After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?

On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!

On 21/02/14 22:36, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!


Its not for want of wanting: essentially there are drivers that are not
under full gnu copyright and the broadcomm stuff is one. Its not legally
allowed to be part of the kernel - maybe it cant be because they don't
release the source.

In mint its a bit better, and IIRC in Ubuntu, because these a software
manager as well as a package manager, and that scoots round the hardware
and will recommend what it thinks are the best drivers.

Remember a lot of pressure is exerted by Microsoft for these hardware
johnnies NOT to release driver source code precisely so that people like
you will get upset by the fact you have to jump through small technical
hoops instead of the real commercial ones.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

in 1294412 20140221 223604 Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!

You could have done that by searching "b43" in the Package Manager!

On 21/02/2014 10:36 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!



I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

I abandoned the pleasures of Linux usage after a couple of years banging
my head on a brick wall. Every time I curse Windows 8 I remind myself of
Linux, and that calms me down again.

--
Bob - Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

Spin - the art of lying through your back teeth, whilst smiling through
the front ones.

On 22/02/14 09:37, Bob Henson wrote:
On 21/02/2014 10:36 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!



I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

I abandoned the pleasures of Linux usage after a couple of years banging
my head on a brick wall. Every time I curse Windows 8 I remind myself of
Linux, and that calms me down again.


tow years ago getting wifi up and making scanners work was iffy.

These days Linux has pretty much caught up.

Especially MINT which has tried to make the installation as seamless as
possible.

And a thumbs up for Scribus...on LInux.

needed to sign some year end **** from the accountant - they sent PDFS.
Scribus allowed me to import them, add digital signatures and send them
back duly signed and dated..

Libre Office also reads WORD files that microsoft word itself cant read.

When you realise that the tools on Linux are actually better than what
come on Windows without paying a thousand quid plus...





--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 09:37:51 +0000, Bob Henson wrote:

I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

As it happens, I had a very similar problem this week repurposing an old
(Vista based) Lenovo laptop - same wifi chipset. I was installing FreeBSD.

I ended up using the Windows NDIS driver in a wrapper - very easy to do,
and it worked first time.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


In mint its a bit better, and IIRC in Ubuntu, because these a software
manager as well as a package manager, and that scoots round the hardware
and will recommend what it thinks are the best drivers.

If (and it is a big if!) I'm going to change from XP to Linux then it
has to work with a large
number of Visio files that I have and need to retain access to. I read
that Libre office Draw will open
Visio files and libre office is included with Ubuntu hence making that
the linux flavour I've started to try first.
My motivation to try Linux is that there are doom & gloom merchants out
there that claim XP will become vulnerable once the MS support ceases in
a few weeks. I don't know enough to judge whether this is a real risk or
not but with six old PCs used for various tasks at home, buying Win 7
for each of these is not compatible with living as a pensioner!

Bob Minchin wrote:

I read that Libre office Draw will open Visio files and libre office
is included with Ubuntu hence making that the linux flavour I've
started to try first.

I use LibreOffice Draw to create documents that I might have used Visio
for previously, it *will* read Visio files but only gained that ability
relatively recently, I haven't actually tried that many, but would be
surprised if there aren't a few wrinkles.

It doesn't have the library of "smartshapes", you can create some out of
simple shapes and add glue-points to them.

Bob Henson wrote:
Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

Part of the difficulty is the Windows mindset of 'must install drivers'.
Which involves scrabbling around the internet (mobile network: no, dongle
manufacturer UK: no, dongle manufacturer India: found something but looks
dodgy, etc). In Linux the basic drivers are usually included or available
as a package. And you use the OS' dongle support, not the app that's
branded with whatever mobile network you're using this week.

Ubuntu supports a number of 3G dongles out of the box - plug it in, go to
Network Manager, it should appear. Then make a new GSM connection, tell it
your mobile network, and you're done. (Though I admit some dongles have
contorted hardware that makes it a bit harder)

It's actually worse on a Mac than on Linux, interestingly.

Theo

On Saturday, 22 February 2014 11:07:40 UTC, Theo Markettos wrote:
Bob Henson wrote:

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone

3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until

you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of

drivers with no instructions.



Part of the difficulty is the Windows mindset of 'must install drivers'.

Which involves scrabbling around the internet (mobile network: no, dongle

manufacturer UK: no, dongle manufacturer India: found something but looks

dodgy, etc). In Linux the basic drivers are usually included or available

as a package. And you use the OS' dongle support, not the app that's

branded with whatever mobile network you're using this week.



