Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Windmill" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

I put some on brambles this summer which I though hadn't worked - but 6
weeks later they keeled over, were cut down and have not re-appeared.

On 12/08/2013 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

In this weather you should see some yellowing of the growing points
within two weeks of application and a complete kill after a month. It is
a slow acting translocating weedkiller that does roots as well as top
growth. If you see an immediate effect you used it too strong!

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

If it is wilderness that you are reclaiming the best value for money is
leave it all until tinder dry. Make a firebreak around the edges and
then flash burn it to see off most of the weed seeds. The black scorched
earth makes it much easier to spot weed any green shoots.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

Docks and grass about a fortnight if the weather is dry, brambles about a
month, elder bushes a couple of months depending on size. Bracken around
six weeks to two months it seems ver resistant to glyphosate and needs
several treatments possibly at monthly intervals. Also I would bump up the
concentration by 25-30% for elder and bracken. ie Instead of 120-150 ml of
360g/l concentrate per five litres use 150-200 ml.

If you're buying it pre-diluted it could take ages and may not work - they
dilute it to a ridiculous extent.

If the elder is large and has a significant trunk use the techniques
described here previously of hashing the bark to get the glyphosate past
the waterproof bark or drill holes into the trunk and top up with
concentrated glyphosate.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Monday, 12 August 2013 11:52:46 UTC+2, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?

E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?



Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

Seems to vary enormously. About 10 years ago, I would use Roundup against broad leaf weeds on a hot day and see them visibly start to wilt within 2hrs at most and they'd be flat out dead in a couple of days. Try using today's Roundup formulation, however, and you'll be lucky to achieve any knockdown at all.
I have give up with Roundup and Weedol. I buy some cheap stuff from Wilko in sachets that is supposed to be watered down, but I apply it neat. Still takes about 2 weeks to kill the weeds off, though.

On 12/08/13 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

wait two weeks really for a tough plant.

elder and brambles are the worst.
grass and docks a few days should see em yellow


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 13/08/2013 10:25, wrote:
On Monday, 12 August 2013 11:52:46 UTC+2, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?

E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

Seems to vary enormously. About 10 years ago, I would use Roundup against broad leaf weeds on a hot day and see them visibly start to wilt within 2hrs at most and they'd be flat out dead in a couple of days. Try using today's Roundup formulation, however, and you'll be lucky to achieve any knockdown at all.

Monsanto a couple of years back were selling something they called
"fast" Roundup that was more than just glyphosate. It made home users
aware that something was going on within a couple of days.

The way that glyphosate works by inhibiting certain chemical pathways
means that it takes a week or more before the photosynthetic byproducts
build up to levels that are toxic to the plant. The growing point is
usually affected first - nettles turn a nice shade of yellow as it takes
effect and grass a characteristic bronze as it expires.

I have give up with Roundup and Weedol. I buy some cheap stuff from Wilko in sachets that is supposed to be watered down, but I apply it neat. Still takes about 2 weeks to kill the weeds off, though.

Sounds like a major failure to RTFM is causing to your problems.

Any generic glyphosate product will do the job apart from on a handful
of Roundup Ready(TM) volunteer weeds, waxy holly and ivy and curiously
buttercup which is surprisingly resistant to the stuff.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tuesday, 13 August 2013 11:34:16 UTC+2, Martin Brown wrote:


[...]

No way. The formulation has definitely changed for the worse. Perhaps it only works effectively on Monsanto's genetically-engineered weeds.

On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:52:46 GMT, lid
(Windmill) wrote:

Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so

Woody stuff like brambles takes weeks, but when the sap draws back
into the rootball at the end of the season it kills the bugger off
quick-smart.

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 03:24:07 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

No way. The formulation has definitely changed for the worse. Perhaps it
only works effectively on Monsanto's genetically-engineered weeds.

The branded stuff aka Roundup, Weedol just has less of the active
ingredient (glyphostae) that the generics, they may have some
surficants to aid penetration though.

I'd just get the highest concentration I could, dilute if required
and bruise the target plant a bit. It does take a while to act, some
plants are quicker than others and some tough buggers can take more
than one application. Just be patient, it does not produce an instant
knockdown. Indeed by the way it works you don't want an instant
knockdown.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 12/08/2013 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.



Been trying to kill off Mares Tail with Glyphosphate ........ almost
zero impact

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:41:37 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Been trying to kill off Mares Tail with Glyphosphate ........ almost
zero impact

Mares Tail is one of the tough buggers, mainly beacuse the outer skin
of the plant pretty water proof so the glyphosate has trouble getting
into the plant in suffcient quantity. Give the plants a gentle
bruising (walk on them) before spraying.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Bracken is another plant like nettles, buttercup, etc, that has
natural defences against sprays - deep resilient roots, IIRC
interconnecting, moderately waxy leaf surface, etc. The preferred
spray against bracken used to be Asulox, which does work, if rather
slowly over several seasons, but things may have moved on since then.

