bell wire were often used on mains. The insulation on such is electrically adequate, just not as abuse proof as modern double insulated leads. If youre using a multimeter on mains you really should be quite capable of detecting a lead cut half through.

Did you find them on Rapex? I dont see why theyd be there.

I bought a bundle or so of the things, and leave them wherever I might want one on occasion. The tiny investment has paid off many times over. The only downside I've found with them so far has been accuracy, they're not always within 1 or 2% as they claimed. I've got better meters as well, but tbh from my experience with the rock bottom ones I wouldnt have a problem recommending them, they're perfectly able.

Its just like Tesco value, Sainsbury basics etc. Some of that stuff I wouldnt touch, but some is just as good. The brandnames are more about image than anything more concrete.


NT


I take your point, although personally I'm happier with the double
insulated leads. Each to their own I guess.

The yellow £2 special that used to be on sale everywhere at one point
was listed on there simply as "risk of injury" I can't remember if the
explanation went any further than that.

Lee

On 16/04/2014 19:54, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 19:15, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:10 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 17:57, Lee wrote:

The �2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the
EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

The single insulation on them is more than capable. I have no trouble
trusting them to mains.

I grew up in a world where what's now known as speaker wire & bell
wire were often used on mains. The insulation on such is electrically
adequate, just not as abuse proof as modern double insulated leads. If
youre using a multimeter on mains you really should be quite capable
of detecting a lead cut half through.

Did you find them on Rapex? I dont see why theyd be there.

I bought a bundle or so of the things, and leave them wherever I might
want one on occasion. The tiny investment has paid off many times
over. The only downside I've found with them so far has been accuracy,
they're not always within 1 or 2% as they claimed. I've got better
meters as well, but tbh from my experience with the rock bottom ones I
wouldnt have a problem recommending them, they're perfectly able.

Its just like Tesco value, Sainsbury basics etc. Some of that stuff I
wouldnt touch, but some is just as good. The brandnames are more about
image than anything more concrete.


NT


I take your point, although personally I'm happier with the double
insulated leads. Each to their own I guess.

Normally when people get killed by meters, it a result of the meter
flashing over internally rather than the leads failing directly.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , John
Rumm scribeth thus
On 16/04/2014 19:54, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 19:15, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:10 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 17:57, Lee wrote:

The �2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the
EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

The single insulation on them is more than capable. I have no trouble
trusting them to mains.

I grew up in a world where what's now known as speaker wire & bell
wire were often used on mains. The insulation on such is electrically
adequate, just not as abuse proof as modern double insulated leads. If
youre using a multimeter on mains you really should be quite capable
of detecting a lead cut half through.

Did you find them on Rapex? I dont see why theyd be there.

I bought a bundle or so of the things, and leave them wherever I might
want one on occasion. The tiny investment has paid off many times
over. The only downside I've found with them so far has been accuracy,
they're not always within 1 or 2% as they claimed. I've got better
meters as well, but tbh from my experience with the rock bottom ones I
wouldnt have a problem recommending them, they're perfectly able.

Its just like Tesco value, Sainsbury basics etc. Some of that stuff I
wouldnt touch, but some is just as good. The brandnames are more about
image than anything more concrete.


NT


I take your point, although personally I'm happier with the double
insulated leads. Each to their own I guess.

Normally when people get killed by meters, it a result of the meter
flashing over internally rather than the leads failing directly.


Why not have a look on Fleabay for a second hand Fluke meter? I managed
to get one for 40 quid and IMHO money well spent...

--
Tony Sayer

On 16/04/2014 21:24, John Rumm wrote:

Normally when people get killed by meters, it a result of the meter
flashing over internally rather than the leads failing directly.


Maybe TPTB thought that one had the potential to, which was why it was
on the list?

On 16/04/2014 22:55, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 21:24, John Rumm wrote:

Normally when people get killed by meters, it a result of the meter
flashing over internally rather than the leads failing directly.


Maybe TPTB thought that one had the potential to, which was why it was
on the list?