Ubuntu supports a number of 3G dongles out of the box - plug it in, go to

Network Manager, it should appear. Then make a new GSM connection, tell it

your mobile network, and you're done. (Though I admit some dongles have

contorted hardware that makes it a bit harder)



It's actually worse on a Mac than on Linux, interestingly.



Theo

I gather that Open and Libre Office can be a pain for Windows users looking to get it to print because it doesn't need the rigmarole required for Windows. It just assumes you have a printer and calls it.

Depending on what hardware one has I would say go for Ubuntu Ultimate Edition as it comes with everything and some. But it would be best to look up the computer before deciding on an OS. What I would need is an OS that will allow me to use third partyware automagically.

Not that I need it now Opera has become Chrome. (Or is Opera 12 still supported?)

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:36:04 +0000, Bob Minchin wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give
it a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does
not enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the
top right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be Use an ethernet cable between laptop and
router Boot ubuntu Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer sudo
apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!

Went through that a long while back on my Dell XPS 1530 - and wireless has
been fine since.

However the integrated Bluetooth on the same chip is not working and Ubuntu
can't seem to see a BT device.

I have managed by plugging in an old BT dongle (worked fine) but it is
still an irritation.

Cheers

Dave R

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:15:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/02/14 09:37, Bob Henson wrote:
On 21/02/2014 10:36 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!



I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

I abandoned the pleasures of Linux usage after a couple of years banging
my head on a brick wall. Every time I curse Windows 8 I remind myself of
Linux, and that calms me down again.


tow years ago getting wifi up and making scanners work was iffy.

These days Linux has pretty much caught up.

Especially MINT which has tried to make the installation as seamless as
possible.

And a thumbs up for Scribus...on LInux.


I've just gone through this process on an XP SP3 desktop. Had
problems with Ubuntu v13.x and an earlier one. Persisted and tried
Linux Mint XSE and it just worked first time - wireless USB, accessing
Windows files. Have some more work to do and need to get to grips
with the concepts. Linux folk seem unable to grasp that non-Linux
folk don't know Linux.


--
AnthonyL

On 22/02/2014 10:35, Bob Minchin wrote:
If (and it is a big if!) I'm going to change from XP to Linux then it
has to work with a large
number of Visio files that I have and need to retain access to. I read
that Libre office Draw will open
Visio files and libre office is included with Ubuntu hence making that
the linux flavour I've started to try first.


Libre Office is available on Windows. Why not try it there first?

Another Dave

--
Change nospam to gmx in e-mail.

On 22/02/2014 10:15 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/02/14 09:37, Bob Henson wrote:
On 21/02/2014 10:36 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!



I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

I abandoned the pleasures of Linux usage after a couple of years banging
my head on a brick wall. Every time I curse Windows 8 I remind myself of
Linux, and that calms me down again.


tow years ago getting wifi up and making scanners work was iffy.

These days Linux has pretty much caught up.

Especially MINT which has tried to make the installation as seamless as
possible.


That's the main one I used, along with Debian stable - I think you'll
find the latest version still won't run Wifi "out of the box" on a
Broadcom chipped laptop. And many similar things than run just fine on
Windows.


And a thumbs up for Scribus...on LInux.

needed to sign some year end **** from the accountant - they sent PDFS.
Scribus allowed me to import them, add digital signatures and send them
back duly signed and dated..

Runs on Windows, so Linux is not needed.

Libre Office also reads WORD files that microsoft word itself cant read.


Runs on Windows, so Linux isn't needed.


When you realise that the tools on Linux are actually better than what
come on Windows without paying a thousand quid plus...


What about a decent video editor? Or the latest games? And a long list
of other things. I like Linux, but it is very limited. It's recent
attempts to keep up with the trendy GUis have spoilt it too - what used
to be tiny and fast is now become as bloated as Windows - but flakier.

--
Bob - Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

The secret of a successful relationship is incompatibility - he has to
have the income, she has to have the patibility.

On 22/02/2014 10:22 AM, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 09:37:51 +0000, Bob Henson wrote:

I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

As it happens, I had a very similar problem this week repurposing an old
(Vista based) Lenovo laptop - same wifi chipset. I was installing FreeBSD.

I ended up using the Windows NDIS driver in a wrapper - very easy to do,
and it worked first time.


But a newcomer would have no idea how to do that or even that you could
do it. They just expect things to work.

--
Bob - Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

"I am" is the shortest English Sentence. "I do" gets you the longest.

Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


In mint its a bit better, and IIRC in Ubuntu, because these a software
manager as well as a package manager, and that scoots round the hardware
and will recommend what it thinks are the best drivers.

If (and it is a big if!) I'm going to change from XP to Linux then it
has to work with a large
number of Visio files that I have and need to retain access to. I read
that Libre office Draw will open
Visio files and libre office is included with Ubuntu hence making that
the linux flavour I've started to try first.
My motivation to try Linux is that there are doom & gloom merchants out
there that claim XP will become vulnerable once the MS support ceases in
a few weeks. I don't know enough to judge whether this is a real risk or
not but with six old PCs used for various tasks at home, buying Win 7
for each of these is not compatible with living as a pensioner!


My opinion, probably worthless, is that XP doesn't need updating. I'm
still on XP service pack 2 and never update. If you're not trying to buy
things or bank on a Windows computer is security important? Agreed
later versions of things can do more tricks, but for email, word
processing etc, what is going to go wrong if you print a copy for the
file and back up occasionally?

I didn't have the Ubuntu wifi problems described, the netbook version
worked on my Dell mini and 8 worked on the wifi computer in a spare
room, since updated to 10.4. I'll probably try Mint later this year, as
another unit with an old version of Mandriva on needs a revamp.

Bob Minchin wrote:


After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!


Well if you dont like it you could always get a refund on the huge amount
of money you paid for it.
or just RTFM next time.

-

On 22/02/14 10:22, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 09:37:51 +0000, Bob Henson wrote:

I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

As it happens, I had a very similar problem this week repurposing an old
(Vista based) Lenovo laptop - same wifi chipset. I was installing FreeBSD.

I ended up using the Windows NDIS driver in a wrapper - very easy to do,
and it worked first time.

If you knew as much about NDIS as I do you wouldn't be so happy..nightmare.

MOST of the wifi chips of reasonable vintage have had the drivers
reverse engineered. And have native drivers, its just hard finding them.

Which is why I like Mint. Its knows about hardware and makes the problem
of finding the right driver a lot easier.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 22/02/14 12:42, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:15:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/02/14 09:37, Bob Henson wrote:
On 21/02/2014 10:36 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!



I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

I abandoned the pleasures of Linux usage after a couple of years banging
my head on a brick wall. Every time I curse Windows 8 I remind myself of
Linux, and that calms me down again.


tow years ago getting wifi up and making scanners work was iffy.

These days Linux has pretty much caught up.

Especially MINT which has tried to make the installation as seamless as
possible.

And a thumbs up for Scribus...on LInux.


I've just gone through this process on an XP SP3 desktop. Had
problems with Ubuntu v13.x and an earlier one. Persisted and tried
Linux Mint XSE and it just worked first time - wireless USB, accessing
Windows files. Have some more work to do and need to get to grips
with the concepts. Linux folk seem unable to grasp that non-Linux
folk don't know Linux.


except the MInty lot, who are absolutely making it look like XP to make
it easy for people who neither know nor care about linux. They just want
a usable PC.,




--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 22/02/14 15:54, Bob Henson wrote:
On 22/02/2014 10:15 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/02/14 09:37, Bob Henson wrote:
On 21/02/2014 10:36 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!



I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

I abandoned the pleasures of Linux usage after a couple of years banging
my head on a brick wall. Every time I curse Windows 8 I remind myself of
Linux, and that calms me down again.


tow years ago getting wifi up and making scanners work was iffy.

These days Linux has pretty much caught up.

Especially MINT which has tried to make the installation as seamless as
possible.


That's the main one I used, along with Debian stable - I think you'll
find the latest version still won't run Wifi "out of the box" on a
Broadcom chipped laptop. And many similar things than run just fine on
Windows.


And a thumbs up for Scribus...on LInux.

needed to sign some year end **** from the accountant - they sent PDFS.
Scribus allowed me to import them, add digital signatures and send them
back duly signed and dated..

Runs on Windows, so Linux is not needed.

Libre Office also reads WORD files that microsoft word itself cant read.


Runs on Windows, so Linux isn't needed.


When you realise that the tools on Linux are actually better than what
come on Windows without paying a thousand quid plus...


What about a decent video editor? Or the latest games? And a long list
of other things. I like Linux, but it is very limited. It's recent
attempts to keep up with the trendy GUis have spoilt it too - what used
to be tiny and fast is now become as bloated as Windows - but flakier.

Horse for courses. I don't play many games - just whats on Linux.

And saying something is also available for windows is a bit like saying
you can get a turbocharger rev up kit for a morris minor. You can, but I
wouldn't start from there.

You don't need a porsche, but wouldn't you rather have one that costs
nothing than a clapped out 30 year old OS that still has drum brakes and
cart springs??

The video editor I uses is open shot. Whether it counts as decent I
don't know. But it suffices for me.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 22/02/14 17:25, Capitol wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


In mint its a bit better, and IIRC in Ubuntu, because these a software
manager as well as a package manager, and that scoots round the hardware
and will recommend what it thinks are the best drivers.

If (and it is a big if!) I'm going to change from XP to Linux then it
has to work with a large
number of Visio files that I have and need to retain access to. I read
that Libre office Draw will open
Visio files and libre office is included with Ubuntu hence making that
the linux flavour I've started to try first.
My motivation to try Linux is that there are doom & gloom merchants out
there that claim XP will become vulnerable once the MS support ceases in
a few weeks. I don't know enough to judge whether this is a real risk or
not but with six old PCs used for various tasks at home, buying Win 7
for each of these is not compatible with living as a pensioner!


My opinion, probably worthless, is that XP doesn't need updating.
I'm still on XP service pack 2 and never update. If you're not trying to
buy things or bank on a Windows computer is security important? Agreed
later versions of things can do more tricks, but for email, word
processing etc, what is going to go wrong if you print a copy for the
file and back up occasionally?


well I still run it in VM

It crashes reasonably frequently - not enough RAM for big graphics jobs.

But I haven't any more to spare without changing motherboards..



I didn't have the Ubuntu wifi problems described, the netbook
version worked on my Dell mini and 8 worked on the wifi computer in a
spare room, since updated to 10.4. I'll probably try Mint later this
year, as another unit with an old version of Mandriva on needs a revamp.

I've got broadcomm wifi on the lappie and yes, up to mint 14 you still
need to install the firmware package, but you can do that via synaptic.,

There are legal reasons why it cant be bundled in the distro - same goes
for nvidia native drivers.

That's one of the things that got better in Mint 15,
---------------
"The "Driver Manager" is an independent application, separate from
"Software Sources" and which you can launch straight from the menu.

Drivers are listed by package name, and their version are clearly stated
(in the case of the nVidia drivers you can therefore choose according to
a particular version instead of wondering what "current" or "updates"
really mean).

Devices from popular brands (nVidia, ATI, Broadcom, Samsung...) are
illustrated with an icon."
------------------

So Mint 15 and above you SHOULD be able to install with a wired
connection, and then hit the driver manager to see what extra drivers
you need, and then simply install them.

Then its wifi and upwards...

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:32:27 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/02/14 10:22, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 09:37:51 +0000, Bob Henson wrote:

I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new
kernel release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43
chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle
of some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

As it happens, I had a very similar problem this week repurposing an
old (Vista based) Lenovo laptop - same wifi chipset. I was installing
FreeBSD.

I ended up using the Windows NDIS driver in a wrapper - very easy to
do, and it worked first time.

If you knew as much about NDIS as I do you wouldn't be so
happy..nightmare.

Actually, I do. Done a lot of work on them, including writing one or two.

MOST of the wifi chips of reasonable vintage have had the drivers
reverse engineered. And have native drivers, its just hard finding them.

Oh, I found the native driver - it was installed at the start. The
problem is that in this particular laptop there was some slightly
nonstandard circuitry around the chip which made that driver unreliable.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Mark wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:


After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!


Well if you dont like it you could always get a refund on the huge amount
of money you paid for it.
or just RTFM next time.

-

OOI, where is the TFM so I could R it?
ubuntu ver 10.04

TIA

Bob Minchin wrote:
Mark wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:


After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would
give it
a try out.

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!


Well if you dont like it you could always get a refund on the huge
amount
of money you paid for it.
or just RTFM next time.

-

OOI, where is the TFM so I could R it?
ubuntu ver 10.04

TIA
oops ver 12.04

Bob Minchin wrote:

Mark wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:


After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give
it a try out.

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!


Well if you dont like it you could always get a refund on the huge
amount of money you paid for it.
or just RTFM next time.

