ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

Jim K

Jim K :
ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

--
Mike Barnes

On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

mmm you don;t really get this do you?

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

Jim K

In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article
,
Jim K wrote:

On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.
mmm you don;t really get this do you?
Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely
obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

Indeed. You bid your maximum at the last minute. Anything else is for
saps.

Other than making a single bid to prevent the seller from removing the
item from sale.

--
Simon

12) The Second Rule of Expectations
An EXPECTATION is a Premeditated resentment.

Jim K wrote:

On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:

if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

The way eBay auctions are run, that's true. I'm quite surprised they
haven't experimented with different types of auction, e.g. a single
sealed bid format, where no-ones' bid is revealed until the end, no
point in people trying to create multiple accounts as they'd out-bid
themselves, it would make genuine bidders *think* what they were willing
to pay for an item, rather than see if they could sneakily get something
cheap ... you only get a bargain if nobody else wants it.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Jim K wrote:

On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:

if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

The way eBay auctions are run, that's true.

I'm quite surprised they haven't experimented with different types of
auction,

Some others have tho, particularly extending the closing time
when there are last minute bids. It didn't really help much at all.

e.g. a single sealed bid format, where no-ones' bid is revealed until the
end,

That is seen in other areas with tenders most obviously.

no point in people trying to create multiple accounts as they'd out-bid
themselves, it would make genuine bidders *think* what they were willing
to pay for an item, rather than see if they could sneakily get something
cheap ... you only get a bargain if nobody else wants it.

Trouble is that that's very common with those who flog
their stuff using ebay as an alternative to buy nows etc.

Jim K :
On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

mmm you don;t really get this do you?

I think I do.

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

True. I'd have mentioned bidding late if I thought it was relevant.
There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid. Using sniping software is a
good idea if you're a frequent bidder and you're used to the software
and you're keeping it up to date in line with changes to the eBay site.
Otherwise a late manual bid might be more reliable.

--
Mike Barnes

On 12/01/2013 05:13, usenet2012 wrote:
In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article
,
Jim K wrote:

On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.
mmm you don;t really get this do you?
Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

Indeed. You bid your maximum at the last minute. Anything else is for
saps.

Other than making a single bid to prevent the seller from removing the
item from sale.

Since when did that ever stop anybody?
--
David

On 12/01/2013 09:38, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :
On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

mmm you don;t really get this do you?

I think I do.

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

True. I'd have mentioned bidding late if I thought it was relevant.
There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid.

Yes but you won't want to top up your bid at that point - because that's
when you *do* bid the maximum amount you're prepared to pay (assuming
it's not already above that point); then win or lose you're guaranteed
to be happy.

If you bid early, how can you *possibly* end up paying less than if you
bid late?

Assuming I'm able to bid in the dying seconds, I would never bid more
than once on an auction.

--
David

Lobster :
On 12/01/2013 09:38, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :
On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

mmm you don;t really get this do you?

I think I do.

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

True. I'd have mentioned bidding late if I thought it was relevant.
There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid.

Yes but you won't want to top up your bid at that point

Actually I *never* want to top up my bid at any point, ever.

- because that's when you *do* bid the maximum amount you're prepared
to pay

I *always* bid the maximum I'm prepared to pay. No exceptions.

I don't know why you're banging on about timing, which I agree is
important, but I never mentioned it because it's not relevant to the
point I was making. There are good reasons for bidding late, but
sometimes it's not possible, and I bid early. Regardless of timing, I
only bid once, I recommend that others do the same, and that's the
(only) point I was making.

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes wrote:

I *always* bid the maximum I'm prepared to pay. No exceptions.

If everyone bid once, early there'd be no need for late bids; but
everyone doesn't so there is.

On 12 Jan, 15:09, Mike Barnes wrote:
Lobster :









On 12/01/2013 09:38, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :
On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

mmm you don;t really get this do you?

I think I do.

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

True. I'd have mentioned bidding late if I thought it was relevant.
There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid.

Yes but you won't want to top up your bid at that point

Actually I *never* want to top up my bid at any point, ever.

- because that's when you *do* bid the maximum amount you're prepared
to pay

I *always* bid the maximum I'm prepared to pay. No exceptions.

I don't know why you're banging on about timing, which I agree is
important, but I never mentioned it because it's not relevant to the
point I was making.

there was a point? I thought you were banging on about placing one
highest bid ? the timing of when that is placed makes you a halfwit
mug or a potential winner...

There are good reasons for bidding late, but
sometimes it's not possible, and I bid early. Regardless of timing, I
only bid once, I recommend that others do the same, and that's the
(only) point I was making.

--
Mike Barnes

I suggest you look into "auctionsniper.com"

I have NEVER had to update anything in mumble years, so IME bidding
late is not only ALWAYS possible, it's childsplay, why would anyone
not?

Jim K

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 05:13:19 +0000, usenet2012
wrote:

Indeed. You bid your maximum at the last minute. Anything else is for
saps.

