Hello all.
My 1950s brick-built house has a light weight block wall, on the first floor, separating the master bedroom from the bathroom. There is no corresponding wall, on the ground floor, underneath.
A while back, when doing some work in the room below the bedroom and bathroom, I made a hole in the ceiling to see how the wall above was supported. I expected to find an RSJ or beam, but there was nothing. I guessed that someone must have built the block wall directly onto the floor boards; far from ideal, I would imagine, but it's been in place for quite a few years without incident (though it is not original to the house).
Recently, I had reason to remove the skirting board that runs along the wall in question, in the bedroom. With the skirting removed, I can now see the base of the wall and it appears that the blocks are not sitting on the floor boards but are, in fact, fractionally aboove the floor boards. Does anyone have any idea what's going on here? To all intents and purposes, it appears that the wall is floating. The span is about 3m, so I would be surprised if it could all hold in place just from being tied in to brick walls at either end. One notion that occurs to me is whether there could be a supporting steel for the lowermost course and that the blocks are shaped in some way that conceals it. Is this plausible? Are such techniques well-known?
Suggestions appreciated. I'm reluctant to do too much exploratory excavation for fear of disrupting what might be a fragile structure!
Thanks, Jim.

On 22/03/2013 21:36, Jim Walsh wrote:

Hello all. My 1950s brick-built house has a light weight block wall,
on the first floor, separating the master bedroom from the bathroom.
There is no corresponding wall, on the ground floor, underneath. A
while back, when doing some work in the room below the bedroom and
bathroom, I made a hole in the ceiling to see how the wall above was
supported. I expected to find an RSJ or beam, but there was nothing.
I guessed that someone must have built the block wall directly onto
the floor boards; far from ideal, I would imagine, but it's been in

Its quite common with light weight walls... especially when running
across the joists.

place for quite a few years without incident (though it is not
original to the house). Recently, I had reason to remove the skirting
board that runs along the wall in question, in the bedroom. With the
skirting removed, I can now see the base of the wall and it appears
that the blocks are not sitting on the floor boards but are, in fact,
fractionally aboove the floor boards. Does anyone have any idea
what's going on here? To all intents and purposes, it appears that
the wall is floating. The span is about 3m, so I would be surprised
if it could all hold in place just from being tied in to brick walls
at either end. One notion that occurs to me is whether there could be
a supporting steel for the lowermost course and that the blocks are
shaped in some way that conceals it. Is this plausible? Are such
techniques well-known? Suggestions appreciated. I'm reluctant to do
too much exploratory excavation for fear of disrupting what might be
a fragile structure! Thanks, Jim.

Can you actually see under it, or could it simply be there is a bed of
mortar under it that means the blocks are spaced off the floor level a
little?




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/03/2013 21:36, Jim Walsh wrote:
Hello all.
My 1950s brick-built house has a light weight block wall, on the first floor, separating the master bedroom from the bathroom. There is no corresponding wall, on the ground floor, underneath.
A while back, when doing some work in the room below the bedroom and bathroom, I made a hole in the ceiling to see how the wall above was supported. I expected to find an RSJ or beam, but there was nothing. I guessed that someone must have built the block wall directly onto the floor boards; far from ideal, I would imagine, but it's been in place for quite a few years without incident (though it is not original to the house).
Recently, I had reason to remove the skirting board that runs along the wall in question, in the bedroom. With the skirting removed, I can now see the base of the wall and it appears that the blocks are not sitting on the floor boards but are, in fact, fractionally aboove the floor boards. Does anyone have any idea what's going on here? To all intents and purposes, it appears that the wall is floating. The span is about 3m, so I would be surprised if it could all hold in place just from being tied in to brick walls at either end. One notion that occurs to me is whether there could be a supporting steel for the lowermost course and that the blocks are shaped in some way that conceals it. Is this plausible? Are such techniques well-known?
Suggestions appreciated. I'm reluctant to do too much exploratory excavation for fear of disrupting what might be a fragile structure!
Thanks, Jim.

I don't suppose you have actually slid (say) a steel rule under the full
width of the blockwork and all along the length of the wall, to prove
that there are no contacts at all with the floor structure. I'd be
surprised if there was a "hidden" steel beam. You don't need very much
support along the length to keep a light block wall stable.