-

OOI, where is the TFM so I could R it?
ubuntu ver 10.04

TIA

Ubuntu documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/

or if you just need to ask a question
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay...326&order=desc

Very helpful and friendly forum, but best not to finish your query with
remark like above if you expect to get help

HTH

-

On 22/02/2014 15:55, Bob Henson wrote:
On 22/02/2014 10:22 AM, Bob Eager wrote:

I ended up using the Windows NDIS driver in a wrapper - very easy to do,
and it worked first time.


But a newcomer would have no idea how to do that or even that you could
do it. They just expect things to work.


And so they should. This OS installation stuff is the domain of people
that want to fiddle, not the unwashed.

Joe public would want something already configured with a helpline when
stuck. Drivers, applications, patches and security are beneath them from
the up.

Where to buy something preinstalled with Mint from?

Dunno. PC World & John Lewis aren't interested...

--
Adrian C

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:39:09 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/02/14 12:42, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:15:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/02/14 09:37, Bob Henson wrote:
On 21/02/2014 10:36 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!



I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

I abandoned the pleasures of Linux usage after a couple of years banging
my head on a brick wall. Every time I curse Windows 8 I remind myself of
Linux, and that calms me down again.


tow years ago getting wifi up and making scanners work was iffy.

These days Linux has pretty much caught up.

Especially MINT which has tried to make the installation as seamless as
possible.

And a thumbs up for Scribus...on LInux.


I've just gone through this process on an XP SP3 desktop. Had
problems with Ubuntu v13.x and an earlier one. Persisted and tried
Linux Mint XSE and it just worked first time - wireless USB, accessing
Windows files. Have some more work to do and need to get to grips
with the concepts. Linux folk seem unable to grasp that non-Linux
folk don't know Linux.


except the MInty lot, who are absolutely making it look like XP to make
it easy for people who neither know nor care about linux. They just want
a usable PC.,

Now, if they could only make it look like win2k, they'd be on to a
winner! :-)
--
Regards, J B Good

On 24/02/14 01:37, Johny B Good wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:39:09 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/02/14 12:42, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:15:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/02/14 09:37, Bob Henson wrote:
On 21/02/2014 10:36 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/14 21:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give it
a try out.
I've installed a dual boot version of ubuntu 12.04.4 alongside XP home
on my Dell d420 laptop.
With XP, the internal wifi module switches itself on but ubuntu does not
enable the module and so does not detect it.
In comparison the bluetooth module is left on and has an icon in the top
right of the screen.
HTF do I get out of this trap please?



You may need some firmware added.

Google the wifi adapter and see - what you need is a temporary wired
connection so you can do an 'apt-get install' on the missing bits.

Or use the inbuilt stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJvB97cmrWk

may help

Thanks to TNP for the steer.

Just in case it might help someone else in the same predicament

Using windows device mangler the wifi card is a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN
mini card.
Looking that up adding linux in google led to a successful process.

The process turned out to be
Use an ethernet cable between laptop and router
Boot ubuntu
Type cntrl alt T to get a command prompt

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
sudo apt-get remove bcmwl-kernel-source

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!



I had the same problem with my old Acer. More than that, one new kernel
release wouldn't even install if it came across a Broadcom B43 chipset -
there were a couple of other Broadcom sets it didn't like too, as I
recall. The problem is that the chipset is so old - it doesn't happen
with newer kit - so I'm afraid you're unlikely to get your wish for
newer drivers. Another way round it is to use an external WiFi dongle of
some description (newish) and turn off the internal one.

Anyway, if you think that's tricky, wait until you try to use a Vodafone
3G dongle with it and find that the software is all Windows only until
you find their obscure research (?) website, which has an assortment of
drivers with no instructions.

I abandoned the pleasures of Linux usage after a couple of years banging
my head on a brick wall. Every time I curse Windows 8 I remind myself of
Linux, and that calms me down again.


tow years ago getting wifi up and making scanners work was iffy.

These days Linux has pretty much caught up.

Especially MINT which has tried to make the installation as seamless as
possible.

And a thumbs up for Scribus...on LInux.


I've just gone through this process on an XP SP3 desktop. Had
problems with Ubuntu v13.x and an earlier one. Persisted and tried
Linux Mint XSE and it just worked first time - wireless USB, accessing
Windows files. Have some more work to do and need to get to grips
with the concepts. Linux folk seem unable to grasp that non-Linux
folk don't know Linux.


except the MInty lot, who are absolutely making it look like XP to make
it easy for people who neither know nor care about linux. They just want
a usable PC.,

Now, if they could only make it look like win2k, they'd be on to a
winner! :-)

You can make it look like that if you want..
That would probably be the KDE edition...