Other than making a single bid to prevent the seller from removing the
item from sale.

I've noticed the Germans do that a lot, as well as a second bid to
signal they want it, I suppose.

On 11/01/2013 23:07, Tim Streater wrote:


Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

Indeed. You bid your maximum at the last minute. Anything else is for saps.

Agree I put my Maximum bid a sniping tool on my phone, and leave it at
that, I win or I don't .... advantage is I don't get tempted to increase
at last moment.
With more & more people using sniping s/w ... there can be significant
volume of bids in last 5 sec

Jim K :
On 12 Jan, 15:09, Mike Barnes wrote:
Lobster :









On 12/01/2013 09:38, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :
On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

ebay 390524781882

click on bids

click on "show automatic bids"

click on each of the two low feedback score bidders "fighting it out"
whilst pushing the early bidder up.

see the changing of successive bid increments by +/- 50p trying to
feel for the early bidders max bid?

flEabay indeed

I haven't bothered to look at these bids but I will observe that in
general, things would be lot simpler if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

mmm you don;t really get this do you?

I think I do.

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

True. I'd have mentioned bidding late if I thought it was relevant.
There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid.

Yes but you won't want to top up your bid at that point

Actually I *never* want to top up my bid at any point, ever.

- because that's when you *do* bid the maximum amount you're prepared
to pay

I *always* bid the maximum I'm prepared to pay. No exceptions.

I don't know why you're banging on about timing, which I agree is
important, but I never mentioned it because it's not relevant to the
point I was making.

there was a point? I thought you were banging on about placing one
highest bid ?

That was the point. The OP described a situation where bidders were
"fighting it out". That's what I was responding to. If you only place
one bid, there is no "fighting it out". *Regardless* of when you place
that bid.

the timing of when that is placed makes you a halfwit
mug or a potential winner...

That's simplistic and irrelevant. There is no "fighting it out" if you
only bid once, whether that bid is placed early or late. That's all I'm
saying. Yes, timing is important, but it's not what I was talking about.

--
Mike Barnes

On 12 Jan, 15:57, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 05:13:19 +0000, usenet2012

wrote:
Indeed. You bid your maximum at the last minute. Anything else is for
saps.

Other than making a single bid to prevent the seller from removing the
item from sale.

I've noticed the Germans do that a lot, as well as a second bid to
signal they want it, I suppose.

also used by shillers using low start prices to save themselves
listing fees "99p start" with an early/immediate covering bid, if no-
one shows up by 25 hours before "auction" end there will regularly be
another bid by same "bidder" to insure against the item going too
cheap.

One can if one dares, push this covering bid up (like a shiller
would).
The shiller, naturally, will never pay for the goods and sale will be
cancelled for some flaky reason and no-one will be any the wiser...

Jim K

On 12 Jan, 16:11, Mike Barnes wrote:

That was the point. The OP described a situation where bidders were
"fighting it out".

I am the OP.

I used quotes around "fighting it out" as (had you bothered to look -
the fact that you couldn't be arsed frankly rather undermines all your
"points") the "fighting it out" is clearly (to me anyway) false shill
bidding.
*There is no "fight" in this instance*.
The shill bidder(s) are pushing up the price of the early bidder -
hence early bidding of a top price is for mugs/cretins.

That's what I was responding to. If you only place
one bid, there is no "fighting it out". *Regardless* of when you place
that bid.

the timing of when that is placed makes you a halfwit
mug or a potential winner...

That's simplistic and irrelevant.

It's true and entirely relevant to me.

Just to recap, your recommended strategy for ebay is:- bid once early
and if you end up paying top price due to fraudulent bidding, that's
OK with you? OK fine if that cranks your handle so be it.

You bid early & get shilled early = you are a mug.
You snipe late, if you win, you possibly pay less than you were
(technically) prepared to pay = winner, or you pay your max you know
the market = winner. If you lose no worries, nothings lost.

Sniping "last thing" removes the potential for your bid being shilled
to it's max - that's the whole entire point of all of this.

Simples

Jim K

Jim K :
Just to recap, your recommended strategy for ebay is:- bid once early
and if you end up paying top price due to fraudulent bidding, that's
OK with you?

No. I never recommended bidding early. If you think I did, please say
where.

(Thanks for the recap, which explains the misunderstanding.)

--
Mike Barnes

In message , Lobster
writes
Indeed. You bid your maximum at the last minute. Anything else is for
saps.

Other than making a single bid to prevent the seller from removing the
item from sale.

Since when did that ever stop anybody?

Have you sold anything on Ebay?

If you list something for sale by auction & no one has made a bid
towards the end of the listing it is possible to end the listing early
to avoid selling at a very low price. However if there has been a bid
then you have to let the auction run its course.

--
Simon

12) The Second Rule of Expectations
An EXPECTATION is a Premeditated resentment.

