Super heavy snow?
 

On Jan 27, 9:37*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:









On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ...

OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the
council?

As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint..

that doesn't follow at ALL.
easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure.

And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less
able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it.

[1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing.


Masonry walls stand by gravity so it makes little difference.
In any event the raking/cut would only be around 30mm.

Super heavy snow?
 

Kenny wrote:

Tim Watts wrote ...

OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council?

As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint.

Plenty of companies eager to sell them, just Google cantilever
carport:

http://www.diycarports.co.uk/cantile...ort_prices.php

http://www.windsealdoubleglazing.co....ercarport2.htm

http://123v.com/coppermine/displayim...=1/pid=32.html
We use hilti fixings for supporting our cantilever carport beams. These not only support the carport but are also capable of coping with high winds and heavy snowfalls.

http://www.diycarports.co.uk/cantile...ifications.php
The canopy has been tested at the University of Lancashire in Preston, to a snow loading of 1690kg. And to a wind load of 146mph, far in excess of whatever is likely to occur.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

Super heavy snow?
 

On 28/01/2013 07:44, harry wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:37 pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:









On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ...

OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the
council?

As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint.

that doesn't follow at ALL.
easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure.

And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less
able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it.

[1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing.


Masonry walls stand by gravity so it makes little difference.

Actually it makes quite a significant difference. Pulling a brick out
with mortar on all sides is far harder than pulling out one that has a
section of mortar above it removed and replaced with something that is
ductile and self lubricating.




--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Super heavy snow?
 

On 28/01/2013 07:41, harry wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:20 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
On 27/01/2013 12:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:









In article
,
Owain wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...use-caves-in-u...

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the
brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it.

Gable ends aren't usually load bearing.
The roof is supported at the ends of the trussed rafters.
Sometimes the floor is supported but not always.

You are a half wit.

Hello pot, meet kettle.

Traditional houses are load bearing by reason of the purlins.

Which bit of the phrase "trussed rafters" above did you not understand?

Also note that traditional purlin layouts leave a diamond section at the
top of a gable unloaded.

Only in houses with trussed roofs are they not. Even then the gable is
supposed to be tied to the roof structure.

It may have a few straps, but it does not add significant structural
strength. The tops of gable walls can be quite weak when subjected to
lateral loads.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Super heavy snow?
 

Owain wrote:
And another one, in Corby, Northants.

http://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/...snow-1-4725455

That sort of design always strikes me as weak. For not much extra cost,
you could put in some uprights tied into the wall top and bottom, and
use these to take the torque, reducing the lateral loading on the wall
at the top.

Of course, if the wall were reinforced concrete, you'd just need to tie
the fixings into the reinforcement.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Super heavy snow?
 

Owain wrote:

And another one, in Corby, Northants.
http://northantstelegraph.co.uk/comm...snow-1-4725455

http://goo.gl/maps/Bs4Jj

Didn't look as ridiculously wide as the Barnsley one, but there wasn't
that much snow on either of them (judging by nearby roofs) wonder if the
cowboys will stop fitting them to single storey gable ends?

Super heavy snow?
 

Andy Burns wrote:
Owain wrote:

And another one, in Corby, Northants.
http://northantstelegraph.co.uk/comm...snow-1-4725455

http://goo.gl/maps/Bs4Jj

Didn't look as ridiculously wide as the Barnsley one, but there wasn't
that much snow on either of them (judging by nearby roofs) wonder if
the cowboys will stop fitting them to single storey gable ends?

I had a shufi at some fitting insturctions on line which seem to call for
either 900mm of brickwork above the port or the addition of vertical braces
(as visible in that Google maps link). It looks like manufactures should be
seriously rethinking their fitting advice.

I wonder who'll pay up? Home-owners insurance, the car port fitters or the
manufacturers?

Tim

Super heavy snow?
 

En el artículo
oups.com, Owain escribió:

And another one, in Corby, Northants.

http://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/...ork-partially-
collapses-under-weight-of-snow-1-4725455

With two satellite dishes, too.. bet you-know-who will be on the 'phone
to report it real soon now.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Super heavy snow?
 

On Jan 28, 8:19*am, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/01/2013 07:44, harry wrote:









On Jan 27, 9:37 pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ...

OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the
council?

As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint.

Super heavy snow?
 

jgharston wrote:
ARW wrote:
South Yorkshire Housing not Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes),
my mistake.

Akh! That's annoying. I'm a former board member and reserve
performance auditor. I'm going to have some questions to ask at the
next meeting.

Don't forget to report back.

--
Adam

Super heavy snow?
 

On 28/01/2013 07:41, harry wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:20 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
On 27/01/2013 12:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:









In article
,
Owain wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...use-caves-in-u...

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the
brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it.

Gable ends aren't usually load bearing.
The roof is supported at the ends of the trussed rafters.
Sometimes the floor is supported but not always.

You are a half wit.
Traditional houses are load bearing by reason of the purlins.

Why do you think I specifically said trussed rafters you idiot.


Only in houses with trussed roofs are they not. Even then the gable is
supposed to be tied to the roof structure.

Super heavy snow?
 

On Monday, January 28, 2013 4:14:17 PM UTC, harry wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:19*am, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/01/2013 07:44, harry wrote:



















On Jan 27, 9:37 pm, John Rumm wrote:

On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:



On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:

Tim Watts wrote ...



OK - ignore part of my earlier question...



But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the

council?



As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the

houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint.



that doesn't follow at ALL.

easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure.



And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less

able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it.



[1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing.



Masonry walls stand by gravity so it makes little difference.



Actually it makes quite a significant difference. Pulling a brick out

with mortar on all sides is far harder than pulling out one that has a

section of mortar above it removed and replaced with something that is

ductile and self lubricating.



--

Cheers,



John.



/================================================== ===============\

| * * * * *Internode Ltd - *http://www.internode.co.uk* * * * * *|

|-----------------------------------------------------------------|

| * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *|

\================================================= ================/



The bricks have not pulled out.

The whole wall has tipped over.

It was not heavy enough to counter the weight of snow.

If it had been a two storey building there would have been no problem.

Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support.

Super heavy snow?
 

fred wrote:
On Monday, January 28, 2013 4:14:17 PM UTC, harry wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:19 am, John Rumm wrote:

If it had been a two storey building there would have been no problem.

Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy
closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support.

But, judging by the Streetview images, it had been fitted with the extra
bracing down the wall so probably was fitted as per manufacturer's
instructions.

Tim

Super heavy snow?
 

fred wrote:

Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support.

But it had an extended bracket below.

Super heavy snow?
 

Andy Burns wrote:

fred wrote:

Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the
canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support.

But it had an extended bracket below.

Both of the collapsed ones might have survived if fitted on such long
brackets all the way along e.g.

http://123v.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/Carports/normal_cantilever_carport_with_swan_neck_bungalow_ brackets.jpg

Super heavy snow?
 

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Andy Burns wrote:

fred wrote:

Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the
canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support.

But it had an extended bracket below.

Both of the collapsed ones might have survived if fitted on such long
brackets all the way along e.g.

http://123v.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/Carports/normal_cantilever_carport_with_swan_neck_bungalow_ brackets.jpg

I don't see the point in going to that much trouble to cantilever it
when the carport normally has the outer end at the fence and the
fence is where the support verticals would be.

Super heavy snow?
 

On Jan 28, 7:44*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:37*pm, John Rumm wrote:









On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ...

OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the
council?

As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint.

Super heavy snow?
 

On Jan 29, 8:46*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
fred wrote:

Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the
canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support.

But it had an extended bracket below.

Both of the collapsed ones might have survived if fitted on such long
brackets all the way along e.g.

http://123v.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/Carports/normal_ca...

Yes, that is a better arrangement. But less visually attractive.

Super heavy snow?
 

On Jan 30, 10:30*am, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:44*am, harry wrote:









On Jan 27, 9:37*pm, John Rumm wrote:

On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ...

OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the
council?

As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. *There is flushing along the wall above the joint.

that doesn't follow at ALL.
easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure.

And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less
able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it.

[1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing.

Masonry walls stand by gravity so it makes little difference.

It does when you have a car port applying a turning moment to the
wall.

MBQ

But the fulcrum is outside of that moment. The fulcrum is on the lower
edge of the brackets. So the slot cut is neither here nor there.

In any event no simple masonry can withstand significant tension
forces.
Which is why it fell down. The tensile forces exceeded the
compressive (ie gravity) ones

Super heavy snow?
 

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jan 29, 8:46 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
fred wrote:

Looking at the one in Corby before the collapse, the end of the
canopy closest to the road has virtually no bricks above the support.

But it had an extended bracket below.

Both of the collapsed ones might have survived if fitted on such long
brackets all the way along e.g.

http://123v.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/Carports/normal_ca...

Yes, that is a better arrangement. But less visually attractive.

MUCH worse than 50 or 75mm posts on the outer edge IMO,
particularly when the outer edge is on the fence line so there
is no need to have a cantilever so she who must be obeyed
cant run into them.

Super heavy snow?
 

Tim+ wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

"A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a
part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has
said."

I wonder if Yorkshire Carports-R-Us also fit balconies?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-21474074

"West Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service said the injured people had been
standing on the balcony when it collapsed and they fell about 10ft (3m)
to a patio below."

Super heavy snow?
 

On 16/02/2013 19:47, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

"A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a
part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has
said."

I wonder if Yorkshire Carports-R-Us also fit balconies?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-21474074

"West Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service said the injured people had been
standing on the balcony when it collapsed and they fell about 10ft (3m)
to a patio below."

That's a shelf and you shouldn't stand on shelves.

Super heavy snow?
 

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:10:31 -0800 (PST), Owain wrote:

http://www.brighouseecho.co.uk/news/...te-over-hotel-
scheme-1-4777760

And how many Cassa Hotel's on Elland Road, Brighouse owned by a Jack
McDaid are there?

--
Cheers
Dave.