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Super heavy snow?
Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a
construction flaw being to blame than the snow. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792 "A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has said." Tim |
Super heavy snow?
On Jan 26, 7:11*pm, Tim+
wrote: Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a construction flaw being to blame than the snow. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792 "A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has said." Tim Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. |
Super heavy snow?
Owain wrote:
On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Owain That makes sense. I wonder how many folk think about that when fitting a cantilevered roof like that? Tim |
Super heavy snow?
On 26/01/2013 19:35, Owain wrote:
On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Which still comes down to poor construction, as Tim suggested. Colin Bignell |
Super heavy snow?
Owain wrote:
On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b |
Super heavy snow?
"Tim+" wrote in message ... Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a construction flaw being to blame than the snow. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792 "A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has said." Tim Did you manage to find the lock on your car? |
Super heavy snow?
"Andy Burns" wrote in message o.uk... Owain wrote: On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z |
Super heavy snow?
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:47:30 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Good Grief! No wonder it collapsed with just a few inches of snow on it. The supporting wall would have to have to be pretty damn strong for that design to work. I'm thinking a number of 6" I beams 3 or 4 feet into the ground, though if cast into the raft/foundations one could probably reduce that. Some one really didn't do their home work properly when they designed that or maybe it was supposed to have supports along the distant edge and the builders didn't bother. The edge looks very close to if not overhanging the boundary. -- Cheers Dave. |
Super heavy snow?
On 26/01/2013 20:30, Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message o.uk... Owain wrote: On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z Do you think its the down pipe or the 1x1 that's holding it up? Maybe the 1x1 is bracing the half finished fence? |
Super heavy snow?
Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote: http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z A bit of 50mmx50mm nailed to a fence and the plastic downpipe! You'd hope there was more than those two gallows brackets holding each of them up ... |
Super heavy snow?
dennis@home wrote:
On 26/01/2013 20:30, Andy Bartlett wrote: http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z Do you think its the down pipe or the 1x1 that's holding it up? Yes, 50mmx50mm was too generous, maybe 38mmx38mm ? |
Super heavy snow?
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:30:40 +0000, Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message o.uk... Owain wrote: On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...ouse-caves-in- under-heavy-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z Eeeep! Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered car ports. I thought I was over engineering our new (part completed) car port but now I'm not so sure. Certainly can't see any 100 * 100 steel posts holding that up. Cheers Dave R -- Pan in Vista on second Vista PC. |
Super heavy snow?
On 26/01/2013 20:30, Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message o.uk... Owain wrote: On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z I think the bracing on the left hand side one is actually just a down pipe for the gutter... -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Super heavy snow?
Andy Burns wrote:
Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b That's a whole new definition of "cantilevered" I've not come across before. JGH |
Super heavy snow?
On 26/01/2013 19:29, harry wrote:
On Jan 26, 7:11 pm, Tim+ wrote: Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a construction flaw being to blame than the snow. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792 "A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has said." Tim Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. About 8 inches just south in Sheffield. Nearly all gone now. Rob |
Super heavy snow?
Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message o.uk... Owain wrote: On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z Next door had the same arrangement! The council have removed it. -- Adam |
Super heavy snow?
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , David.WE.Roberts escribió: Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered car ports. They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves are nothing special either. Council houses. -- Adam |
Super heavy snow?
In article
, Owain wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it. -- *Corduroy pillows are making headlines. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Super heavy snow?
On Sunday 27 January 2013 12:25 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-y:
In article , Owain wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...ouse-caves-in- under-heavy-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it. It's a cavity wall, block inner. So the outer skin is not so strong given it supports no load (usually) so there's not much bearing down on it to keep the bricks from tipping over. Especially with a gable end... Sadly, it seems the wall ties were *extremely* structural, given the port falling over has torn the inner blocks off too. Either that or it was anchored right through both leaves. -- Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/ If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter, DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness. For a better method of access, please see: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet "History will be kind to me for I intend to write it." |
Super heavy snow?
On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:
Andy Bartlett wrote: "Andy Burns" wrote in message o.uk... Owain wrote: On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...ouse-caves-in- under-heavy-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z Next door had the same arrangement! The council have removed it. By council, do you mean Building Control - or are these council houses, in which case I wonder if the council actually had these fitted rather than the occupiers? That would be very interesting... -- Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/ If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter, DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness. For a better method of access, please see: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." |
Super heavy snow?
On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:
Mike Tomlinson wrote: En el art�culo , David.WE.Roberts escribi�: Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered car ports. They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves are nothing special either. Council houses. OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? -- Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/ If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter, DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness. For a better method of access, please see: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet "It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." |
Super heavy snow?
Tim Watts wrote ...
OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint. |
Super heavy snow?
Kenny wrote:
As they were tied into the wall Were they though? To me it looks like they were just bolted to the outer skin. they must have been put up when the houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint. Angle grinder! |
Super heavy snow?
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:11:57 +0000, Tim+
wrote: Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a construction flaw being to blame than the snow. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792 Typical journalist ********. "Weight of snow", my arse - more like ****ed builders and no cement in the mortar. |
Super heavy snow?
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:35:16 -0800 (PST), Owain
wrote: http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ "Neighbours in Wood Street said a loud crash bellowed out down the road and woke everyone up, with people thinking it was an earthquake or a gas explosion." Some incredibly stupid neighbours. |
Super heavy snow?
Tim Watts wrote:
On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y: Andy Bartlett wrote: "Andy Burns" wrote in message o.uk... Owain wrote: On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...ouse-caves-in- under-heavy-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z Next door had the same arrangement! The council have removed it. By council, do you mean Building Control - or are these council houses, in which case I wonder if the council actually had these fitted rather than the occupiers? That would be very interesting... South Yorkshire Housing not Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes), my mistake. -- Adam |
Super heavy snow?
ARW wrote:
Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes) Didn't know it was in the Black country. |
Super heavy snow?
On Sunday 27 January 2013 15:04 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:
Tim Watts wrote: On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y: Andy Bartlett wrote: "Andy Burns" wrote in message o.uk... Owain wrote: On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...r-house-caves- in- under-heavy-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it! http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ... http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z Next door had the same arrangement! The council have removed it. By council, do you mean Building Control - or are these council houses, in which case I wonder if the council actually had these fitted rather than the occupiers? That would be very interesting... South Yorkshire Housing not Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes), my mistake. I DO hope Builing Control are taking an interest... -- Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/ If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter, DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness. For a better method of access, please see: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet "It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." |
Super heavy snow?
On 27/01/13 12:56, Tim Watts wrote:
On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y: Mike Tomlinson wrote: En el art�culo , David.WE.Roberts escribi�: Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered car ports. They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves are nothing special either. Council houses. OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? it would not pass any competent building inspector. Either it had struts which were removed, or it was installed by a frigging mate with no clue about structural design. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
Super heavy snow?
On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint. that doesn't follow at ALL. easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
Super heavy snow?
In article , Mike Tomlinson
writes En el artículo , David.WE.Roberts escribió: Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered car ports. They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves are nothing special either. Neighbours near my former house had a cantilevered carport; I always thought it looked to be held up by optimism. I helped a friend put up one of those retractable sunblinds (-rather like a shop blind). I was very doubtful about the fixing method which was a couple of rag bolts about 200mm apart vertically at each end. It didn't seem enough to take the load when the blind was fully out. I asked on here for advice and also phoned the suppliers; they said it was OK. A couple of years later it's still up, but I reckon a strong wind or a few inches of snow would bring it down. -- Chris Holford |
Super heavy snow?
On 27/01/2013 19:54, Chris Holford wrote:
In article , Mike Tomlinson writes En el artículo , David.WE.Roberts escribió: Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered car ports. They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves are nothing special either. Neighbours near my former house had a cantilevered carport; I always thought it looked to be held up by optimism. I helped a friend put up one of those retractable sunblinds (-rather like a shop blind). I was very doubtful about the fixing method which was a couple of rag bolts about 200mm apart vertically at each end. It didn't seem enough to take the load when the blind was fully out. I asked on here for advice and also phoned the suppliers; they said it was OK. A couple of years later it's still up, but I reckon a strong wind or a few inches of snow would bring it down. Its retractable for a reason. |
Super heavy snow?
On 27/01/2013 12:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Owain wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/ which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it. Gable ends aren't usually load bearing. The roof is supported at the ends of the trussed rafters. Sometimes the floor is supported but not always. |
Super heavy snow?
On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote: Tim Watts wrote ... OK - ignore part of my earlier question... But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council? As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint. that doesn't follow at ALL. easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure. And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it. [1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Super heavy snow?
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:37:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
[1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing. Flashing doesn't go that deep, an inch at the very most, so about 25%. B-) -- Cheers Dave. |
Super heavy snow?
ARW wrote:
South Yorkshire Housing not Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes), my mistake. Akh! That's annoying. I'm a former board member and reserve performance auditor. I'm going to have some questions to ask at the next meeting. JGH |
Super heavy snow?
On Jan 27, 2:41*pm, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:11:57 +0000, Tim+ wrote: Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a construction flaw being to blame than the snow. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792 Typical journalist ********. "Weight of snow", my arse - more like ****ed builders and no cement in the mortar. The carport did not fail. The fixings did not fail. It fell down because there was insufficient weight of masonry above it to form a counterweight. It was installed in an unsuitable location. I can see why it might be attractive not to have supports as you can hit them in the dark whilst parking. |
Super heavy snow?
On Jan 27, 9:16*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote: On 27/01/2013 19:54, Chris Holford wrote: In article , Mike Tomlinson writes En el art culo , David.WE.Roberts escribi : Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered car ports. They just look so *wrong* somehow. *Mind you, the houses themselves are nothing special either. Neighbours near my former house had a cantilevered carport; I always thought it looked to be held up by optimism. I helped a friend put up one of those retractable sunblinds (-rather like a shop blind). I was very doubtful about the fixing method which was a couple of rag bolts about 200mm apart vertically at each end. It didn't seem enough to take the load when the blind was fully out. I asked on here for advice and also phoned the suppliers; they said it was OK. A couple of years later it's still up, but I reckon a strong wind or a few inches of snow would bring it down. Its retractable for a reason. So they don't deteriorate with the sun. |
Super heavy snow?
On Jan 27, 9:20*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote: On 27/01/2013 12:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , * * Owain wrote: Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there. Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable end of the council property down. http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...use-caves-in-u.... which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it. Gable ends aren't usually load bearing. The roof is supported at the ends of the trussed rafters. Sometimes the floor is supported but not always. You are a half wit. Traditional houses are load bearing by reason of the purlins. Only in houses with trussed roofs are they not. Even then the gable is supposed to be tied to the roof structure. |
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