This from the Islington borough magazine:



Young Islington
The chance to progress
Twins Ryan and Rhys Wenzel, 21, both completed apprenticeships with
Islington
Council, and are now employed by the Angel Business Improvement District
team.
They spoke to IslingtonLife about their roles and why they think
apprenticeships can
be a great opportunity…
Ryan described a typical day’s work. “Our main job in the morning is to
collect the
recycling from businesses in the area. The really nice thing about this
is that the
businesses have built up good relationships with us and know our faces,
so they
stop to talk to us in the mornings. After we’ve done all the recycling
we have a more
pro-active afternoon – we go around looking for graffiti to be cleaned
or incidents
of fly-tipping. We also remove any flyposting. There are certain hot
spots that we
know to look out for. We also respond to any calls from the public
regarding flytipping or graffiti. So we’re out and about all day really.
The only downside can be
the weather!”


And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:55:09 +0100, GB wrote:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

Your prejudices are showing.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 17/07/2013 09:12, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:55:09 +0100, GB wrote:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

Your prejudices are showing.


Really? Some of my best friends are from Islington...

On Wednesday 17 July 2013 08:55 GB wrote in uk.d-i-y:

This from the Islington borough magazine:



Young Islington
The chance to progress
Twins Ryan and Rhys Wenzel, 21, both completed apprenticeships with
Islington
Council, and are now employed by the Angel Business Improvement District
team.
They spoke to IslingtonLife about their roles and why they think
apprenticeships can
be a great opportunity€¦
Ryan described a typical days work. €œOur main job in the morning is to
collect the
recycling from businesses in the area. The really nice thing about this
is that the
businesses have built up good relationships with us and know our faces,
so they
stop to talk to us in the mornings. After weve done all the recycling
we have a more
pro-active afternoon €“ we go around looking for graffiti to be cleaned
or incidents
of fly-tipping. We also remove any flyposting. There are certain hot
spots that we
know to look out for. We also respond to any calls from the public
regarding flytipping or graffiti. So were out and about all day really.
The only downside can be
the weather!€�


And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair play
to them!

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:20:59 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What
a
lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair
play to them!

Quite. Not everyone has the nouse to be a theoretical phycisist and
the streets won't clean themselves. It's the people who don't value
the "rubbish collectors" that drag society down.

--
Cheers
Dave.

But somebody has to do it I guess.
I often think that people who are willing to do messy jobs get paid too
little and those who push bits of paper about get paid too much!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"GB" wrote in message
...
This from the Islington borough magazine:



Young Islington
The chance to progress
Twins Ryan and Rhys Wenzel, 21, both completed apprenticeships with
Islington
Council, and are now employed by the Angel Business Improvement District
team.
They spoke to IslingtonLife about their roles and why they think
apprenticeships can
be a great opportunity…
Ryan described a typical day’s work. “Our main job in the morning is to
collect the
recycling from businesses in the area. The really nice thing about this is
that the
businesses have built up good relationships with us and know our faces, so
they
stop to talk to us in the mornings. After we’ve done all the recycling we
have a more
pro-active afternoon – we go around looking for graffiti to be cleaned or
incidents
of fly-tipping. We also remove any flyposting. There are certain hot spots
that we
know to look out for. We also respond to any calls from the public
regarding flytipping or graffiti. So we’re out and about all day really.
The only downside can be
the weather!”


And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish collector
is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

In article , Tim Watts
writes
On Wednesday 17 July 2013 08:55 GB wrote in uk.d-i-y:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair play
to them!

The lie is that they have not undergone an apprenticeship, have not
learned any kind of trade or craft from a master. Compare with
apprentices to plumbers, electricians, carpenters, metalworkers,
blacksmiths and so on, they are simply unskilled manual labourers with
no recognised trade.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 17/07/2013 09:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
But somebody has to do it I guess.
I often think that people who are willing to do messy jobs get paid too
little and those who push bits of paper about get paid too much!

Sorry guys, but you're missing my point. There's nothing wrong with the
job itself. I entirely agree that someone has to do it, and I'd be happy
enough to do it myself (for a while at least).

However, I *strongly* object to calling it an apprenticeship, as if
these guys were being trained over a long period of time in a skilled
trade. It's the sort of job that used to involve no formal training and
now probably involves a few days, mostly on H&S aspects.

These so-called apprenticeships then get added to the statistics, as if
we were training more skilled tradesmen, such as
electricians/plumbers/tool-makers, etc. It's just a con.

