Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

Depending on what you want to control, one option might be a DIN rail
mounted timer in the CU and then a normal switch in the kitchen to
trigger it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

Depending on what you want to control, one option might be a DIN rail
mounted timer in the CU and then a normal switch in the kitchen to
trigger it.

If we had a DIN rail in our wooden CU with rewireable fuses

But the real reason for having it in the kitchen is so that SWMBO
doesn't have to go into the outhouse (where the cylinder is) to press
the Boost button.

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On 01/02/2013 23:41, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

Depending on what you want to control, one option might be a DIN rail
mounted timer in the CU and then a normal switch in the kitchen to
trigger it.

If we had a DIN rail in our wooden CU with rewireable fuses

But the real reason for having it in the kitchen is so that SWMBO
doesn't have to go into the outhouse (where the cylinder is) to press
the Boost button.

Well same logic can apply - auxiliary DIN enclosure for a timer, and a
remote slim switch.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 23:41, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

Depending on what you want to control, one option might be a DIN rail
mounted timer in the CU and then a normal switch in the kitchen to
trigger it.

If we had a DIN rail in our wooden CU with rewireable fuses

But the real reason for having it in the kitchen is so that SWMBO
doesn't have to go into the outhouse (where the cylinder is) to press
the Boost button.

Well same logic can apply - auxiliary DIN enclosure for a timer, and a
remote slim switch.

How would the switch override the timer to do the boost?

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On 02/02/2013 10:26, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 23:41, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

Depending on what you want to control, one option might be a DIN rail
mounted timer in the CU and then a normal switch in the kitchen to
trigger it.

If we had a DIN rail in our wooden CU with rewireable fuses

But the real reason for having it in the kitchen is so that SWMBO
doesn't have to go into the outhouse (where the cylinder is) to press
the Boost button.

Well same logic can apply - auxiliary DIN enclosure for a timer, and a
remote slim switch.

How would the switch override the timer to do the boost?

Depends on the type of timer, and the type of switch. Some timers may
already include a boost capability, in which case the switch only needs
a push to make action to trigger it. Alternatively a normal timer could
be connected in parallel with a 20A plate switch, allowing the choice of
"on" or "timed".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, February 1, 2013 11:41:46 PM UTC, alamaison wrote:

But the real reason for having it in the kitchen is so that SWMBO
doesn't have to go into the outhouse (where the cylinder is) to press
the Boost button.

If the timer settings will remain fairly static, how about putting a cheap timer in the outhouse and wiring something like this in parallel with it in the kitchen:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMTGBT4.html

Mathew

On Fri, 01 Feb 2013 22:15:11 +0000, Alexander Lamaison wrote:

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

I have TimeGuard ZV700

http://www.timeguard.com/products/li...tches/7-day-di
gital-security-light-switch

Not enough power handling for you but the depth dimension on the website
for that is 50 mm. The one I have in my hand is 46 mm deep and that
includes rear projection of 13mm, leaving 33mm for the front. It's that
central bump that takes it out to 33 the flater sides are around 22 mm.
When placed aginst an MK 20 A switch it's not out of place.

Looking at the picture of the FST11A the depth:width ratio doesn't look
right for 38:85, that's more or less 1:2... Get your ruler out and
measure the image on your screen and do a bit of maths. I come out with
somthing over 20 mm for the height or 1:4 which does look more like the
image. Also look at the size of the fixing screw heads they are about 6
mm normally 3 or 4 of those make up the depth of the box.

Those dimensions are overall and there is something sticking out the
back...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" writes:

On Fri, 01 Feb 2013 22:15:11 +0000, Alexander Lamaison wrote:

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

I have TimeGuard ZV700

http://www.timeguard.com/products/li...tches/7-day-di
gital-security-light-switch

Not enough power handling for you but the depth dimension on the website
for that is 50 mm. The one I have in my hand is 46 mm deep and that
includes rear projection of 13mm, leaving 33mm for the front. It's that
central bump that takes it out to 33 the flater sides are around 22 mm.
When placed aginst an MK 20 A switch it's not out of place.

Looking at the picture of the FST11A the depth:width ratio doesn't look
right for 38:85, that's more or less 1:2... Get your ruler out and
measure the image on your screen and do a bit of maths. I come out with
somthing over 20 mm for the height or 1:4 which does look more like the
image. Also look at the size of the fixing screw heads they are about 6
mm normally 3 or 4 of those make up the depth of the box.

Those dimensions are overall and there is something sticking out the
back...

Interesting. What I might do then is buy one of these anyway because I
can always use it out of sight for the electric towel rail. Then I'll
get to see it in the flesh and test how far it really will stick out.

Thanks for the advice.

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 10:24:59 +0000, Alexander Lamaison wrote:

Interesting. What I might do then is buy one of these anyway because I
can always use it out of sight for the electric towel rail. Then I'll
get to see it in the flesh and test how far it really will stick out.

