I see that the gov'mint are now openly admitting that by 2015, we are likely
to be suffering a shortfall in generating capacity to the point where will
not have enough to satisfy peak demand. They are also saying that the whole
situation could be resolved by fracking the shale gas reserves that they
have now found, both under the land and the sea. Apparently, there is enough
to potentially feed our needs for 150 years, and to make the country a deal
of money as well to get us dug out of the almost bankrupt **** that we are
in.

Given that they've been doing it for some time in the States now, and it has
kick-started their economy, as well as giving consumers and business the
cheapest gas that they've had for years, and as an added bonus, their CO2
emissions are the lowest they've been for the last 20 years, you'd think
that it would be a no-brainer that we did the same here. With the emissions
reductions, even the greenies should be happy. But no. Friends of the Earth
have vowed to tie the government up legally for years and years to prevent
it happening, with a view to getting it declared so dangerous as to ensure
that there is a ban on it for all time. The bloody fools are still squawking
that the future of British energy is with renewables like wind. Why can they
not see that even if you cover every spare acre with windmills, it still
won't produce the power that we need, and a considerable amount of spinning
reserve from conventional sources will still be needed. The figures are very
simple to understand, whether you are technically minded or not, and they
just don't add up. I want to scream in their stupid faces, but I know that
they would just stick that half-arsed sad smile on their clocks, and start
trotting out their dopey philosophy in that 'oh-so-calm' way that they have
that makes you want to hit them. Hard.

I sincerely hope that when the power starts to go out, folk remember who
these people are, and realise that but for them, we'd have enough
electricity and be able to afford to heat our homes. Perhaps they should be
the first ones to lose their power, to give them time to reflect on why
they've got nothing better to do than to interfere on behalf of people who
don't actually give a stuff about their dumb policies.

Rant over ... :-\

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

I sincerely hope that when the power starts to go out, folk remember who
these people are, and realise that but for them, we'd have enough
electricity and be able to afford to heat our homes. Perhaps they should
be the first ones to lose their power, to give them time to reflect on
why they've got nothing better to do than to interfere on behalf of
people who don't actually give a stuff about their dumb policies.

Rant over ... :-\

But it was a splendid rant.

Bill

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
I see that the gov'mint are now openly admitting that by 2015, we are
likely to be suffering a shortfall in generating capacity to the point
where will not have enough to satisfy peak demand. They are also saying
that the whole situation could be resolved by fracking the shale gas
reserves that they have now found, both under the land and the sea.
Apparently, there is enough to potentially feed our needs for 150 years,
and to make the country a deal of money as well to get us dug out of the
almost bankrupt **** that we are in.

Given that they've been doing it for some time in the States now, and it
has kick-started their economy, as well as giving consumers and business
the cheapest gas that they've had for years, and as an added bonus, their
CO2 emissions are the lowest they've been for the last 20 years, you'd
think that it would be a no-brainer that we did the same here. With the
emissions reductions, even the greenies should be happy. But no. Friends
of the Earth have vowed to tie the government up legally for years and
years to prevent it happening, with a view to getting it declared so
dangerous as to ensure that there is a ban on it for all time. The bloody
fools are still squawking that the future of British energy is with
renewables like wind. Why can they not see that even if you cover every
spare acre with windmills, it still won't produce the power that we need,
and a considerable amount of spinning reserve from conventional sources
will still be needed. The figures are very simple to understand, whether
you are technically minded or not, and they just don't add up. I want to
scream in their stupid faces, but I know that they would just stick that
half-arsed sad smile on their clocks, and start trotting out their dopey
philosophy in that 'oh-so-calm' way that they have that makes you want to
hit them. Hard.

I sincerely hope that when the power starts to go out, folk remember who
these people are, and realise that but for them, we'd have enough
electricity and be able to afford to heat our homes. Perhaps they should
be the first ones to lose their power, to give them time to reflect on why
they've got nothing better to do than to interfere on behalf of people who
don't actually give a stuff about their dumb policies.

Rant over ... :-\

Arfa

Early days yet re. how much gas there is.
There have been some big disapointments elsewhere when they actually started
drilling.
Also they needed lots more holes than originally thought.

Interesting map shows where the gas might be.
The earlier ones showing possible gas fields in the South of England have
disappeared. Could it be they don't want to drill in the "leafy suburbs?"
Also the gas fields stop at the coast.
Could it be they don't want the added expense of off-shore drilling?

