On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 19:07:11 -0000, John Williamson wrote:

On 09/03/2014 18:14, wrote:
On Friday, March 7, 2014 2:11:31 PM UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
The Aussies are a more logical race and aren't little scaredy-pants like the Brits. IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the bath!

I wouldn't like to try that. An ELCB (RCD) does nothing to reduce the magnitude of the current that flows through your body. It just stops it after a short time which is still long enough for the experience to be very unpleasant and quite possibly dangerous.

Unless you're Uncle Peter, who has repeatedly claimed in here that he is
immune to electric shocks of 240v Volts or so.

Most electricians have had plenty of shocks.

--
Q: Why can't you have a circumcised Morris dancer?
A: Because you have to be a complete prick to be a Morris dancer.

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 8:20:47 PM UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 19:07:11 -0000, John Williamson wrote:
On 09/03/2014 18:14, wrote:
On Friday, March 7, 2014 2:11:31 PM UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
The Aussies are a more logical race and aren't little scaredy-pants like the Brits. IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the bath!
I wouldn't like to try that. An ELCB (RCD) does nothing to reduce the magnitude of the current that flows through your body. It just stops it after a short time which is still long enough for the experience to be very unpleasant and quite possibly dangerous.
Unless you're Uncle Peter, who has repeatedly claimed in here that he is
immune to electric shocks of 240v Volts or so.
Most electricians have had plenty of shocks.

In the bath? Really?

John

On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 22:12:33 -0000, wrote:

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 8:20:47 PM UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 19:07:11 -0000, John Williamson wrote:
On 09/03/2014 18:14, wrote:
On Friday, March 7, 2014 2:11:31 PM UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
The Aussies are a more logical race and aren't little scaredy-pants like the Brits. IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the bath!
I wouldn't like to try that. An ELCB (RCD) does nothing to reduce the magnitude of the current that flows through your body. It just stops it after a short time which is still long enough for the experience to be very unpleasant and quite possibly dangerous.
Unless you're Uncle Peter, who has repeatedly claimed in here that he is
immune to electric shocks of 240v Volts or so.
Most electricians have had plenty of shocks.

In the bath? Really?

In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a ladder. I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a wet and dry hoover in the rain.

--
What is the punishment for bigamy?
Two mother-in-laws.

On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
In the bath? Really?
In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a ladder. I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a wet and dry hoover in the rain.
But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very specific:
"IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the bath!"

John

On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 23:49:03 -0000, wrote:

On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
In the bath? Really?
In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a ladder. I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a wet and dry hoover in the rain.
But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very specific:
"IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the bath!"

What makes you think a bath is any more dangerous? I suppose if it got you on the gentleman's area it could hurt more, but it would be no more likely to kill you.

--
A man came home from work earlier than usual and caught his wife in bed with his best friend.
Enraged, the husband grabbed a gun and shot his friend.
His wife said, "You know, if you go on like this, you're going to lose ALL your friends."

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:52:16 -0000, Jim K wrote:

On Wednesday, 5 March 2014 10:42:46 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 12:04:08 AM UTC, F Murtz wrote:

Blimey you people have got it tough,Almost every modern bathroom in

Australia has a GPO (general purpose outlet)(power point)or two



Is that for plugging in the beer cooler or the little vacuum device
for sucking up spiders?

&/or penis/ego enlargement...

Do Aussies have small cocks?

Only the ones that came from the UK.

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:42:46 -0000, wrote:

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 12:04:08 AM UTC, F Murtz wrote:
Blimey you people have got it tough,Almost every modern bathroom in
Australia has a GPO (general purpose outlet)(power point)or two

Is that for plugging in the beer cooler or the little vacuum device
for sucking up spiders?

I bought a motorised barbecue cleaner from Australia once, it was pathetic.

Must have been designed in the UK

On 09/03/2014 23:49, wrote:
On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
In the bath? Really?
In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a
ladder. I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a
wet and dry hoover in the rain.
But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very
specific: "IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it
was IN the bath!"

John


You need much more than just being in a bath before it makes much
difference shock wise.
Unless there is a return path through the water and through you to earth
or the other pole not much happens.