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Mark wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

Mark wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:


After all the posts in here advocating Linux, I thought I would give
it a try out.

Completely unintuitive to anyone starting out.

Who ever is behind ubuntu needs to get such essential drivers built in
pronto. So far unimpressed!


Well if you dont like it you could always get a refund on the huge
amount of money you paid for it.
or just RTFM next time.

-

OOI, where is the TFM so I could R it?
ubuntu ver 10.04

TIA

Ubuntu documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/

or if you just need to ask a question
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay...326&order=desc

Very helpful and friendly forum, but best not to finish your query with
remark like above if you expect to get help

HTH

-

Thanks Mark

On 24/02/14 09:39, Bob Minchin wrote:

Ubuntu documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/

or if you just need to ask a question
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay...326&order=desc

Very helpful and friendly forum, but best not to finish your query with
remark like above if you expect to get help

HTH

-

Thanks Mark

the thing you need to understand is that there is no 'official' support
for Linux unless you buy a 'commercial' version like Red Hat.

This is 'help each other' territory.

And the Ubuntu and Mint fora are very very good in that respect.

Its all very D-I-Y in that respect.

I think Ubuntu was the first to really say 'lets make it as easy as
windows to get working, and package up all the useful stuff that most
people want' and Mint has taken up where Ubuntu lost direction and went
all 'touch screen'

The desktop market is shrinking however, and most people of the 'noddy'
variety are buying fondleslabs of one sort or another. Mostly hooked
into someone else's Cloud.

I suspect that Linux will mature into THE desktop to use in a few years.

And then the big apps will get ported to it.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 24/02/2014 10:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/02/14 09:39, Bob Minchin wrote:

Ubuntu documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/

or if you just need to ask a question
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay...326&order=desc

Very helpful and friendly forum, but best not to finish your query with
remark like above if you expect to get help

HTH

-

Thanks Mark

the thing you need to understand is that there is no 'official' support
for Linux unless you buy a 'commercial' version like Red Hat.

This is 'help each other' territory.

And the Ubuntu and Mint fora are very very good in that respect.

Its all very D-I-Y in that respect.

I think Ubuntu was the first to really say 'lets make it as easy as
windows to get working, and package up all the useful stuff that most
people want' and Mint has taken up where Ubuntu lost direction and went
all 'touch screen'

The desktop market is shrinking however, and most people of the 'noddy'
variety are buying fondleslabs of one sort or another. Mostly hooked
into someone else's Cloud.

I suspect that Linux will mature into THE desktop to use in a few years.

And then the big apps will get ported to it.



That's quite possible - if a long way off. It seems to me, with the
disaster that is Windows 8, that Microsoft have abandoned the desktop
and enterprise market altogether. The former doesn't surprise me, but
the latter does. Before Linux can take any of the enterprise market, it
will have to decide which Linux implementation on which to standardise,
though - the current mess of versions and interpretations won't do.

--
Bob - Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

Dolphins are smart - they train people to stand and throw them fish.

Bob Henson wrote:
On 24/02/2014 10:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/02/14 09:39, Bob Minchin wrote:

Ubuntu documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/

or if you just need to ask a question
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay...326&order=desc

Very helpful and friendly forum, but best not to finish your query with
remark like above if you expect to get help

HTH

-

Thanks Mark

the thing you need to understand is that there is no 'official' support
for Linux unless you buy a 'commercial' version like Red Hat.

This is 'help each other' territory.

And the Ubuntu and Mint fora are very very good in that respect.

Its all very D-I-Y in that respect.

I think Ubuntu was the first to really say 'lets make it as easy as
windows to get working, and package up all the useful stuff that most
people want' and Mint has taken up where Ubuntu lost direction and went
all 'touch screen'

The desktop market is shrinking however, and most people of the 'noddy'
variety are buying fondleslabs of one sort or another. Mostly hooked
into someone else's Cloud.

I suspect that Linux will mature into THE desktop to use in a few years.

And then the big apps will get ported to it.



That's quite possible - if a long way off. It seems to me, with the
disaster that is Windows 8, that Microsoft have abandoned the desktop
and enterprise market altogether. The former doesn't surprise me, but
the latter does. Before Linux can take any of the enterprise market, it
will have to decide which Linux implementation on which to standardise,
though - the current mess of versions and interpretations won't do.