I don't know why you're banging on about timing, which I agree is important, but I never mentioned it because it's not relevant to the point I was making. There are good reasons for bidding late, but sometimes it's not possible, *and I bid early*.

My arterixes.

Perhaps that reminds you of when you said you bid early?

Jim K

On Jan 13, 12:11 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2013-01-12, Jim K wrote:

I am the OP.

[5 lines snipped]

The shill bidder(s) are pushing up the price of the early bidder -
hence early bidding of a top price is for mugs/cretins.

And do you think calling people "mugs" and "cretins" is going to achieve
anything other than them killfiling you and hoping you die of bladder
cancer?

Simples

Appropriate sig.


appropriate shrug

spade is a spade, sensitive types needn't respond

Jim K

On Jan 13, 8:16 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2013-01-13, Jim K wrote:



On Jan 13, 12:11 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2013-01-12, Jim K wrote:

I am the OP.

[5 lines snipped]

The shill bidder(s) are pushing up the price of the early bidder -
hence early bidding of a top price is for mugs/cretins.

And do you think calling people "mugs" and "cretins" is going to achieve
anything other than them killfiling you and hoping you die of bladder
cancer?

Simples

Appropriate sig.

appropriate shrug

spade is a spade, sensitive types needn't respond

Enjoy your bladder cancer.

? troll?

Jim K

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:35:46 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Jim K wrote:

On 11 Jan, 22:53, Mike Barnes wrote:

if people just bid their maximum
and then sat back rather than fannying around upping their bids.

Better to use a sniping service last thing.... as is shurely obvious,
bidding early is dumb.

The way eBay auctions are run, that's true. I'm quite surprised they
haven't experimented with different types of auction, e.g. a single
sealed bid format, where no-ones' bid is revealed until the end, no
point in people trying to create multiple accounts as they'd out-bid
themselves, it would make genuine bidders *think* what they were willing
to pay for an item, rather than see if they could sneakily get something
cheap ... you only get a bargain if nobody else wants it.

You might find that this results in items being sold at lower prices.
Ebay wouldn't want that.

I use a tool called JBidWatcher to do the sniping for me.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:38:04 AM UTC, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

"There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid. "

But that is a very important distinction. If you bid very late then you really do bid your maximum because the seller cannot shill bid you (he knows there is no time for you to revise it). If you bid earlier the seller can shill bid you and raise you up to just beyond your maximum knowing that you have time to add just one more increment.

"RobertL" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:38:04 AM UTC, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

"There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid. "

But that is a very important distinction. If you bid very late then you
really do bid your maximum because the seller cannot shill bid you (he knows
there is no time for you to revise it). If you bid earlier the seller can
shill bid you and raise you up to just beyond your maximum knowing that you
have time to add just one more increment.

Far be it from me to add anything but I got caught on this a couple of years
ago. I stopped bidding and then started putting in late bids. Late
bidding does stop this but it also means you have to be around ( snipes
don't always work)

Something I came across recently ( buying a gift for mum - only place I
could get it) was being bid up on the item ( including being sniped in
the last three minutes!) Only then to be sent an e mail telling me the
highest bidder had pulled out and I could have the item for my previous
highest bid.

I am damn sure it was a scam by the seller to get my highest bid price
( and having calculated over it) ended up giving me a " second chance"

Ebay is not honest. Use it if you have to but be aware they do all sorts on
there and get away with it.

On 14/01/2013 12:31, sweetheart wrote:

"RobertL" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:38:04 AM UTC, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

"There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid. "

But that is a very important distinction. If you bid very late then you
really do bid your maximum because the seller cannot shill bid you (he
knows there is no time for you to revise it). If you bid earlier the
seller can shill bid you and raise you up to just beyond your maximum
knowing that you have time to add just one more increment.



Its fairly obvious that the shill bidder can put in a maximum bid and
that will cause anyone putting in a bid later, even 1 second before the
end, to have their bid increased up to the shills maximum unless the
shill has bid too much.

On 14/01/2013 12:31, sweetheart wrote:

"RobertL" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:38:04 AM UTC, Mike Barnes wrote:
Jim K :

"There is a vague connection (but no more than that) in that if you bid
*very* late there's no time to up your bid. "

But that is a very important distinction. If you bid very late then you
really do bid your maximum because the seller cannot shill bid you (he
knows there is no time for you to revise it). If you bid earlier the
seller can shill bid you and raise you up to just beyond your maximum
knowing that you have time to add just one more increment.


How can you bid beyond your maximum? If you bid higher, you re-define
your maximum.

--
Rod

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:19:17 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:

Enjoy your bladder cancer.

? troll?

Not even that, I'm sorry to say. Just an arsehole.

I did not see any shill bidding in 390524781882. I see a biddier who was nibble bidding trying to outbid someone else's proxy. Shill bidders often have a lot of retractions. The two bidders do not have any retractions.

It is not unusual for people, usually new members, to see shill bidding where none exists.