I have experienced similar first hand when I was about 10yo, having
dropped a mains lighting socket in a fish tank (conductive water) and
tried to retrieve it.
All I got was a tingling that got worse the closer you got to the
socket, it was impossible to actually pick it up.
If I had been holding onto some earthed metal I expect it might have
been a bit more shocking.
I doubt if there is actually any chance of getting a serious shock by
dropping a portable appliance in the bath with you. But you might get
one trying to retrieve it.

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:11:01 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:42:46 -0000, wrote:

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 12:04:08 AM UTC, F Murtz wrote:
Blimey you people have got it tough,Almost every modern bathroom in
Australia has a GPO (general purpose outlet)(power point)or two

Is that for plugging in the beer cooler or the little vacuum device
for sucking up spiders?

I bought a motorised barbecue cleaner from Australia once, it was pathetic.

Must have been designed in the UK

No, it clearly said "Made in Australia".

--
Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US Treasury.

On 10/03/2014 00:06, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 23:49:03 -0000, wrote:

On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
In the bath? Really?
In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a ladder.
I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a wet and
dry hoover in the rain.
But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very
specific:
"IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the
bath!"

What makes you think a bath is any more dangerous? I suppose if it got
you on the gentleman's area it could hurt more, but it would be no more
likely to kill you.

The risk from a shock grows as the shock current rises, or the duration
increases.

The particular risk of baths and showers is that there is a greater
chance your skin will be wet, and this will reduce its electrical
resistance, and that in turn can increase the magnitude of the shock
current.

So while the 40ms response of the RCD is designed to limit the harm
caused, that does not mean it will be pain or damage free.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:49:02 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 10/03/2014 00:06, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 23:49:03 -0000, wrote:

On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
In the bath? Really?
In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a ladder.
I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a wet and
dry hoover in the rain.
But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very
specific:
"IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the
bath!"

What makes you think a bath is any more dangerous? I suppose if it got
you on the gentleman's area it could hurt more, but it would be no more
likely to kill you.

The risk from a shock grows as the shock current rises, or the duration
increases.

The particular risk of baths and showers is that there is a greater
chance your skin will be wet, and this will reduce its electrical
resistance, and that in turn can increase the magnitude of the shock
current.

So while the 40ms response of the RCD is designed to limit the harm
caused, that does not mean it will be pain or damage free.

Well in the kitchen your hands are very often wet, and that's full of sockets.

--
System error 4C: kernel panic

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:11:01 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:42:46 -0000, wrote:

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 12:04:08 AM UTC, F Murtz wrote:
Blimey you people have got it tough,Almost every modern bathroom in
Australia has a GPO (general purpose outlet)(power point)or two

Is that for plugging in the beer cooler or the little vacuum device
for sucking up spiders?

I bought a motorised barbecue cleaner from Australia once, it was
pathetic.

Must have been designed in the UK

No, it clearly said "Made in Australia".

But designed in UK.

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:24:14 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:11:01 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:42:46 -0000, wrote:

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 12:04:08 AM UTC, F Murtz wrote:


Is that for plugging in the beer cooler or the little vacuum device
for sucking up spiders?

I bought a motorised barbecue cleaner from Australia once, it was
pathetic.

Must have been designed in the UK

No, it clearly said "Made in Australia".

But designed in UK.

Then they would have written that, so as not to be associated with it.

--
A friend of mine suffers from verdigris. Goes green when looking down from a height!

In message , F
writes
On 07/03/2014 14:10 Uncle Peter wrote:

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:50:40 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/03/2014 22:21 Roger Mills wrote:

On 04/03/2014 20:30, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Customer asked if I could fit a socket in a bathroom to run a de hum. I
said no.

Is it OK regs wise to install a FCU & wire the de hum into that?


Think so - as long as there's a switch outside the bathroom or a
pull-switch inside - but not one on the FCU itself. It's the way that
electric towel rails seem to be connected in TravelLodges, etc. [1]

[1] Or maybe how they *used* to do it. They don't seem to use electric
towel rails at all now, and the outlets are blanked off. Maybe the regs
have changed - or maybe they just want to save electricity?!

They seem to be stripping out as much as they can. It'll be 'bring your
own bed' next.

It's meant to be somewhere CHEAP to spend a night on a journey, not a
luxury hotel.

And we used them until they stripped them down to the bare bones. We
use Premier Travel Inn now.