--
For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, neat,
and wrong.
H L Menken

On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Jim Walsh
wrote:

Hello all.
My 1950s brick-built house has a light weight block wall, on the first floor, separating the master bedroom from the bathroom. There is no corresponding wall, on the ground floor, underneath.
A while back, when doing some work in the room below the bedroom and bathroom, I made a hole in the ceiling to see how the wall above was supported. I expected to find an RSJ or beam, but there was nothing. I guessed that someone must have built the block wall directly onto the floor boards; far from ideal, I would imagine, but it's been in place for quite a few years without incident (though it is not original to the house).
Recently, I had reason to remove the skirting board that runs along the wall in question, in the bedroom. With the skirting removed, I can now see the base of the wall and it appears that the blocks are not sitting on the floor boards but are, in fact, fractionally aboove the floor boards. Does anyone have any idea what's going on here? To all intents and purposes, it appears that the wall is floating. The span is about 3m, so I would be surprised if it could all hold in place just from being tied in to brick walls at either end. One notion that occurs to me is whether there could be a supporting steel for the lowermost course and that the blocks are shaped in some way that conceals it. Is this plausible? Are such techniques well-known?
Suggestions appreciated. I'm reluctant to do too much exploratory excavation for fear of disrupting what might be a fragile structure!
Thanks, Jim.

All the upper walls in my 1979 house are like this, none are over a
lower wall.

They are a very thin thermalite/breeze block on top of a wooden beam
and plastered.

If I put a socket back box in one room, the back is in the other
bedroom, a right pain.

Jim Walsh wrote:
Hello all.

The bedroom walls in the 1948 council house where I grew up are like
that. There is a clear gap under the wall and as a child I used to use
it to run wires about.
In my present 1960s house some upstairs walls are like that.

Bill

On Mar 22, 9:36*pm, Jim Walsh wrote:
Hello all.
My 1950s brick-built house has a light weight block wall, on the first floor, separating the master bedroom from the bathroom. There is no corresponding wall, on the ground floor, underneath.
A while back, when doing some work in the room below the bedroom and bathroom, I made a hole in the ceiling to see how the wall above was supported. I expected to find an RSJ or beam, but there was nothing. I guessed that someone must have built the block wall directly onto the floor boards; far from ideal, I would imagine, but it's been in place for quite a few years without incident (though it is not original to the house).
Recently, I had reason to remove the skirting board that runs along the wall in question, in the bedroom. With the skirting removed, I can now see the base of the wall and it appears that the blocks are not sitting on the floor boards but are, in fact, fractionally aboove the floor boards. Does anyone have any idea what's going on here? To all intents and purposes, it appears that the wall is floating. The span is about 3m, so I would be surprised if it could all hold in place just from being tied in to brick walls at either end. One notion that occurs to me is whether there could be a supporting steel for the lowermost course and that the blocks are shaped in some way that conceals it. Is this plausible? Are such techniques well-known?
Suggestions appreciated. I'm reluctant to do too much exploratory excavation for fear of disrupting what might be a fragile structure!
Thanks, Jim.

It was common practice years ago. The blocks will likely be proper
breeze blocks, ie made out of power station fused ash & very light..
The gap under is probably due to the timber warping/shrinking as it
dried out.
So long as there are no cracks/other visible damage, leave alone.

On 23/03/2013 07:42, harry wrote:

It was common practice years ago. The blocks will likely be proper
breeze blocks, ie made out of power station fused ash & very light..
The gap under is probably due to the timber warping/shrinking as it
dried out.
So long as there are no cracks/other visible damage, leave alone.

And I thought that lightweight concrete block such as Thermalite were
significantly lighter than breeze? I always think of them as being a bit
lighter than the heavy concrete blocks, but much heavier than
lightweight blocks.

Anyone care to confirm - or otherwise?

