I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always, always,
always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted cultural thing.

Even though you have quoted a price for a job in advance, they will
always, always, always try to get a few quid knocked off when it comes
to payment time.

So I've adopted the tactic of adding £10 or £20 to the estimate, knowing
full well they always, always, always haggle.

I did that today - and they just paid up, no haggling!

I feel slightly guilty now......






--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 28/01/2014 17:48, The Medway Handyman wrote:
I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always, always,
always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted cultural thing.

Even though you have quoted a price for a job in advance, they will
always, always, always try to get a few quid knocked off when it comes
to payment time.

So I've adopted the tactic of adding £10 or £20 to the estimate, knowing
full well they always, always, always haggle.

I did that today - and they just paid up, no haggling!

I feel slightly guilty now......

You could have immediately given a small discount for instant payment.:-)

Why feel guilty? If they accepted your estimate at the quoted price
they must have considered the job worth the money.


--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

"Old Codger" wrote in message
...
On 28/01/2014 17:48, The Medway Handyman wrote:
I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always, always,
always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted cultural thing.

Even though you have quoted a price for a job in advance, they will
always, always, always try to get a few quid knocked off when it comes
to payment time.

So I've adopted the tactic of adding £10 or £20 to the estimate, knowing
full well they always, always, always haggle.

I did that today - and they just paid up, no haggling!

I feel slightly guilty now......

You could have immediately given a small discount for instant payment.:-)

Why feel guilty? If they accepted your estimate at the quoted price they
must have considered the job worth the money.

Or, he could have said, "I'm taking my parts out then" The parts he used for
the job that is.
I did that once. The "ethnic origin" ****stomer paid in full.


--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

The Medway Handyman wrote:
I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always, always,
always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted cultural thing.

These deep rooted cultural things always seem to work in their favour.

They're in Britain now (unfortunately) where we have a deep rooted
cultural thing to pay the agreed price. Tell them that if they want to
live here they should do the same. They are such cheeky *******s.

If they still haggle tell them you have a deep rooted cultural desire to
smack them about a bit. They are such cheeky *******s, they take your
breath away.

Bill

In article , The Medway Handyman
scribeth thus
I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always, always,
always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted cultural thing.


Din't know there were east Anglian grain barons in your neck of the
woods;?..

Even though you have quoted a price for a job in advance, they will
always, always, always try to get a few quid knocked off when it comes
to payment time.

So I've adopted the tactic of adding £10 or £20 to the estimate, knowing
full well they always, always, always haggle.

I did that today - and they just paid up, no haggling!

I feel slightly guilty now......


Nah!, Standard practice round these parts, they think there're getting a
real bargain..






--
Tony Sayer

On 28/01/2014 21:04, Bill Wright wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always,
always, always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted
cultural thing.

These deep rooted cultural things always seem to work in their favour.

They're in Britain now (unfortunately) where we have a deep rooted
cultural thing to pay the agreed price. Tell them that if they want to
live here they should do the same. They are such cheeky *******s.

The times they are a-changin'

According to Which? haggling is becoming more normal in retail
electricals, for example. I just heard of someone today who asked for a
Price Match in John Lewis (his wife didn't want him to bother) on a
£1700 TV. Rather than getting the £50 he expected, he actually got £250
which was the difference in "advertised" prices even though John Lewis
had a 5 year warrenty while the other dealer had a 2 year one (and would
have charged £200 to top it up to five).

Which tells you something about the mark-up on such things.

In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always, always,
always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted cultural thing.

Even though you have quoted a price for a job in advance, they will
always, always, always try to get a few quid knocked off when it comes
to payment time.

So I've adopted the tactic of adding £10 or £20 to the estimate,
knowing full well they always, always, always haggle.

I did that today - and they just paid up, no haggling!

I feel slightly guilty now......






Then ease your conscience and send me the excess
--
bert

On Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:48:00 PM UTC, The Medway Handyman wrote:
I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always, always,

always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted cultural thing.

I think it's something to do with the historical sanctity of "the word" amongst the Judaeo/Christian cultures;
"In the beginning was the word...", "My word is my bond" etc...

It may now be archaic, but the whole legal framework is based upon it.

Contract law covers everything from buying a box of matches to building a satellite and all depends on the word, the promises, of both parties; that they'll deliver the specified goods/services and deliver the specified monies.

The Hindu/ Moslem lot don't do that. They think they're being clever and don't anticipate that they will only damage their reputation as a group.

It might be described as prejudice, but it isn't. It is judging a risk, based on prior experience.

It's postjudice; that's a greatly underused word.

To help your guilty conscience, I'll take it off your hands.

I was ripped off for £20 by one of that lot, I'm sure it was the same bloke. They all look the same to me, etc..

In article ,
Onetap wrote:
Contract law covers everything from buying a box of matches to building
a satellite and all depends on the word, the promises, of both parties;
that they'll deliver the specified goods/services and deliver the
specified monies.

The Hindu/ Moslem lot don't do that. They think they're being clever
and don't anticipate that they will only damage their reputation as a
group.

I take it you've never bought a house in England in a busy market? Any
verbal agreement between buyer and seller means f**k all.

--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 04:26:16 -0800, Onetap wrote:

I think it's something to do with the historical sanctity of "the word"
amongst the Judaeo/Christian cultures;
"In the beginning was the word...", "My word is my bond" etc...
....
The Hindu/ Moslem lot don't do that.

Lemme guess, you don't remember much about RE from school?

Here's a clue: "The Moslem lot" are also part of "Judeo-Christian
culture".

On Tuesday, 28 January 2014 20:43:23 UTC, Mr Pounder wrote:
"Old Codger" wrote in message

...

On 28/01/2014 17:48, The Medway Handyman wrote:

I often work for people of a certain ethnic origin, who always, always,

always haggle about the final bill. It's a deep rooted cultural thing..



Even though you have quoted a price for a job in advance, they will

always, always, always try to get a few quid knocked off when it comes

to payment time.



So I've adopted the tactic of adding £10 or £20 to the estimate, knowing

full well they always, always, always haggle.



I did that today - and they just paid up, no haggling!



I feel slightly guilty now......



You could have immediately given a small discount for instant payment.:-)



Why feel guilty? If they accepted your estimate at the quoted price they

must have considered the job worth the money.



Or, he could have said, "I'm taking my parts out then" The parts he used for

the job that is.

I did that once. The "ethnic origin" ****stomer paid in full.

A gardening friend of mine almost doubles his estimate/quote for these types
as there's little chance they won't haggle or misunderstand the quote, or at the very least pay late.
He said he'd rather not work for them given the choice.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Onetap wrote:
Contract law covers everything from buying a box of matches to
building a satellite and all depends on the word, the promises, of
both parties; that they'll deliver the specified goods/services and
deliver the specified monies.

The Hindu/ Moslem lot don't do that. They think they're being
clever and don't anticipate that they will only damage their
reputation as a group.

I take it you've never bought a house in England in a busy market? Any
verbal agreement between buyer and seller means f**k all.

True, but AIUI, it's the only sphere in which a verbal contract is
worthless.

Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the single
most important purchase most make isn't protected while trivial things are.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many months.
Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune in surveys,
etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the hope it won't happen
again.

--
*Geeks shall inherit the earth *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
A gardening friend of mine almost doubles his estimate/quote for these
types as there's little chance they won't haggle or misunderstand the
quote, or at the very least pay late. He said he'd rather not work for
them given the choice.

If he is double the price of others, I'd guess he'll not get the work
anyway. ;-)

--
*People want trepanners like they want a hole in the head*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 29 January 2014 14:31:12 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

whisky-dave wrote:

A gardening friend of mine almost doubles his estimate/quote for these

types as there's little chance they won't haggle or misunderstand the

quote, or at the very least pay late. He said he'd rather not work for

them given the choice.



If he is double the price of others, I'd guess he'll not get the work

anyway. ;-)

you'd be suprised how many accept the quote then won't pay up or ask for extra work to be done without charge, so he knows he can agree to 'lose' a certain amount haggling and from that he can get an impression as to whether they'll pay up or not at the end of the job.

His best customers tend to be gay couples of either sex.



*People want trepanners like they want a hole in the head*



Dave Plowman London SW

To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:30:10 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:



Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the single
most important purchase most make isn't protected while trivial things are.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many months.
Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune in surveys,
etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the hope it won't happen
again.


In London?
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

True, but AIUI, it's the only sphere in which a verbal contract is
worthless.

Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the
single most important purchase most make isn't protected while
trivial things are.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many
months. Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune
in surveys, etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the
hope it won't happen again.

The point with buying houses in England is that you don't have a
contract until you have exchanged contracts (sic). How many buyers
would really want that initial offer and acceptance to bind them so eg
they can't walk away if eg the survey shows problems or the mortgage
offer falls through?

Things are different in Scotland of course - arguably better overall but
*very* different
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

In article ,
mogga wrote:
Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the
single most important purchase most make isn't protected while trivial
things are.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many
months. Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune in
surveys, etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the hope it
won't happen again.


In London?

Yup - SE area.

--
*Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of cheques *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29/01/2014 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Onetap wrote:
Contract law covers everything from buying a box of matches to
building a satellite and all depends on the word, the promises, of
both parties; that they'll deliver the specified goods/services and
deliver the specified monies.

The Hindu/ Moslem lot don't do that. They think they're being
clever and don't anticipate that they will only damage their
reputation as a group.

I take it you've never bought a house in England in a busy market? Any
verbal agreement between buyer and seller means f**k all.

True, but AIUI, it's the only sphere in which a verbal contract is
worthless.

Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the single
most important purchase most make isn't protected while trivial things are.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many months.
Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune in surveys,
etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the hope it won't happen
again.

If one wasn't so emotionally involved in purchasing, I would have no
compassion for the vendor and say I would match their price.

Then sit on the purchase and do nothing.

If the vendor becomes anxious because they might no longer be able to
purchase their house of their dreams I would offer the original price
that was first accepted.

For info, my word is good, but when the acceptance of my offer becomes
bad, any further offer of mine is given in the same manner.

On Wednesday 29 January 2014 14:30 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-
y:


Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the
single most important purchase most make isn't protected while trivial
things are.

In England (and Wales I assumed) I don't think anything is binding until
exchange of contracts.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many
months. Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune
in surveys, etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the hope
it won't happen again.

Unlucky.

Or move to Scotland - I do believe their process is rather different.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal
coverage

On Wednesday 29 January 2014 15:50 Tim Streater wrote in uk.d-i-y:


And in the US of A, too, although its over 30 years since I was
buying/selling. There, you proceed to contract at the *start* of the
process, rather than at the end, so gazumping etc doesn't exist.

What are the provisions if a legal search or survey shows up something
hairy?

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal
coverage

On Wednesday 29 January 2014 15:03 mogga wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:30:10 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:



Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the
single most important purchase most make isn't protected while trivial
things are.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many
months. Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune
in surveys, etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the hope
it won't happen again.


In London?

Quite possibly - there's lots of stuff being redeveloped. Off plan could
include a full site refurbishment and repurposing, eg old warehouse or
wharfage buildings being converted to flats -
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal
coverage

In message , Tim Streater
writes
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Onetap wrote:
Contract law covers everything from buying a box of matches to building
a satellite and all depends on the word, the promises, of both parties;
that they'll deliver the specified goods/services and deliver the
specified monies.

The Hindu/ Moslem lot don't do that. They think they're being
clever
and don't anticipate that they will only damage their reputation as a
group.
I take it you've never bought a house in England in a busy market?
Any
verbal agreement between buyer and seller means f**k all.

True, but AIUI, it's the only sphere in which a verbal contract is
worthless.

Verbal agreements are binding in Scotland I believe.
--
bert

Robin wrote:
True, but AIUI, it's the only sphere in which a verbal contract is
worthless.

Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the
single most important purchase most make isn't protected while
trivial things are.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many
months. Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune
in surveys, etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the
hope it won't happen again.

The point with buying houses in England is that you don't have a
contract until you have exchanged contracts (sic). How many buyers
would really want that initial offer and acceptance to bind them so eg
they can't walk away if eg the survey shows problems or the mortgage
offer falls through?

Things are different in Scotland of course - arguably better overall but
*very* different

If I'm selling, it stays on the market until a contract and a non
refundable deposit exist. The would be buyer can take the appropriate
action.

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 15:50:08 +0000 Tim Streater wrote :
And in the US of A, too, although its over 30 years since I was
buying/selling. There, you proceed to contract at the *start* of the
process, rather than at the end, so gazumping etc doesn't exist.

Much the same here in Victoria - as I've been reminded before other
Australian states have their own systems.

At the outset the vendor/agent gives genuinely interested parties a
's32' which contains the contract, title deeds, planning and building
consents, search, body corporate info if a flat - much what would have
been the 'Sellers Pack' that was being floated when I left the UK save
no vendor-provided survey.

The contract starts by saying that it contains nothing other than the
standard terms, save any listed in the special conditions section - no
risk of some odd terms buried in the body of the contract. Most people
AIUI sign contracts without prior legal advice; on non auction sales the
purchaser has a three day cooling off period during which they can pass
the contract over to their solicitor for review.

Around 50% of houses are sold by auction - much the same as in the UK
you have to line up your finance, survey etc beforehand as if you're the
winning bidder you're committed.

Otherwise you decide you like a property, review the s32, make an offer,
generally subject to finance and building & pest inspections and sign a
contract. If the vendor accepts he countersigns and you have a contract.
You've then got 14 days (usually) to sort your finance and survey - home
inspectors are set up for a tight timescale, often next day with a
templated report being emailed to you same day.

I bought an investment house a couple of years back: looked at it and
was given the s32, arranged survey, went back with the agent a few days
later when the survey was done, surveyor said verbally that there was
nothing of concern, and vendor and I signed contract on the kitchen
table, deal done. So much better than the E&W (nearly said UK!) system.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

On 29/01/14 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:

I take it you've never bought a house in England in a busy market? Any
verbal agreement between buyer and seller means f**k all.

True, but AIUI, it's the only sphere in which a verbal contract is
worthless.

Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the single
most important purchase most make isn't protected while trivial things are.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many months.
Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune in surveys,
etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the hope it won't happen
again.


There is no contract until its signed. Which given that it is "the
single most important purchase most make" is as it should be. Would you
really want to commit yourself before getting a survey and checking all
the paperwork.

[I had 5 good offers on flat in September and thought it sold, buyer
pulled out in December, less than a week later another 5 even better
offers. But now second sale has fallen through. Meanwhile the offer I
made on a property in August had to be withdrawn once the surveyor and a
structural engineer had delived a verdict. ]


--
djc

On 29/01/14 17:32, Tim Watts wrote:
On Wednesday 29 January 2014 14:30 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-
y:


Are you certain about that? If so, it seems very strange that the
single most important purchase most make isn't protected while trivial
things are.

In England (and Wales I assumed) I don't think anything is binding until
exchange of contracts.

I've got a mate who's been 'gazumped' three times in about as many
months. Once by a cash buyer for a lower sum. Has cost him a fortune
in surveys, etc. He's now attempting to buy new 'off plan' in the hope
it won't happen again.

Unlucky.

Or move to Scotland - I do believe their process is rather different.

Not really that different it seems:
http://www.mov8realestate.com/blog/item/78-gauzumping-in-scotland-what-you-need-to-know.html


--
djc

whisky-dave wrote:


His best customers tend to be gay couples of either sex.

Yes it's a strange thing, but that's my experience. I can't ever
remember having hassle from homosexuals, either couples or singles.

Could it be that they've had more worthwhile and important battles in
their lives than crossing swords pointlessly with tradesmen?

Bill

In article ,
djc wrote:
There is no contract until its signed. Which given that it is "the
single most important purchase most make" is as it should be. Would you
really want to commit yourself before getting a survey and checking all
the paperwork.

Not disputing that. So where does 'my word is my bond' cop out? 5 quid?
500 quid? 5000 quid? 50,000 quid?

--
*A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/01/14 10:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
djc wrote:
There is no contract until its signed. Which given that it is "the
single most important purchase most make" is as it should be. Would you
really want to commit yourself before getting a survey and checking all
the paperwork.

Not disputing that. So where does 'my word is my bond' cop out? 5 quid?
500 quid? 5000 quid? 50,000 quid?

That entirely depends on the person.

I've seen it as low as a fiver, and some I know have refused £5m to welsh.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 30/01/14 11:21, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
djc wrote:
There is no contract until its signed. Which given that it is "the
single most important purchase most make" is as it should be. Would
you really want to commit yourself before getting a survey and
checking all the paperwork.

Not disputing that. So where does 'my word is my bond' cop out? 5 quid?
500 quid? 5000 quid? 50,000 quid?

It shouldn't cop out at any level. The difference is that, AIUI, a
spoken contract is enforceable at law in all cases *except* those
concerning property.

theoretically yes, but try actually enforcing a contract whose very
existence is denied and for which no written evidence exists.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:09:51 PM UTC, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 04:26:16 -0800, Onetap wrote:



I think it's something to do with the historical sanctity of "the word"

amongst the Judaeo/Christian cultures;

"In the beginning was the word...", "My word is my bond" etc...

...

The Hindu/ Moslem lot don't do that.



Lemme guess, you don't remember much about RE from school?

More than any respectable man would admit to.

Here's a clue: "The Moslem lot" are also part of "Judeo-Christian

culture".

I disagree, they may revere Jesus and the Old Testament prophets but, SFAIK don't make any study of the Old Testament.
They don't put the same value on their word, especially where kufrs are involved, i.e., the British lot.
Retention payments on Middle East contracts were never paid.
Maybe you can suggest an alternative explanation for the different attitudes reported above.

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:00:23 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,


I take it you've never bought a house in England in a busy market? Any

verbal agreement between buyer and seller means f**k all.

Yes.
But if TMH were to insist on exchanging written contracts before starting work, I think his income might decrease.

He has to rely on verbal agreements and both parties depend on the other keeping to their word.