Or actually visit an electrical wholesaler to see one in the flesh before
buying... If you want to be really fussy about how it will look next to
the other accesories take them along on a dualbox and put them next to
each other, or be really cheeky and borrow those bits at the wholesalers.
B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

You could fit a deep backbox. There are 50mm ones available.

Bill

Bill Wright writes:

Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

You could fit a deep backbox. There are 50mm ones available.

I'm not sure I see how that would help. The surface part of the timer
would still protrude the same amount, wouldn't it?

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

How about:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HOE30.html



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

How about:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HOE30.html

That only handles the manual boost, not the automatic timed period. In
combination with your parallel conductors idea it might work though.

As it happens I was looking at the regs on parallel conductors
yesterday. It's not clear to me if they allow this setup.

523.8 "... measures shall be taken to achieve equal load current sharing
between them ..."

Having the timer and boost in parallel will not share the load. Unless
the boost happened to be active during the timed period, only one of the
parallel conductors would be loaded.

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

Alexander Lamaison writes:

John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

How about:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HOE30.html

That only handles the manual boost, not the automatic timed period. In
combination with your parallel conductors idea it might work though.

As it happens I was looking at the regs on parallel conductors
yesterday. It's not clear to me if they allow this setup.

523.8 "... measures shall be taken to achieve equal load current sharing
between them ..."

Having the timer and boost in parallel will not share the load. Unless
the boost happened to be active during the timed period, only one of the
parallel conductors would be loaded.

Oh. 523.8 goes on to say "... or special consideration shall be given
to the load current sharing to meet the requirements of Regulation
523.1". In other words, as long the cable passing through the timer
and the cable passing through the boost switch are each rated to supply
the 13A on their own, it's all ok?

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On 02/02/2013 14:26, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Alexander Lamaison writes:

John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override that sits
flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from surface). The
smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they are not what I would call
flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look strange
jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else have a set up like
this?

How about:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HOE30.html

That only handles the manual boost, not the automatic timed period. In
combination with your parallel conductors idea it might work though.

Indeed - either a DIN mounted timer in an enclose elsewhere, or a
conventional immersion switch somewhere less visually objectionable to
provide the normal timed operation. Then this device "wire ORed" to
provide an override.

As it happens I was looking at the regs on parallel conductors
yesterday. It's not clear to me if they allow this setup.

523.8 "... measures shall be taken to achieve equal load current sharing
between them ..."

Having the timer and boost in parallel will not share the load. Unless
the boost happened to be active during the timed period, only one of the
parallel conductors would be loaded.

Oh. 523.8 goes on to say "... or special consideration shall be given
to the load current sharing to meet the requirements of Regulation
523.1". In other words, as long the cable passing through the timer
and the cable passing through the boost switch are each rated to supply
the 13A on their own, it's all ok?

Yup, load sharing only really becomes an issue when you are attempting
to parallel up cables to increase available current carrying capacity.
You then need to consider if they are equal resistance paths and hence
will load share equally, and also whether each individual cable is
adequately fault protected by the protective device at the origin which
is sized to overload protect the group of cables.

For your circumstances you are not doing that, so its not a problem.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2013 14:26, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Alexander Lamaison writes:

John Rumm writes:

On 01/02/2013 22:15, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Does anyone know of a timeswitch =13A with boost override
that sits flush like other accessories (10mm or so out from
surface). The smallest I can find are by TimeGuard but they
are not what I would call flush (38mm!).

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...pur-timeswitch

http://www.timeguard.com/products/ti...ter-timeswitch

I want it to go alongside the kitchen sockets so would look
strange jutting out over the work surface. Does anyone else
have a set up like this?

How about:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HOE30.html

That only handles the manual boost, not the automatic timed
period. In combination with your parallel conductors idea it
might work though.

Indeed - either a DIN mounted timer in an enclose elsewhere, or a
conventional immersion switch somewhere less visually objectionable to
provide the normal timed operation. Then this device "wire ORed" to
provide an override.

As it happens I was looking at the regs on parallel conductors
yesterday. It's not clear to me if they allow this setup.

523.8 "... measures shall be taken to achieve equal load current
sharing between them ..."

Having the timer and boost in parallel will not share the load. Unless
the boost happened to be active during the timed period,
only one of the parallel conductors would be loaded.

Oh. 523.8 goes on to say "... or special consideration shall be
given to the load current sharing to meet the requirements of
Regulation 523.1". In other words, as long the cable passing
through the timer and the cable passing through the boost switch
are each rated to supply the 13A on their own, it's all ok?

Yup, load sharing only really becomes an issue when you are attempting
to parallel up cables to increase available current carrying capacity.
You then need to consider if they are equal resistance paths and hence
will load share equally, and also whether each individual cable is
adequately fault protected by the protective device at the origin
which is sized to overload protect the group of cables.

For your circumstances you are not doing that, so its not a problem.

+1

--
Adam