--
Rod

In message , Jim
Walsh writes
Hello all.
My 1950s brick-built house has a light weight block wall, on the first
floor, separating the master bedroom from the bathroom. There is no
corresponding wall, on the ground floor, underneath.
A while back, when doing some work in the room below the bedroom and
bathroom, I made a hole in the ceiling to see how the wall above was
supported. I expected to find an RSJ or beam, but there was nothing. I
guessed that someone must have built the block wall directly onto the
floor boards; far from ideal, I would imagine, but it's been in place
for quite a few years without incident (though it is not original to
the house).
Recently, I had reason to remove the skirting board that runs along the
wall in question, in the bedroom. With the skirting removed, I can now
see the base of the wall and it appears that the blocks are not sitting
on the floor boards but are, in fact, fractionally aboove the floor
boards. Does anyone have any idea what's going on here? To all intents
and purposes, it appears that the wall is floating. The span is about
3m, so I would be surprised if it could all hold in place just from
being tied in to brick walls at either end. One notion that occurs to
me is whether there could be a supporting steel for the lowermost
course and that the blocks are shaped in some way that conceals it. Is
this plausible? Are such techniques well-known?
Suggestions appreciated. I'm reluctant to do too much exploratory
excavation for fear of disrupting what might be a fragile structure!

You can create a *hidden* beam by using strips of expanded metal in two
or more of the lower courses. Sounds unlikely here from what others have
said.

--
Tim Lamb

On Mar 23, 8:16*am, polygonum wrote:
On 23/03/2013 07:42, harry wrote:
It was common practice years ago. The blocks will likely be proper
breeze blocks, ie made out of power station fused ash & very light..
The gap under is probably due to the timber warping/shrinking as it
dried out.
So long as there are no cracks/other visible damage, leave alone.

And I thought that lightweight concrete block such as Thermalite were
significantly lighter than breeze? I always think of them as being a bit
lighter than the heavy concrete blocks, but much heavier than
lightweight blocks.

Anyone care to confirm - or otherwise?

--
Rod

There are various grades. The better the insulation value the lighter
they are. And weaker.

On 22/03/13 21:36, Jim Walsh wrote:
Hello all.
My 1950s brick-built house has a light weight block wall, on the first floor, separating the master bedroom from the bathroom. There is no corresponding wall, on the ground floor, underneath.
A while back, when doing some work in the room below the bedroom and bathroom, I made a hole in the ceiling to see how the wall above was supported. I expected to find an RSJ or beam, but there was nothing. I guessed that someone must have built the block wall directly onto the floor boards; far from ideal, I would imagine, but it's been in place for quite a few years without incident (though it is not original to the house).
Recently, I had reason to remove the skirting board that runs along the wall in question, in the bedroom. With the skirting removed, I can now see the base of the wall and it appears that the blocks are not sitting on the floor boards but are, in fact, fractionally aboove the floor boards. Does anyone have any idea what's going on here? To all intents and purposes, it appears that the wall is floating. The span is about 3m, so I would be surprised if it could all hold in place just from being tied in to brick walls at either end. One notion that occurs to me is whether there could be a supporting steel for the lowermost course and that the blocks are shaped in some way that conceals it. Is this plausible? Are such techniques well-known?
Suggestions appreciated. I'm reluctant to do too much exploratory excavation for fear of disrupting what might be a fragile structure!
Thanks, Jim.

i'd look in the attic to check that its
not holding up any important roof beams!
[g]

On Friday, March 22, 2013 9:36:01 PM UTC, Jim Walsh wrote:
Hello all.

My 1950s brick-built house has a light weight block wall, on the first floor, separating the master bedroom from the bathroom. There is no corresponding wall, on the ground floor, underneath.

A while back, when doing some work in the room below the bedroom and bathroom, I made a hole in the ceiling to see how the wall above was supported. I expected to find an RSJ or beam, but there was nothing. I guessed that someone must have built the block wall directly onto the floor boards; far from ideal, I would imagine, but it's been in place for quite a few years without incident (though it is not original to the house).

Recently, I had reason to remove the skirting board that runs along the wall in question, in the bedroom. With the skirting removed, I can now see the base of the wall and it appears that the blocks are not sitting on the floor boards but are, in fact, fractionally aboove the floor boards. Does anyone have any idea what's going on here? To all intents and purposes, it appears that the wall is floating. The span is about 3m, so I would be surprised if it could all hold in place just from being tied in to brick walls at either end. One notion that occurs to me is whether there could be a supporting steel for the lowermost course and that the blocks are shaped in some way that conceals it. Is this plausible? Are such techniques well-known?

Suggestions appreciated. I'm reluctant to do too much exploratory excavation for fear of disrupting what might be a fragile structure!

Thanks, Jim.

Unsupported walls work on the same principle as soldier courses. There are lots of them about in odl properties, and they only occasionally slip and break up. Stop worrying.


NT