Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Noise margins?

BRAS?

???
--
Tim Lamb

On 29/12/13 12:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Noise margins?

BRAS?

???
remind me tomorrow.

I can probably do that - HTML format?


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 29/12/13 12:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Noise margins?

BRAS?

???
remind me tomorrow.

I can probably do that - HTML format?

Should be OK. Turnpike offers both.

Thanks

--
Tim Lamb

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:03:49 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Accessing router web pages?

Devices need to be configured, told certain fundamental information
that is unique to where they are being used. Things like login user
names and passwords etc. The simple way to do this is for the device
to have a few configuration web pages that are normally accessed by
entering the devices LAN IP address into a web browser.

Noise margins?

Ratio between the wanted signal and (unwanted/interfering) noise on a
circuit. If the margin is high a circuit will be stable but might not
be utilising it as well as it might and may be slower as a result. If
the margin is low then it doesn't take much increase in noise (or
reduction in signal) to stop the circuit working(*). The resources of
the circuit are being better utilised so it's likely to be faster but
less stable.

BRAS?

I'll have to google ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadba..._Access_Server

In the context I used it last night it is the maximum speed that the
carrier (BT, Virgin Media etc) tells your ISP they can send data to
you over their infrastructure. There is no buffering so if you shove
data in faster than it can get out at the far end data will get lost
and have to be resent, this slows things down partly because of
having to send things more than once and partly because of having to
wait for things to timeout before deciding that a particular packet
has been lost.

(*) There is a natural day/night variation in the noise margin as
ADSL uses frequencies that cover the Medium Wave broadcast band. At
night propagation of these broadcast signals increases dramatically
and thus the amount of interference they cause to the ADSL signal.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , Huge
writes
On 2013-12-29, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:03:49 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

[Stuff]

This looks interesting;

https://www.btwholesale.com/shared/d...band/IPStream/
dsl_max_myths_legends_issue1.pdf

Yes. I read it carefully and understood about 50%:-(

The glossary is handy!



--
Tim Lamb

On 29/12/2013 12:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Noise margins?

BRAS?

???

Kitz is a good place to start -

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/index.htm

Some very helpful people on the forum too.

--
198kHz

On 29/12/2013 12:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Most (probably all) routers have an internal web server, that allows you
to access the routers own configuration interface. That will work even
when the router has no connection to the outside world.

If you type the routers IP address into your browser's address bar you
will normally get there. (open a command prompt, type IPCONFIG and look
for the default gateway address on the Ethernet adaptor to find out the
address)

Noise margins?

ADSL performance is dictated by to noise ratios. The routers can usually
report the characteristics of the lines performance.

BRAS?

Usually used in the context of a "BRAS profile"... a statistic generated
and kept by the BT equipment at the other end of your ADSL link that
records how its performing (speed of synchronisation and the number of
dropouts etc). One of the things it sets is how fast information is fed
into the ADSL segment of the connection. This is normally set a little
lower than the physical connection speed. You can sometimes get problems
where after a line fault is cleared, you find the BRAS profile has been
lowered significantly to cope with the fault, and then takes some time
to allow you to get full speed back again.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 29/12/2013 12:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Most (probably all) routers have an internal web server, that allows
you to access the routers own configuration interface. That will work
even when the router has no connection to the outside world.

If you type the routers IP address into your browser's address bar you
will normally get there. (open a command prompt, type IPCONFIG and look
for the default gateway address on the Ethernet adaptor to find out the
address)

The address is also displayed under my LAN settings.

Putting the address into a browser gives *server not found* I have tried
Firefox and Explorer with/without Windows Firewall enabled.

Noise margins?

ADSL performance is dictated by to noise ratios. The routers can
usually report the characteristics of the lines performance.

BRAS?

Usually used in the context of a "BRAS profile"... a statistic
generated and kept by the BT equipment at the other end of your ADSL
link that records how its performing (speed of synchronisation and the
number of dropouts etc). One of the things it sets is how fast
information is fed into the ADSL segment of the connection. This is
normally set a little lower than the physical connection speed. You can
sometimes get problems where after a line fault is cleared, you find
the BRAS profile has been lowered significantly to cope with the fault,
and then takes some time to allow you to get full speed back again.

OK.

Following the last two outages, it appears the time scale is much less
than the 10 days mentioned in the literature. Also noted by Dave?

My current speed seems to have stabilised in around 24 hours. A forced
retrain (router off/on) does not bring further improvement.

The current speed is adequate for my needs but I will pursue the
suggested home phone wiring alterations ASAP.

I would like to monitor noise margins/levels and see if they are related
to weather conditions. Ultimately a subsonic hollow point through the
offending cable might force a rewi-)

--
Tim Lamb

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:08:54 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

If you type the routers IP address into your browser's address bar
you
will normally get there. (open a command prompt, type IPCONFIG and
look
for the default gateway address on the Ethernet adaptor to find
out the
address)

The address is also displayed under my LAN settings.

Putting the address into a browser gives *server not found* I have tried
Firefox and Explorer with/without Windows Firewall enabled.

Not familiar enough with windows and where you are looking but that
might be the address of the machine you are using rather than the
router and your machine is not likely to be running a web server.
B-) I'd expect an IP address of 192.168.0.1 or possibly 192.168.1.1.
The defualt for most routers is most likely to be 192.168, the next
number could be any thing up to 255 but normally at the low end, the
last number is probably going to be 1.

Following the last two outages, it appears the time scale is much less
than the 10 days mentioned in the literature. Also noted by Dave?

The 10 days is the training period for a new install (or it can be
initiated if things have got confused and stuck). This 10 day
training period is to set a couple of variables used by BT.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm

The line is always under DLM which monitors the sync speed and
ensures that the BRAS rate is lower. I generally find that a passing
thunder storm(*) or noise fault on the line will be noticed pretty
quickly, minutes/hours, once the storm has passed/fault sorted it may
take some what longer to recover. If the difference between sync rate
and BRAS is large it may only be a few hours, smaller may take up to
three days.

I would like to monitor noise margins/levels and see if they are related
to weather conditions. Ultimately a subsonic hollow point through the
offending cable might force a rewi-)

But you might damage a bit that is OK... You really need a fault that
is hard to trace and have a BT Openreach person attach TDR to the
line to show where there are impedance mismatches. Hopefully they
would then sort them all out.

(*) If I notice a thunderstorm approaching I turn the ADSL modem off
so that the noise doesn't affect the sync rate (it can't, there is no
sync) and thus the BRAS rate doesn't get clobbered.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:08:54 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

If you type the routers IP address into your browser's address bar
you
will normally get there. (open a command prompt, type IPCONFIG and
look
for the default gateway address on the Ethernet adaptor to find
out the
address)

The address is also displayed under my LAN settings.

Putting the address into a browser gives *server not found* I have tried
Firefox and Explorer with/without Windows Firewall enabled.

Not familiar enough with windows and where you are looking but that
might be the address of the machine you are using rather than the
router and your machine is not likely to be running a web server.
B-) I'd expect an IP address of 192.168.0.1 or possibly 192.168.1.1.
The defualt for most routers is most likely to be 192.168, the next
number could be any thing up to 255 but normally at the low end, the
last number is probably going to be 1.

I found IP 192.168.254.5

Subnet mask 255.255.255.0

default gateway 192.168.254.254

Following the last two outages, it appears the time scale is much less
than the 10 days mentioned in the literature. Also noted by Dave?

The 10 days is the training period for a new install (or it can be
initiated if things have got confused and stuck). This 10 day
training period is to set a couple of variables used by BT.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm

Yes. I looked in there. The router info seems to confirm the address
found. I'll avoid their forum for now.

The line is always under DLM which monitors the sync speed and
ensures that the BRAS rate is lower. I generally find that a passing
thunder storm(*) or noise fault on the line will be noticed pretty
quickly, minutes/hours, once the storm has passed/fault sorted it may
take some what longer to recover. If the difference between sync rate
and BRAS is large it may only be a few hours, smaller may take up to
three days.

I would like to monitor noise margins/levels and see if they are related
to weather conditions. Ultimately a subsonic hollow point through the
offending cable might force a rewi-)

But you might damage a bit that is OK... You really need a fault that
is hard to trace and have a BT Openreach person attach TDR to the
line to show where there are impedance mismatches. Hopefully they
would then sort them all out.

Said in jest although I am confident I could produce a clean break in
the suspect stretch:-) This would also disconnect two friendly
neighbours.

(*) If I notice a thunderstorm approaching I turn the ADSL modem off
so that the noise doesn't affect the sync rate (it can't, there is no
sync) and thus the BRAS rate doesn't get clobbered.

It seems a long while since we have had a significant thunderstorm.


--
Tim Lamb

In message , Tim Streater
writes

Not familiar enough with windows and where you are looking but that
might be the address of the machine you are using rather than the
router and your machine is not likely to be running a web server.
B-) I'd expect an IP address of 192.168.0.1 or possibly 192.168.1.1.
The defualt for most routers is most likely to be 192.168, the next
number could be any thing up to 255 but normally at the low end, the
last number is probably going to be 1.
I found IP 192.168.254.5
Subnet mask 255.255.255.0
default gateway 192.168.254.254

Try 192.168.254.1 for the router, then.

Still server not found.


--
Tim Lamb

On 30/12/2013 13:30, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message o.uk,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:08:54 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

If you type the routers IP address into your browser's address bar
you
will normally get there. (open a command prompt, type IPCONFIG and
look
for the default gateway address on the Ethernet adaptor to find
out the
address)

The address is also displayed under my LAN settings.

Putting the address into a browser gives *server not found* I have
tried
Firefox and Explorer with/without Windows Firewall enabled.

Not familiar enough with windows and where you are looking but that
might be the address of the machine you are using rather than the
router and your machine is not likely to be running a web server.
B-) I'd expect an IP address of 192.168.0.1 or possibly 192.168.1.1.
The defualt for most routers is most likely to be 192.168, the next
number could be any thing up to 255 but normally at the low end, the
last number is probably going to be 1.

I found IP 192.168.254.5

Subnet mask 255.255.255.0

default gateway 192.168.254.254

Try 192.168.254.1 for the router, then.

The router may be configured to use a different port from normal. So try:

192.168.254.254:8080

Failing that, what make / model of router is it?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:03:49 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Noise margins?

BRAS?

Which router do you have?


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:03:49 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Noise margins?

BRAS?

Which router do you have?

Speedtouch ST585 v6



--
Tim Lamb

On 30/12/2013 12:51, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:03:49 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Noise margins?

BRAS?

Which router do you have?

Speedtouch ST585 v6


Those default to 192.168.1.254 normally...

Page 7

http://other.static.clix.pt/cliente2..._UserGuide.pdf




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Huge
writes
On 2013-12-29, Tim Lamb wrote:
Recent advice in the *mixed blessing* thread has reminded me how little
I understand about the workings of my router.

The discussion on my recent telephone line outage and the subsequent
re-training of the connection have brought out words and phrases I
simply do not understand. I know Google will find all but I would much
prefer something pitched at the engineer/farmer level:-)

Accessing router web pages?

Noise margins?

BRAS?

http://www.howstuffworks.com/search.php?terms=router

Broadly helpful and gave me an understanding of their function and
purpose but I didn't spot answers to the above.


--
Tim Lamb