Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.

Do any of the esteemed panel of Usenets uk.d-i-y wisest have any
experiences with such modern fandanglements from brands to pricing and
longevity etc compared to a trusty kettle?

I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side of
things would help prolong it's life.

I would be willing to look at a "plumbed in" one but that would entail
drilling a hole through the granite worktop which doesn't sound like
much fun...

Thanks in advance..
Cheers Pete@ (see from for domain name)

On 06/01/2013 12:17, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:
Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.

Do any of the esteemed panel of Usenets uk.d-i-y wisest have any
experiences with such modern fandanglements from brands to pricing and
longevity etc compared to a trusty kettle?

I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side of
things would help prolong it's life.

I would be willing to look at a "plumbed in" one but that would entail
drilling a hole through the granite worktop which doesn't sound like
much fun...

Thanks in advance..
Cheers Pete@ (see from for domain name)

When thinking about one for my mother (who is somewhat shaky so
dangerous with a kettle), I read review after review. Could not find any
model which did not seem to have Achilles's heels. Hop over to Amazon to
see what I mean.

Standard domestic water softeners replace calcium ions in the incoming
with sodium ions in the outgoing. So you can end up raising your sodium
intake with the health consequences that might have.

--
Rod

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 12:17:23 +0000, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;ª) wrote:

Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.

Truely "instantaneous"? If so the rate of supply will either be a trickle
or it's keeping a reservior of water hot (using energy to do so).

An 85C rise in water temp (10C cold mains to 95C "boiling") at 2.97kW
gives a flow rate of 0.5l/min. Yer average mug is about 250ml, 30 seconds
to fill your mug and another 30 seconds for hers? And note that is 95C
water not 100C.

I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side
of things would help prolong it's life.

What sort of softener? Consuming the water from a salt based softener is
not recomended for health reasons.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 06/01/2013 12:39, polygonum wrote:

When thinking about one for my mother (who is somewhat shaky so
dangerous with a kettle), I read review after review. Could not find any
model which did not seem to have Achilles's heels. Hop over to Amazon to
see what I mean.

Just reading through reviews of the "breville hot cup" or something.
Don't like the idea myself, seems too easy to dispense too much or not
enough water.

Standard domestic water softeners replace calcium ions in the incoming
with sodium ions in the outgoing. So you can end up raising your sodium
intake with the health consequences that might have.

From what I believe the amount of sodium added by softened water is
actually very low and would still be classed as "very low" and not
worthy of consideration under normal circumstances.
We do have a filtered hard water tap for cold drinks etc anyway.

Thanks for input and thoughts.

Cheers
Pete @

""Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)"" wrote in message
...

Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.

Do any of the esteemed panel of Usenets uk.d-i-y wisest have any
experiences with such modern fandanglements from brands to pricing and
longevity etc compared to a trusty kettle?

I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side of
things would help prolong it's life.

I would be willing to look at a "plumbed in" one but that would entail
drilling a hole through the granite worktop which doesn't sound like
much fun...

Thanks in advance..
Cheers Pete@ (see from for domain name)

We've installed one as part of our total house re-furb. It's an under sink
one (Insinkerator). Seems pretty good so far but then we've not moved in yet
and have only used it once or twice as a test. The builders seem to like it
!

AWEM

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:21:05 +0000
"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:

On 06/01/2013 12:39, polygonum wrote:

When thinking about one for my mother (who is somewhat shaky so
dangerous with a kettle), I read review after review. Could not
find any model which did not seem to have Achilles's heels. Hop
over to Amazon to see what I mean.

Just reading through reviews of the "breville hot cup" or something.
Don't like the idea myself, seems too easy to dispense too much or not
enough water.

Standard domestic water softeners replace calcium ions in the
incoming with sodium ions in the outgoing. So you can end up
raising your sodium intake with the health consequences that might
have.

From what I believe the amount of sodium added by softened water is
actually very low and would still be classed as "very low" and not
worthy of consideration under normal circumstances.
We do have a filtered hard water tap for cold drinks etc anyway.

Thanks for input and thoughts.

Cheers
Pete @


I agree with you, from what I read, the amount of sodium actually
remaining in softened water is minimal, it gets flushed out with the
impurities when the softener regenerates.