I'm sorry that that was not clearer from my first post.

On 17/07/2013 09:55, fred wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
writes
On Wednesday 17 July 2013 08:55 GB wrote in uk.d-i-y:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair
play
to them!

The lie is that they have not undergone an apprenticeship, have not
learned any kind of trade or craft from a master. Compare with
apprentices to plumbers, electricians, carpenters, metalworkers,
blacksmiths and so on, they are simply unskilled manual labourers with
no recognised trade.

Thank you! That was precisely my point, although I obviously did not
make it very well.

On 07/17/2013 09:56 AM, GB wrote:


These so-called apprenticeships then get added to the statistics, as if
we were training more skilled tradesmen, such as
electricians/plumbers/tool-makers, etc. It's just a con.

I'm sorry that that was not clearer from my first post.


+1

It was perfectly clear, some just enjoy taking issue.

Apprenticeship Ap*pren"tice*ship, n.
1. The service or condition of an apprentice; the state in
which a person is gaining instruction in a trade or art,
under legal agreement.

2. The time an apprentice is serving (sometimes seven years,
as from the age of fourteen to twenty-one).

Andy C

"GB" wrote in message
...
This from the Islington borough magazine:



Young Islington
The chance to progress
Twins Ryan and Rhys Wenzel, 21, both completed apprenticeships with
Islington
Council, and are now employed by the Angel Business Improvement District
team.
They spoke to IslingtonLife about their roles and why they think
apprenticeships can
be a great opportunity…
Ryan described a typical day’s work. “Our main job in the morning is to
collect the
recycling from businesses in the area. The really nice thing about this is
that the
businesses have built up good relationships with us and know our faces, so
they
stop to talk to us in the mornings. After we’ve done all the recycling we
have a more
pro-active afternoon – we go around looking for graffiti to be cleaned or
incidents
of fly-tipping. We also remove any flyposting. There are certain hot spots
that we
know to look out for. We also respond to any calls from the public
regarding flytipping or graffiti. So we’re out and about all day really.
The only downside can be
the weather!”


And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish collector
is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

Aren't all local rags like this, though? I know our free one is full of
****e like this. I think they call them puff pieces. Tell everyone how
wonderful they are, so that they'll keep reading it, and not wonder about
how it's paid for.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-17, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:20:59 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What
a
lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair
play to them!

Quite. Not everyone has the nouse to be a theoretical phycisist and
the streets won't clean themselves. It's the people who don't value
the "rubbish collectors" that drag society down.

Hear, hear.

People who sneer at rubbish collectors and the like should ask themselves
"Would I do that job?"

that isn't the point though is it

the point is that someone has lied about the fact that they are offering an
apprenticeship in order to get this job done at sub-minimum wage

tim

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:08:42 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-17, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:20:59 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What
a
lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair
play to them!

Quite. Not everyone has the nouse to be a theoretical phycisist and
the streets won't clean themselves. It's the people who don't value
the "rubbish collectors" that drag society down.

Hear, hear.

People who sneer at rubbish collectors and the like should ask themselves
"Would I do that job?"

that isn't the point though is it

the point is that someone has lied about the fact that they are offering an
apprenticeship in order to get this job done at sub-minimum wage

Is it really below minimum wage?

I expect the real reason that these jobs are described as
"apprenticeships" is to get a subsidy.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

GB wrote:

Thank you! That was precisely my point, although I obviously did not
make it very well.

You made it well enough. But you can lead a horse to water but you can't
make it drink.

Bill

Huge wrote:

People who sneer at rubbish collectors and the like should ask themselves
"Would I do that job?"

Your entrenched political and social viewpoint has prevented you from
understanding the purpose of the original message. The OP was making the
point that young working class people are being conned into believing
that being used for unskilled work amounts to an apprenticeship. In
other words, his message was in support of the underprivileged. Your
knee-jerk reaction, once that has been understood, was extremely foolish.

Bill

GB wrote:

I'm sorry that that was not clearer from my first post.

Don't be sorry! Tell them to ******** if they can't be bothered to read
and understand.

Bill

On 17/07/2013 09:55, fred wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
writes
On Wednesday 17 July 2013 08:55 GB wrote in uk.d-i-y:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair
play
to them!

The lie is that they have not undergone an apprenticeship,...

