I had decided to go with block board for the loft door because that is
what the current (too small) door is made of and the blocks are good to
screw into end on.

However block board seems about as common as rocking horse droppings - I
understand that it is hard/impossible to get some that is FSC certified so
the normal merchants are prevented from supplying by their own rules.

One alternative is to make a door out of insulation clad in timber and MDF
but I am time and resource limited.

The big problem with other composite boards is the lack of strength if you
screw into the end.

So I was wondering if there were any inserts - a bit like wall plugs
perhaps - which could be sunk into the end of the board to provide a
stronger fixing.

Any other strengthening options?

Gate style hinges bolted through could work, but might be a little less
attractive to look at.

Cheers

Dave R

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
I had decided to go with block board for the loft door because that is
what the current (too small) door is made of and the blocks are good to
screw into end on.

However block board seems about as common as rocking horse droppings - I
understand that it is hard/impossible to get some that is FSC certified so
the normal merchants are prevented from supplying by their own rules.

One alternative is to make a door out of insulation clad in timber and MDF
but I am time and resource limited.

The big problem with other composite boards is the lack of strength if you
screw into the end.

So I was wondering if there were any inserts - a bit like wall plugs
perhaps - which could be sunk into the end of the board to provide a
stronger fixing.

Any other strengthening options?

Gate style hinges bolted through could work, but might be a little less
attractive to look at.

Cheers

Dave R

Drill a blind hole in from the back of the door to 80% depth
perpendicular to where you want the screw hole and about 20mm in from
the edge Insert a hardwood dowel and trim off flush. Drill a pilot hole
for the screw into the edge of the mdf as far as the dowel. This will
stop the mdf de-laminating. Insert a 30mm long screw so it passes
through the centre of the dowel.
If you have a number to do, making a jig from some scrap metal angle
with holes in the correct places saves lot of marking out.

On 16/07/2013 12:59, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
I had decided to go with block board for the loft door because that is
what the current (too small) door is made of and the blocks are good to
screw into end on.

However block board seems about as common as rocking horse droppings - I
understand that it is hard/impossible to get some that is FSC certified so
the normal merchants are prevented from supplying by their own rules.

One alternative is to make a door out of insulation clad in timber and MDF
but I am time and resource limited.

The big problem with other composite boards is the lack of strength if you
screw into the end.

So I was wondering if there were any inserts - a bit like wall plugs
perhaps - which could be sunk into the end of the board to provide a
stronger fixing.

Any other strengthening options?

Metal angle screwed into the top face or U channel bolted through with
tapped holes to take bolts holding the hinges?

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:13:38 +0100, Bob Minchin wrote:

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
I had decided to go with block board for the loft door because that is
what the current (too small) door is made of and the blocks are good to
screw into end on.

However block board seems about as common as rocking horse droppings -
I understand that it is hard/impossible to get some that is FSC
certified so the normal merchants are prevented from supplying by their
own rules.

One alternative is to make a door out of insulation clad in timber and
MDF but I am time and resource limited.

The big problem with other composite boards is the lack of strength if
you screw into the end.

So I was wondering if there were any inserts - a bit like wall plugs
perhaps - which could be sunk into the end of the board to provide a
stronger fixing.

Any other strengthening options?

Gate style hinges bolted through could work, but might be a little less
attractive to look at.

Cheers

Dave R

Drill a blind hole in from the back of the door to 80% depth
perpendicular to where you want the screw hole and about 20mm in from
the edge Insert a hardwood dowel and trim off flush. Drill a pilot hole
for the screw into the edge of the mdf as far as the dowel. This will
stop the mdf de-laminating. Insert a 30mm long screw so it passes
through the centre of the dowel.
If you have a number to do, making a jig from some scrap metal angle
with holes in the correct places saves lot of marking out.

Thanks - that sounds like a possible plan.

Still having perturbations about using MDF - rough aperture size is 1200 *
630 so it may be a bit large for a sheet to remain rigid at less than 25mm
thickness which is pretty heavy.

I have read that blockboard is lighter that MDF and plywood so if I had to
go to 25mm I might use some really old 25mm blockboard which I have in
stock but this seems like overkill.

Blockboard is available on t'Internet at £40-£50 a sheet but delivery is
about another £30 so this is pushing the price up a lot.

However £70 for a loft door may in fact be quite reasonable all things
considered.

Cheers

Dave R

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:17:55 +0100, Nightjar wrote:

On 16/07/2013 12:59, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
I had decided to go with block board for the loft door because that is
what the current (too small) door is made of and the blocks are good to
screw into end on.

However block board seems about as common as rocking horse droppings -
I understand that it is hard/impossible to get some that is FSC
certified so the normal merchants are prevented from supplying by their
own rules.

One alternative is to make a door out of insulation clad in timber and
MDF but I am time and resource limited.

The big problem with other composite boards is the lack of strength if
you screw into the end.

So I was wondering if there were any inserts - a bit like wall plugs
perhaps - which could be sunk into the end of the board to provide a
stronger fixing.

Any other strengthening options?

Metal angle screwed into the top face or U channel bolted through with
tapped holes to take bolts holding the hinges?

Colin Bignell

Thanks - another good though.

However please see my reply to Bob.

Cheers

David

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:13:38 +0100, Bob Minchin wrote:

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
I had decided to go with block board for the loft door because that is
what the current (too small) door is made of and the blocks are good to
screw into end on.

However block board seems about as common as rocking horse droppings -
I understand that it is hard/impossible to get some that is FSC
certified so the normal merchants are prevented from supplying by their
own rules.

One alternative is to make a door out of insulation clad in timber and
MDF but I am time and resource limited.

The big problem with other composite boards is the lack of strength if
you screw into the end.

So I was wondering if there were any inserts - a bit like wall plugs
perhaps - which could be sunk into the end of the board to provide a
stronger fixing.

Any other strengthening options?

Gate style hinges bolted through could work, but might be a little less
attractive to look at.

Cheers

Dave R

Drill a blind hole in from the back of the door to 80% depth
perpendicular to where you want the screw hole and about 20mm in from
the edge Insert a hardwood dowel and trim off flush. Drill a pilot hole
for the screw into the edge of the mdf as far as the dowel. This will
stop the mdf de-laminating. Insert a 30mm long screw so it passes
through the centre of the dowel.
If you have a number to do, making a jig from some scrap metal angle
with holes in the correct places saves lot of marking out.

Thanks - that sounds like a possible plan.

Still having perturbations about using MDF - rough aperture size is 1200 *
630 so it may be a bit large for a sheet to remain rigid at less than 25mm
thickness which is pretty heavy.

I have read that blockboard is lighter that MDF and plywood so if I had to
go to 25mm I might use some really old 25mm blockboard which I have in
stock but this seems like overkill.

Blockboard is available on t'Internet at £40-£50 a sheet but delivery is
about another £30 so this is pushing the price up a lot.

However £70 for a loft door may in fact be quite reasonable all things
considered.

Cheers

Dave R

MDF is crap really especially when considered on a strength to weight
ratio. Depends on how much woodwork you want to do. A rail and stile
panel door made from real wood and 5mm ply will be strong and light with
some decorative features to give interest to a huge blank area.
You could also make a torsion box construction with insulation inside.
All depends on your workshop facilities and skill levels.
Blockboard ain't that clever either. Sods law will put voids just where
you want to put fixings and it is still heavy - to my mind 25mm is way
too thick.
Google for 'sagulator' to give an idea of the deflection of materials
under their own weight.

David.WE.Roberts expressed precisely :
Gate style hinges bolted through could work, but might be a little less
attractive to look at.

Could you not countersink the bolts holes on the face, fill and paint?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 16/07/13 14:51, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
David.WE.Roberts expressed precisely :
Gate style hinges bolted through could work, but might be a little less
attractive to look at.

Could you not countersink the bolts holes on the face, fill and paint?

drill oversize holes.
Fill with car body filler.
When set drill with correct size holes.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

"David.WE.Roberts" wrote in message
...
I had decided to go with block board for the loft door because that is
what the current (too small) door is made of and the blocks are good to
screw into end on.

However block board seems about as common as rocking horse droppings - I
understand that it is hard/impossible to get some that is FSC certified so
the normal merchants are prevented from supplying by their own rules.

One alternative is to make a door out of insulation clad in timber and MDF
but I am time and resource limited.

The big problem with other composite boards is the lack of strength if you
screw into the end.

So I was wondering if there were any inserts - a bit like wall plugs
perhaps - which could be sunk into the end of the board to provide a
stronger fixing.

Any other strengthening options?

Gate style hinges bolted through could work, but might be a little less
attractive to look at.

Cheers

Dave R

Make up a timber frame and secure the MDF to that.
If you make the frame deep enough (ie boxlike) it can incorporate
insulation too.

You can screw the hinges to the frame.

Or don't have hinges, just have it loose (pushing out upwards) and resting
on beads
Don't forget to incorporate draught strip.

On 16/07/2013 17:34, harryagain wrote:
"David.WE.Roberts" wrote in message
...
I had decided to go with block board for the loft door because that is
what the current (too small) door is made of and the blocks are good to
screw into end on.

However block board seems about as common as rocking horse droppings - I
understand that it is hard/impossible to get some that is FSC certified so
the normal merchants are prevented from supplying by their own rules.

One alternative is to make a door out of insulation clad in timber and MDF
but I am time and resource limited.

The big problem with other composite boards is the lack of strength if you
screw into the end.

So I was wondering if there were any inserts - a bit like wall plugs
perhaps - which could be sunk into the end of the board to provide a
stronger fixing.

Any other strengthening options?

Gate style hinges bolted through could work, but might be a little less
attractive to look at.

Cheers

Dave R

Make up a timber frame and secure the MDF to that.
If you make the frame deep enough (ie boxlike) it can incorporate
insulation too.

You can screw the hinges to the frame.

Or don't have hinges, just have it loose (pushing out upwards) and resting
on beads
Don't forget to incorporate draught strip.


Or use laminated pine board. It's only that and blockboard that will
take a screw and be light enough to hold firm when it drops down by
accident.
The other solution is to make a wooden frame as the door out of 100 x
50, fill it with insulation, and hardboard back and front. Build a frame
from the same material to take the door and fit the whole thing to the
joists. Can't see a role for mdf at all really