At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?


--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter.
What do you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for
intermittent motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent or
more continuous motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a range of
competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none with Dual fuel.
Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or not?)

On 08/03/2013 12:47, Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter.
What do you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for
intermittent motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent or
more continuous motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a range of
competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none with Dual fuel.
Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or not?)

My questions relates to a house which has been used as offices and was
fitted with a 3 phase supply. There are three floors each with a fuse
box. I presume each box is connected to a different phase.

The house is now to be used as domestic premises and I am wondering
what to do with this three phase supply. The house could be described as
a large semi with say 5-6 bedrooms.

I have been in contact with the electricity supplier, but yet to get
much response from them. The present commercial tariff is unbelievably
complex - 37 line items. I presume they estimated the usage of each
computer.


--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare wrote:
On 08/03/2013 12:47, Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase
supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter.
What do you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for
intermittent motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent or
more continuous motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a range of
competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none with Dual fuel.
Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or not?)

My questions relates to a house which has been used as offices and was
fitted with a 3 phase supply. There are three floors each with a fuse
box. I presume each box is connected to a different phase.

The house is now to be used as domestic premises and I am wondering
what to do with this three phase supply. The house could be described as
a large semi with say 5-6 bedrooms.

I have been in contact with the electricity supplier, but yet to get
much response from them. The present commercial tariff is unbelievably
complex - 37 line items. I presume they estimated the usage of each
computer.


I'd get it taken out otherwise it will cost you more in both standing
charges and lack of tariff flexibility.
About the only advantage for retaining 3 phase (assuming you don't want
to run big machines, would be for a big heat pump.

Simply joining the three floors together in a Henley block and then a
single phase meter will do what you need with minimal work so the costs
should not be too great.

One possible trap might be they will want you to bring the whole
installation upto latest regs and count it as a new install

Adam W will possibly be along soon and be able to advise as a
professional spark.

Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
On 08/03/2013 12:47, Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to
provide a 3 phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3
phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be
suitable for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter.
What do you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for
intermittent motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent
or more continuous motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a
range of competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none
with Dual fuel. Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or
not?)

My questions relates to a house which has been used as offices and
was fitted with a 3 phase supply. There are three floors each with
a fuse box. I presume each box is connected to a different phase.

The house is now to be used as domestic premises and I am
wondering what to do with this three phase supply. The house could
be described as a large semi with say 5-6 bedrooms.

I have been in contact with the electricity supplier, but yet to get
much response from them. The present commercial tariff is
unbelievably complex - 37 line items. I presume they estimated the
usage of each computer.


I'd get it taken out otherwise it will cost you more in both standing
charges and lack of tariff flexibility.
About the only advantage for retaining 3 phase (assuming you don't
want to run big machines, would be for a big heat pump.

Simply joining the three floors together in a Henley block and then a
single phase meter will do what you need with minimal work so the
costs should not be too great.

One possible trap might be they will want you to bring the whole
installation upto latest regs and count it as a new install

Adam W will possibly be along soon and be able to advise as a
professional spark.

Well the 6 bedroom, 2 kitchens, 4 lounges, 8 ensuites, 3 toilets, 2
hallways, 2 landing, 1 study new build that I have just wired up has a 100A
single phase supply!

I have worked in houses that used to be shops and the 3 phase supply was
just left there and two of the fuses were removed and just a single phase
was used. I pretty much did what you have suggested regarding the henley
blocks.

I am also pretty sure that you will not have to bring the installation up to
the current regs to get the meter swapped.

--
Adam

On 08/03/2013 13:14, Michael Chare wrote:
On 08/03/2013 12:47, Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase
supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter.
What do you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for
intermittent motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent or
more continuous motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a range of
competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none with Dual fuel.
Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or not?)

My questions relates to a house which has been used as offices and was
fitted with a 3 phase supply.There are three floors each with a fuse
box. I presume each box is connected to a different phase.

The house is now to be used as domestic premises and I am wondering
what to do with this three phase supply. The house could be described as
a large semi with say 5-6 bedrooms.

Get it converted to a single phase domestic supply, unless you have some
particular need for a three phase supply. You will probably want to
rewire the property anyway, but there is no reason why, as an interim
measure, the different fuse boxes cannot all be connected to the same phase.

Colin Bignell

On 08/03/2013 13:28, Nightjar wrote:
On 08/03/2013 13:14, Michael Chare wrote:
On 08/03/2013 12:47, Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase
supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be
suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter.
What do you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for
intermittent motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent or
more continuous motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a range of
competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none with Dual fuel.
Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or not?)

My questions relates to a house which has been used as offices and was
fitted with a 3 phase supply.There are three floors each with a fuse
box. I presume each box is connected to a different phase.