With Android(linux) now being available in fondle slabs up to 24inch
and keyboards being an option, I think we are seeing the desktop Linux
appear. The children are more familiar with Android than Microsoft in
many households and it's cheaper.

On 24/02/2014 4:06 PM, Capitol wrote:
Bob Henson wrote:
On 24/02/2014 10:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/02/14 09:39, Bob Minchin wrote:

Ubuntu documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/

or if you just need to ask a question
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay...326&order=desc

Very helpful and friendly forum, but best not to finish your query with
remark like above if you expect to get help

HTH

-

Thanks Mark

the thing you need to understand is that there is no 'official' support
for Linux unless you buy a 'commercial' version like Red Hat.

This is 'help each other' territory.

And the Ubuntu and Mint fora are very very good in that respect.

Its all very D-I-Y in that respect.

I think Ubuntu was the first to really say 'lets make it as easy as
windows to get working, and package up all the useful stuff that most
people want' and Mint has taken up where Ubuntu lost direction and went
all 'touch screen'

The desktop market is shrinking however, and most people of the 'noddy'
variety are buying fondleslabs of one sort or another. Mostly hooked
into someone else's Cloud.

I suspect that Linux will mature into THE desktop to use in a few years.

And then the big apps will get ported to it.



That's quite possible - if a long way off. It seems to me, with the
disaster that is Windows 8, that Microsoft have abandoned the desktop
and enterprise market altogether. The former doesn't surprise me, but
the latter does. Before Linux can take any of the enterprise market, it
will have to decide which Linux implementation on which to standardise,
though - the current mess of versions and interpretations won't do.


With Android(linux) now being available in fondle slabs up to 24inch
and keyboards being an option, I think we are seeing the desktop Linux
appear. The children are more familiar with Android than Microsoft in
many households and it's cheaper.


If I were running Google, I would be guessing that I could have the
entire desktop/enterprise market if I tried hard, and producing a
suitable version of Android with menu driven GUI.

--
Bob - Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 08:18:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 24/02/14 01:37, Johny B Good wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:39:09 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:




except the MInty lot, who are absolutely making it look like XP to make
it easy for people who neither know nor care about linux. They just want
a usable PC.,

Now, if they could only make it look like win2k, they'd be on to a
winner! :-)

You can make it look like that if you want..
That would probably be the KDE edition...

As a matter of fact, it was the Knoppix Live CD KDE desktop in
versions 4 and 5 that really appealed to me. Close enough to windows
desktop to keep the 'learning curve' way below that of Vista (and
offspring). Unfortunately, if you opted to install it to the hard
drive, you got a 'Box Standard' Debian Desktop that looked nothing
like the Live version. :-(

Version 10.04 (istr) of Ubuntu had a close approximation. The only
irritation was the windows controls being placed to suit left handed
mouse users.

I've currently got Mint 15 installed on that aforementioned 30GB
Kingston SSD for testing with an Asrock AM2+ MoBo and 2.6GHz Athlon 64
X2 cpu.

I've installed (several months back now) VirtualBox and can boot into
the win2k VM from stone cold (that is from switch on, booting into
Mint, followed by firing up the win2k VM) in about half the time it
takes to boot my normal win2k system (similar vintage MoBo with 3.1GH
dual core Phenom)[1].

Mint definitely looks the more promising of the Ubuntu 'variations'
of Debian Linux from my PoV (and probablythat of most windows users
dreading their next PC purchase on account of win8.* as well if they
only knew about this possibility).

It seems I installed Mint15 about 3 months back but I've hardly done
anything with it since the only spare AM2 CPU was a single core 2.2GHz
Semperon and I needed the use of a dual core CPU to make further
testing worth my time.

Funnily enough, my son just presented me with his 'redundent
dinosaur' Dell Dimension E521 late last night to use for spares and I
recovered a nice 2.6GHz Athlon 64 X2 to replace the Semperon, so my
interest in testing Mint is now revived. :-)

[1] This slow boot is an artifact of SATA/win2k boot emulating the
pointless search for bootable devices that afflicted SCSI connected
drive setups over a decade back. Unfortunately, there's no fix for
this annoyance unlike the situation with the adaptec HBA setup bios
where it proved possible to trim the additional 3 1/2 minute delay to
a more forgivable 30 second delay.
--
Regards, J B Good

On 24 Feb 2014 22:12:39 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2014-02-24, Johny B Good wrote:

Version 10.04 (istr) of Ubuntu had a close approximation. The only
irritation was the windows controls being placed to suit left handed
mouse users.

gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string "menu:minimize,maximize,close,"

Sorted.

Thanks for that but I'm afraid that particular horse has well and
truly bolted and the later Ubuntu versions seem to have gotten rid of
the stable door, never mind locking it! :-(
--
Regards, J B Good

Johny B Good wrote:

except the MInty lot, who are absolutely making it look like XP to make
it easy for people who neither know nor care about linux. They just want
a usable PC.,

Now, if they could only make it look like win2k, they'd be on to a
winner! :-)


well of course everyone idea of what a desktop gui should look like differs
but personally i find Ubuntu pig ugly and always have done, which is why i
use Xubuntu with Xfce
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7518/snzo.png
http://img.vivaolinux.com.br/imagens...dade/grass.png

-

On 24/02/14 14:12, Bob Henson wrote:
On 24/02/2014 10:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/02/14 09:39, Bob Minchin wrote:

Ubuntu documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/

or if you just need to ask a question
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay...326&order=desc

Very helpful and friendly forum, but best not to finish your query with
remark like above if you expect to get help

HTH

-

Thanks Mark

the thing you need to understand is that there is no 'official' support
for Linux unless you buy a 'commercial' version like Red Hat.

This is 'help each other' territory.

And the Ubuntu and Mint fora are very very good in that respect.

Its all very D-I-Y in that respect.

I think Ubuntu was the first to really say 'lets make it as easy as
windows to get working, and package up all the useful stuff that most
people want' and Mint has taken up where Ubuntu lost direction and went
all 'touch screen'

The desktop market is shrinking however, and most people of the 'noddy'
variety are buying fondleslabs of one sort or another. Mostly hooked
into someone else's Cloud.

I suspect that Linux will mature into THE desktop to use in a few years.

And then the big apps will get ported to it.



That's quite possible - if a long way off. It seems to me, with the
disaster that is Windows 8, that Microsoft have abandoned the desktop
and enterprise market altogether. The former doesn't surprise me, but
the latter does. Before Linux can take any of the enterprise market, it
will have to decide which Linux implementation on which to standardise,
though - the current mess of versions and interpretations won't do.

It doesn't really matter. there are really only twow contenders - debian
based including ubuntuo and mint, and fedora based.

they use different package management systems to a fire it up and it
goes package needs to be n both flavours. Its no big deal

Provide the package also has its dependencies OK it will; load the right
libraries and install them too if necessary.

There is no reason the packages couldn't be simply downloaded from a
'non free' repository and people then had to pay money for a magic key.
Or for support.






--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 24/02/14 18:50, Bob Henson wrote:
On 24/02/2014 4:06 PM, Capitol wrote:
Bob Henson wrote:
On 24/02/2014 10:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/02/14 09:39, Bob Minchin wrote:

Ubuntu documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/

or if you just need to ask a question
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay...326&order=desc

Very helpful and friendly forum, but best not to finish your query with
remark like above if you expect to get help

HTH

-

Thanks Mark

the thing you need to understand is that there is no 'official' support
for Linux unless you buy a 'commercial' version like Red Hat.

This is 'help each other' territory.

And the Ubuntu and Mint fora are very very good in that respect.

Its all very D-I-Y in that respect.

I think Ubuntu was the first to really say 'lets make it as easy as
windows to get working, and package up all the useful stuff that most
people want' and Mint has taken up where Ubuntu lost direction and went
all 'touch screen'

The desktop market is shrinking however, and most people of the 'noddy'
variety are buying fondleslabs of one sort or another. Mostly hooked
into someone else's Cloud.

I suspect that Linux will mature into THE desktop to use in a few years.

And then the big apps will get ported to it.



That's quite possible - if a long way off. It seems to me, with the
disaster that is Windows 8, that Microsoft have abandoned the desktop
and enterprise market altogether. The former doesn't surprise me, but
the latter does. Before Linux can take any of the enterprise market, it
will have to decide which Linux implementation on which to standardise,
though - the current mess of versions and interpretations won't do.


With Android(linux) now being available in fondle slabs up to 24inch
and keyboards being an option, I think we are seeing the desktop Linux
appear. The children are more familiar with Android than Microsoft in
many households and it's cheaper.


If I were running Google, I would be guessing that I could have the
entire desktop/enterprise market if I tried hard, and producing a
suitable version of Android with menu driven GUI.

google chrome...

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.