Certainly with bracken you need to hit it hard and above all
consistently, it's no good expecting one spray to do the trick. You
have to remember too that it dies back completely every year, so
there's probably not much point in spraying it too late in the season.
AFAICR, I used to spray twice with Asulox, once quite early in the
season when the new shoots were 15-30cm above ground, again some time
later, probably about mid-summer, but I can't now remember the precise
recommendations for best results.

And you need to keep doing it every year, because it can take several
years to exhaust the plants' systems and achieve complete kill.

When young and fit, I used to pull it out as well, but it's a hard
pull, and I'd probably struggle to do it now. And again, you have to
keep at it consistently, it's no good just having a go when you feel
like it.

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC), Steve Firth
wrote:

Bracken around
six weeks to two months it seems ver resistant to glyphosate and needs
several treatments possibly at monthly intervals. Also I would bump up the
concentration by 25-30% for elder and bracken. ie Instead of 120-150 ml of
360g/l concentrate per five litres use 150-200 ml.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On 14/08/2013 21:41, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 12/08/2013 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

Been trying to kill off Mares Tail with Glyphosphate ........ almost
zero impact

There is a very waterproof layer of silica on the outside of marestail
that makes them totally impervious to weedkiller. You have to bruise it
slightly before the weedkiller can have any effect at all. The roots go
so deep and store so much energy that you will find it easier to move
house than to eliminate this weed once it is established.

Only a concerted effort of chemical and physical attack so that no part
of it ever sees daylight for long stands any chance at all.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 15/08/13 07:34, Martin Brown wrote:
On 14/08/2013 21:41, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 12/08/2013 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

Been trying to kill off Mares Tail with Glyphosphate ........ almost
zero impact

There is a very waterproof layer of silica on the outside of marestail
that makes them totally impervious to weedkiller.

Not so

try Glufosinate-ammonium

(DL-Phosphinothricin)

"Glufosinate is sold under trade names Basta, Buster and Liberty"

It is however quite persistent. so be careful what you plant later on.

http://www.agrigem.co.uk/weed-killer...l/harvest.html

You have to bruise it slightly before the weedkiller can have any
effect at all. The roots go so deep and store so much energy that you
will find it easier to move house than to eliminate this weed once it
is established.

Only a concerted effort of chemical and physical attack so that no
part of it ever sees daylight for long stands any chance at all.

Again, not so. It just needs the correct weedkiller.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Java Jive wrote:
Bracken is another plant like nettles,

Fascinating.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:41:37 PM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 12/08/2013 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

Been trying to kill off Mares Tail with Glyphosphate ........ almost
zero impact

In Message-ID: to
uk.rec.gardening, Nick Maclaren once said:

"Long after the human race has joined the dinosaurs, and new races of
gardeners have appeared, this will still be a FAQ. Horsetail has
been around for approximately 3 times as long as the mammals and is
showing no signs of going away."

(Horsetail and Mares Tail are the same thing.)

writes:

On Tuesday, 13 August 2013 11:34:16 UTC+2, Martin Brown wrote:


[...]

No way. The formulation has definitely changed for the worse. Perhaps it only works effectively on Monsanto's genetically-engineered weeds.

Read somewhere that Roundup-resistant weeds are now a problem. And that
the patent expired fairly recently. And that there is now something
newer than glyphosate which does work on the resistant weeds.
Suspicious persons no doubt wonder if the Roundup-resistant weeds were
specially bred or modified!

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Geoff Pearson" writes:


"Windmill" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

I put some on brambles this summer which I though hadn't worked - but 6
weeks later they keeled over, were cut down and have not re-appeared.

I'll wait a bit longer, then. The retail price of tiny sachets of
already-quite-dilute glyphosate is outrageous.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

Martin Brown writes:

On 12/08/2013 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

In this weather you should see some yellowing of the growing points
within two weeks of application and a complete kill after a month. It is
a slow acting translocating weedkiller that does roots as well as top
growth. If you see an immediate effect you used it too strong!

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

If it is wilderness that you are reclaiming the best value for money is
leave it all until tinder dry. Make a firebreak around the edges and
then flash burn it to see off most of the weed seeds. The black scorched
earth makes it much easier to spot weed any green shoots.

The back garden has become a fair imitation of wilderness, but the last
time I even had a small safe fire, away from anything flammable, some
busybody called the fire brigade.


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

Steve Firth writes:

Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.

Docks and grass about a fortnight if the weather is dry, brambles about a
month, elder bushes a couple of months depending on size. Bracken around
six weeks to two months it seems ver resistant to glyphosate and needs
several treatments possibly at monthly intervals.

The bracken looks slightly discouraged, but not much more than that.
Suppose I'll have to spray again. The elderberry is new growth and
seems now to be dying.

Also I would bump up the
concentration by 25-30% for elder and bracken. ie Instead of 120-150 ml of
360g/l concentrate per five litres use 150-200 ml.

If you're buying it pre-diluted it could take ages and may not work - they
dilute it to a ridiculous extent.

Indeed. But having sprayed myself accidentally I'm now a little
concerned about its alleged harmlessness so slightly reassured that the
solution was weak.

