Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

Instructions claimed it was;

Anti Pick.

(didn't try).

Anti Bump.

(didn't try).

Anti Drill.

It certainly was.

Anti Snap

It certainly was.

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

Instructions claimed it was;

Anti Pick.

(didn't try).

Anti Bump.

(didn't try).

Anti Drill.

It certainly was.

Anti Snap

It certainly was.

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!



Amazed me recently how easy to 'snap' a cheap (albeit branded) lock.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.



It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!


Indeed! How did you stop the sparks damaging the door?

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

[snippage]

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either side?

On 19/11/2013 00:54, GB wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.



It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!


Indeed! How did you stop the sparks damaging the door?


Angle grinder sparks aren't very hot, not enough thermal mass or summit.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 19/11/2013 06:21, Andy Burns wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

[snippage]

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either side?


Open. Once I'd removed the handles there was about an inch protruding
from the inside. Cut that horizontally, then halfway vertically, then
snapped it.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 19/11/2013 00:43, RJH wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

Instructions claimed it was;

Anti Pick.

(didn't try).

Anti Bump.

(didn't try).

Anti Drill.

It certainly was.

Anti Snap

It certainly was.

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!



Amazed me recently how easy to 'snap' a cheap (albeit branded) lock.

That was my first line of attack, but this bugger wouldn't snap at all.
Once I'd removed a lot of it - it did.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 19/11/2013 08:19, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 19/11/2013 00:54, GB wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.



It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!


Indeed! How did you stop the sparks damaging the door?


Angle grinder sparks aren't very hot, not enough thermal mass or summit.


I had a window in one of my factories that was peppered with melted-in
debris from an angle grinder, where a previous owner had removed a
nearby steel bracket from a girder.

Colin Bignell

On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Anti Snap

It certainly was.


Do you mean you couldn't snap it, or you did but it stayed locked so you
still couldn't open the door to get at the securing bolt? I thought
anti-snap meant the latter, but you imply the former.

--
Reentrant

In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 19/11/2013 00:54, GB wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.



It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!


Indeed! How did you stop the sparks damaging the door?


Angle grinder sparks aren't very hot, not enough thermal mass or summit.

Huh!

Try it when you are wearing a nylon boiler suit.

--
Tim Lamb

On 19/11/2013 08:19, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 19/11/2013 00:54, GB wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.



It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!


Indeed! How did you stop the sparks damaging the door?


Angle grinder sparks aren't very hot, not enough thermal mass or summit.



You'd be surprised, they'll happily embed themselves in automotive glass.

On 19/11/2013 08:21, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 19/11/2013 06:21, Andy Burns wrote:

was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either side?


Open. Once I'd removed the handles there was about an inch protruding
from the inside. Cut that horizontally, then halfway vertically, then
snapped it.


Am I missing something? Surely, with the door open, and handles removed,
and with access to the faceplate, you could just undo its retaining
screw and withdraw it?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article , Roger Mills
writes
On 19/11/2013 08:21, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 19/11/2013 06:21, Andy Burns wrote:

was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either side?


Open. Once I'd removed the handles there was about an inch protruding
from the inside. Cut that horizontally, then halfway vertically, then
snapped it.


Am I missing something? Surely, with the door open, and handles removed,
and with access to the faceplate, you could just undo its retaining
screw and withdraw it?

No, the cam is at an offset position when the key is removed so the
cylinder cannot be removed easily.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 8:19:16 AM UTC, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Angle grinder sparks aren't very hot, not enough thermal mass or summit.

If only. My Dad's lounge window was permanently scarred with hundreds of pits by hot sparks from an angle grinder being used on a car several metres in front of it.

On 19/11/2013 14:45 Mathew Newton wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 8:19:16 AM UTC, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Angle grinder sparks aren't very hot, not enough thermal mass or summit.

If only. My Dad's lounge window was permanently scarred with hundreds of pits by hot sparks from an angle grinder being used on a car several metres in front of it.

+1 (though not hundreds of pits) when an angle grinder was used (not by
me!) to cut paving slabs on the garden 3M in front of patio doors.

--
F

Yes indeed, you cannot make your own gaol cell these days..
grin.
Lots of locks being serious for a moment seem to have the major parts made
of some lightweight hard , but very brittle metal. I found a padlock like
this quite recently, Where the hole was for the pin that locked it, the
sides of the remaining lockable part war so thin, I snapped them off merely
using an old screwdriver.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

Instructions claimed it was;

Anti Pick.

(didn't try).

Anti Bump.

(didn't try).

Anti Drill.

It certainly was.

Anti Snap

It certainly was.

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!



Amazed me recently how easy to 'snap' a cheap (albeit branded) lock.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 19/11/2013 10:34, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 19/11/2013 08:19, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 19/11/2013 00:54, GB wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.



It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

Another victory for the groups favourite power tool!


Indeed! How did you stop the sparks damaging the door?


Angle grinder sparks aren't very hot, not enough thermal mass or summit.



You'd be surprised, they'll happily embed themselves in automotive glass.


Not a mark on the uPVC door at all.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 19/11/2013 10:13, Reentrant wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Anti Snap

It certainly was.


Do you mean you couldn't snap it, or you did but it stayed locked so you
still couldn't open the door to get at the securing bolt? I thought
anti-snap meant the latter, but you imply the former.

I couldn't snap it, until it had a discussion with Mr Angle Grinder.
Not sure what 'Anti Snap' is supposed to mean TBH.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 19/11/2013 06:21, Andy Burns wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

[snippage]

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either side?


Open. Once I'd removed the handles there was about an inch protruding
from the inside.

The clue here is "on the inside"

The inside access doesn't need protection from physical destructive attack,
does it?

In fact the one that I had to have replaced (be because dozey cow who moved
out didn't give me all her keys back) didn't have any protection from remove
from the inside at all, as it had a thumb wheel

(and the locksmith who replaced it - because none of the local handymen knew
what the flip to do with it, said that they are pickable)

tim

In article , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 19/11/2013 10:13, Reentrant wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Anti Snap

It certainly was.


Do you mean you couldn't snap it, or you did but it stayed locked so you
still couldn't open the door to get at the securing bolt? I thought
anti-snap meant the latter, but you imply the former.

I couldn't snap it, until it had a discussion with Mr Angle Grinder.
Not sure what 'Anti Snap' is supposed to mean TBH.

In my view it means a cylinder with a reinforced centre section that
resists the snapping forces in that reduced profile section in the
middle but the term seems to have been hijacked by manufacturers that
think breaking off the outer section of a cylinder easily is a security
enhancement. Weakening the design with a few cuts is of course much
easier than adding and securely fixing a strong core to the outer
cylinder elements, the latter are much more expensive.

Think you had a lucky break on the angle grinder collateral damage, 1
'cos you were just cutting brass and 2 'cos it was striking the door at
an oblique angle. I'd be very wary of using an angle grinder near
anything that is in the slightest bit fragile (glass, plastic, carpet,
clothing) unless it was well masked, particularly if I was cutting
anything with ferrous content. With ferrous grindings you also have the
risk of any waste rusting later in contact with water for that
distinctive red/brown stain, v messy on tarmac, concrete or carpet.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 19/11/2013 18:46, tim...... wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 19/11/2013 06:21, Andy Burns wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

[snippage]

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either side?


Open. Once I'd removed the handles there was about an inch protruding
from the inside.

The clue here is "on the inside"

The inside access doesn't need protection from physical destructive
attack, does it?

In fact the one that I had to have replaced (be because dozey cow who
moved out didn't give me all her keys back) didn't have any protection
from remove from the inside at all, as it had a thumb wheel

- because none of the local handymen
knew what the flip to do with it,

Sir!, Sir! I would! :-)

(and the locksmith who replaced it said that they are pickable)

I thnk it depends on what you pay. £10 pickable, £40 not.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 19/11/2013 18:46, tim...... wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 19/11/2013 06:21, Andy Burns wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the
original instructions, but no keys.

[snippage]

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either
side?


Open. Once I'd removed the handles there was about an inch protruding
from the inside.

The clue here is "on the inside"

The inside access doesn't need protection from physical destructive
attack, does it?

In fact the one that I had to have replaced (be because dozey cow who
moved out didn't give me all her keys back) didn't have any protection
from remove from the inside at all, as it had a thumb wheel

- because none of the local handymen
knew what the flip to do with it,

Sir!, Sir! I would! :-)

but you're booked up for months in advance (apparently)


(and the locksmith who replaced it said that they are pickable)

I thnk it depends on what you pay. £10 pickable, £40 not.

you don't get a high security lock for 10 quid. (I was quoted 50 something)

in fact, you don't get a security lock key for 10 quid (and that's on top of
the 50 quid)

tim

In article , tim......
wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 19/11/2013 18:46, tim...... wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 19/11/2013 06:21, Andy Burns wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had
the original instructions, but no keys.

[snippage]

It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either
side?


Open. Once I'd removed the handles there was about an inch
protruding from the inside.

The clue here is "on the inside"

The inside access doesn't need protection from physical destructive
attack, does it?

In fact the one that I had to have replaced (be because dozey cow who
moved out didn't give me all her keys back) didn't have any protection
from remove from the inside at all, as it had a thumb wheel

- because none of the local handymen knew what the flip to do with it,

Sir!, Sir! I would! :-)

but you're booked up for months in advance (apparently)


(and the locksmith who replaced it said that they are pickable)

I thnk it depends on what you pay. £10 pickable, £40 not.

you don't get a high security lock for 10 quid. (I was quoted 50
something)

in fact, you don't get a security lock key for 10 quid (and that's on top
of the 50 quid)

tim

I was in my local locksmith yeaterday. Apparently a replacement lock for my
front door is £169! It was probably affordable when I bought it 25 years
ago.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 19/11/2013 15:05, F wrote:
On 19/11/2013 14:45 Mathew Newton wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 8:19:16 AM UTC, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Angle grinder sparks aren't very hot, not enough thermal mass or
summit.

If only. My Dad's lounge window was permanently scarred with hundreds
of pits by hot sparks from an angle grinder being used on a car
several metres in front of it.

+1 (though not hundreds of pits) when an angle grinder was used (not by
me!) to cut paving slabs on the garden 3M in front of patio doors.

Not managed to get anything embedded in my watch glass yet, depite
regularly forgetting to take it off when I'm working - the sapphire
glass and ceramic links in the band seem to be almost anything proof.

SteveW

On 19/11/2013 18:54, fred wrote:
In article , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 19/11/2013 10:13, Reentrant wrote:
On 18/11/2013 22:38, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Anti Snap

It certainly was.


Do you mean you couldn't snap it, or you did but it stayed locked so you
still couldn't open the door to get at the securing bolt? I thought
anti-snap meant the latter, but you imply the former.

I couldn't snap it, until it had a discussion with Mr Angle Grinder.
Not sure what 'Anti Snap' is supposed to mean TBH.

In my view it means a cylinder with a reinforced centre section that
resists the snapping forces in that reduced profile section in the
middle but the term seems to have been hijacked by manufacturers that
think breaking off the outer section of a cylinder easily is a security
enhancement. Weakening the design with a few cuts is of course much
easier than adding and securely fixing a strong core to the outer
cylinder elements, the latter are much more expensive.

Think you had a lucky break on the angle grinder collateral damage, 1
'cos you were just cutting brass and 2 'cos it was striking the door at
an oblique angle. I'd be very wary of using an angle grinder near
anything that is in the slightest bit fragile (glass, plastic, carpet,
clothing) unless it was well masked, particularly if I was cutting
anything with ferrous content. With ferrous grindings you also have the
risk of any waste rusting later in contact with water for that
distinctive red/brown stain, v messy on tarmac, concrete or carpet.

I agree. I have found to my cost a few times that glass and ceramic
glazes get pitted by red hot iron particles.

I thoroughly recommend that glass is covered up or shielded when
grinding close by.

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:54:59 PM UTC, fred wrote:
I'd be very wary of using an angle grinder near
anything that is in the slightest bit fragile (glass, plastic, carpet,
clothing)

The metallurgist in me gets a bit upset about refering to carpet or
clothing as "fragile". To me, "fragile" means that it shatters if
you hit it with a hammer. (So glass and some plastics fit.)

I think you mean "delicate".

Sorry. Pedantry over.

In article ,
Martin Bonner writes
On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:54:59 PM UTC, fred wrote:
I'd be very wary of using an angle grinder near
anything that is in the slightest bit fragile (glass, plastic, carpet,
clothing)

The metallurgist in me gets a bit upset about refering to carpet or
clothing as "fragile". To me, "fragile" means that it shatters if
you hit it with a hammer. (So glass and some plastics fit.)

I think you mean "delicate".

Hmmn, not quite there yet I think . . .


Sorry. Pedantry over.

If you were truly sorry, you'd stop it :-)
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:00:41 PM UTC, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 19/11/2013 18:46, tim...... wrote:



"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message

...

On 19/11/2013 06:21, Andy Burns wrote:

The Medway Handyman wrote:



Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today, customer had the

original instructions, but no keys.



[snippage]



It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)



was the door shut? was the lock too long i.e. protruding on either side?





Open. Once I'd removed the handles there was about an inch protruding

from the inside.



The clue here is "on the inside"



The inside access doesn't need protection from physical destructive

attack, does it?



In fact the one that I had to have replaced (be because dozey cow who

moved out didn't give me all her keys back) didn't have any protection

from remove from the inside at all, as it had a thumb wheel



- because none of the local handymen

knew what the flip to do with it,



Sir!, Sir! I would! :-)



(and the locksmith who replaced it said that they are pickable)



I thnk it depends on what you pay. £10 pickable, £40 not.


More you spend longer it takes, even ASSA`s if you`ve got the skillz..

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...lock%20picking

delete picking out on search term and get videos on drilling and snapping.






--

Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today
Instructions claimed it was;
Anti Snap
It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

This weekend's task is to change a door+window combo to a patio door,
only problem being I haven't been able to find the keys for the new door
for a fortnight!

I removed an identical euro cylinder from one of the other doors I've
recently fitted and confirmed it had no anti-drill pins, no sacrificial
snap points, obviously I could get access to both sides of the door, so
removed the handles to avoid any damage to them, one pair of mole grips,
10 seconds of gentle persuasion and a poke with a screwdriver and that
was that ...

To anyone that's got el-cheapo euro locks fitted, don't fool yourself
that they provide *any* real security, a ne'er do well wouldn't give a
toss about damaging the handles to get access to a greater length of the
lock.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:31:59 -0800 (PST), Adam Aglionby wrote:

I thnk it depends on what you pay. £10 pickable, £40 not.

More you spend longer it takes, even ASSA`s if you`ve got the skillz..

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...lock%20picking

delete picking out on search term and get videos on drilling and snapping.

There were 2 noticeable aspects on that video: although kitemarked, the lock
didn't have the number on the front; he'd turned the little lever but the
lock itself stayed in the same position. I don't know if the lock is easily
undone from that stage.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In article , Martin Bonner wrote:
On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:54:59 PM UTC, fred wrote:
I'd be very wary of using an angle grinder near
anything that is in the slightest bit fragile (glass, plastic, carpet,
clothing)

The metallurgist in me gets a bit upset about refering to carpet or
clothing as "fragile". To me, "fragile" means that it shatters if
you hit it with a hammer. (So glass and some plastics fit.)

I would have thought "brittle" or "frangible" was better for that.

In message , Andy
Burns writes
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Asked to remove a high security euro cylinder today
Instructions claimed it was;
Anti Snap
It wasn't Anti Angle Grinder though :-)

This weekend's task is to change a door+window combo to a patio door,
only problem being I haven't been able to find the keys for the new
door for a fortnight!

I removed an identical euro cylinder from one of the other doors I've
recently fitted and confirmed it had no anti-drill pins, no sacrificial
snap points, obviously I could get access to both sides of the door, so
removed the handles to avoid any damage to them, one pair of mole
grips, 10 seconds of gentle persuasion and a poke with a screwdriver
and that was that ...

To anyone that's got el-cheapo euro locks fitted, don't fool yourself
that they provide *any* real security, a ne'er do well wouldn't give a
toss about damaging the handles to get access to a greater length of
the lock.


I was in a Screwfix a few weeks ago and a girl came in carrying a very
forlorn looking door handle and asking about a new one and eurolock. The
advice she was given by them was what you would expect.

I did get the impression that they weren't too bothered when I directed
her to a proper locksmiths, that I know well, and told her about
sacrificial snapping points and strong chamfered furniture etc.

It didn't help that hubby had been working away for sometime and was due
back that day, she wasn't in the best frame of mind. The likely hood of
the toerags being caught was probably nil.

Maybe longer prison sentences for those that commit the crimes and even
longer ones for those that fit poor locks to new homes would help?

--
Bill

Bill wrote:

Maybe longer prison sentences for those that commit the crimes and even
longer ones for those that fit poor locks to new homes would help?

When I asked if I could order the doors with high security cylinders,
they said "no", odd given they offer other upgrades like shootbolts to
bump-up their profit.

Still at about a fiver each I suppose it's not much wasted to take the
factory fitted jobs, I plan to replace them all with keyed-alike or
master-keyed, anti-bump/snap/pick/drill/whatever, adding the garage door
and shed into the same scheme to cut down the gaoler's bunch of keys.

Anyone got any favourite cylinder manufacturer?