--
Davey.

Tell her that they use more electricity and produce more CO2 to
produce a given amount of hot water, and buy her a kettle.

You may care to read the subthread started by myself 7th post down
here, or you may wish to get a life instead ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...tv/Q5-CuXDSQ8M

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 12:17:23 +0000, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)"
wrote:

Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On 06/01/13 13:02, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 12:17:23 +0000, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;ª) wrote:

Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.

Truely "instantaneous"? If so the rate of supply will either be a trickle
or it's keeping a reservior of water hot (using energy to do so).

An 85C rise in water temp (10C cold mains to 95C "boiling") at 2.97kW
gives a flow rate of 0.5l/min. Yer average mug is about 250ml, 30 seconds
to fill your mug and another 30 seconds for hers? And note that is 95C
water not 100C.

I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side
of things would help prolong it's life.

What sort of softener? Consuming the water from a salt based softener is
not recomended for health reasons.

OTOH no one has any real data to support that position. Like so many
other things its a 'we don't know, so play safe' that morphs into 'its
worser than the worsest thing there ever was - the government
regulations say so'.

Bit like low level radiation.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 06/01/2013 13:48, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:21:05 +0000
"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:

On 06/01/2013 12:39, polygonum wrote:

When thinking about one for my mother (who is somewhat shaky so
dangerous with a kettle), I read review after review. Could not
find any model which did not seem to have Achilles's heels. Hop
over to Amazon to see what I mean.

Just reading through reviews of the "breville hot cup" or something.
Don't like the idea myself, seems too easy to dispense too much or not
enough water.

Standard domestic water softeners replace calcium ions in the
incoming with sodium ions in the outgoing. So you can end up
raising your sodium intake with the health consequences that might
have.

From what I believe the amount of sodium added by softened water is
actually very low and would still be classed as "very low" and not
worthy of consideration under normal circumstances.
We do have a filtered hard water tap for cold drinks etc anyway.

Thanks for input and thoughts.

Cheers
Pete @


I agree with you, from what I read, the amount of sodium actually
remaining in softened water is minimal, it gets flushed out with the
impurities when the softener regenerates.

Sorry - how does that work? The sodium does not get flushed out by the
regeneration process; the calcium does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softening

In its normal operation it replaces calcium ions in the water by sodium
ions. For every calcium ion it removes, it will add in two sodium ions.

I have no idea how much sodium that would represent in your situation.
Nor anything about your health. Hence my very non-specific comment
ending "the health consequences that might have", leaving it for you to
decide if that is significant.

--
Rod

In article ,
Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:

I would be willing to look at a "plumbed in" one but that would entail
drilling a hole through the granite worktop which doesn't sound like
much fun...

I had a look at some of those plumbed in units recently after seeing
a friend with one... Ye gods, they're expensive!

e.g.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...Tap/index.html

I know there are stand-alone machines that sort of do it - e.g. my coffee
maker can dispense water that's sort of hot, but I'd not consider it to
make tea with (and it's not instant - needs a 45 second warm up, so I'd
need to leave it on all the time)

Gordon

On 06/01/2013 13:50, Java Jive wrote:
Tell her that they use more electricity and produce more CO2 to
produce a given amount of hot water, and buy her a kettle.

Its unlikely they produce more CO2 than a kettle assuming it is one of
those Tefal quick cup types that you fill with cold and it dispenses the
hot (near boiling) through its spout.

Its also unlikely to use more than a boil and then dispense type like
the tefal express boil.

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:50:03 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

You may care to read the subthread started by myself 7th post down
here, or you may wish to get a life instead ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...tv/Q5-CuXDSQ8M

"so I thought: "If
even the brands with a reputable history are now as crap as everything
else, why not buy the cheapest and cut your losses!"."

True, dat.
Despite paying 40 and 50 quid for kettles, they don't last any longer
per pound/euro than supermarket cheapies, some of which continue to
soldier on long past their expire-by date.

In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes
On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:50:03 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

You may care to read the subthread started by myself 7th post down
here, or you may wish to get a life instead ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...h.digital-tv/Q
5-CuXDSQ8M

"so I thought: "If
even the brands with a reputable history are now as crap as everything
else, why not buy the cheapest and cut your losses!"."

True, dat.
Despite paying 40 and 50 quid for kettles, they don't last any longer
per pound/euro than supermarket cheapies, some of which continue to
soldier on long past their expire-by date.

The last Dualit lasted over 16 years so the replacement should see me
out. Still the noisiest kettle in the world!

--
Tim Lamb

On 06/01/2013 14:59, polygonum wrote:

I have no idea how much sodium that would represent in your situation.
Nor anything about your health. Hence my very non-specific comment
ending "the health consequences that might have", leaving it for you to
decide if that is significant.

I think the thing to consider is it is ions, and also sodium not the
salt sodium chloride.

Taken from a Softner manufacturers website (so might be a little biased)

"Therefore, the equivalent increase in salt intake by the average
individual drinking two litres of softened water a day is 0.696 g. This
is about one tenth of a teaspoonful."

http://www.harveywatersofteners.co.u...h-salt-is-that

On 06/01/2013 13:50, Java Jive wrote:
Tell her that they use more electricity and produce more CO2 to
produce a given amount of hot water, and buy her a kettle.

You may care to read the subthread started by myself 7th post down
here, or you may wish to get a life instead ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...tv/Q5-CuXDSQ8M

:¬)
Just found it.

The whole "only boil what you need" marketing theory doesn't do it for
me as a reason. This latent heat in the remaining water is still warming
the room and not just vanishing, likewise it keeps the water at an
elevated temperature for a very long time which would significantly
reduce the heat required to re-boil a few hours later.
Perhaps a better kettle idea might be a super-insulated one for the
eco-warriors who think boiling just one cup at a time will save the
planet and cut electricity bills in half..
;¬)

Pete @
--
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/globegripz
The evolution of grip training has arrived.

On 06/01/2013 15:17, Gordon Henderson wrote:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...Tap/index.html

I know there are stand-alone machines that sort of do it - e.g. my coffee
maker can dispense water that's sort of hot, but I'd not consider it to
make tea with (and it's not instant - needs a 45 second warm up, so I'd
need to leave it on all the time)

Yes I quickly skirted past one with a tank when I saw it had a standby
power consumption of "just 60W"

bwahahaaahaaaaa

On 06/01/2013 17:00, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:
On 06/01/2013 14:59, polygonum wrote:

I have no idea how much sodium that would represent in your situation.
Nor anything about your health. Hence my very non-specific comment
ending "the health consequences that might have", leaving it for you to
decide if that is significant.

I think the thing to consider is it is ions, and also sodium not the
salt sodium chloride.

Taken from a Softner manufacturers website (so might be a little biased)

"Therefore, the equivalent increase in salt intake by the average
individual drinking two litres of softened water a day is 0.696 g. This
is about one tenth of a teaspoonful."

http://www.harveywatersofteners.co.u...h-salt-is-that



"The United States Department of Health and Human Services recommends
that individuals consume no more than 1500€“2300 mg of sodium (3750€“5750
mg of salt) per day depending on age."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt

But some people are at particular risk - e.g. those with kidney disease.
Hence it has to be each person's decision whether an additional 0.696 g
is, or is not, significant. And some people have a need for much larger
quantities of salt - e.g Addison's disease.

--
Rod

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:51:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What sort of softener? Consuming the water from a salt based softener
is not recomended for health reasons.

OTOH no one has any real data to support that position. Like so many
other things its a 'we don't know, so play safe' that morphs into 'its
worser than the worsest thing there ever was - the government
regulations say so'.

Maybe but too much FSVO "too much" salt isn't good for you. If the 4.75g
of salt/day that the US say is what the human body finds OK another 0.7g
though not excessive is significant. How signifcant may well depend on
your diet, lot of processed foods, prepared meals etc that tend to have
"high" salt content could well mean that those individuals are starting
to have rather high sodium intakes.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , grimly4
@gmail.com says...

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:50:03 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

You may care to read the subthread started by myself 7th post down
here, or you may wish to get a life instead ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...tv/Q5-CuXDSQ8M

"so I thought: "If
even the brands with a reputable history are now as crap as everything
else, why not buy the cheapest and cut your losses!"."