If the elder is large and has a significant trunk use the techniques
described here previously of hashing the bark to get the glyphosate past
the waterproof bark or drill holes into the trunk and top up with
concentrated glyphosate.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Dave Liquorice" writes:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 03:24:07 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

No way. The formulation has definitely changed for the worse. Perhaps it
only works effectively on Monsanto's genetically-engineered weeds.

The branded stuff aka Roundup, Weedol just has less of the active
ingredient (glyphostae) that the generics, they may have some
surficants to aid penetration though.

I wonder if a little squirt of dish detergent migh be helpful?

I'd just get the highest concentration I could, dilute if required
and bruise the target plant a bit. It does take a while to act, some
plants are quicker than others and some tough buggers can take more
than one application. Just be patient, it does not produce an instant
knockdown. Indeed by the way it works you don't want an instant
knockdown.

It's not so easy to decide which brand has the highest concentration.
Seems to have been made a little obscure, perhaps on purpose.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

Rick Hughes writes:

On 12/08/2013 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.



Been trying to kill off Mares Tail with Glyphosphate ........ almost
zero impact

Is that the shrub with purplish flowers?

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

In article ,
Rick Hughes writes:
Been trying to kill off Mares Tail with Glyphosphate ........ almost
zero impact

Parts of my garden wwere covered in it when I moved in.

The brusing technique mentioned above works, but you need to combine
that with hitting it at the right time of year - just as it stops
growing for the current year prior to dying off for the winter.
That's when the plant draws back nutrients from the stems to store
over winter in the roots (which are very deep). You want it to draw
back the glyphosate too, so it sits in the roots over winter and
has a long chance to kill them whilst they are inactive. Even so,
it will take 2-3 years to knock it on the head, and you'll always
get the odd one popping up afterwards which you can handle
individually.

My garden is almost completely free of it for 10 years now, although
since there are gardens nearby covered in the stuff, I have to be
dilegent in taking out the occasional new one.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 18/08/2013 03:19, Windmill wrote:
Rick Hughes writes:

On 12/08/2013 10:52, Windmill wrote:
Does anyone know how long glyphosate takes to kill various weeds?
E.g. elderberry bushes, dockins, brambles, bracken, grass?

Don't want to waste money by spraying again if it's premature to do so.



Been trying to kill off Mares Tail with Glyphosphate ........ almost
zero impact

Is that the shrub with purplish flowers?


http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/...e.aspx?pid=257

--
Rod

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 02:01:41 GMT, Windmill wrote:

writes:

On Tuesday, 13 August 2013 11:34:16 UTC+2, Martin Brown wrote:

[...]

No way. The formulation has definitely changed for the worse. Perhaps it only works effectively on Monsanto's genetically-engineered weeds.

Read somewhere that Roundup-resistant weeds are now a problem. And that
the patent expired fairly recently. And that there is now something
newer than glyphosate which does work on the resistant weeds.
Suspicious persons no doubt wonder if the Roundup-resistant weeds were
specially bred or modified!

If they were, we'd(!) be sued for having them in our gardens. Big
corporations, in league with judges that like money, are good at punishing
victims, as we've already seen.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 02:18:42 GMT, Windmill wrote:

It's not so easy to decide which brand has the highest concentration.
Seems to have been made a little obscure, perhaps on purpose.

It ought to be in the small print of ingredients as g/l.

--
Cheers
Dave.

PeterC writes:

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 02:01:41 GMT, Windmill wrote:

writes:

On Tuesday, 13 August 2013 11:34:16 UTC+2, Martin Brown wrote:

[...]

No way. The formulation has definitely changed for the worse. Perhaps it only works effectively on Monsanto's genetically-engineered weeds.

Read somewhere that Roundup-resistant weeds are now a problem. And that
the patent expired fairly recently. And that there is now something
newer than glyphosate which does work on the resistant weeds.
Suspicious persons no doubt wonder if the Roundup-resistant weeds were
specially bred or modified!

If they were, we'd(!) be sued for having them in our gardens. Big
corporations, in league with judges that like money, are good at punishing
victims, as we've already seen.

The 'committee effect', where people who mostly love their wives and
kids cheerfully vote in committee to screw their customers/clients/etc.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Dave Liquorice" writes:

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 02:18:42 GMT, Windmill wrote:

It's not so easy to decide which brand has the highest concentration.
Seems to have been made a little obscure, perhaps on purpose.

It ought to be in the small print of ingredients as g/l.

Hard to locate, though, and then you have to decide if 6 sachets
containing 7g/l., to be diluted with X litres of water and allegedly
capable of treating 50 sq. metres and costing 9.99 is better than 20
sachets ... or .... and so on.

Probably easier the second time you buy.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:30:26 GMT, Windmill wrote:

It ought to be in the small print of ingredients as g/l.

Hard to locate, though, and then you have to decide if 6 sachets
containing 7g/l., to be diluted with X litres of water and allegedly
capable of treating 50 sq. metres and costing 9.99 is better than 20
sachets ... or .... and so on.

No different to grocery shopping. Never assume an "offer" is the best
value, around 50% of the time it is not.

--
Cheers
Dave.