The double insulated leads probably go along way to reducing shocks
though...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, April 17, 2014 1:39:46 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/04/2014 22:55, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 21:24, John Rumm wrote:

Normally when people get killed by meters, it a result of the meter
flashing over internally rather than the leads failing directly.

Maybe TPTB thought that one had the potential to, which was why it was
on the list?

The double insulated leads probably go along way to reducing shocks
though...

I dont see how, as they're not part of the main shock risks with meters. Single insulated leads are still very common on multimeters.


NT

On 17/04/2014 10:01, wrote:
On Thursday, April 17, 2014 1:39:46 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/04/2014 22:55, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 21:24, John Rumm wrote:

Normally when people get killed by meters, it a result of the meter
flashing over internally rather than the leads failing directly.

Maybe TPTB thought that one had the potential to, which was why it was
on the list?

The double insulated leads probably go along way to reducing shocks
though...

I dont see how,

due to being harder to compromise with general wear and light damage /
abuse.

as they're not part of the main shock risks with meters. Single insulated leads are still very common on multimeters.

Common on cheap ones, less so on the Flukes etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

One thing I find essential on a DVM is decent flexible leads which means
silicone insulation. Something you don't get with a cheap one.

I'm cautious about using a general purpose DVM on mains after my Maplin
Gold - quite a good meter in its day - blew up. It appeared to be dirt on
the tracks of the rotary switch that caused a bridge of some sort on high
voltage - it had been fine on low voltage stuff.

So I have one designed specifically for mains too - this sort of thing:-

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...741/index.html

Which is also more convenient for probing mains than a normal DVM.

I can't really recommend a low price unit as they change so often, and I
lashed out on a Fluke, but I'd go for a decent spec one off Ebay at about
£30 direct from the Chinese maker.

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.


I have a 'pen' type multi meter like this;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Mult...tal+multimeter


Much easier to use, especially on light fittings. You don't need three
hands :-)


So how does that meet the requirements of the OP then?

Bob Minchin wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.


I have a 'pen' type multi meter like this;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Mult.../ref=sr_1_18?s

=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1397669933&sr=1-18&keywords=digital+multimeter



Much easier to use, especially on light fittings. You don't need three
hands :-)


So how does that meet the requirements of the OP then?

He's just saying. It's an aside.

Bill

On 17/04/2014 11:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
One thing I find essential on a DVM is decent flexible leads which means
silicone insulation. Something you don't get with a cheap one.

I'm cautious about using a general purpose DVM on mains after my Maplin
Gold - quite a good meter in its day - blew up. It appeared to be dirt on
the tracks of the rotary switch that caused a bridge of some sort on high
voltage - it had been fine on low voltage stuff.

So I have one designed specifically for mains too - this sort of thing:-

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...741/index.html

Which is also more convenient for probing mains than a normal DVM.

I can't really recommend a low price unit as they change so often, and I
lashed out on a Fluke, but I'd go for a decent spec one off Ebay at about
£30 direct from the Chinese maker.


It very much depends on what you want to do, doesn't it. My various
meters are normally only used on cars or electronics. There are not many
occasions when I actually want to *measure* mains volts or amps, a volt
stick to show which wire is "live" is usually all I need.

I can see that if I were often working on (say) washing machines or
dishwashers with heaters and motor control gear at "mains" then I would
be better off and safer with a proper Fluke.

+ 1 for ebay for that sort of thing, I have a Robin "earth tester".

In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 17/04/2014 11:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
One thing I find essential on a DVM is decent flexible leads which means
silicone insulation. Something you don't get with a cheap one.

I'm cautious about using a general purpose DVM on mains after my Maplin
Gold - quite a good meter in its day - blew up. It appeared to be dirt on
the tracks of the rotary switch that caused a bridge of some sort on high
voltage - it had been fine on low voltage stuff.

So I have one designed specifically for mains too - this sort of
thing:-

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...741/index.html

Which is also more convenient for probing mains than a normal DVM.