Depends on the comparative costs for us - Premier inn are a bit better,
but seems easier to get good prices more often at Travelodge.

Just done some bookings (1 night this friday and a couple of nights in
April Preimer inn was lots (as in at 2-3 times the price at least), and
we need 2 rooms)
--
Chris French

On Monday, March 10, 2014 3:19:53 PM UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:49:02 -0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2014 00:06, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 23:49:03 -0000, wrote:
On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
In the bath? Really?
In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a ladder.
I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a wet and
dry hoover in the rain.
But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very
specific:
"IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the
bath!"
What makes you think a bath is any more dangerous? I suppose if it got
you on the gentleman's area it could hurt more, but it would be no more
likely to kill you.
The risk from a shock grows as the shock current rises, or the duration
increases.
The particular risk of baths and showers is that there is a greater
chance your skin will be wet, and this will reduce its electrical
resistance, and that in turn can increase the magnitude of the shock
current.
So while the 40ms response of the RCD is designed to limit the harm
caused, that does not mean it will be pain or damage free.
Well in the kitchen your hands are very often wet, and that's full of sockets.

You probably don't routinely stand in the kitchen sink with bare feet.

It was you who picked a bath as an extreme example of a place where
one might be protected against electric shock by an RCD.

John

On 10/03/14 16:28, chris French wrote:

Depends on the comparative costs for us - Premier inn are a bit better,
but seems easier to get good prices more often at Travelodge.

Just done some bookings (1 night this friday and a couple of nights in
April Preimer inn was lots (as in at 2-3 times the price at least), and
we need 2 rooms)

Premier Inn tends to jump all over the place - prices seem very dynamic
- presumably dependent on how booked they are - well, what usually
happens is the super saver option disappears and you just get the
regular price.

I always check Tripadvisor before booking anything these days - what
looks shiny can quite often turn out to have a serious problem (thin
walls, noisy, crap food).

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:34:33 -0000, wrote:

On Monday, March 10, 2014 3:19:53 PM UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:49:02 -0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2014 00:06, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 23:49:03 -0000, wrote:
On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
In the bath? Really?
In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a ladder.
I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a wet and
dry hoover in the rain.
But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very
specific:
"IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the
bath!"
What makes you think a bath is any more dangerous? I suppose if it got
you on the gentleman's area it could hurt more, but it would be no more
likely to kill you.
The risk from a shock grows as the shock current rises, or the duration
increases.
The particular risk of baths and showers is that there is a greater
chance your skin will be wet, and this will reduce its electrical
resistance, and that in turn can increase the magnitude of the shock
current.
So while the 40ms response of the RCD is designed to limit the harm
caused, that does not mean it will be pain or damage free.
Well in the kitchen your hands are very often wet, and that's full of sockets.

You probably don't routinely stand in the kitchen sink with bare feet.

It was you who picked a bath as an extreme example of a place where
one might be protected against electric shock by an RCD.

The kitchen is full of earthed large metal appliances you could be leaning touching with your knee. Which kinda defeats the purpose of the earth.

--
I got invited to a Muslim party the other night.
It was the fastest game of pass the parcel I've even seen!

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:28:55 -0000, chris French wrote:

In message , F
writes
On 07/03/2014 14:10 Uncle Peter wrote:

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:50:40 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/03/2014 22:21 Roger Mills wrote:

On 04/03/2014 20:30, The Medway Handyman wrote:


Think so - as long as there's a switch outside the bathroom or a
pull-switch inside - but not one on the FCU itself. It's the way that
electric towel rails seem to be connected in TravelLodges, etc. [1]

[1] Or maybe how they *used* to do it. They don't seem to use electric
towel rails at all now, and the outlets are blanked off. Maybe the regs
have changed - or maybe they just want to save electricity?!

They seem to be stripping out as much as they can. It'll be 'bring your
own bed' next.

It's meant to be somewhere CHEAP to spend a night on a journey, not a
luxury hotel.

And we used them until they stripped them down to the bare bones. We
use Premier Travel Inn now.


Depends on the comparative costs for us - Premier inn are a bit better,
but seems easier to get good prices more often at Travelodge.

Just done some bookings (1 night this friday and a couple of nights in
April Preimer inn was lots (as in at 2-3 times the price at least), and
we need 2 rooms)

The clue is in the name - "Premier".

--
Peter is listening to "Ministry of Sound - The Sound of Dubstep 4"

In article , Tim Watts
scribeth thus
On 10/03/14 16:28, chris French wrote:

Depends on the comparative costs for us - Premier inn are a bit better,
but seems easier to get good prices more often at Travelodge.

Just done some bookings (1 night this friday and a couple of nights in
April Preimer inn was lots (as in at 2-3 times the price at least), and
we need 2 rooms)

Premier Inn tends to jump all over the place - prices seem very dynamic
- presumably dependent on how booked they are - well, what usually
happens is the super saver option disappears and you just get the
regular price.

I always check Tripadvisor before booking anything these days - what
looks shiny can quite often turn out to have a serious problem (thin
walls, noisy, crap food).

Aren't most of them?, there're putting one up here in Cambridge all wood
panels looks quite flimsy..


--
Tony Sayer

On 10/03/2014 17:21, Uncle Peter wrote:
The kitchen is full of earthed large metal appliances you could be
leaning touching with your knee. Which kinda defeats the purpose of the
earth.

Curiously enough I normally wear trousers when cooking.

AIUI even Naturists use aprons when frying...

Andy

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:43:02 -0000, Vir Campestris wrote:

On 10/03/2014 17:21, Uncle Peter wrote:
The kitchen is full of earthed large metal appliances you could be
leaning touching with your knee. Which kinda defeats the purpose of the
earth.

Curiously enough I normally wear trousers when cooking.

You never wear shorts in summer? You don't lean against something with your bare elbow in a tshirt?

AIUI even Naturists use aprons when frying...

They don't.

--
5 Brits were injured last year in accidents involving out of control Scalextric cars.

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:24:14 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:11:01 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:42:46 -0000,
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 12:04:08 AM UTC, F Murtz wrote:


Is that for plugging in the beer cooler or the little vacuum device
for sucking up spiders?

I bought a motorised barbecue cleaner from Australia once, it was
pathetic.

Must have been designed in the UK

No, it clearly said "Made in Australia".

But designed in UK.

Then they would have written that, so as not to be associated with it.

But then they might not have made any sales.

On 10/03/2014 15:19, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:49:02 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 10/03/2014 00:06, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 23:49:03 -0000, wrote:

On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
In the bath? Really?
In all sorts of places. My neighbour was shocked while up a ladder.
I was shocked while mowing the lawn, and while operating a wet and
dry hoover in the rain.
But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very
specific:
"IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the
bath!"

What makes you think a bath is any more dangerous? I suppose if it got
you on the gentleman's area it could hurt more, but it would be no more
likely to kill you.

The risk from a shock grows as the shock current rises, or the duration
increases.

The particular risk of baths and showers is that there is a greater
chance your skin will be wet, and this will reduce its electrical
resistance, and that in turn can increase the magnitude of the shock
current.

So while the 40ms response of the RCD is designed to limit the harm
caused, that does not mean it will be pain or damage free.

Well in the kitchen your hands are very often wet, and that's full of
sockets.

and most of us are wearing clothes...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 13:17:28 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 10/03/2014 15:19, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:49:02 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 10/03/2014 00:06, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 23:49:03 -0000, wrote:

On Sunday, 9 March 2014 22:17:24 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:

But we aren't talking about all those other places. You were very
specific:
"IF you've got an ELCB, you can't hurt yourself even if it was IN the
bath!"

What makes you think a bath is any more dangerous? I suppose if it got
you on the gentleman's area it could hurt more, but it would be no more
likely to kill you.

The risk from a shock grows as the shock current rises, or the duration
increases.

The particular risk of baths and showers is that there is a greater
chance your skin will be wet, and this will reduce its electrical
resistance, and that in turn can increase the magnitude of the shock
current.

So while the 40ms response of the RCD is designed to limit the harm
caused, that does not mean it will be pain or damage free.

Well in the kitchen your hands are very often wet, and that's full of
sockets.

and most of us are wearing clothes...

Take a live wire and press it against your tshirt.

--
A blonde is walking down a creek. While she's looking around she notices Judi walking along the other side of the creek. She yells to the other blonde. "Hey, how do I get to the other side?"
Judi replies, "You are on the other side!"