I expect the *******s will want to extract it and export it through existing
pipelines as quick as possible and make a quick buck. No thought of setting
up a soveriegn wealth fund as did Norway with North Sea oil/gas.
We should husband it carefully, too precious to fritter away.

We need to cut these people off that don't want wind turbines as well.

Now calm down, Nuclear is the way to go. actually the fracing or whatever
its called is mainly a problem in the states as there is very little
regulation. Fly by night companies with naff quality control on their well
cladding have set up shop and as many of the curved holes go under other
persons land when the cladding leaks the gas can come up and get into the
water and has to be removed, and of course they do not stump up for this
and hence you get a lot of litigation and chaos. There is also the sad fact
that some of the chemicals they use over there are not known to the public
as they are considered a trade secret by the company concerned, which means
that people only have their word for it that its safe to use at all.
Hopefully we need to learn from that and take steps to get it regulated
properly and sort out any legal problems of gas leakage into water people
use before they start.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
I see that the gov'mint are now openly admitting that by 2015, we are
likely to be suffering a shortfall in generating capacity to the point
where will not have enough to satisfy peak demand. They are also saying
that the whole situation could be resolved by fracking the shale gas
reserves that they have now found, both under the land and the sea.
Apparently, there is enough to potentially feed our needs for 150 years,
and to make the country a deal of money as well to get us dug out of the
almost bankrupt **** that we are in.

Given that they've been doing it for some time in the States now, and it
has kick-started their economy, as well as giving consumers and business
the cheapest gas that they've had for years, and as an added bonus, their
CO2 emissions are the lowest they've been for the last 20 years, you'd
think that it would be a no-brainer that we did the same here. With the
emissions reductions, even the greenies should be happy. But no. Friends
of the Earth have vowed to tie the government up legally for years and
years to prevent it happening, with a view to getting it declared so
dangerous as to ensure that there is a ban on it for all time. The bloody
fools are still squawking that the future of British energy is with
renewables like wind. Why can they not see that even if you cover every
spare acre with windmills, it still won't produce the power that we need,
and a considerable amount of spinning reserve from conventional sources
will still be needed. The figures are very simple to understand, whether
you are technically minded or not, and they just don't add up. I want to
scream in their stupid faces, but I know that they would just stick that
half-arsed sad smile on their clocks, and start trotting out their dopey
philosophy in that 'oh-so-calm' way that they have that makes you want to
hit them. Hard.

I sincerely hope that when the power starts to go out, folk remember who
these people are, and realise that but for them, we'd have enough
electricity and be able to afford to heat our homes. Perhaps they should
be the first ones to lose their power, to give them time to reflect on why
they've got nothing better to do than to interfere on behalf of people who
don't actually give a stuff about their dumb policies.

Rant over ... :-\

Arfa

On 02/07/2013 07:17, harryagain wrote:

We need to cut these people off that don't want wind turbines as well.



Why?
there is always enough standby generation to cope with zero wind.
Those of us that don't want wind but do want electricity pay for it.

Those that want wind don't even pay for the cost of the wind generation.

On 02/07/2013 07:17, harryagain wrote:
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
I see that the gov'mint are now openly admitting that by 2015, we are
likely to be suffering a shortfall in generating capacity to the point
where will not have enough to satisfy peak demand. They are also saying
that the whole situation could be resolved by fracking the shale gas
reserves that they have now found, both under the land and the sea.
Apparently, there is enough to potentially feed our needs for 150 years,
and to make the country a deal of money as well to get us dug out of the
almost bankrupt **** that we are in.

Given that they've been doing it for some time in the States now, and it
has kick-started their economy, as well as giving consumers and business
the cheapest gas that they've had for years, and as an added bonus, their
CO2 emissions are the lowest they've been for the last 20 years, you'd
think that it would be a no-brainer that we did the same here. With the
emissions reductions, even the greenies should be happy. But no. Friends
of the Earth have vowed to tie the government up legally for years and
years to prevent it happening, with a view to getting it declared so
dangerous as to ensure that there is a ban on it for all time. The bloody
fools are still squawking that the future of British energy is with
renewables like wind. Why can they not see that even if you cover every
spare acre with windmills, it still won't produce the power that we need,
and a considerable amount of spinning reserve from conventional sources
will still be needed. The figures are very simple to understand, whether
you are technically minded or not, and they just don't add up. I want to
scream in their stupid faces, but I know that they would just stick that
half-arsed sad smile on their clocks, and start trotting out their dopey
philosophy in that 'oh-so-calm' way that they have that makes you want to
hit them. Hard.

I sincerely hope that when the power starts to go out, folk remember who
these people are, and realise that but for them, we'd have enough
electricity and be able to afford to heat our homes. Perhaps they should
be the first ones to lose their power, to give them time to reflect on why
they've got nothing better to do than to interfere on behalf of people who
don't actually give a stuff about their dumb policies.

Rant over ... :-\

Arfa

Early days yet re. how much gas there is.

Indeed. These are the P90 figures, which means there is a 90% chance of
them being right and is the same basis as is used for estimating oil
reserves. Overall, oil fields actually produce close to the P50 figure
and, if the shale gas fields achieve that, there would be 60% more than
estimated.

There have been some big disapointments elsewhere when they actually started
drilling.

Mainly, according to the report, because the techniques for estimating
were fairly crude to begin with. One reason the figures have gone up i
because the techniques have been refined.

Also they needed lots more holes than originally thought.

Interesting map shows where the gas might be.
The earlier ones showing possible gas fields in the South of England have
disappeared. Could it be they don't want to drill in the "leafy suburbs?"

The study only looked at one specific area of carboniferous shale, known
as the Bowland-Hodder shale, so that is all that is shown on the map of
*this particular study*. However, if you look at the original report,
you will see that the Jurassic Weald basin is marked as 'currently being
assessed'. Licensed exploration sites are also shown in many parts of
the country, with plenty in SE England, one of which is being drilled in
West Sussex as we speak.


Also the gas fields stop at the coast.
Could it be they don't want the added expense of off-shore drilling?...

For the most part, the marine shale fields produce conventional oil instead.

Colin Bignell

On 02/07/2013 03:45, Bill Wright wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:

I sincerely hope that when the power starts to go out, folk remember
who these people are, and realise that but for them, we'd have enough
electricity and be able to afford to heat our homes. Perhaps they
should be the first ones to lose their power, to give them time to
reflect on why they've got nothing better to do than to interfere on
behalf of people who don't actually give a stuff about their dumb
policies.

Rant over ... :-\

But it was a splendid rant.

Bill

+1 !!!

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
I see that the gov'mint are now openly admitting that by 2015, we are
likely to be suffering a shortfall in generating capacity to the point
where will not have enough to satisfy peak demand. They are also saying
that the whole situation could be resolved by fracking the shale gas
reserves that they have now found, both under the land and the sea.
Apparently, there is enough to potentially feed our needs for 150 years,
and to make the country a deal of money as well to get us dug out of the
almost bankrupt **** that we are in.

Given that they've been doing it for some time in the States now, and it
has kick-started their economy, as well as giving consumers and business
the cheapest gas that they've had for years, and as an added bonus, their
CO2 emissions are the lowest they've been for the last 20 years, you'd
think that it would be a no-brainer that we did the same here. With the
emissions reductions, even the greenies should be happy. But no. Friends
of the Earth have vowed to tie the government up legally for years and
years to prevent it happening, with a view to getting it declared so
dangerous as to ensure that there is a ban on it for all time. The bloody
fools are still squawking that the future of British energy is with
renewables like wind. Why can they not see that even if you cover every
spare acre with windmills, it still won't produce the power that we need,
and a considerable amount of spinning reserve from conventional sources
will still be needed. The figures are very simple to understand, whether
you are technically minded or not, and they just don't add up. I want to
scream in their stupid faces, but I know that they would just stick that
half-arsed sad smile on their clocks, and start trotting out their dopey
philosophy in that 'oh-so-calm' way that they have that makes you want to
hit them. Hard.

I sincerely hope that when the power starts to go out, folk remember who
these people are, and realise that but for them, we'd have enough
electricity and be able to afford to heat our homes. Perhaps they should
be the first ones to lose their power, to give them time to reflect on
why they've got nothing better to do than to interfere on behalf of
people who don't actually give a stuff about their dumb policies.

Rant over ... :-\

Arfa

Early days yet re. how much gas there is.
There have been some big disapointments elsewhere when they actually
started drilling.
Also they needed lots more holes than originally thought.

Interesting map shows where the gas might be.
The earlier ones showing possible gas fields in the South of England have
disappeared. Could it be they don't want to drill in the "leafy suburbs?"
Also the gas fields stop at the coast.
Could it be they don't want the added expense of off-shore drilling?


OK. Well I know it comes from the MoS but here's a quote from Nigel Smith,
co-author of the British Geological Survey's report :

"there is 'a lot more gas' offshore in the Irish and North Seas - perhaps a
further ten times as much. Some of this could be exploited without the need
for offshore drilling platforms, by drilling horizontally from sites on the
land"

As to the locations, it also says that geologists are to publish their
assessment later in the year of the reserves in the Wessex Basin (Kent to
Dorset), Somerset, South Wales, Scotland and County Fermanagh



I expect the *******s will want to extract it and export it through
existing pipelines as quick as possible and make a quick buck. No thought
of setting up a soveriegn wealth fund as did Norway with North Sea
oil/gas.
We should husband it carefully, too precious to fritter away.

We need to cut these people off that don't want wind turbines as well.


But what is the point of them ? They don't produce hardly any electricity in
the grand scheme of things. They can't, and never will be able to in the
quantities that they could realistically be built in. It is a flawed
concept, let alone technology, for mass reliable power generation, when it's
needed. The energy budget to build, place, maintain, and decommission them,
let alone the monetary cost, must be astronomical, but somehow, their
advocates seem to manage to quietly ignore this in their arguments. At least
once the initial disturbance drilling the well is over, it just quietly gets
on with producing gas that is readily used by existing generation plant,
with little modification, as I understand it. A while back, I saw a
programme on the TV about well drilling teams in the U.S. and the
disturbance to the area local to a drill site, only lasted a couple of
weeks. I thought the whole thing was very impressive.

In case anyone wants to look at the article (yes, I know everyone will
scream that it must be lies because it's The Mail but anyway ...)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch%5Eheadlines

and

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...fracking-.html

Arfa

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Now calm down, Nuclear is the way to go. actually the fracing or whatever
its called is mainly a problem in the states as there is very little
regulation. Fly by night companies with naff quality control on their
well cladding have set up shop and as many of the curved holes go under
other persons land when the cladding leaks the gas can come up and get
into the water and has to be removed, and of course they do not stump up
for this and hence you get a lot of litigation and chaos. There is also
the sad fact that some of the chemicals they use over there are not known
to the public as they are considered a trade secret by the company
concerned, which means that people only have their word for it that its
safe to use at all.
Hopefully we need to learn from that and take steps to get it regulated
properly and sort out any legal problems of gas leakage into water people
use before they start.
Brian


Of course nuclear is the way to go, but that's never going to happen either,
is it ? I just get sick of bleeding heart 'liberals' and students (ha!)
barely out of nappies, picking up on everything slightly contentious and
campaigning against it 'on my behalf'. We had a long-running campaign in my
area over the local airfield wanting to replace one of their existing grass
runways with a concrete one. You wouldn't believe all of the nonsense that
the campaigners came up with. They even came round our village knocking on
doors trying to tell us that it was going to result in increased air traffic
and noise - oh yes, and of course, "pollution" - in the village, due to all
the extra flights it would produce. Except that the arrival and departure
route is across miles and miles of open countryside, that doesn't pass over
any villages, let alone even close to ours. I sent the guy away with a flea
in his ear, and told him and his cronies to stop lying to people just to try
and get it stopped because *they* didn't want it.

As I've said before, if it keeps the lights on, they can build a nuke down
the road from me, and if they could frack gas anywhere near here, then bring
it on. This whole bloody nonsense of running out of power like some banana
republic needs addressing and it needs doing now. It's not about individual
lives being affected, it's about the bigger picture, and the sooner the
government realises that and puts their foot down instead of pandering to
all these barmy-arsed pressure groups who need to get a life, the better for
the silent majority ...

Arfa

On 02/07/13 10:19, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Now calm down, Nuclear is the way to go. actually the fracing or
whatever its called is mainly a problem in the states as there is
very little regulation. Fly by night companies with naff quality
control on their well cladding have set up shop and as many of the
curved holes go under other persons land when the cladding leaks the
gas can come up and get into the water and has to be removed, and of
course they do not stump up for this and hence you get a lot of
litigation and chaos. There is also the sad fact that some of the
chemicals they use over there are not known to the public as they are
considered a trade secret by the company concerned, which means that
people only have their word for it that its safe to use at all.
Hopefully we need to learn from that and take steps to get it
regulated properly and sort out any legal problems of gas leakage
into water people use before they start.
Brian


Of course nuclear is the way to go, but that's never going to happen
either, is it ? I just get sick of bleeding heart 'liberals' and
students (ha!) barely out of nappies, picking up on everything
slightly contentious and campaigning against it 'on my behalf'. We had
a long-running campaign in my area over the local airfield wanting to
replace one of their existing grass runways with a concrete one. You
wouldn't believe all of the nonsense that the campaigners came up
with. They even came round our village knocking on doors trying to
tell us that it was going to result in increased air traffic and noise
- oh yes, and of course, "pollution" - in the village, due to all the
extra flights it would produce. Except that the arrival and departure
route is across miles and miles of open countryside, that doesn't pass
over any villages, let alone even close to ours. I sent the guy away
with a flea in his ear, and told him and his cronies to stop lying to
people just to try and get it stopped because *they* didn't want it.

As I've said before, if it keeps the lights on, they can build a nuke
down the road from me, and if they could frack gas anywhere near here,
then bring it on. This whole bloody nonsense of running out of power
like some banana republic needs addressing and it needs doing now.
It's not about individual lives being affected, it's about the bigger
picture, and the sooner the government realises that and puts their
foot down instead of pandering to all these barmy-arsed pressure
groups who need to get a life, the better for the silent majority ...

Arfa


Amen to that.

Nuclear and fracking are much less evil than solar panels and windmills.

No one does cost benefit analysis any more.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 02/07/2013 03:45, Bill Wright wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:

I sincerely hope that when the power starts to go out, folk remember
who these people are, and realise that but for them, we'd have enough
electricity and be able to afford to heat our homes. Perhaps they
should be the first ones to lose their power, to give them time to
reflect on why they've got nothing better to do than to interfere on
behalf of people who don't actually give a stuff about their dumb
policies.

Rant over ... :-\

But it was a splendid rant.

Bill

+1 !!!


Why thank you, kind sirs ... !! :-)

Arfa

In article ,
"Arfa Daily" wrote:

.... if it keeps the lights on, they can build a nuke down the road from me,

Ditto! (With knobs on, if it were British firms building it .... but it
f. well wouldn't be!)

and if they could frack gas anywhere near here, then bring it on.

No way! The whole fracking scenario stinks to high heaven, can't you
see that? It stinks of get-rich-quick merchants (including many
politicians), who have not a scintilla of interest in this country, nor
in the environment, nor in any possible consequences in a few years time
(when things will have to "fixed"). The fracking industry has been
created, and is run by, super-national corporations and similar, much
murkier, entities.


This whole bloody nonsense of running out of power like some banana
republic needs addressing and it needs doing now. ....

Ditto. Why hasn't any effort been devoted to running coal-fired power
stations in a clean way? I hear that "we" are [irretrievably] disabling
the coal burning capacities in favour of "bio-mass"[1] fuel ... which
will have to be imported at unbelievable expense, and which itself has
massive effect on the environment.

John

[1] Oooh!! It's got a "bio-" in it!! It _must_ be environmentally
friendly!! PAH!

On 02/07/2013 08:30, Brian Gaff wrote:
Now calm down, Nuclear is the way to go. actually the fracing or whatever
its called is mainly a problem in the states as there is very little
regulation. Fly by night companies with naff quality control on their well
cladding have set up shop and as many of the curved holes go under other
persons land when the cladding leaks the gas can come up and get into the
water and has to be removed, and of course they do not stump up for this
and hence you get a lot of litigation and chaos. There is also the sad fact

It will likely occur here too unless the government is careful about who
and how they allow fracking to go ahead.

that some of the chemicals they use over there are not known to the public
as they are considered a trade secret by the company concerned, which means
that people only have their word for it that its safe to use at all.
Hopefully we need to learn from that and take steps to get it regulated
properly and sort out any legal problems of gas leakage into water people
use before they start.
Brian

Interesting that considering it is only restricted prospecting trials at
present I have seen some of the kit and more of the chemicals on road
transport in the UK recently. It would undoubtedly lower the price of
gas if it came onstream, but we also need some more nuclear power
stations in the longer term if the lights are to stay on.

I suspect that the UK being so built up compared to the USA will result
in some considerable pain and suffering for the neighbours as cack
handed smash and grab raids occur to get the easy gas, bank the profits
offshore and leave the mess for someone else to clean up afterwards.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tuesday 02 July 2013 10:19 Arfa Daily wrote in uk.d-i-y:

This whole bloody nonsense of running out of power like some
banana republic needs addressing and it needs doing now.

Yes... Between the threat of lights out and the government spying the arse
out of *everyone* (PRISM, ANPR, CCTV etc) it's starting to feel like a
banana republic. Still have food so not quite there yet...

I half expect Mission Impossible to sneak in, topple the government and
install a benign leader.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 02/07/2013 08:30, Brian Gaff wrote:
Now calm down, Nuclear is the way to go. actually the fracing or
whatever
its called is mainly a problem in the states as there is very little
regulation. Fly by night companies with naff quality control on their
well
cladding have set up shop and as many of the curved holes go under other
persons land when the cladding leaks the gas can come up and get into the
water and has to be removed, and of course they do not stump up for this
and hence you get a lot of litigation and chaos. There is also the sad
fact

It will likely occur here too unless the government is careful about who
and how they allow fracking to go ahead.

that some of the chemicals they use over there are not known to the
public
as they are considered a trade secret by the company concerned, which
means
that people only have their word for it that its safe to use at all.
Hopefully we need to learn from that and take steps to get it regulated
properly and sort out any legal problems of gas leakage into water people
use before they start.
Brian

Interesting that considering it is only restricted prospecting trials at
present I have seen some of the kit and more of the chemicals on road
transport in the UK recently. It would undoubtedly lower the price of gas
if it came onstream, but we also need some more nuclear power stations in
the longer term if the lights are to stay on.

I suspect that the UK being so built up compared to the USA will result in
some considerable pain and suffering for the neighbours as cack handed
smash and grab raids occur to get the easy gas, bank the profits offshore
and leave the mess for someone else to clean up afterwards.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown


But that is a worst case scenario. It is not 'the law' that it be done that
way. If it was essentially a British Government operation in conjunction
with carefully chosen industry partners, and properly regulated, there is no
reason why it should fall to the smash and grab scenario. There must be
plenty of companies out there that would want a part of this. The potential
rewards are massive, and if the Government took the opportunity to lay down
firm ground rules regarding the paying of taxes and company status in this
country, I'm sure that most willing potential partnering companies would
roll over and accept those terms, in order to be in at the ground and
getting a piece of the action. This is effectively a brand new industry, and
we potentially have the raw materials to supply it for many years to come. I
can't imagine a better opportunity to build a new-era operation, part owned
by the people, and operated in an open, safe and transparent way to the
advantage of everyone concerned, and the environment as well. It has the
potential to bring industry back to this country from the far east, increase
employment, dig us out of the financial **** we are currently in, and propel
us back to the forefront of developed countries, to say nothing of easing
the personal energy cost burden on all of us.

There is so much potential to all of this that it makes me weep to see yet
another vociferous minority chucking their green spanners in the works to
satisfy their own selfish needs, whilst lying that they are doing it on
behalf of and for the good of us all.

Well not for me, you aren't ...

Arfa

Another John wrote:
[1] Oooh!! It's got a "bio-" in it!! It _must_ be environmentally
friendly!! PAH!

Here, have a glass of biocide, it's natural, and has "bio" in it.

JGH

Arfa Daily wrote:
If it was essentially a British Government operation in conjunction
with carefully chosen industry partners, and properly regulated,

Sorry, the tea went down the wrong way there at that impressive use of
"government", "carefully", "regulated" all in the same sentence.

JGH

"

But that is a worst case scenario. It is not 'the law' that it be done
that way. If it was essentially a British Government operation in
conjunction with carefully chosen industry partners, and properly
regulated, there is no reason why it should fall to the smash and grab
scenario. There must be plenty of companies out there that would want a
part of this. The potential rewards are massive, and if the Government
took the opportunity to lay down firm ground rules regarding the paying of
taxes and company status in this country, I'm sure that most willing
potential partnering companies would roll over and accept those terms, in
order to be in at the ground and getting a piece of the action. This is
effectively a brand new industry, and we potentially have the raw
materials to supply it for many years to come. I can't imagine a better
opportunity to build a new-era operation, part owned by the people, and
operated in an open, safe and transparent way to the advantage of everyone
concerned, and the environment as well. It has the potential to bring
industry back to this country from the far east, increase employment, dig
us out of the financial **** we are currently in, and propel us back to
the forefront of developed countries, to say nothing of easing the
personal energy cost burden on all of us.

There is so much potential to all of this that it makes me weep to see yet
another vociferous minority chucking their green spanners in the works to
satisfy their own selfish needs, whilst lying that they are doing it on
behalf of and for the good of us all.

Well not for me, you aren't ...

Arfa
This is not new technology, it has been done for forty years and before that
explosives were used.

It's not just the case of a couple of holes in the ground, it's a case of
thousands with ample scope for cockups.
Hundreds of miles of pipelines and roads, ponds of poisonous chemicals vast
amounts of borings to get rid of. Tanker and truck traffic and new
refineries.

We are all being sold a bunch of propaganda.
Also a plot to keep all this activity oop North.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Wwe-uBM

On 02/07/13 19:36, harryagain wrote:
We are all being sold a bunch of propaganda.

Like with wuindfarms and solar panels?

Also a plot to keep all this activity oop North.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Wwe-uBM

Nurse! More chlorpromazine...the paranoia level....

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 21:08:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/07/13 19:36, harryagain wrote:
We are all being sold a bunch of propaganda.

Like with wuindfarms and solar panels?

Why is it that the UK just nibbles around the edges of flakey energy
technology - whirligigs, solar panels, wave machines and so on,
instead of serious nuclear stuff etc?
In the days of coal there were lots of serious power stations (and
indeed gas-works). We seem to have lost the plot these days.

--
Frank Erskine

On 02/07/2013 19:36, harryagain wrote:
....
Also a plot to keep all this activity oop North.
....

That is where the largest, most productive fields are, just as the
largest onshore oil field in western Europe is down South. However, as I
have already pointed out, the southern shale fields are currently being
actively explored. Not that you have ever been somebody to allow facts
to get in the way of your opinions.

Colin Bignell

On 02/07/13 23:06, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 21:08:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/07/13 19:36, harryagain wrote:
We are all being sold a bunch of propaganda.
Like with wuindfarms and solar panels?
Why is it that the UK just nibbles around the edges of flakey energy
technology - whirligigs, solar panels, wave machines and so on,
instead of serious nuclear stuff etc?
In the days of coal there were lots of serious power stations (and
indeed gas-works). We seem to have lost the plot these days.

Because people have been stupid enough to bvote labour liberal democrat
and tory it seems.

And they all just like poncing around being important, not doing hard work


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"

But that is a worst case scenario. It is not 'the law' that it be done
that way. If it was essentially a British Government operation in
conjunction with carefully chosen industry partners, and properly
regulated, there is no reason why it should fall to the smash and grab
scenario. There must be plenty of companies out there that would want a
part of this. The potential rewards are massive, and if the Government
took the opportunity to lay down firm ground rules regarding the paying
of taxes and company status in this country, I'm sure that most willing
potential partnering companies would roll over and accept those terms, in
order to be in at the ground and getting a piece of the action. This is
effectively a brand new industry, and we potentially have the raw
materials to supply it for many years to come. I can't imagine a better
opportunity to build a new-era operation, part owned by the people, and
operated in an open, safe and transparent way to the advantage of
everyone concerned, and the environment as well. It has the potential to
bring industry back to this country from the far east, increase
employment, dig us out of the financial **** we are currently in, and
propel us back to the forefront of developed countries, to say nothing of
easing the personal energy cost burden on all of us.

There is so much potential to all of this that it makes me weep to see
yet another vociferous minority chucking their green spanners in the
works to satisfy their own selfish needs, whilst lying that they are
doing it on behalf of and for the good of us all.

Well not for me, you aren't ...

Arfa
This is not new technology, it has been done for forty years and before
that explosives were used.


No, it's not 'new' technology, although the exact methods that are used have
been the subject of ongoing development and refinement. And the fact that it
is not new means that we should by now have a pretty good understanding of
it.



It's not just the case of a couple of holes in the ground, it's a case of
thousands with ample scope for cockups.


I think that 'thousands' is something of an exaggeration. And just about
everything that we do in life has ample scope for cockups. But if we never
did these things, we'd never learn how to do them better, and I think that
taking the negative view that it's sure to all go wrong sooner or later, is
typical of the defeatist attitudes that prevail now in this country, which
is why we never get anything done here any more.


Hundreds of miles of pipelines and roads, ponds of poisonous chemicals
vast amounts of borings to get rid of. Tanker and truck traffic and new
refineries.

That is bordering on nonsense ... Are you a nuclear protestor as well ?



We are all being sold a bunch of propaganda.
Also a plot to keep all this activity oop North.

And that really *is* nonsense ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Wwe-uBM

Yes, that one is the *real* piece of propaganda ...

Arfa

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 21:08:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/07/13 19:36, harryagain wrote:
We are all being sold a bunch of propaganda.

Like with wuindfarms and solar panels?

Why is it that the UK just nibbles around the edges of flakey energy
technology - whirligigs, solar panels, wave machines and so on,
instead of serious nuclear stuff etc?
In the days of coal there were lots of serious power stations (and
indeed gas-works). We seem to have lost the plot these days.

--
Frank Erskine


Because at every turn, there's either a protest group or an EU regulation
trying to block any proper development ...

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"

But that is a worst case scenario. It is not 'the law' that it be done
that way. If it was essentially a British Government operation in
conjunction with carefully chosen industry partners, and properly
regulated, there is no reason why it should fall to the smash and grab
scenario. There must be plenty of companies out there that would want a
part of this. The potential rewards are massive, and if the Government
took the opportunity to lay down firm ground rules regarding the paying
of taxes and company status in this country, I'm sure that most willing
potential partnering companies would roll over and accept those terms,
in order to be in at the ground and getting a piece of the action. This
is effectively a brand new industry, and we potentially have the raw
materials to supply it for many years to come. I can't imagine a better
opportunity to build a new-era operation, part owned by the people, and
operated in an open, safe and transparent way to the advantage of
everyone concerned, and the environment as well. It has the potential to
bring industry back to this country from the far east, increase
employment, dig us out of the financial **** we are currently in, and
propel us back to the forefront of developed countries, to say nothing
of easing the personal energy cost burden on all of us.

There is so much potential to all of this that it makes me weep to see
yet another vociferous minority chucking their green spanners in the
works to satisfy their own selfish needs, whilst lying that they are
doing it on behalf of and for the good of us all.

Well not for me, you aren't ...

Arfa
This is not new technology, it has been done for forty years and before
that explosives were used.


No, it's not 'new' technology, although the exact methods that are used
have been the subject of ongoing development and refinement. And the fact
that it is not new means that we should by now have a pretty good
understanding of it.



It's not just the case of a couple of holes in the ground, it's a case of
thousands with ample scope for cockups.


I think that 'thousands' is something of an exaggeration. And just about
everything that we do in life has ample scope for cockups. But if we never
did these things, we'd never learn how to do them better, and I think that
taking the negative view that it's sure to all go wrong sooner or later,
is typical of the defeatist attitudes that prevail now in this country,
which is why we never get anything done here any more.


Hundreds of miles of pipelines and roads, ponds of poisonous chemicals
vast amounts of borings to get rid of. Tanker and truck traffic and new
refineries.

That is bordering on nonsense ... Are you a nuclear protestor as well ?



We are all being sold a bunch of propaganda.
Also a plot to keep all this activity oop North.

And that really *is* nonsense ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Wwe-uBM

Yes, that one is the *real* piece of propaganda ...

Well you find something to refute it.
Similar things happened in the coal fields in this country but at least the
mineheads were few and far between.
And coal wasn't taken from beneath existing buildings.


Clearly you haven't looked into whats involved in this technology.
You you suppose someone waves a magic wand and the holes appear?

How do you suppose they get the gas from the well? In buckets?

How do you suppose they get the fracking fluids in/out?
What do suppose happens to it when it's been used?
What happens to the hundreds of tons of borings from the wells?

The wells are soon depleted and have to be constantly replaced.

And finally, there may not be commercial amounts of gas.

It's the sort of stuff they won't want in the the "Leafy Suburbs".

You really are in cloud cuckoo land. Credulous is the word.
Why don't you do some research.

harryagain wrote:
And coal wasn't taken from beneath existing buildings.

Err....
http://www.wheresbest.co.uk/images/g...9980_large.jpg

JGH