I can't really recommend a low price unit as they change so often, and
I lashed out on a Fluke, but I'd go for a decent spec one off Ebay at
about £30 direct from the Chinese maker.


It very much depends on what you want to do, doesn't it. My various
meters are normally only used on cars or electronics. There are not many
occasions when I actually want to *measure* mains volts or amps, a volt
stick to show which wire is "live" is usually all I need.

Could be. As I said I'm wary about using a multimeter on mains now. They
all tend to use a similar rotary switch which might get dirty with age as
my Maplin one did and flash over. The 'stick' type don't have that sort of
switch.

I can see that if I were often working on (say) washing machines or
dishwashers with heaters and motor control gear at "mains" then I would
be better off and safer with a proper Fluke.

+ 1 for ebay for that sort of thing, I have a Robin "earth tester".

I had a quick glance on Ebay and saw a Fluke 17* which was at 20 quid.
Nice no frills older Fluke.

As regards car use, I find one with a dwell function useful. Although
originally for points setting it is useful to check injector cycles, etc.
And RPM can be handy. So really a specialist type - although it will do
basic functions too. Depends what you want.

--
*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 16 April 2014 22:30:31 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article , John

Rumm scribeth thus

On 16/04/2014 19:54, Lee wrote:

On 16/04/2014 19:15, wrote:

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:10 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:

On 16/04/2014 17:57, Lee wrote:



The �2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the

EU/RAPEX

list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust

the insulation on those at mains voltages?



The single insulation on them is more than capable. I have no trouble

trusting them to mains.



I grew up in a world where what's now known as speaker wire & bell

wire were often used on mains. The insulation on such is electrically

adequate, just not as abuse proof as modern double insulated leads. If

youre using a multimeter on mains you really should be quite capable

of detecting a lead cut half through.



Did you find them on Rapex? I dont see why theyd be there.



I bought a bundle or so of the things, and leave them wherever I might

want one on occasion. The tiny investment has paid off many times

over. The only downside I've found with them so far has been accuracy,

they're not always within 1 or 2% as they claimed. I've got better

meters as well, but tbh from my experience with the rock bottom ones I

wouldnt have a problem recommending them, they're perfectly able.



Its just like Tesco value, Sainsbury basics etc. Some of that stuff I

wouldnt touch, but some is just as good. The brandnames are more about

image than anything more concrete.





NT





I take your point, although personally I'm happier with the double

insulated leads. Each to their own I guess.



Normally when people get killed by meters, it a result of the meter

flashing over internally rather than the leads failing directly.





Why not have a look on Fleabay for a second hand Fluke meter? I managed

to get one for 40 quid and IMHO money well spent...

Personally I'd avoid ebay for such things unless you can be really sure you're not buying a fake fluke. The same goes for amazon supplies that ship from china.

In article , Roger Mills
writes
On 16/04/2014 16:34, Bill Wright wrote:
Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.

How many amps? For automotive use the more the better.

Bill

Indeed. If measuring lots of amps, it either needs to incorporate a
pretty hefty shunt or to be a clamp meter. The latter is probably is a
better bet - something like
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/uni-trend-...ltimeter-n41nc

Quite a nice little meter that, thanks for the tip.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:54:52 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 19:15, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:10 PM UTC+1, Lee wrote:
On 16/04/2014 17:57, Lee wrote:

The �2 meter, assuming it's not one of the 'banned' ones on the EU/RAPEX
list, is likely going to suffer from really poor leads. Would you trust
the insulation on those at mains voltages?

The single insulation on them is more than capable. I have no trouble trusting them to mains.

I grew up in a world where what's now known as speaker wire & bell wire were often used on mains. The insulation on such is electrically adequate, just not as abuse proof as modern double insulated leads. If youre using a multimeter on mains you really should be quite capable of detecting a lead cut half through.

Did you find them on Rapex? I dont see why theyd be there.

I bought a bundle or so of the things, and leave them wherever I might want one on occasion. The tiny investment has paid off many times over. The only downside I've found with them so far has been accuracy, they're not always within 1 or 2% as they claimed. I've got better meters as well, but tbh from my experience with the rock bottom ones I wouldnt have a problem recommending them, they're perfectly able.

Its just like Tesco value, Sainsbury basics etc. Some of that stuff I wouldnt touch, but some is just as good. The brandnames are more about image than anything more concrete.

I take your point, although personally I'm happier with the double
insulated leads. Each to their own I guess.

The yellow £2 special that used to be on sale everywhere at one point
was listed on there simply as "risk of injury" I can't remember if the
explanation went any further than that.
Lee

Rapid 85-0701 is what I got. I remember the yellow ones that were common, and lacking even the usual basic scales, couldnt see the point of them.

Re single insulated leads many meters use, its sensible to put a real world number on the risks. In terms of added risk to the user, its simply off the chart. Deaths per year zero. I've no worry using such things at 1kV. I try to take more care with the real risks in life, like travelling from A to B and buying food. Those are what kill people en masse.


NT

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:03:26 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

One thing I find essential on a DVM is decent flexible leads which means
silicone insulation. Something you don't get with a cheap one.

I'm cautious about using a general purpose DVM on mains after my Maplin
Gold - quite a good meter in its day - blew up. It appeared to be dirt
on the tracks of the rotary switch that caused a bridge of some sort on
high voltage - it had been fine on low voltage stuff.

I've had that. Not so much dirt as microscopic particles of metal worn
off the switch - you could see them sparkling on the switch wafers.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 17/04/2014 11:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
One thing I find essential on a DVM is decent flexible leads which means
silicone insulation. Something you don't get with a cheap one.

I'm cautious about using a general purpose DVM on mains after my Maplin
Gold - quite a good meter in its day - blew up. It appeared to be dirt on
the tracks of the rotary switch that caused a bridge of some sort on high
voltage - it had been fine on low voltage stuff.


If you are paranoid you need something like

http://www.test-meter.co.uk/handyman...i-clamp-meter/

but it won't give accurate voltage measurements.

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:03:26 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

One thing I find essential on a DVM is decent flexible leads which means
silicone insulation. Something you don't get with a cheap one.

I'm cautious about using a general purpose DVM on mains after my Maplin
Gold - quite a good meter in its day - blew up. It appeared to be dirt
on the tracks of the rotary switch that caused a bridge of some sort on
high voltage - it had been fine on low voltage stuff.

I've had that. Not so much dirt as microscopic particles of metal worn
off the switch - you could see them sparkling on the switch wafers.

All my more recent meters (I do actually have a Maplin Gold still) are
autoranging so rotary switches aren't really involved any more.

Switch to volts and that's it.

--
Chris Green
·

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 05:36:49 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 April 2014 22:30:31 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:

Why not have a look on Fleabay for a second hand Fluke meter? I managed

to get one for 40 quid and IMHO money well spent...

Personally I'd avoid ebay for such things unless you can be really sure you're not buying a fake fluke. The same goes for amazon supplies that ship from china.

It's just 40 quid for a brand new bottom of the range CAT III rated Fluke on
Ebay and they are genuine but are intended for sale in emerging markets only.

FLUKE 101

Ebay 321355688632


--

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 20:07:44 +0100, cl wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:03:26 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

One thing I find essential on a DVM is decent flexible leads which
means silicone insulation. Something you don't get with a cheap one.

I'm cautious about using a general purpose DVM on mains after my
Maplin Gold - quite a good meter in its day - blew up. It appeared to
be dirt on the tracks of the rotary switch that caused a bridge of
some sort on high voltage - it had been fine on low voltage stuff.

I've had that. Not so much dirt as microscopic particles of metal worn
off the switch - you could see them sparkling on the switch wafers.

All my more recent meters (I do actually have a Maplin Gold still) are
autoranging so rotary switches aren't really involved any more.

Switch to volts and that's it.

Not had any trouble with the rotary switches on the Avo 8, however...!



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

I take your point, although personally I'm happier with the double

insulated leads. Each to their own I guess.



