Adrian wrote:

No, but regarding people of a different ethnicity or background as
inherently inferior - as several posters have stated they do - definitely
does.

That's a very inflexible rule you have there. Since different races have
different physical characteristics there are bound to be areas in which
some are better than others. For instance, blacks seem to be better
athletes than whites or Asians. People originating in malarial areas are
far more likely to have sickle-cell anaemia. Kawasaki disease is almost
exclusive to East Asians.
Whether there are any significant difference between the races when it
come to intelligence we'll never know, because research has been
severely limited by PC censorship. However, no one can dispute that
Chinese kids seem to be top of the class more often than not in UK
schools.

The trouble is, Adrian, the facts don't fit your dogmatic views.

Bill

On 13/11/2013 01:30, Bill Wright wrote:
Adrian wrote:

No, but regarding people of a different ethnicity or background as
inherently inferior - as several posters have stated they do -
definitely does.

That's a very inflexible rule you have there. Since different races have
different physical characteristics there are bound to be areas in which
some are better than others. For instance, blacks seem to be better
athletes than whites or Asians. People originating in malarial areas are
far more likely to have sickle-cell anaemia. Kawasaki disease is almost
exclusive to East Asians.

Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really
believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all
"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes that
if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance for
the Royal Ballet.

Whether there are any significant difference between the races when it
come to intelligence we'll never know, because research has been
severely limited by PC censorship. However, no one can dispute that
Chinese kids seem to be top of the class more often than not in UK schools.

Culture obviously plays its hand here...

Socio biologists like J.Philippe Rushton have puported to identify
differences in intelligence and other traits between races / continents.
Needless to say any scientific commentary on his findings gets swamped
in political commentary.

The trouble is, Adrian, the facts don't fit your dogmatic views.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really
believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all
"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes that
if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance for
the Royal Ballet.

It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with the
idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:45:40 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really
believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all
"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes
that if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could
dance for the Royal Ballet.

It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with
the idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

*ding*

On Thursday, 14 November 2013 09:45:40 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

John Rumm wrote:

Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really

believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all

"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes that

if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance for

the Royal Ballet.



It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with the

idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

It's a nice idea but are all people equal ?

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2013 09:45:40 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

John Rumm wrote:

Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't
really

believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all

"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes
that

if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance
for

the Royal Ballet.



It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with
the

idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

It's a nice idea but are all people equal ?

Equal in what way? Height? Weight? Foot size? Obviously not.

--
*Fax is stronger than fiction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/11/2013 09:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really
believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all
"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes that
if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance for
the Royal Ballet.

It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with the
idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

Equal rights and opportunity being a very different thing to claiming
that all people are the same.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/11/13 16:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/11/2013 09:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really
believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all
"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes that
if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance for
the Royal Ballet.

It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with
the
idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

Equal rights and opportunity being a very different thing to claiming
that all people are the same.


without people being the same they de facto don't have any chance
whatsoever of equal opportunities.

And since all the rights some people have is to open their eyes, blink
once and die horribly from natural causes, equalling everyone to their
'rights' would not be wildly popular.

In the end 'equal rights and equal opportunities' is juts empty rhetoric.

How do you, for example, propose to give me an 'equal right and equal
opportunity' to become president of the Black Lawyers' Society?


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 16:31:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

In the end 'equal rights and equal opportunities' is juts empty
rhetoric.

How do you, for example, propose to give me an 'equal right and equal
opportunity' to become president of the Black Lawyers' Society?

Are you a lawyer? Because, if not, it's going to be a bit of a non-
starter.

But, apart from that, if there were no racial discrimination within the
legal industry, there would be absolutely no need for the Black Lawyer's
Society. Nor for the Women Lawyer's Division. Nor for the Lawyers With
Disabilities Division. Or for similar in other industries.

Us able-bodied white men just have to admit that we have had an unfair
advantage for far too long, and stop whining when those who aren't so
fortunate try to level the playing field a bit.

On 14/11/2013 16:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/11/13 16:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/11/2013 09:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really
believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all
"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes
that
if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance for
the Royal Ballet.

It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with
the
idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

Equal rights and opportunity being a very different thing to claiming
that all people are the same.


without people being the same they de facto don't have any chance
whatsoever of equal opportunities.

And since all the rights some people have is to open their eyes, blink
once and die horribly from natural causes, equalling everyone to their
'rights' would not be wildly popular.

In the end 'equal rights and equal opportunities' is juts empty rhetoric.

How do you, for example, propose to give me an 'equal right and equal
opportunity' to become president of the Black Lawyers' Society?

boot polish ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/11/2013 17:05, Adrian wrote:

Us able-bodied white men just have to admit that we have had an unfair
advantage for far too long, and stop whining when those who aren't so
fortunate try to level the playing field a bit.

Depends on how to define "level the playing field".

If you mean that someone non white/male etc should be judged on the same
scale as the white male applicant, then I am in full agreement with that.

However the moment you slip into US style "affirmative action" and
positively discriminate in favour of the less able/suited candidate
simply because of their race etc, you have a big problem with ongoing
negative effects.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 14/11/2013 09:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really
believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all
"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes
that if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could
dance for the Royal Ballet.

It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with
the idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

Equal rights and opportunity being a very different thing to claiming
that all people are the same.

That is true - but not how many see it. Even although it's obvious no two
people are equal in many many ways. So saying they are never has made
sense.

--
*WHY IS THERE AN EXPIRATION DATE ON SOUR CREAM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:15:22 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Us able-bodied white men just have to admit that we have had an unfair
advantage for far too long, and stop whining when those who aren't so
fortunate try to level the playing field a bit.

Depends on how to define "level the playing field".

Well, quite.

If you mean that someone non white/male etc should be judged on the same
scale as the white male applicant, then I am in full agreement with
that.

As am I

However the moment you slip into US style "affirmative action" and
positively discriminate in favour of the less able/suited candidate
simply because of their race etc, you have a big problem with ongoing
negative effects.

Couldn't agree more. "Positive" discrimination is still discrimination.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:28:09 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

But, apart from that, if there were no racial discrimination within the
legal industry, there would be absolutely no need for the Black
Lawyer's Society. Nor for the Women Lawyer's Division. Nor for the
Lawyers With Disabilities Division. Or for similar in other industries.

So you're saying that the way to counter discrimination is by creating
more discrimination.

Here's a clue... No. No, I'm not saying that. Or even anything close to
it.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Adrian
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 16:31:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

In the end 'equal rights and equal opportunities' is juts empty
rhetoric.

How do you, for example, propose to give me an 'equal right and equal
opportunity' to become president of the Black Lawyers' Society?

Are you a lawyer? Because, if not, it's going to be a bit of a non-
starter.

But, apart from that, if there were no racial discrimination within
the legal industry, there would be absolutely no need for the Black
Lawyer's Society. Nor for the Women Lawyer's Division. Nor for the
Lawyers With Disabilities Division. Or for similar in other
industries.

So you're saying that the way to counter discrimination is by creating
more discrimination.

In an ideal world it wouldn't exist. But since it does you simply try to
level the playing field.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 13/11/2013 01:30, Bill Wright wrote:
Adrian wrote:

No, but regarding people of a different ethnicity or background as
inherently inferior - as several posters have stated they do -
definitely does.

That's a very inflexible rule you have there. Since different races have
different physical characteristics there are bound to be areas in which
some are better than others. For instance, blacks seem to be better
athletes than whites or Asians. People originating in malarial areas are
far more likely to have sickle-cell anaemia. Kawasaki disease is almost
exclusive to East Asians.

Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't really
believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all
"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes that
if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance for
the Royal Ballet.

Whether there are any significant difference between the races when it
come to intelligence we'll never know, because research has been
severely limited by PC censorship. However, no one can dispute that
Chinese kids seem to be top of the class more often than not in UK
schools.

Culture obviously plays its hand here...

Socio biologists like J.Philippe Rushton have puported to identify
differences in intelligence and other traits between races / continents.
Needless to say any scientific commentary on his findings gets swamped in
political commentary.

The trouble is, Adrian, the facts don't fit your dogmatic views.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_an...ce_controversy

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2013 09:45:40 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

John Rumm wrote:

Its part of the PC creed though to maintain (even if you don't
really

believe it) that people, both individually and in groups, are all

"equal"... over playing nurture and ignoring nature. The logic goes
that

if I were raised in the same environment a Nureyev I to could dance
for

the Royal Ballet.



It's certainly the interpretation put on it by those who disagree with
the

idea that all should have equal rights and opportunities.

It's a nice idea but are all people equal ?

Equal in what way? Height? Weight? Foot size? Obviously not.

None of us is equal.

On 14/11/13 17:32, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:28:09 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

But, apart from that, if there were no racial discrimination within the
legal industry, there would be absolutely no need for the Black
Lawyer's Society. Nor for the Women Lawyer's Division. Nor for the
Lawyers With Disabilities Division. Or for similar in other industries.

So you're saying that the way to counter discrimination is by creating
more discrimination.

Here's a clue... No. No, I'm not saying that. Or even anything close to
it.

you are, you are just a denier that's all.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 16:31:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

In the end 'equal rights and equal opportunities' is juts empty
rhetoric.

How do you, for example, propose to give me an 'equal right and equal
opportunity' to become president of the Black Lawyers' Society?

Are you a lawyer? Because, if not, it's going to be a bit of a non-
starter.

But, apart from that, if there were no racial discrimination within the
legal industry, there would be absolutely no need for the Black Lawyer's
Society. Nor for the Women Lawyer's Division. Nor for the Lawyers With
Disabilities Division. Or for similar in other industries.

Us able-bodied white men just have to admit that we have had an unfair
advantage for far too long, and stop whining when those who aren't so
fortunate try to level the playing field a bit.

Why?
What playing field?
Oh I get it. You're one of those as wants to dumb down exams so everyone can
pass.
What a load of socialist ********.
One of the ideas that has landed us all in the ****.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:42:02 +0000, harryagain wrote:

Us able-bodied white men just have to admit that we have had an unfair
advantage for far too long, and stop whining when those who aren't so
fortunate try to level the playing field a bit.

Why?
What playing field?
Oh I get it. You're one of those as wants to dumb down exams so everyone
can pass.

Umm, no. I would say "Try again", but you do repeatedly prove that you
wouldn't recognise a clue if it bit you on the arse. For the second time.

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:42:02 +0000, harryagain wrote:

Us able-bodied white men just have to admit that we have had an unfair
advantage for far too long, and stop whining when those who aren't so
fortunate try to level the playing field a bit.

Why?
What playing field?
Oh I get it. You're one of those as wants to dumb down exams so everyone
can pass.

Umm, no. I would say "Try again", but you do repeatedly prove that you
wouldn't recognise a clue if it bit you on the arse. For the second time.

Pillocks like you can't grasp the simple fact that no-one is equal.
For many reasons, including race.

On 15/11/2013 07:02, harryagain wrote:

Pillocks like you can't grasp the simple fact that no-one is equal.
For many reasons, including race.


Pillocks like you don't understand that being a particular race doesn't
make you superior, only different.
Other factors may make an individual superior but not a race.
for example almost everyone in this group is superior to you because of
your inability to understand basic science.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 15/11/2013 07:02, harryagain wrote:

Pillocks like you can't grasp the simple fact that no-one is equal.
For many reasons, including race.


Pillocks like you don't understand that being a particular race doesn't
make you superior, only different.
Other factors may make an individual superior but not a race.
for example almost everyone in this group is superior to you because of
your inability to understand basic science.

Moving the goalposts again Den?

If these foreign parts inhabited by superior/equal races are so wonderful,
why are the inhabitant queing up to get over here?

The fact is they are **** holes inhabited by arseholes with a ****ty
culture.
I have visited a few so I know this.

In article ,
harryagain wrote:
If these foreign parts inhabited by superior/equal races are so
wonderful, why are the inhabitant queing up to get over here?

To fill up the gaps left by the Brits who retire to Spain?

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.