Provided they work alongside experienced staff, gain job-specific
skills, earn a wage and study towards a related qualification (for
example NVQ Level 2 Waste Management Operations) then they have
completed an apprenticeship within the Government definition.

Colin Bignell

On 07/17/2013 02:20 PM, Nightjar wrote:

Provided they work alongside experienced staff, gain job-specific
skills, earn a wage and study towards a related qualification (for
example NVQ Level 2 Waste Management Operations) then they have
completed an apprenticeship within the Government definition.

Colin Bignell

Which could all be done in a fornight, but in no way complies with any
reasonable understanding of an apprenticeship and is therefore a con,
whether or not the government pretend so or not.

Andy C

On Wednesday, 17 July 2013 10:30:35 UTC+1, Andy Cap wrote:
On 07/17/2013 09:56 AM, GB wrote:





These so-called apprenticeships then get added to the statistics, as if

we were training more skilled tradesmen, such as

electricians/plumbers/tool-makers, etc. It's just a con.



I'm sorry that that was not clearer from my first post.





+1



It was perfectly clear, some just enjoy taking issue.



Apprenticeship Ap*pren"tice*ship, n.

1. The service or condition of an apprentice; the state in

which a person is gaining instruction in a trade or art,

under legal agreement.



2. The time an apprentice is serving (sometimes seven years,

as from the age of fourteen to twenty-one).

I didn't think it was legal to employ anyone under the age of 16 for such a scheme. I've always assumed Apprenticeships are in house adn the person isn;t sent to a 3rd party for training.

On 17/07/2013 14:20, Nightjar wrote:

The lie is that they have not undergone an apprenticeship,...

Provided they work alongside experienced staff, gain job-specific
skills, earn a wage and study towards a related qualification (for
example NVQ Level 2 Waste Management Operations) then they have
completed an apprenticeship within the Government definition.

I expect that you are right. That makes it even worse, really. This
clearly isn't an apprenticeship within the generally accepted idea of
what an apprenticeship ought to be, yet the government definition deems
it to be an apprenticeship. Talk about dumbing-down!

On Wednesday, 17 July 2013 14:01:11 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:08:42 +0100, "tim....."

wrote:





"Huge" wrote in message

...

On 2013-07-17, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:20:59 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:



And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish

collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What

a

lie!



Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair

play to them!



Quite. Not everyone has the nouse to be a theoretical phycisist and

the streets won't clean themselves. It's the people who don't value

the "rubbish collectors" that drag society down.



Hear, hear.



People who sneer at rubbish collectors and the like should ask themselves

"Would I do that job?"



that isn't the point though is it



the point is that someone has lied about the fact that they are offering an

apprenticeship in order to get this job done at sub-minimum wage



Is it really below minimum wage?



I expect the real reason that these jobs are described as

"apprenticeships" is to get a subsidy.

Could be one of the A4E tricks.

"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...
On 07/17/2013 02:20 PM, Nightjar wrote:

Provided they work alongside experienced staff, gain job-specific
skills, earn a wage and study towards a related qualification (for
example NVQ Level 2 Waste Management Operations) then they have
completed an apprenticeship within the Government definition.

Colin Bignell

Which could all be done in a fornight, but in no way complies with any
reasonable understanding of an apprenticeship and is therefore a con,
whether or not the government pretend so or not.

Andy C

Another one he
http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/news/par...provesahit.htm

On 17/07/2013 14:40, Mr Pounder wrote:

Another one he
http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/news/par...provesahit.htm

And the article makes it sound like the local councillors paid him out
of their own pockets. Excuse me whilst I vomit.

On 17/07/2013 14:17, Bill Wright wrote:
Huge wrote:

People who sneer at rubbish collectors and the like should ask themselves
"Would I do that job?"

Your entrenched political and social viewpoint has prevented you from
understanding the purpose of the original message. The OP was making the
point that young working class people are being conned into believing
that being used for unskilled work amounts to an apprenticeship. In
other words, his message was in support of the underprivileged. Your
knee-jerk reaction, once that has been understood, was extremely foolish.

Bill

Well said.

Except that actually we have corrupted the language, so that now some
relatively basic training *is* called an "apprenticeship".

There was a very similar example on "Undercover boss" the other day,
where the boss was disturbed to find the salesman in a Hyundai agency
hadn't had any basic sales training.

What *I* found more disturbing was that her job title was "Senior Sales
Executive".

This was a girl of about 22 who had been in the job for seven months.

On that basis I suppose I should be called an Intergalactic Energy
Consultant; or at very least an Interplanetary one.

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:01:11 +0100, Mark wrote:

the point is that someone has lied about the fact that they are
offering an apprenticeship in order to get this job done at
sub-minimum
wage

Is it really below minimum wage?

Apprentice rate for the first year 16-18 is £2.65/hour. After the
first year they have to be paid the minimum wage for their age, for a
17 year old that is £3.68/hour.

What we don't know is are these lads out on the street unsupervised
or is there a mentor with them? And they are doing more than just
litter picking, like graffiti removal. Takes more than a quick blast
with pressure washer to remove car enamel spray paint... People are
under estimating the job, it might not be a "traditional"
apprenticeship but times and jobs change.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 17/07/2013 14:33, GB wrote:
On 17/07/2013 14:20, Nightjar wrote:

The lie is that they have not undergone an apprenticeship,...

Provided they work alongside experienced staff, gain job-specific
skills, earn a wage and study towards a related qualification (for
example NVQ Level 2 Waste Management Operations) then they have
completed an apprenticeship within the Government definition.

I expect that you are right. That makes it even worse, really. This
clearly isn't an apprenticeship within the generally accepted idea of
what an apprenticeship ought to be, yet the government definition deems
it to be an apprenticeship. Talk about dumbing-down!

It is a Modern Apprenticeship, introduced in the 1990s to replace the
Youth Training Scheme. Any resemblance to apprenticeships as established
by the 1563 Statute of Artificers is entirely coincidental.

Colin Bignell

On 07/17/2013 02:32 PM, whisky-dave wrote:


Apprenticeship Ap*pren"tice*ship, n.

1. The service or condition of an apprentice; the state in

which a person is gaining instruction in a trade or art,

under legal agreement.



2. The time an apprentice is serving (sometimes seven years,

as from the age of fourteen to twenty-one).

I didn't think it was legal to employ anyone under the age of 16 for such a scheme. I've always assumed Apprenticeships are in house adn the person isn;t sent to a 3rd party for training.




True, it's a somewhat ancient definition but you get the idea ! ;-)

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday 17 July 2013 08:55 GB wrote in uk.d-i-y:

This from the Islington borough magazine:



Young Islington
The chance to progress
Twins Ryan and Rhys Wenzel, 21, both completed apprenticeships with
Islington
Council, and are now employed by the Angel Business Improvement District
team.
They spoke to IslingtonLife about their roles and why they think
apprenticeships can
be a great opportunity.
Ryan described a typical day's work. "Our main job in the morning is to
collect the
recycling from businesses in the area. The really nice thing about this
is that the
businesses have built up good relationships with us and know our faces,
so they
stop to talk to us in the mornings. After we've done all the recycling
we have a more
pro-active afternoon - we go around looking for graffiti to be cleaned
or incidents
of fly-tipping. We also remove any flyposting. There are certain hot
spots that we
know to look out for. We also respond to any calls from the public
regarding flytipping or graffiti. So we're out and about all day really.
The only downside can be
the weather!"


And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair play
to them!

Apprenticeship implies learnig a trade & perhaps progressing to somethoing
better.
Going to night school or day release. Technical college (Do any remain?)
Sounds like these poor buggers are in a dead end job.
Essential yes but this is not a job you want to be doing for the rest of
your life.

I can see why the OP is ****ed off.

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:

People who sneer at rubbish collectors and the like should ask themselves
"Would I do that job?"

Your entrenched political and social viewpoint has prevented you from
understanding the purpose of the original message. The OP was making the
point that young working class people are being conned into believing that
being used for unskilled work amounts to an apprenticeship. In other
words, his message was in support of the underprivileged. Your knee-jerk
reaction, once that has been understood, was extremely foolish.

Bill

Exactly so.
They deserve better than this.

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
GB wrote:

Thank you! That was precisely my point, although I obviously did not make
it very well.

You made it well enough. But you can lead a horse to water but you can't
make it drink.

Bill

Another big con is these NVQs.
An NVQ trained "electrician" came to wire my PVpanels.
I ended up going on the roof myself to wiret hem up.

I don't blame the poor bugger but I blame the system whereby there seems
tobe virtually no apprenticeships available.

The old Electricity Boards trained thousands. All the training schools
disappeared when they were privatised.

"Mr Pounder" wrote in message
...

"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...
On 07/17/2013 02:20 PM, Nightjar wrote:

Provided they work alongside experienced staff, gain job-specific
skills, earn a wage and study towards a related qualification (for
example NVQ Level 2 Waste Management Operations) then they have
completed an apprenticeship within the Government definition.

Colin Bignell

Which could all be done in a fornight, but in no way complies with any
reasonable understanding of an apprenticeship and is therefore a con,
whether or not the government pretend so or not.

Andy C

Another one he
http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/news/par...provesahit.htm
That is truly appalling.

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 06:32:20 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

I've always assumed Apprenticeships are in house adn the person isn;t
sent to a 3rd party for training.

Mostly in house and on the job under a mentor but these days there is
normally an element of formal training at college as well. Also for
todays official recognition that the placement is an apprenticeship
there will be involvement from an external body to verify that the
relevant training/skills have been gained by the apprentice.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wednesday, 17 July 2013 14:20:00 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 17/07/2013 09:55, fred wrote:

In article , Tim Watts

writes

On Wednesday 17 July 2013 08:55 GB wrote in uk.d-i-y:



And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish

collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What a lie!



Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair

play

to them!



The lie is that they have not undergone an apprenticeship,...



Provided they work alongside experienced staff, gain job-specific

skills, earn a wage and study towards a related qualification (for

example NVQ Level 2 Waste Management Operations) then they have

completed an apprenticeship within the Government definition.

Which means their friends earning large saleries to do little for anyone else in the long term.

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:23:12 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Apprenticeship implies learnig a trade & perhaps progressing to
somethoing better.
Going to night school or day release. Technical college (Do any remain?)

These days, some FE colleges do a good job with apprentices.

SWMBO is in charge of engineering at a local college, and she is looking
to get more employeres involved in 'proper' apprenticeships.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:30:25 +0100, harryagain wrote:


"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
GB wrote:

Thank you! That was precisely my point, although I obviously did not
make it very well.

You made it well enough. But you can lead a horse to water but you
can't make it drink.

Bill

Another big con is these NVQs.
An NVQ trained "electrician" came to wire my PVpanels.
I ended up going on the roof myself to wiret hem up.

"Not Very Qualified".




--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:30:25 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
GB wrote:

Thank you! That was precisely my point, although I obviously did not make
it very well.

You made it well enough. But you can lead a horse to water but you can't
make it drink.

Bill

Another big con is these NVQs.
An NVQ trained "electrician" came to wire my PVpanels.
I ended up going on the roof myself to wiret hem up.

I don't blame the poor bugger but I blame the system whereby there seems
tobe virtually no apprenticeships available.

The old Electricity Boards trained thousands. All the training schools
disappeared when they were privatised.

Northern Powergrid still have training schools.

--
Frank Erskine

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:55:09 AM UTC+1, GB wrote:
This from the Islington borough magazine:
....are now employed by the Angel Business Improvement District
team.

I thought this sort of job was now done unpaid by offenders on community service schemes, or graduates on Jobseeker New Deal.

Owain

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:55:09 AM UTC+1, GB wrote:
This from the Islington borough magazine:
....are now employed by the Angel Business Improvement District
team.

I thought this sort of job was now done unpaid by offenders on community
service schemes, or graduates on Jobseeker New Deal.


I seem to remember the employees at the local council kicking up **** about
the community service *******.
Seems that they were doing the council workers out of a job.
I do see their point.

wrote:
On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:55:09 AM UTC+1, GB wrote:
This from the Islington borough magazine:
....are now employed by the Angel Business Improvement District
team.

I thought this sort of job was now done unpaid by offenders on community service schemes, or graduates on Jobseeker New Deal.

Owain

Cleaning up the mess left by fast food customers is actually my job. Or
so it seems.

Bill

In message , tim.....
writes

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-17, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:20:59 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

And so it goes on, pretending that training to become a rubbish
collector is the same as training for a really skilled job. What
a
lie!

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair
play to them!

Quite. Not everyone has the nouse to be a theoretical phycisist and
the streets won't clean themselves. It's the people who don't value
the "rubbish collectors" that drag society down.

Hear, hear.

People who sneer at rubbish collectors and the like should ask themselves
"Would I do that job?"

that isn't the point though is it

the point is that someone has lied about the fact that they are
offering an apprenticeship in order to get this job done at sub-minimum
wage

tim
What's wrong with being an apprentice rubbish collector?
--
bert