True, dat.
Despite paying 40 and 50 quid for kettles, they don't last any longer
per pound/euro than supermarket cheapies, some of which continue to
soldier on long past their expire-by date.

Depends on how hard your local water is.

No electric kettle has lasted less than 12 years in our household.

All have been traditional types - Russell Hobbs K2, K3 or similar.

To be fair, that means we haven't had many - so you may think that's not
a representative sample.

The best current example I can find of a 'designed to last' kettle is
"Burco Commercial Kettle 2 Litre"

--
Sam

Yes, well, depends on how you pour the water from a kettle. If you get into
the habit of waiting till its no longer quite boiling before pouring you
seldom get burned. Also there are frames and a funnel for filling hot water
bottles if people want to do that. Personally I'd use a hot water bottle
over the other types and ideas its far longer lasting and less hassle.
As for the instant things, Son of instant shower eh, well look like a
solution looking for a problem to me. Huge shrt lived current drain too.

I guess you could do the water in the Microwave, seen some microwave
kettles about, but one needs to be careful of the explosion effect water has
if you remove it when it should be boiling but isn't,

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 06/01/2013 12:17, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:
Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.

Do any of the esteemed panel of Usenets uk.d-i-y wisest have any
experiences with such modern fandanglements from brands to pricing and
longevity etc compared to a trusty kettle?

I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side of
things would help prolong it's life.

I would be willing to look at a "plumbed in" one but that would entail
drilling a hole through the granite worktop which doesn't sound like
much fun...

Thanks in advance..
Cheers Pete@ (see from for domain name)

When thinking about one for my mother (who is somewhat shaky so dangerous
with a kettle), I read review after review. Could not find any model which
did not seem to have Achilles's heels. Hop over to Amazon to see what I
mean.

Standard domestic water softeners replace calcium ions in the incoming
with sodium ions in the outgoing. So you can end up raising your sodium
intake with the health consequences that might have.

--
Rod

On 06/01/2013 18:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes, well, depends on how you pour the water from a kettle. If you get into
the habit of waiting till its no longer quite boiling before pouring you
seldom get burned. Also there are frames and a funnel for filling hot water
bottles if people want to do that. Personally I'd use a hot water bottle
over the other types and ideas its far longer lasting and less hassle.
As for the instant things, Son of instant shower eh, well look like a
solution looking for a problem to me. Huge shrt lived current drain too.

I guess you could do the water in the Microwave, seen some microwave
kettles about, but one needs to be careful of the explosion effect water has
if you remove it when it should be boiling but isn't,

Brian

Heating water in a microwave is OK if you are comfortable with both the
superheating problem which you mention and making a decent guess at how
low it will take. Aged mothers tend not to be so good at these things.
At least she is familiar with kettles - so for now we got her a lighter
one which she seems to manage better.

--
Rod

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:11:20 +0000, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)"
wrote:

The whole "only boil what you need" marketing theory doesn't do it for
me as a reason. This latent heat in the remaining water is still warming
the room and not just vanishing

But it does that summer as well as winter, when it would be more
helpful if it were cooling the room.

likewise it keeps the water at an
elevated temperature for a very long time which would significantly
reduce the heat required to re-boil a few hours later.

Almost certainly not significantly enough to matter. Most of the
energy lost from the water is lost early on when it's hottest (reread
the remarks in my 'thought experiment' about 'temperature gradient'.
The fact that the water may, if your kettle is quite well insulated,
seem to be lukewarm some hours later is not going to compensate for
the loss of heat that by then has already occurred.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY AT ALL that boiling more water than is
needed for the specific purpose for which it is being boiled can ever
be more economical or ecological than boiling just sufficient for that
purpose - if you don't understand that, you haven't understood the
physics of heat loss that I was trying to explain in the 'thought
experiment'.

Perhaps a better kettle idea might be a super-insulated one for the
eco-warriors who think boiling just one cup at a time will save the
planet and cut electricity bills in half..

See my description of the eco-kettle I did try - it sounds
reasonable that some of the heat lost while boiling a quantity of
water then required goes to heating the reservoir of water which would
be boiled later - but it didn't work out in practice, because:

1) Its ridiculously short working life, which would have wiped out
any gains made over the course of it, through the energy consumed in
manufacturing and disposal of it written off as an overhead over its
life - the shorter its working life, the higher the overhead.
Something that only lasts two years when it could and should last at
least five and preferably ten is neither economical nor ecological.

2) As outlined in the 'thought experiment', allowing even just a
little ambient heat to escape into the reservoir to pre-heat it 'for
next time' increases the heat that is lost while boiling the kettle.
Suppose that in boiling a cup of water x joules are lost to the water
in the reservoir. By the time the next cup is boiled, some of that x
is now dissipated into the wider environment, so less than x remains
in the water let down into the kettle for the next boiling. So heat
has been needlessly lost.

If you really wanted to use the residual heat of the kettle from a
given boiling, then you could try the following. Put just enough
water in the kettle for purpose, boil it, pour it off and use it, and
then immediately from the tap pour in the minimum quantity of water
that you are likely to use for the next boiling, say one cupful. This
water will then be preheated by absorbing heat from the kettle. Some
of this energy will inevitably be lost by the next boiling, but enough
of it may remain to be significant. Alternatively, the extra body of
water may by evaporation increase the rate of cooling of the kettle,
and therefore may actually be counter-productive, though I rather
think not. To be certain one way or another, one would have to
conduct a calorimetry experiment under reasonably life-like
conditions.

Also, although this had nothing to do with its economy or
'eco-friendliness', the eco-kettle I tried was IMO rather dangerous.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On 06/01/2013 18:40, polygonum wrote:
On 06/01/2013 18:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes, well, depends on how you pour the water from a kettle. If you get
into
the habit of waiting till its no longer quite boiling before pouring you
seldom get burned. Also there are frames and a funnel for filling hot
water
bottles if people want to do that. Personally I'd use a hot water bottle
over the other types and ideas its far longer lasting and less hassle.
As for the instant things, Son of instant shower eh, well look like a
solution looking for a problem to me. Huge shrt lived current drain too.

I guess you could do the water in the Microwave, seen some microwave
kettles about, but one needs to be careful of the explosion effect
water has
if you remove it when it should be boiling but isn't,

Brian

Heating water in a microwave is OK if you are comfortable with both the
superheating problem which you mention and making a decent guess at how
low it will take. Aged mothers tend not to be so good at these things.
At least she is familiar with kettles - so for now we got her a lighter
one which she seems to manage better.

Of course, I meant, how long it will take. So that you don't end up with
tepid tea or a drowned microwave turntable.

--
Rod

In message , "Pet @
www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" writes
Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.

Do any of the esteemed panel of Usenets uk.d-i-y wisest have any
experiences with such modern fandanglements from brands to pricing and
longevity etc compared to a trusty kettle?

I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side of
things would help prolong it's life.

I would be willing to look at a "plumbed in" one but that would entail
drilling a hole through the granite worktop which doesn't sound like
much fun...

Thanks in advance..
Cheers Pete@ (see from for domain name)
Have you had a look at Triflow Concepts 4-way system? Not cheap. We've
had one of their filter systems for years with no problems other than
replacing the stop valves - once.
--
bert

On 06/01/13 15:17, Gordon Henderson wrote:
In article ,
Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:

I would be willing to look at a "plumbed in" one but that would entail
drilling a hole through the granite worktop which doesn't sound like
much fun...

I had a look at some of those plumbed in units recently after seeing
a friend with one... Ye gods, they're expensive!

e.g.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...Tap/index.html

I know there are stand-alone machines that sort of do it - e.g. my coffee
maker can dispense water that's sort of hot, but I'd not consider it to
make tea with (and it's not instant - needs a 45 second warm up, so I'd
need to leave it on all the time)

Gordon


The Qooker is slightly cheaper:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...aps/index.html

On 06/01/13 17:14, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:
On 06/01/2013 15:17, Gordon Henderson wrote:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...Tap/index.html

I know there are stand-alone machines that sort of do it - e.g. my coffee
maker can dispense water that's sort of hot, but I'd not consider it to
make tea with (and it's not instant - needs a 45 second warm up, so I'd
need to leave it on all the time)

Yes I quickly skirted past one with a tank when I saw it had a standby
power consumption of "just 60W"

bwahahaaahaaaaa




60W standby to keep 3 litres of water constantly at boiling point - i.e.
to compensate for heat-loss from the thermos vessel to the environment.

Sounds about right to me.

60 * 60 * 60 * 24 = 5184000 Joules/day

1 unit of electricity (1 KWh) = 1000 * 60 * 60 = 3600000

5184000 / 3600000 = 1.44 units/day

So the running cost of having instant boiling water available 24/7 is
about 15p/day.

If you have a timer to cut out night-time and when you're out at work -
maybe half that.

So the dominant cost is for the unit itself.

If the device is in an office environment, or other environment where
people make hot drinks whenever they feel like it and independently of
each other - the running costs disappear compared to heat/cool cycles of
a kettle (and lost work-time in the workplace).

On 06/01/2013 17:00, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:
I think the thing to consider is it is ions, and also sodium not the
salt sodium chloride.

Taken from a Softner manufacturers website (so might be a little biased)

"Therefore, the equivalent increase in salt intake by the average
individual drinking two litres of softened water a day is 0.696 g. This
is about one tenth of a teaspoonful."

http://www.harveywatersofteners.co.u...h-salt-is-that

You've heard of those things where they quote figures to an unreasonable
level of accuracy, just to make it sound more scientific? No? Well,
you have now.

If the softener is running perfectly efficiently it will replace each
Ca2+ calcium ion with two Na+ sodium ions. So the amount of sodium you
get is related to the hardness of the initial water.

That 0.696 should be read as more like "under a gram for typical water
hardness".

It's not just the added sodium, it's the loss of calcium as well BTW.
Not to mention the spiders and beetles that get into my softener - I can
take a spider leg in the bath, but not really in my coffee!

Anyway.... we've given up on fancy boilers at work. We go down to the
local shed every few months and buy another plastic kettle. Not looking
hard this one would do...

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/logik-l17kbs11-cordless-kettle-brushed-stainless-steel-08616513-pdt.html
AKA http://tinyurl.com/aekedjp

and that one looks far too fancy really. Note
- 2.7kW. You want the highest rating you can find.
- a round base, so you can plonk it back on any way around
- low price.
I forgot to check if that one has a concealed element. But in a office
it's a consumable. We've _tried_ boilers.

Andy

On 06/01/2013 20:58, Andy Champ wrote:
On 06/01/2013 17:00, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:
I think the thing to consider is it is ions, and also sodium not the
salt sodium chloride.

Taken from a Softner manufacturers website (so might be a little biased)

"Therefore, the equivalent increase in salt intake by the average
individual drinking two litres of softened water a day is 0.696 g. This
is about one tenth of a teaspoonful."

http://www.harveywatersofteners.co.u...h-salt-is-that


You've heard of those things where they quote figures to an unreasonable
level of accuracy, just to make it sound more scientific? No? Well,
you have now.

If the softener is running perfectly efficiently it will replace each
Ca2+ calcium ion with two Na+ sodium ions. So the amount of sodium you
get is related to the hardness of the initial water.

That 0.696 should be read as more like "under a gram for typical water
hardness".

It's not just the added sodium, it's the loss of calcium as well BTW.
Not to mention the spiders and beetles that get into my softener - I can
take a spider leg in the bath, but not really in my coffee!

Anyway.... we've given up on fancy boilers at work. We go down to the
local shed every few months and buy another plastic kettle. Not looking
hard this one would do...

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/logik-l17kbs11-cordless-kettle-brushed-stainless-steel-08616513-pdt.html

AKA http://tinyurl.com/aekedjp

and that one looks far too fancy really. Note
- 2.7kW. You want the highest rating you can find.
- a round base, so you can plonk it back on any way around
- low price.
I forgot to check if that one has a concealed element. But in a office
it's a consumable. We've _tried_ boilers.

Andy

Agreed about the sodium issue. But even then it is based on two litres
of water - and some drink more than that.

--
Rod

In article
,
Owain wrote:
On Jan 6, 9:25 pm, polygonum wrote:
Agreed about the sodium issue. But even then it is based on two litres
of water - and some drink more than that.

I certainly do. 2 litres would be 4 mugs of tea.

your mugs must be nearly the size of a pint beer mug

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 16:37:07 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

The last Dualit lasted over 16 years so the replacement should see me
out. Still the noisiest kettle in the world!

Modern consumer grade ones probably won't; I have direct experience of
the crap that's now made with good names on them.

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:01:21 -0000, Sam Plusnet wrote:

To be fair, that means we haven't had many - so you may think that's not
a representative sample.

Totally skewed sample with older, better-made items in it.
You've not been exposed to the ****e with brand names on it that
presents itself as a modern kettle.

The best current example I can find of a 'designed to last' kettle is
"Burco Commercial Kettle 2 Litre"

Commercial; you'd expect a long-lasting one if used domestically and
you'd want to know why if it didn't last.

On 06/01/2013 23:56, Owain wrote:
On Jan 6, 9:25 pm, polygonum wrote:
Agreed about the sodium issue. But even then it is based on two litres
of water - and some drink more than that.

I certainly do. 2 litres would be 4 mugs of tea.

I need at least that before I can get out of bed and not be grumpy in
the morning. (Yes I do have a bladder like a gasometer.)

Owain

But you are posting on uk.d-i-y. You are *supposed* to be grumpy!

--
Rod

On Sunday, January 6, 2013 4:37:07 PM UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Grimly

Curmudgeon writes

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:50:03 +0000, Java Jive

wrote:



You may care to read the subthread started by myself 7th post down

here, or you may wish to get a life instead ...



https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...h.digital-tv/Q

5-CuXDSQ8M



"so I thought: "If

even the brands with a reputable history are now as crap as everything

else, why not buy the cheapest and cut your losses!"."



True, dat.

Despite paying 40 and 50 quid for kettles, they don't last any longer

per pound/euro than supermarket cheapies, some of which continue to

soldier on long past their expire-by date.



The last Dualit lasted over 16 years so the replacement should see me

out. Still the noisiest kettle in the world!



--

Tim Lamb

First Dualit failed jut out of warranty. I refused to pay for the replacement but SWMBO bought it herself as it was the right colour to match the bloody toaster.
Second one has long since stopped turning itself off automatically once removed from the base.
Thay can make toasters but that appears to be it.

On Sunday, January 6, 2013 12:17:23 PM UTC, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:
Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of

the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button

and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.



Do any of the esteemed panel of Usenets uk.d-i-y wisest have any

experiences with such modern fandanglements from brands to pricing and

longevity etc compared to a trusty kettle?



I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side of

things would help prolong it's life.



I would be willing to look at a "plumbed in" one but that would entail

drilling a hole through the granite worktop which doesn't sound like

much fun...



Thanks in advance..

Cheers Pete@ (see from for domain name)

We had one. It had a small cistern holding about 3 litres and kept the water just below boiling point. It made a terrible cup of tea. Water was always flat.

Huge :
On 2013-01-07, fred wrote:

First Dualit failed jut out of warranty. I refused to pay for the
replacement but SWMBO bought it herself as it was the right colour to
match the bloody toaster.
Second one has long since stopped turning itself off automatically
once removed from the base.
Thay can make toasters but that appears to be it.

The Dualit coffee percolator we have is excellent.

Our Dualit coffee grinder has been in daily use for probably ten years
now and has never put a foot wrong.

--
Mike Barnes

On Jan 6, 1:21*pm, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)"
wrote:
On 06/01/2013 12:39, polygonum wrote:

When thinking about one for my mother (who is somewhat shaky so
dangerous with a kettle), I read review after review. Could not find any
model which did not seem to have Achilles's heels. Hop over to Amazon to
see what I mean.

Just reading through reviews of the "breville hot cup" or something.
Don't like the idea myself, seems too easy to dispense too much or not
enough water.

Standard domestic water softeners replace calcium ions in the incoming
with sodium ions in the outgoing. So you can end up raising your sodium
intake with the health consequences that might have.

From what I believe the amount of sodium added by softened water is
actually very low and would still be classed as "very low" and not
worthy of consideration under normal circumstances.
We do have a filtered hard water tap for cold drinks etc anyway.

Filtered water can be bad if you have certain health conditions, at
least according to the instructions when I last had a water filter.

MBQ

On 06/01/2013 14:59, polygonum wrote:
On 06/01/2013 13:48, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:21:05 +0000
"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:

On 06/01/2013 12:39, polygonum wrote:

When thinking about one for my mother (who is somewhat shaky so
dangerous with a kettle), I read review after review. Could not
find any model which did not seem to have Achilles's heels. Hop
over to Amazon to see what I mean.

Just reading through reviews of the "breville hot cup" or something.
Don't like the idea myself, seems too easy to dispense too much or not
enough water.

Standard domestic water softeners replace calcium ions in the
incoming with sodium ions in the outgoing. So you can end up
raising your sodium intake with the health consequences that might
have.

From what I believe the amount of sodium added by softened water is
actually very low and would still be classed as "very low" and not
worthy of consideration under normal circumstances.
We do have a filtered hard water tap for cold drinks etc anyway.

Thanks for input and thoughts.

Cheers
Pete @


I agree with you, from what I read, the amount of sodium actually
remaining in softened water is minimal, it gets flushed out with the
impurities when the softener regenerates.

Sorry - how does that work? The sodium does not get flushed out by the
regeneration process; the calcium does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softening

In its normal operation it replaces calcium ions in the water by sodium
ions. For every calcium ion it removes, it will add in two sodium ions.

I have no idea how much sodium that would represent in your situation.
Nor anything about your health. Hence my very non-specific comment
ending "the health consequences that might have", leaving it for you to
decide if that is significant.

Not an issue for me in a lovely soft water area ... does that mean
people in Hardwater areas will at some point see an increase in
Osteoporosis if they stop blocking Calcium input ?

In message , fred
writes

The last Dualit lasted over 16 years so the replacement should see me

out. Still the noisiest kettle in the world!



--

Tim Lamb

First Dualit failed jut out of warranty. I refused to pay for the
replacement but SWMBO bought it herself as it was the right colour to
match the bloody toaster.
Second one has long since stopped turning itself off automatically once
removed from the base.
Thay can make toasters but that appears to be it.

A common problem with all *plug in* kettles is where the user doesn't
bother to switch off the kettle when using part boiled water. The
beryllium copper contacts quickly fail.

--
Tim Lamb

In message , "Pet @
www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" writes
Our kettle has just made it's last ever cup of tea and the good lady of
the house wants one of those things that you dial up, press the button
and get just the right amount of "boiling"? water for your purpose.

Do any of the esteemed panel of Usenets uk.d-i-y wisest have any
experiences with such modern fandanglements from brands to pricing and
longevity etc compared to a trusty kettle?

In December 2011 I bought one of these: http://tinyurl.com/abuhkj8 as
SWMBO was recovering from an operation which left her unable to lift a
kettle safely. I did my usual trawl of the reviews before buying so this
was the best I could find at the time.

It's been in regular use since then and trouble-free though I have to
remember to keep an eye on the water level and refill it so that it's
ready for use.

The lever at the top controls how much water will be heated but the
markings don't really indicate volume. However the second button
instantly halts the hot water flow - very useful.

One other thing. It hasn't replaced our kettle as the water it produces
is too hot for the green teas I prefer.

I'm thinking that filling? such a device from the softened water side of
things would help prolong it's life.

We live in NW Kent, so in a hard water area. I haven't noticed any
scaling problems yet. With a family history of high blood pressure I
don't intend to start filling it with softened water.

--
Simon

12) The Second Rule of Expectations
An EXPECTATION is a Premeditated resentment.

In message , "Pet @
www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" writes
On 06/01/2013 15:17, Gordon Henderson wrote:


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind..._Hydro_Tap/ind
ex.html

I know there are stand-alone machines that sort of do it - e.g. my coffee
maker can dispense water that's sort of hot, but I'd not consider it to
make tea with (and it's not instant - needs a 45 second warm up, so I'd
need to leave it on all the time)

Yes I quickly skirted past one with a tank when I saw it had a standby
power consumption of "just 60W"

The Quooker is stating 10w standby.

--
Simon

12) The Second Rule of Expectations
An EXPECTATION is a Premeditated resentment.