HI All

In my soon-to-be-completed shed / stained-glass studio I'm going to
need hot water for hand-washing, cleaning up completed glass panels
etc.

A cold (pressurised) water supply is easy - the alkathene pipe from
the deep-bore well runs along the side of the new studio. Hot water
fed from the house might be a bit of a pain to arrange, as it would
involve digging up concrete paths & so on...

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

And - before anybody suggests it - NO thank you - I don't want an
air-to-water heat pump, or a windmill, or a solar furnace ...! g

Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

Thanks in advance for your suggestions / recommendations ...
Adrian

"Adrian" wrote:
HI All

In my soon-to-be-completed shed / stained-glass studio I'm going to
need hot water for hand-washing, cleaning up completed glass panels
etc.

A cold (pressurised) water supply is easy - the alkathene pipe from
the deep-bore well runs along the side of the new studio. Hot water
fed from the house might be a bit of a pain to arrange, as it would
involve digging up concrete paths & so on...

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

And - before anybody suggests it - NO thank you - I don't want an
air-to-water heat pump, or a windmill, or a solar furnace ...! g

Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

Thanks in advance for your suggestions / recommendations ...
Adrian

http://tinyurl.com/yqkvqw

Adrian expressed precisely :
Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

You can buy instant water heaters of about 2 or 3Kw which provide an
adjustable output flow, flow speed is inversely proportional to
temperature. Not much output if hot, but it might be what you are
looking for.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
Adrian writes:
HI All

In my soon-to-be-completed shed / stained-glass studio I'm going to
need hot water for hand-washing, cleaning up completed glass panels
etc.

A cold (pressurised) water supply is easy - the alkathene pipe from
the deep-bore well runs along the side of the new studio. Hot water
fed from the house might be a bit of a pain to arrange, as it would
involve digging up concrete paths & so on...

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

And - before anybody suggests it - NO thank you - I don't want an
air-to-water heat pump, or a windmill, or a solar furnace ...! g

Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

Yes there are. I've seen them in 3kW versions for running off a
FCU and 7kW versions for running from a dedicated circuit like a
shower, but that will need a juicey wire from the house. I think
temperature is more usually set by adjusting the flow rate.
Another option might be a gas multi-point water heater, depending
how easily you can run another gas pipe from your meter to the shed.
These do come up for sale second-hand for peanuts from time to time.
(Don't buy an ancient open-flued one though.)

Thanks in advance for your suggestions / recommendations ...
Adrian

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 24 Feb, 09:34, Adrian wrote:

HI All

In my soon-to-be-completed shed / stained-glass studio I'm going to
need hot water for hand-washing, cleaning up completed glass panels
etc.

A cold (pressurised) water supply is easy - the alkathene pipe from
the deep-bore well runs along the side of the new studio. Hot water
fed from the house might be a bit of a pain to arrange, as it would
involve digging up concrete paths & so on...

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

And - before anybody suggests it - NO thank you - I don't want an
air-to-water heat pump, or a windmill, or a solar furnace ...! g

Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

Thanks in advance for your suggestions / recommendations ...
Adrian

Its ironic that this is one situation where the right type of simple
alt energy heater would be cheaper to put in than an electric heater,
and could give better performance.


NT

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:34:36 +0000, Adrian wrote:

HI All

In my soon-to-be-completed shed / stained-glass studio I'm going to need
hot water for hand-washing, cleaning up completed glass panels etc.

A cold (pressurised) water supply is easy - the alkathene pipe from the
deep-bore well runs along the side of the new studio. Hot water fed from
the house might be a bit of a pain to arrange, as it would involve digging
up concrete paths & so on...

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater. Never
had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject. Enormous
flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash twenty or
thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out of the well !

And - before anybody suggests it - NO thank you - I don't want an
air-to-water heat pump, or a windmill, or a solar furnace ...! g

Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm' (mixed)
water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

Thanks in advance for your suggestions / recommendations ... Adrian

===============================
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...dex/index.html

Cic.

--
================================
Testing UBUNTU Linux
Everything working so far
================================

HI Harry

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:47:33 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Adrian expressed precisely :
Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

You can buy instant water heaters of about 2 or 3Kw which provide an
adjustable output flow, flow speed is inversely proportional to
temperature. Not much output if hot, but it might be what you are
looking for.

Thanks.
I've seen them, but never installed one.
Mains won't be a problem (need a hefty 240v feed for kilns etc) -
so perhaps one of these is the way to go...

Don't need 'gallons' of hot water - just a trickle would be fine !

Thanks
Adrian

HI Andrew

On 24 Feb 2007 09:50:57 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Adrian writes:
HI All

In my soon-to-be-completed shed / stained-glass studio I'm going to
need hot water for hand-washing, cleaning up completed glass panels
etc.

A cold (pressurised) water supply is easy - the alkathene pipe from
the deep-bore well runs along the side of the new studio. Hot water
fed from the house might be a bit of a pain to arrange, as it would
involve digging up concrete paths & so on...

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

And - before anybody suggests it - NO thank you - I don't want an
air-to-water heat pump, or a windmill, or a solar furnace ...! g

Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

Yes there are. I've seen them in 3kW versions for running off a
FCU and 7kW versions for running from a dedicated circuit like a
shower, but that will need a juicey wire from the house. I think
temperature is more usually set by adjusting the flow rate.

Don't think I'll need the 7kw one ! - 3k will do just fine.....
OK on the temperature vs flow thing - what I really want is a
lowish flow of warmish water (technical, eh !?) -
and I guess what a non-mixing unit will provide is a trickle of hot
water or a gush of tepid......?

I could always fill a sink with water of the right temperature, but,
when you're trying to get the corrosive flux off a piece of stained
glass work the last thing you want to do is soak it in diluted flux !
- hence the requirement for a trickle of water to take away the
'stuff'...

Another option might be a gas multi-point water heater, depending
how easily you can run another gas pipe from your meter to the shed.
These do come up for sale second-hand for peanuts from time to time.
(Don't buy an ancient open-flued one though.)

Good thought - but it's rather a long way from here to the nearest gas
meter ! We're way out in the far south-west of Ireland.... gas round
these parts comes in bottles g

Thanks again
Adrian

HI NT

On 24 Feb 2007 01:54:56 -0800, wrote:

On 24 Feb, 09:34, Adrian wrote:

HI All

In my soon-to-be-completed shed / stained-glass studio I'm going to
need hot water for hand-washing, cleaning up completed glass panels
etc.

A cold (pressurised) water supply is easy - the alkathene pipe from
the deep-bore well runs along the side of the new studio. Hot water
fed from the house might be a bit of a pain to arrange, as it would
involve digging up concrete paths & so on...

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

And - before anybody suggests it - NO thank you - I don't want an
air-to-water heat pump, or a windmill, or a solar furnace ...! g

Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

Thanks in advance for your suggestions / recommendations ...
Adrian

Its ironic that this is one situation where the right type of simple
alt energy heater would be cheaper to put in than an electric heater,
and could give better performance.

Hmm - do you think so ??

Thing is, I could put in a little solar water setup - but the house is
south of the studio and not very far from it - so the panels would
need to be somehow elevated and remote in order for them to see the
sun. The requirement for warm water isn't 'daily' - so I'd be afraid
that I'd lose more heat than I used, if storing warm water....

Putting on my 'lateral thinking' hat - I wonder what's the smallest
'immersion'-style hot water tank you could get - we have no end of
wind round here (not speaking personally !) - and a little wind
turbine hooked up to an immersion heater might make sense..?

I could just bite the bullet and arrange a suitable pipe from the
house dhw tank, which will have been heated by our groud-to-air heat
pump. There's a need to run pipework to the dhw cylinder from the new
heatpump (probably in some kind of conduit up the back wall of the
house) - so I might find room in said conduit for a feed back from the
tank to the studio.....

.....might be simplest in the long run.......
and cheapest in terms of running costs........

Thanks for the suggestions

Adrian

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...s_1/index.html
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...s_1/index.html

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
HI All

In my soon-to-be-completed shed / stained-glass studio I'm going to
need hot water for hand-washing, cleaning up completed glass panels
etc.

A cold (pressurised) water supply is easy - the alkathene pipe from
the deep-bore well runs along the side of the new studio. Hot water
fed from the house might be a bit of a pain to arrange, as it would
involve digging up concrete paths & so on...

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

And - before anybody suggests it - NO thank you - I don't want an
air-to-water heat pump, or a windmill, or a solar furnace ...! g

Are there units like showers, which would provide a flow of 'warm'
(mixed) water from the one tap - or are they 'hot or off' ??

Thanks in advance for your suggestions / recommendations ...
Adrian

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:34:36 +0000, Adrian
wrote:

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.

Local company I know has a few 3kW Heatray Sadia instant heaters as
handwash units and the things are almost completely useless producing
a trickle of tepid water at best.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HRHAN3.html

You would probably be better off with a small stored water oversink
unit such as http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/RRWS7.html which
would at least give you the option of 5 or 6 litres of really hot
water before reverting to tepid until it reheated.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Adrian wrote:

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !


I have seen two types that would probably do what you want. The small
above sink type that include a spout and tap and serve in place of a hot
tap, and the under sink type that are plumbed in to supply a hot tap and
work as a in line on demand heater. Some have small tanks included to
allow higher flows of hot water for a while (although these are more
suited to hand washing and other non continuous uses).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 11:30:12 +0000 someone who may be Adrian
wrote this:-

Don't need 'gallons' of hot water - just a trickle would be fine !

A 3kW heater will provide a suitable flow. Fine for washing hands
and things gently, but they take many minutes to fill a basin. A 7kW
would probably be too much.

Undersink versions are available, some of which work with ordinary
taps. Alternatively oversink versions have everything in one box.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

HI David

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:22:09 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 11:30:12 +0000 someone who may be Adrian
wrote this:-

Don't need 'gallons' of hot water - just a trickle would be fine !

A 3kW heater will provide a suitable flow. Fine for washing hands
and things gently, but they take many minutes to fill a basin. A 7kW
would probably be too much.

Undersink versions are available, some of which work with ordinary
taps. Alternatively oversink versions have everything in one box.

Thanks for the info.
Sounds like a 3kw heater will do the job then....
unless, as I mused further up the thread, I decide to plumb the studio
into the house dhw system ....

Thanks again
Adrian

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:40:23 +0000 someone who may be Adrian
wrote this:-

unless, as I mused further up the thread, I decide to plumb the studio
into the house dhw system ....

Generally not a good idea. Hot water is best generated close to
where it is used. In domestic circumstances beyond around say more
than 5-10m it is generally best generated locally.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

HI David

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:50:55 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:40:23 +0000 someone who may be Adrian
wrote this:-

unless, as I mused further up the thread, I decide to plumb the studio
into the house dhw system ....

Generally not a good idea. Hot water is best generated close to
where it is used. In domestic circumstances beyond around say more
than 5-10m it is generally best generated locally.

I've not measured, but it'll be about a far from the dhw tank to the
sink in the studio as it currently is from the dhw tank to the sink in
the downstairs bathroom.

I agreee, it'd be ideal to generate the hot water 'at the tap' - but,
against that, it'd be generated by peak-rate electricity....

All depends on how difficult the hot water pipe run turns out to be...

I guess, for the amount of hot water I'll be using - maybe a gallon or
so every other day - I might as well go the electric route....

Studi may well have a 'home-brewing corner' g - so on-demand hot
water could be helpful there....

Many thanks
Adrian

HI Owain

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:02:36 +0000, Owain
wrote:

Adrian wrote:
- I wonder what's the smallest
'immersion'-style hot water tank you could get

According to Dimplex catalogue:

Unvented cylinders - 80 to 305 litres (bigger ones have two heaters)

Unvented undersink - 7 to 15 litres

Unvented mid-range (wall hung) 30 to 75 litres

Ah - thanks for finding that out for me - appreciated....


Bear in mind that if the main purpose is rinsing stuff, fitting a
water-reducing spray head will mean that a smaller storage capacity will
last a lot longer before running cold.

True....


As Peter Parry says, the 3kW instantaneous ones are disappointing.

Hmm - OK

Thing is - with the ground-based heat pump installed, it seems a bit
daft to spend lots of money on expensive electricity with an
instantaneous system.

I suppose a possible way of doing it (need to check with heatpump man)
would be to put an additional indirect hot tank in the studio and run
the dhw heating circuit from the heat pump through the studio tank on
the way back from the house dhw tank.

Means two pipes from the heatpump to the studio - but that's a fairly
small distance - then you've got the hot water available at the point
of use (as per David's post)...

Lots of choices / decisions....!

Thanks
Adrian

Owain

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:40:25 +0000, Adrian wrote:

HI David

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:50:55 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:40:23 +0000 someone who may be Adrian
wrote this:-

unless, as I mused further up the thread, I decide to plumb the studio
into the house dhw system ....

Generally not a good idea. Hot water is best generated close to where it
is used. In domestic circumstances beyond around say more than 5-10m it
is generally best generated locally.

I've not measured, but it'll be about a far from the dhw tank to the sink
in the studio as it currently is from the dhw tank to the sink in the
downstairs bathroom.

I agreee, it'd be ideal to generate the hot water 'at the tap' - but,
against that, it'd be generated by peak-rate electricity....

All depends on how difficult the hot water pipe run turns out to be...

I guess, for the amount of hot water I'll be using - maybe a gallon or so
every other day - I might as well go the electric route....

Studi may well have a 'home-brewing corner' g - so on-demand hot water
could be helpful there....

Many thanks
Adrian

===============================
If you're going to be using so little ("...... maybe a gallon or so
every other day......") it would be easier to carry a bucketful of water
from the house and pour it into something like a homebrew container with
a small tap to release as required. A standard bucket holds two gallons.

Alternatively, if you want to heat it in the shed use an ordinary
kettle to heat it and pour into a container of cold water.

Cic.

--
================================
Testing UBUNTU Linux
Everything working so far
================================

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:40:25 +0000, Adrian
mused:

HI David

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:50:55 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:40:23 +0000 someone who may be Adrian
wrote this:-

unless, as I mused further up the thread, I decide to plumb the studio
into the house dhw system ....

Generally not a good idea. Hot water is best generated close to
where it is used. In domestic circumstances beyond around say more
than 5-10m it is generally best generated locally.

I've not measured, but it'll be about a far from the dhw tank to the
sink in the studio as it currently is from the dhw tank to the sink in
the downstairs bathroom.

But running it outside would ean that to get water outside as hot as
it is inside you'd have to start of with it hotter and run it for
longer. By the time you got a sink of hot water in the studio you'd
have used a tank full of hot water inside!
--
Regards,
Stuart.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian
saying something like:

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

What about using an electric shower unit? Only thing to watch is never
put a tap on the outlet, simply have the outlet as an open pipe or hose.
They can be picked up for peanuts s/h.
--

Dave

HI Dave

On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 01:03:14 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian
saying something like:

So - I though about some kind of electric 'instantaneous' heater.
Never had one of these before - so looking for advice on the subject.
Enormous flows are not required - it's just to avoid having to wash
twenty or thirty pieces of stained glass in water at 5c straight out
of the well !

What about using an electric shower unit? Only thing to watch is never
put a tap on the outlet, simply have the outlet as an open pipe or hose.
They can be picked up for peanuts s/h.

Yes - I was thinking along the same lines.
Only drawback is the 7kW or so power requirement -
just sounds 'expensive' as far as electricity consumption goes....

Doing a bit of lateral thinking yesterday - we might end up putting
the domestic heat-pump in the corner of the new studio - which would
make for easy access to the hot water flow from the boiler. A small
copper indirect cylinder in line with the standard hot water circuit
and the problem's solved !..... maybe......

Other problems today - got to get a bare-root hedge planted before the
storm hits tomorrow (Sunday)....

....what fun !

Thanks for your comments

Adrian