The house is now to be used as domestic premises and I am wondering
what to do with this three phase supply. The house could be described as
a large semi with say 5-6 bedrooms.

Get it converted to a single phase domestic supply, unless you have some
particular need for a three phase supply. You will probably want to
rewire the property anyway, but there is no reason why, as an interim
measure, the different fuse boxes cannot all be connected to the same
phase.

Safer too. There could currently be junction boxes for the sockets on on
one floor and the lights of the floor below running in the same void, so
you've got 415V between them if you have some sort of accident while
doing work on the building.

SteveW

In article , Michael
Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk wrote:
On 08/03/2013 12:47, Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase
supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be
suitable for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter. What do
you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for intermittent
motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent or more continuous
motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a range of
competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none with Dual
fuel. Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or not?)

My questions relates to a house which has been used as offices and was
fitted with a 3 phase supply. There are three floors each with a fuse
box. I presume each box is connected to a different phase.

The house is now to be used as domestic premises and I am wondering
what to do with this three phase supply. The house could be described as
a large semi with say 5-6 bedrooms.

I have been in contact with the electricity supplier, but yet to get
much response from them. The present commercial tariff is unbelievably
complex - 37 line items. I presume they estimated the usage of each
computer.


My house had a 3 phase supply installed originally, probably not when the
hosue was built (1911) but later. I base this on the fact there was still
some surface wiring to light switches when we moved in. We only use a
single phase. Our phase was changed a few years ago since the phase we were
on had an intermittent fault.

3 ase supples weer installed originally so that the supply co could balance
the load between phases.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article ,
charles wrote:
My house had a 3 phase supply installed originally, probably not when
the hosue was built (1911) but later. I base this on the fact there was
still some surface wiring to light switches when we moved in. We only
use a single phase. Our phase was changed a few years ago since the
phase we were on had an intermittent fault.

3 ase supples weer installed originally so that the supply co could
balance the load between phases.

My parents house - a small two bedroom one built in the '30s, had two
phases incoming. Perhaps to allow electric central heating?

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/03/13 12:47, Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter.
What do you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for
intermittent motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent or
more continuous motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a range of
competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none with Dual fuel.
Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or not?)

I was offered it when they upgraded my transformer. In reality 100 amps
per phase is about the limit. That's 23kW or so on a angle phase, not
sure how the sums come out on 3 phase tho.

I'd guess the installation cost is in the 2-20k area.

Some rural places on single phases maybe even more

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 08/03/13 12:47, Bob Minchin wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?


Most suppliers will do it at a price. They supply the meter.
What do you want to run on 3 phase? There are other solutions for
intermittent motor loads up to 10HP (converters) and intermittent or
more continuous motor loads up to 4ish HP (inverters)

Also consider that your supplier is not likely to offer such a range of
competitive tariffs with 3 phase leccy and possibly none with Dual fuel.
Someone will be along soon to prove me wrong (or not?)

I was offered it when they upgraded my transformer. In reality 100 amps
per phase is about the limit. That's 23kW or so on a angle phase, not
sure how the sums come out on 3 phase tho.

Root 3VIcosphi:-)

My farmhouse is supplied with 3 phase but the loads are spread between
domestic and various outlying barns.

The tariff is no different to that for single phase.

I'd guess the installation cost is in the 2-20k area.

Some rural places on single phases maybe even more


--
Tim Lamb

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 21:55:37 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:


writes

I was offered it when they upgraded my transformer. In reality 100 amps
per phase is about the limit. That's 23kW or so on a angle phase, not
sure how the sums come out on 3 phase tho.

Root 3VIcosphi:-)


Easier to work out that on a balanced 3ph the sum of any two currents
equals the other, so measuring current in one leg times rms voltage
between phases is power.

The 100Amp limit giving 72kW was a supply metering issue for our yard
so it worked out cheaper to have two 72kW supplies rather than move
from whole current metering and peak power monitoring.

AJH

In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

I don't think there's any minimum, but there may be an extra standing
charge. Nowadays, there's probably a whopping great installation charge,
although it used to be free back when it was done by your supplier and
they were going to earn more money from you.

For a small load, it may be cheaper to generate your own 3-phase
from a single phase supply.

There is a maximum singe-phase supply - generally if you need more
than 100A, you will be required to move to a 3-phase supply.

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Yes, providing the local network has it to hand.

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?

Smaller ones, yes. I doubt they would use a large one with current
transformers, as it probably isn't accurate with smalld omestic loads.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

I don't think there's any minimum, but there may be an extra standing
charge. Nowadays, there's probably a whopping great installation charge,
although it used to be free back when it was done by your supplier and
they were going to earn more money from you.

The added complication is that you may end up with a commercial supply
number which will limit the flexibility in choice if supply providers.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 08/03/2013 13:19, fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

I don't think there's any minimum, but there may be an extra standing
charge. Nowadays, there's probably a whopping great installation charge,
although it used to be free back when it was done by your supplier and
they were going to earn more money from you.

The added complication is that you may end up with a commercial supply
number which will limit the flexibility in choice if supply providers.


Indeed yes. I am trying to get it reclassified!


--
Michael Chare

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
o.uk...

On 08/03/2013 13:19, fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

I don't think there's any minimum, but there may be an extra standing
charge. Nowadays, there's probably a whopping great installation charge,
although it used to be free back when it was done by your supplier and
they were going to earn more money from you.

The added complication is that you may end up with a commercial supply
number which will limit the flexibility in choice if supply providers.


Indeed yes. I am trying to get it reclassified!



When mine went in, initially they set it up as commercial with (then)
17.5%VAT - it only took a 'phone call to get it put correctly as domestic.
If you need evidence, presumable you have change of use planning permission
from offices to domestic so you have the 'bit of paper'. And my supply is
160 amps per phase with current transformers to measure it!

AWEM

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
o.uk...

At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?



I have three phase in my barn / workshop with it's own 3 phase meter. As it
is not commercial I pay the same standing charge and cost per unit as my
(single phase) house supply. I also pay the lower 5% VAT rate on it. I
certainly wouldn't want three phase taken out if I were you. Though I would
use a single phase thoughout the house and retain the incoming three phase
head and meter for possible later use running one phase to your consumer
unit. It's an asset not a liability.

AWEM

In article ,
says...

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
o.uk...

At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?



I have three phase in my barn / workshop with it's own 3 phase meter. As it
is not commercial I pay the same standing charge and cost per unit as my
(single phase) house supply. I also pay the lower 5% VAT rate on it. I
certainly wouldn't want three phase taken out if I were you. Though I would
use a single phase thoughout the house and retain the incoming three phase
head and meter for possible later use running one phase to your consumer
unit. It's an asset not a liability.

AWEM

Ditto. As this is a diy forum I would have thought 3 phase would be
strongly endorsed as giving you ability to use all sorts of useful
machinery. I am with EON and single or 3 phase makes no difference to
domestic tariffs available, standing charge or cost of electricity.

On 08/03/2013 15:53, BruceB wrote:
In article ,
says...

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
o.uk...

At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?



I have three phase in my barn / workshop with it's own 3 phase meter. As it
is not commercial I pay the same standing charge and cost per unit as my
(single phase) house supply. I also pay the lower 5% VAT rate on it. I
certainly wouldn't want three phase taken out if I were you. Though I would
use a single phase thoughout the house and retain the incoming three phase
head and meter for possible later use running one phase to your consumer
unit. It's an asset not a liability.

AWEM

Ditto. As this is a diy forum I would have thought 3 phase would be
strongly endorsed as giving you ability to use all sorts of useful
machinery. I am with EON and single or 3 phase makes no difference to
domestic tariffs available, standing charge or cost of electricity.

The supply cables won't be removed, so 3 phase could easily be restored
should the need arise. As 3 phase is not expected in a domestic
property, it is quite possible for a careless use of extension leads or
later rewiring to introduce 415v where most people would expect 230v. It
is safer to change to single phase unless you really have a need for 3
phase.

Colin Bignell

On Mar 8, 12:01*pm, Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk
wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?

--
Michael Chare

The alternative is to have a single phase meter on/for each floor
(assuming they will be separate households.)
Then you will get three separate bills.
BUT you will be paying the premium price on the first part of each
bill/acount.

On Friday, March 8, 2013 12:01:11 PM UTC, Michael Chare wrote:
At what sort of load would an electricity supplier want to provide a 3
phase supply? (How big a house?)

Notionally, only if there was a need for a three phase supply. That would be a significant load (over about 20 kW, give or take) that was likely to be used for prolonged periods, or if there was three phase rotating equipment.. Think swimming pool heater, circulating pump.

Is it normally possible for a domestic consumer to have a 3 phase supply?

Yes, and despite what the gainsayers are telling you, at no extra cost JUST because it's three phase.

I have a 3 phase supply in my garage, single phase supply in the house. The garage supply feeds a single phase installation in the garage, 3 phase for my swimming pool. Winter months the pool is completely isolated, and there is minimal consumption in the garage.

The unit consumption for the two meters is aggregated. I pay one set of standing charges, day units and night units.

Would a 3 phase meter installed for a commercial supply also be suitable
for a domestic single tariff supply?

Yes. in simple terms the spec to which the meters are constructed require them to be accurate no matter how the load is distributed.