Normally when people get killed by meters, it a result of the meter

flashing over internally rather than the leads failing directly.





Why not have a look on Fleabay for a second hand Fluke meter? I managed

to get one for 40 quid and IMHO money well spent...

Personally I'd avoid ebay for such things unless you can be really sure you're
not buying a fake fluke. The same goes for amazon supplies that ship from china.


Well all I've had from ebay thus far has been fine. But a Fluke is well
a fluke if the Chinese are building them as well as Fluke make 'em then
they'll be fine

Mind you how to they get them looking "aged" a bit for a few tens of
quid's you won't get a new one...
--
Tony Sayer

On 17/04/2014 18:01, wrote:

Re single insulated leads many meters use, its sensible to put a real
world number on the risks. In terms of added risk to the user, its
simply off the chart. Deaths per year zero. I've no worry using such

As has been pointed out many times, death is not the only undesirable
outcome. Far more people are blinded or burnt by arc flash injury than
killed. Many more will have injuries severe enough to require hospital
treatment.

things at 1kV. I try to take more care with the real risks in life,

Its not the voltage that matters particularly (within reason) by the
level of transients that may be present, and the "energy" level of the
mains connection.

Poking about on mains wiring anywhere there is a PSC north of a few
hundred amps is a foolish thing to do with a meter with no input
protection.

like travelling from A to B and buying food. Those are what kill
people en masse.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
wrote:
I've had that. Not so much dirt as microscopic particles of metal worn
off the switch - you could see them sparkling on the switch wafers.

All my more recent meters (I do actually have a Maplin Gold still) are
autoranging so rotary switches aren't really involved any more.

My Fluke autoranges - but still has a rotary switch. You still have to
select AC, DC, etc it's going to autorange on.

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/04/14 03:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/04/2014 18:01, wrote:

Re single insulated leads many meters use, its sensible to put a real
world number on the risks. In terms of added risk to the user, its
simply off the chart. Deaths per year zero. I've no worry using such

As has been pointed out many times, death is not the only undesirable
outcome. Far more people are blinded or burnt by arc flash injury than
killed. Many more will have injuries severe enough to require hospital
treatment.

things at 1kV. I try to take more care with the real risks in life,

Its not the voltage that matters particularly (within reason) by the
level of transients that may be present, and the "energy" level of the
mains connection.

Poking about on mains wiring anywhere there is a PSC north of a few
hundred amps is a foolish thing to do with a meter with no input
protection.


I'm sure folks here are aware of the following case, but anyway ...

"The Case of the Deadly Arc Flash"
http://ecmweb.com/arc-flash/case-deadly-arc-flash


--
Adrian C

On Friday, April 18, 2014 3:22:19 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/04/2014 18:01, wrote:

Re single insulated leads many meters use, its sensible to put a real
world number on the risks. In terms of added risk to the user, its
simply off the chart. Deaths per year zero. I've no worry using such

As has been pointed out many times, death is not the only undesirable
outcome. Far more people are blinded or burnt by arc flash injury than
killed. Many more will have injuries severe enough to require hospital
treatment.

Do you have a reference for many people getting injured?

things at 1kV. I try to take more care with the real risks in life,

Its not the voltage that matters particularly (within reason) by the
level of transients that may be present, and the "energy" level of the
mains connection.

yes

Poking about on mains wiring anywhere there is a PSC north of a few
hundred amps is a foolish thing to do with a meter with no input
protection.

like travelling from A to B and buying food. Those are what kill
people en masse.

Isnt it more foolish to fail at addressing the big risks in life?


NT

On 17/04/2014 12:09, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 16/04/2014 13:48, Broadback wrote:
Any recommendations please? Just needs Ac and DC volts (up to mains
level) amps and Ohms. All help appreciated.


I have a 'pen' type multi meter like this;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Mult...tal+multimeter



Much easier to use, especially on light fittings. You don't need three
hands :-)


So how does that meet the requirements of the OP then?


It reads Ac and DC volts (up to mains level) amps and Ohms. Thats what
he wanted?

It has a test lead as well.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk