Hello,

My old Hotpoint washing machine has died. It was making a noise on the
spin so I replaced the bearings and was very proud of myself. It only
lasted a couple of weeks! We did a wash yesterday morning and that was
fine. then e put another wash in and the drum had seized solid. I'm
puzzled how one minute it was turning and the next it was not.

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new
machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I
could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at
Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany
and the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there
an easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be
nice to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the
future.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One
well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm
because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also
said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused
more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the
case. However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg
load.

Thanks,
Stephen.

Stephen.


If I consider "Cost of Ownership" over about a 30 year period then Indesit
have not let me down. I consider them to be disposable in the event of a
major failure. However, I have also found them reliable and the biggest
repair was a set of brushes in one. I cannot remember why I eventually
relaced any of them. (Make way for Miele fans!)

Panasonic do some nice ones at the budget end I can atest, but the last two
I had were Hoover and Service, sadly both, though long lasting, are now no
longer owned by the people who built them in their day and I'm always
suspicious when this happens and sadly its happening a lot recently!
The Panasonics look and feel sturdy to me and mine is working fine, though I
cannot quite get used to it making decisions on how long it will take for a
load on some arbitary factor as yet unknown!

Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
.222...

Stephen.


If I consider "Cost of Ownership" over about a 30 year period then Indesit
have not let me down. I consider them to be disposable in the event of a
major failure. However, I have also found them reliable and the biggest
repair was a set of brushes in one. I cannot remember why I eventually
relaced any of them. (Make way for Miele fans!)

In article ,
DerbyBorn wrote:

(Make way for Miele fans!)


I'm a bit of a Miele fan I'll admit :-)

The killer thing with Miele is although they are very reliable, if they do
go wrong then it'll cost you the price of a hotpoint to get it repaired if
you aren't lucky...

That and the fact parts are like rocking horse **** to find. I guess as a
result of the limited market for them.

We have a Miele washing machine, but waited for one of the 10 yr warranty
offers before buying.

Cost 900 quid for 10 years. 90 quid a year was a price we were willing to
pay - with a couple of kids it gets a fair work out and has been brilliant
so far (9 years in...)

I could have been on my 3rd cheapo machine by now and still only spent the
same (but I still like the Miele and would buy another one ;-))

Darren

In article , says...

In article ,
DerbyBorn wrote:

(Make way for Miele fans!)


I'm a bit of a Miele fan I'll admit :-)

The killer thing with Miele is although they are very reliable, if they do
go wrong then it'll cost you the price of a hotpoint to get it repaired if
you aren't lucky...

That and the fact parts are like rocking horse **** to find. I guess as a
result of the limited market for them.

We have a Miele washing machine, but waited for one of the 10 yr warranty
offers before buying.

Cost 900 quid for 10 years. 90 quid a year was a price we were willing to
pay - with a couple of kids it gets a fair work out and has been brilliant
so far (9 years in...)

I could have been on my 3rd cheapo machine by now and still only spent the
same (but I still like the Miele and would buy another one ;-))

We bought a low-spec Miele at about the same time our neighbour bought a
cheapo machine (same sized households).

She's on her 4th such machine after 20 years and has also spent a fair
amount on repairs over that time.
The Miele now looks well used, but works just as well as when we bought
it.
Note: Cleaning the filter & running it on a hot wash from time to time
is the only maintenance it has ever needed.


--
Sam

On 26/08/2013 00:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:


We bought a low-spec Miele at about the same time our neighbour bought a
cheapo machine (same sized households).

She's on her 4th such machine after 20 years and has also spent a fair
amount on repairs over that time.

Too many variables to make a comparison.

Your neighbour may have been overloading the machine on a regular basis
whereas you may have more kind to yours.


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

In article ,
says...

On 26/08/2013 00:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:


We bought a low-spec Miele at about the same time our neighbour bought a
cheapo machine (same sized households).

She's on her 4th such machine after 20 years and has also spent a fair
amount on repairs over that time.

Too many variables to make a comparison.

Your neighbour may have been overloading the machine on a regular basis
whereas you may have more kind to yours.

Fair point, but she's a (retired) engineer, & with only two in their
household I'm fairly confident she treats her machines quite well.

But it is far too small a data set to make any predictions.

--
Sam

-1On 25/08/2013 10:01, DerbyBorn wrote:
Stephen.


If I consider "Cost of Ownership" over about a 30 year period then Indesit
have not let me down. I consider them to be disposable in the event of a
major failure. However, I have also found them reliable and the biggest
repair was a set of brushes in one. I cannot remember why I eventually
relaced any of them. (Make way for Miele fans!)


+1
I always treat them as disposable items and buy at the cheap end of the
market and find that the machines last 5+ years. I don't bother with any
warranty contracts. Although usually rubbished by many here with
expensive machines I've found my bottom of line Indesit machine meet my
needs.

Past experience of any machine is unlikely to tell you anything about
future reliability etc. Many different brands are made in the same
factories and/or manufacturing has been outsourced in the recent years.
Although my last purchase was an Indesit it doesn't mean my next
purchase will be.

Consider also what you need from a machine. I guess that 99.9% don't use
_ANY_ of the bells and whistles on the more expensive machines at the
top of the range. In this household it tends to be the use of one of
two program cycles with a cold wash and the occasional high temperature
wash to "sanitise" the machine.



--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

+1
I always treat them as disposable items and buy at the cheap end of
the market and find that the machines last 5+ years. I don't bother
with any warranty contracts. Although usually rubbished by many here
with expensive machines I've found my bottom of line Indesit machine
meet my needs.

Past experience of any machine is unlikely to tell you anything about
future reliability etc. Many different brands are made in the same
factories and/or manufacturing has been outsourced in the recent
years. Although my last purchase was an Indesit it doesn't mean my
next purchase will be.

Consider also what you need from a machine. I guess that 99.9% don't
use _ANY_ of the bells and whistles on the more expensive machines at
the top of the range. In this household it tends to be the use of one
of two program cycles with a cold wash and the occasional high
temperature wash to "sanitise" the machine.



+1. Buy on appearance and features that suit you. (Just bought a Gorenje
Fridge on appearance and colour. Found that the maker is a huge company
yhat supplies to many large countries in the former Yugoslavia region. Does
it matter if it has a trnage sounding name?)

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:36:34 +0100, Stephen wrote:

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new machine.
I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I could
afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany and
the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there an
easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be nice
to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the future.

The more expensive Logixx range appears to be made in Germany. We've had
one for two years now and it's excellent. very good build quality, qiet
and efficient. It's a world away from Hotpoint. We managed to get it
discounted (from Comet!) so shop around.

The next range down, not sure about. below that, definitely made
elsewhere.

Sorry, don't know about the split tub. Not that that's necessarily a
guide; our *old* Hotpoint (not the newer one) had a one piece tub but
nevertheless the bearings were replaceable.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One well
known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm because it
claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also said that
6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused more
vibration because there was less space between the tub and the case.
However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg load.

I wouldn't worry about that. Sounds like "Which?" rubbish to me...they
are experts on nothing.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

I was warned off LG as the direct drive innards are appraently very
expensive to fix if they ever can be. Biko, interestingly have quite a few
fans, but to me they look cheap and flimsy, I guess its really depeendent on
how much they get used.

Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:36:34 +0100, Stephen wrote:

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new machine.
I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I could
afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany and
the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there an
easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be nice
to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the future.

The more expensive Logixx range appears to be made in Germany. We've had
one for two years now and it's excellent. very good build quality, qiet
and efficient. It's a world away from Hotpoint. We managed to get it
discounted (from Comet!) so shop around.

The next range down, not sure about. below that, definitely made
elsewhere.

Sorry, don't know about the split tub. Not that that's necessarily a
guide; our *old* Hotpoint (not the newer one) had a one piece tub but
nevertheless the bearings were replaceable.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One well
known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm because it
claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also said that
6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused more
vibration because there was less space between the tub and the case.
However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg load.

I wouldn't worry about that. Sounds like "Which?" rubbish to me...they
are experts on nothing.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 25/08/2013 11:32, Brian Gaff wrote:
I was warned off LG as the direct drive innards are appraently very
expensive to fix if they ever can be. Biko, interestingly have quite a few
fans, but to me they look cheap and flimsy, I guess its really depeendent on
how much they get used.

Brian

The motors themselves appear to have a 10 year warranty from LG.

--
Rod

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 12:41:10 +0100, polygonum wrote:

The motors themselves appear to have a 10 year warranty from LG.

But if it takes a fitter the best part of a day to get access, swap
out, rebuild and test you are still going to have a considerable bill
outside the complete machine warranty period...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 25 Aug 2013 09:10:58 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

The more expensive Logixx range appears to be made in Germany. We've had
one for two years now and it's excellent. very good build quality, qiet
and efficient. It's a world away from Hotpoint. We managed to get it
discounted (from Comet!) so shop around.

The next range down, not sure about. below that, definitely made
elsewhere.

Yes, I thought that might be the case. The thing is that I was
wondering about getting the middle one and that's the one none of us
are sure about!

Sorry, don't know about the split tub. Not that that's necessarily a
guide; our *old* Hotpoint (not the newer one) had a one piece tub but
nevertheless the bearings were replaceable.

How do you swap the bearings on that? Working from only behind the
tub?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 15:14:33 +0100, Stephen wrote:

On 25 Aug 2013 09:10:58 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

The more expensive Logixx range appears to be made in Germany. We've had
one for two years now and it's excellent. very good build quality, qiet
and efficient. It's a world away from Hotpoint. We managed to get it
discounted (from Comet!) so shop around.

The next range down, not sure about. below that, definitely made
elsewhere.

Yes, I thought that might be the case. The thing is that I was wondering
about getting the middle one and that's the one none of us are sure
about!

Sorry, don't know about the split tub. Not that that's necessarily a
guide; our *old* Hotpoint (not the newer one) had a one piece tub but
nevertheless the bearings were replaceable.

How do you swap the bearings on that? Working from only behind the tub?

Undo the big nut on the back of the shaft, withdraw drum from front
(having removed front panel). Drift out bearings from inside the drum.


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 25 Aug 2013 09:10:58 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:


I wouldn't worry about that. Sounds like "Which?" rubbish to me...they
are experts on nothing.

On 25 Aug 2013 09:10:58 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:


I wouldn't worry about that. Sounds like "Which?" rubbish to me...they
are experts on nothing.

Sorry about the blank post.

It was the uk white goods web site that is sometiems recommended here.
That said, whenever I have "cross posted" a question to uk.diy and
there, I find the uk.diy answers are more for having and go and
repairing, whereas the ukwg forums are too quick (imho) to say give up
and buy a new one or reluctant to give advice for legal reasons (gas,
electricity, etc)

Thanks,
Stephen.

In article ,
Stephen writes:
Hello,

My old Hotpoint washing machine has died. It was making a noise on the
spin so I replaced the bearings and was very proud of myself. It only
lasted a couple of weeks! We did a wash yesterday morning and that was
fine. then e put another wash in and the drum had seized solid. I'm
puzzled how one minute it was turning and the next it was not.

Hard to imagine what would do that, unless the bearing collapsed
so badly the drum is jammed against the outer drum. Another
possibility would be something has got jammed between the two
drums.

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new
machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I
could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at
Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany
and the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there
an easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be
nice to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the
future.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One
well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm
because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also

Depends what you expect when you take things out. A towel taken from
a 1600 RPM spin, whilst not dry, has little enough water left in it
that you can use it to dry you. If you are going to use energy to
do the remaining drying (tumble drier, drying over radiators or hanging
in a heated house, etc), then the faster spin drying is much more
efficient than the heat taken from your home in the longer drying time.

The force on the water is proportional to twice the spin speed, so
1400 RPM is 36% high and 1600 RPM is 77% higher drying force than
1200 RPM. However, it's true that most of the water is ejected when
it's done the initial spin at around 300RPM.

My preference has always been to go for highest spin speed, and
no tumble drier capability. I used a dehumidifier drier cupboard
if I need things completely dried quickly after a 1600RPM spin.

said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused
more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the
case.

That sounds like bull****.
The larger drum diameter also improves the effectiveness of the spin.

However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg load.

I think this relates rather more to the shorter life expectancy of
modern machines. If you took a 20 year old machine with a 6kg rating
and ran it at 8-9kg, it would probably last about 5 years, which is the
life expectancy of most machines nowadays. It doesn't mean there was
any significant design change to handle the extra weight. (There are
significant design changes to handle the higher spin speeds.)

I did once weight out the max rated load for my machine, and I don't
think you be able to physically fit it in the drum.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:35:05 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

Another
possibility would be something has got jammed between the two
drums.

I haven't taken it apart yet to see what has happened.

Depends what you expect when you take things out. A towel taken from
a 1600 RPM spin, whilst not dry, has little enough water left in it
that you can use it to dry you. If you are going to use energy to
do the remaining drying (tumble drier, drying over radiators or hanging
in a heated house, etc), then the faster spin drying is much more
efficient than the heat taken from your home in the longer drying time.

The force on the water is proportional to twice the spin speed, so
1400 RPM is 36% high and 1600 RPM is 77% higher drying force than
1200 RPM. However, it's true that most of the water is ejected when
it's done the initial spin at around 300RPM.

I agree. I always thought the more water out the better. Their
argument seems to be that fast spins are noisy (our 1600rpm one
certainly was) and puts more wear and tear on the machine.

My preference has always been to go for highest spin speed, and
no tumble drier capability. I used a dehumidifier drier cupboard
if I need things completely dried quickly after a 1600RPM spin.

I have heard the cupboard idea on this group before. Sounds good but
I've never got around to it.

I think this relates rather more to the shorter life expectancy of
modern machines. If you took a 20 year old machine with a 6kg rating
and ran it at 8-9kg, it would probably last about 5 years, which is the
life expectancy of most machines nowadays. It doesn't mean there was
any significant design change to handle the extra weight. (There are
significant design changes to handle the higher spin speeds.)

I did once weight out the max rated load for my machine, and I don't
think you be able to physically fit it in the drum.

According to the same web site, the weight is calculated full to the
top of the drum with clothes neatly folded to get the best load
possible. They agree that this is done for marketing and impossible in
use and that filling to the top would stop the clothes from spinning
and falling properly Durant the wash.

Bosch seem to do an 8kg model and a 9 kg model. I wonder whether the
9kg bit is just to compete with the Jones and whether I could save
some money by buying the less fashionable 8kg model.

I will take the advice of this group and go for the faster spin speed,
though I think the 8kg ones only go to 1400 rather than 1600.

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:35:05 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

[snip]
The force on the water is proportional to twice the spin speed, so
1400 RPM is 36% high and 1600 RPM is 77% higher drying force than
1200 RPM. However, it's true that most of the water is ejected when
it's done the initial spin at around 300RPM.

Actually proportional to the spin speed squared. Also proportional to
the drum diameter squared.
--
Dave W

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

To be exact, the centrifugal (although job's worths may say that it's
not scientifically correct to use that word) acceleration can be
expressed either as ...
v^2 / r where v is the tangential velocity, and r the radius
.... or ...
r times w^2 where r is the radius, w the spin speed

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 19:45:37 +0100, Dave W
wrote:

Actually proportional to the spin speed squared. Also proportional to
the drum diameter squared.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

In article ,
Dave W writes:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:35:05 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

[snip]
The force on the water is proportional to twice the spin speed, so
1400 RPM is 36% high and 1600 RPM is 77% higher drying force than
1200 RPM. However, it's true that most of the water is ejected when
it's done the initial spin at around 300RPM.

Actually proportional to the spin speed squared.

bugger - that's what I meant to say, and I got it right in the calcs.
(Proportional to twice the spin speed is toutology, besides being wrong:-(

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 19:45:37 +0100, Dave W
wrote:

Actually proportional to the spin speed squared. Also proportional to
the drum diameter squared.

All of which makes perfect sense, so actually a 9kg model with wider
drum should perform better than an 8kg one with a smaller drum.

I was still looking at Bosch models last night. Using the compare
function on the Bosch web site, it looks as though the 9kg Logixx
WAS32760GB would use more water and more electricity than the 8kg
Exxcel WAQ28461GB, which makes sense if it has a bigger drum and holds
more water and needs to heat that water.

But... I have downloaded the manuals from the Bosch web site and the
9kg model seems to use less water and electricity for every programme
except cottons 60C; for that it uses 1.23kWh and 60L water, whereas
the Excel uses 1.15kWh and 68L, so it seems to be swings and
roundabouts: one sues more water on ether 60C wash and the other uses
more electricity.

Perhaps these are only small differences (less than a unit) and
nothing to worry about; perhaps I should get the Logixx on the basis
that it seems to use less water and electricity for all the other
washes and being a Logixx would be better built than the Exxcel?

Thanks,
Stephen

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 09:02:41 +0100, Stephen wrote:

I was still looking at Bosch models last night. Using the compare
function on the Bosch web site, it looks as though the 9kg Logixx
WAS32760GB would use more water and more electricity than the 8kg Exxcel
WAQ28461GB, which makes sense if it has a bigger drum and holds more
water and needs to heat that water.

But... I have downloaded the manuals from the Bosch web site and the 9kg
model seems to use less water and electricity for every programme except
cottons 60C; for that it uses 1.23kWh and 60L water, whereas the Excel
uses 1.15kWh and 68L, so it seems to be swings and roundabouts: one sues
more water on ether 60C wash and the other uses more electricity.

It's so dramatically better than the old Hotpoints, I didn't really care.

Perhaps these are only small differences (less than a unit) and nothing
to worry about; perhaps I should get the Logixx on the basis that it
seems to use less water and electricity for all the other washes and
being a Logixx would be better built than the Exxcel?

Yes. It does go into a very low power mode if you don't switch it off
immediately after use (e.g. you forget about it). And it does have an
alarm too, to remind you that it's finished.

We also got the condenser dryer (more expensive than the w/m!) Given that
sons come in late at night and start a load of washing/drying that is
often needed the next day, that has turned out to be a big saving.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 26/08/2013 09:43, Bob Eager wrote:


Yes. It does go into a very low power mode if you don't switch it off
immediately after use (e.g. you forget about it).

Don't ALL washing machines have to do this now?


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 09:02:41 +0100, Stephen wrote:

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 19:45:37 +0100, Dave W
wrote:

Actually proportional to the spin speed squared. Also proportional to
the drum diameter squared.

All of which makes perfect sense, so actually a 9kg model with wider
drum should perform better than an 8kg one with a smaller drum.

I was still looking at Bosch models last night. Using the compare
function on the Bosch web site, it looks as though the 9kg Logixx
WAS32760GB would use more water and more electricity than the 8kg
Exxcel WAQ28461GB, which makes sense if it has a bigger drum and holds
more water and needs to heat that water.

But... I have downloaded the manuals from the Bosch web site and the
9kg model seems to use less water and electricity for every programme
except cottons 60C; for that it uses 1.23kWh and 60L water, whereas
the Excel uses 1.15kWh and 68L, so it seems to be swings and
roundabouts: one sues more water on ether 60C wash and the other uses
more electricity.

Perhaps these are only small differences (less than a unit) and
nothing to worry about; perhaps I should get the Logixx on the basis
that it seems to use less water and electricity for all the other
washes and being a Logixx would be better built than the Exxcel?

Thanks,
Stephen

Looking on JL's site, the figures don't always tally. First of all the
initial figure for Annual Energy Consumption is given in kWh/cycle, then
sometimes the energy p.a. can be higher for a lower energy per cycle. The
same is true of the water, where a higher figure per wash has a lower figure
p.a..
The same is so for TVs - although water useage isn't given for those.

Either the measuring criteria differ or it's just a good, plain,
old-fashioned cock-up.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 09:54:37 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

Looking on JL's site, the figures don't always tally. First of all the
initial figure for Annual Energy Consumption is given in kWh/cycle, then
sometimes the energy p.a. can be higher for a lower energy per cycle. The
same is true of the water, where a higher figure per wash has a lower figure
p.a..
The same is so for TVs - although water useage isn't given for those.

Either the measuring criteria differ or it's just a good, plain,
old-fashioned cock-up.

I agree. The Exxcel model I was looking at has lower annual water
consumption and electricity consumption than the logixx. However,
reading the figures in the Bosch manuals shows that the exxcel uses
68L per wash whereas the logixx uses only 60L, so how can that be?

I am going round in circles and I am back to considering the exxcel
model again. Notwithstanding the figrues don't add up, since the
exxcel is £400ish and the logixx £800ish, I wonder even if the exxcel
used more water or electricity, would these extra bills total £400
over the life of the product? Perhaps I should save £400 now by
getting the exxcel at the cost of higher electricity or water bills
later.

Thanks,
Stephen.

In article , Stephen
writes

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One
well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm
because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also
said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused
more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the
case. However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg
load.

For someone on a budget I have recently pointed them in the general
direction of Beko and specifically to one with a high spin speed and a
hand wash cycle. In contrast with some mainstream brands the spares are
readily available and cheap (googled the part number and spares to find
the cost and availability of the major bits and all were reasonable)

I have never owned one though . . . . .
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:37:35 +0100, fred wrote:

For someone on a budget I have recently pointed them in the general
direction of Beko and specifically to one with a high spin speed and a
hand wash cycle. In contrast with some mainstream brands the spares are
readily available and cheap (googled the part number and spares to find
the cost and availability of the major bits and all were reasonable)

I have young children so it will be uses a couple of times a day. So
it doesn't have to be a budget price, long lasting is more of a
requirement.

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:36:34 +0100, Stephen
wrote:

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new
machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I
could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at
Bosch.

Bosch, Siemens, Neff and Gaggenau are all part of one company and
often sell the same items at different prices under different brand
names.

A not uncommon cause of jammed drums (often preceded by loud
screeching sounds (from the washing machine that is) is the thick
wires used in some female chest support garments coming out in the
wash and lodging between the drum and case, the wire can fit through
the holes in the drum.

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:36:34 +0100, Stephen

A not uncommon cause of jammed drums (often preceded by loud
screeching sounds (from the washing machine that is) is the thick
wires used in some female chest support garments coming out in the
wash and lodging between the drum and case, the wire can fit through
the holes in the drum.

A (admittedly minor!) advantage of the Miele honeycomb drum - that can't
happen as the holes are tiny :-)

Darren

Stephen wrote:

Hello,

My old Hotpoint washing machine has died...

I've only ever owned secondhand washing machines - two that were in houses I
bought, and one from the local repair man. In the latter's case he bemoaned
the difficulty in repairing machines which have increasing amounts of
electronics in them, and I was happy to wait until he could sell me a
reconditioned older model, of the sort that he's happy to continue to work
on.

My mother recently changed her machine (a washer/drier) and is not happy
with the new one - it had too many buttons on the front; the programme dial
doesn't rotate as it runs through a programme (just picks the starting
point) and - worst of all - the quickest normal wash takes about 90 minutes,
rather than the 40-50 minutes her old machine took.

She also at first had considerable trouble getting the machine to open the
door at the end of a wash. This - I think - was caused by her having the
tumble-drier time set non-zero, so the machine would just go straight from
the end of the wash cycle into drying. But she's old enough not to
understand that she therefore needs to set the drier option off so that at
the end of the wash it will allow the door to open; "But I want it to dry
the clothes...". The thing is, that of course she wants to take some of the
clothes out after the end of the wash and only put selections back in to
tumble. She also wants to be able to open the machine and test by hand how
much more tumbling is required. I've never actually been in her house when
teh machine is in use so don't know if there's any other issue with it.

Looking at the manual online, it's not at all clear why some programmes take
much longer than others.

I googled for customer reviews of the machine she got, and it was a
favourite with many people.

I think you should at least consider reading the manual for any machine you
contemplate buying and look for what it doesn't tell you directly eg how
easy it is to interrupt a machine mid-cycle, and compare it with your
expectations.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

Stephen wrote:
Hello,

My old Hotpoint washing machine has died. It was making a noise on the
spin so I replaced the bearings and was very proud of myself. It only
lasted a couple of weeks! We did a wash yesterday morning and that was
fine. then e put another wash in and the drum had seized solid. I'm
puzzled how one minute it was turning and the next it was not.

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new
machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I
could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at
Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany
and the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there
an easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be
nice to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the
future.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One
well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm
because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also
said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused
more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the
case. However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg
load.

Thanks,
Stephen.


We had a cheapo Candy washing machine which was used at least twice a
day, 7 days a week, and lasted for well over 10 years. A few cosmetic
bits fell off or broke, but the thing kept washing perfectly. In fact,
we only changed it because it looked so tired, and we thought it best to
get a new one before it died and left us in ****. Its still in our shed
as a back up. The only down side for us was capacity, and the new one is
twice(ish) as big, and there for only used once a day.

--
AC

On Sunday 25 August 2013 09:36 Stephen wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Hello,

My old Hotpoint washing machine has died. It was making a noise on the
spin so I replaced the bearings and was very proud of myself. It only
lasted a couple of weeks! We did a wash yesterday morning and that was
fine. then e put another wash in and the drum had seized solid. I'm
puzzled how one minute it was turning and the next it was not.

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new
machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I
could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at
Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany

Logixx are the good ones. Everything else is crappier.

and the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there
an easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be
nice to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the
future.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One
well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm
because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also
said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused
more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the
case. However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg
load.

I would go with a low end Miele or a Bosch Logixx if economics musts.

I use very few programmes on my Miele but features I consider essential:

Open door at almost any time (locked out near the end and for 95C washes)

Control panel auto lock after a few mins of programme start - great if kids
fiddle.

High spin =1200RPM

Short wash option

Extra rinse water option (I leave this set).


Mieles are very quiet on account of having bloody heavy cast iron ballast
weights.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:36:34 AM UTC+1, Stephen wrote:
I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I
could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000)

Miele start at £699 (on offer until Tuesday)
http://www.rapidappliances.co.uk/store/info-89473.html
honeycomb drum, 7kg capacity

Owain

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:34:32 -0700, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:36:34 AM UTC+1, Stephen wrote:
I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I could
afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000)

Miele start at £699 (on offer until Tuesday)
http://www.rapidappliances.co.uk/store/info-89473.html honeycomb drum,
7kg capacity

I got our Bosch Logixx a couple of years ago. I paid, net, just about
£400. With a four year parts and labour warranty.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 25/08/2013 09:36, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

My old Hotpoint washing machine has died. It was making a noise on the
spin so I replaced the bearings and was very proud of myself. It only
lasted a couple of weeks! We did a wash yesterday morning and that was
fine. then e put another wash in and the drum had seized solid. I'm
puzzled how one minute it was turning and the next it was not.

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new
machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I
could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at
Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany
and the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there
an easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be
nice to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the
future.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One
well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm
because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also
said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused
more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the
case. However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg
load.


My Bosch LogixX has done three washes per week for fifteen years and has
never had any work done on it.


--
Peter Crosland

On 25/08/2013 19:18, Peter Crosland wrote:
On 25/08/2013 09:36, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

My old Hotpoint washing machine has died. It was making a noise on the
spin so I replaced the bearings and was very proud of myself. It only
lasted a couple of weeks! We did a wash yesterday morning and that was
fine. then e put another wash in and the drum had seized solid. I'm
puzzled how one minute it was turning and the next it was not.

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new
machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I
could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at
Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany
and the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there
an easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be
nice to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the
future.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One
well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm
because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also
said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused
more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the
case. However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg
load.


My Bosch LogixX has done three washes per week for fifteen years and has
never had any work done on it.

Correction Maxx is the washing machine, LogiXX is the dishwasher. Both
running after 15 years continuous use. The Logixx needed a replacement
podwer dispenser sping after 12 years.


--
Peter Crosland

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 08:29:54 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

My Bosch LogixX has done three washes per week for fifteen years and
has never had any work done on it.

Correction Maxx is the washing machine, LogiXX is the dishwasher. Both
running after 15 years continuous use. The Logixx needed a replacement
podwer dispenser sping after 12 years.

Hmmm. That would be why my washing machine looks like this, then:

http://www.tavi.co.uk/logixx1.jpg

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 08:51:38 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 08:29:54 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

My Bosch LogixX has done three washes per week for fifteen years and
has never had any work done on it.

Correction Maxx is the washing machine, LogiXX is the dishwasher. Both
running after 15 years continuous use. The Logixx needed a replacement
podwer dispenser sping after 12 years.

Hmmm. That would be why my washing machine looks like this, then:

http://www.tavi.co.uk/logixx1.jpg

Ah, sorry. I see. You are saying you have a Maxx washing machine! My
mistake...



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor