I just bought a tub of self-levelling floor screed to level out a roughly-
screeded floor prior to laying self-adhesive tiles. The instructions tell
me to first apply "floor primer", diluted 1:3. It tells me to then apply
the self-levelling mix when the floor primer is still tacky. Does anyone
know what type of floor primer is suitable? Will diluted PVA do? The floor
has no rising damp issues.

Thanks,

Al

On 28/12/12 16:27, AL_n wrote:
I just bought a tub of self-levelling floor screed to level out a roughly-
screeded floor prior to laying self-adhesive tiles. The instructions tell
me to first apply "floor primer", diluted 1:3. It tells me to then apply
the self-levelling mix when the floor primer is still tacky. Does anyone
know what type of floor primer is suitable? Will diluted PVA do? The floor
has no rising damp issues.


diluted pva is fine, Dilute with water, not brandy. Hic!

Thanks,

Al



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

AL_n wrote:


I just bought a tub of self-levelling floor screed to level out a roughly-
screeded floor prior to laying self-adhesive tiles. The instructions tell
me to first apply "floor primer", diluted 1:3. It tells me to then apply
the self-levelling mix when the floor primer is still tacky. Does anyone
know what type of floor primer is suitable? Will diluted PVA do? The floor
has no rising damp issues.

Thanks,

Al

What was the make of the self levelling compound?

F Ball products usually stipulate P131 which is a neoprene primer that both
seals and provides a highly tacky surface.

In the absence of any specific instructions, a diluted (about 1:2) SBR to
water will probably do. It will seal, be damp resistant and provide a
moderate tack surface that is very compatible with cement based products.

PVA might do, but it doe not penetrate well and any damp will soften it. And
20 odd quid for 5 litres (more than enough) is not worth arguing about.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

The Natural Philosopher wrote in news:kbkjtq$vlm$1
@news.albasani.net:

diluted pva is fine, Dilute with water, not brandy. Hic!

Thanks.. That's what I initially hoped too. However, I just read online
that another self-levelling floor screeed ('Level A' sold by Screwfix)
prescribes the use of an epoxy primer.

The stuff I bought from B&Q has the brand name "Diall". It calls itself
"Level a floor screed system" (with a small 'a'), so I'm wondering if it's
the same stuff that Screwfix sells, but under a different brand name. The
stuff I bought is a 2-pack product (powder, plus liquid). I wondered if
that suggests it is resin-based (epoxy or polyester). I'd take a whiff of
the liquid, to get a clue, but if I break the seal on the tub, I won;t be
able to take it back. (I will want to take it back if I find out I have to
use an expensive primer - and I assume any epoxy primer is going to cost a
lot more than the £10 I paid for the self-levelling screed!)

Al

Tim Watts wrote in
:

What was the make of the self levelling compound?

F Ball products usually stipulate P131 which is a neoprene primer that
both seals and provides a highly tacky surface.

In the absence of any specific instructions, a diluted (about 1:2) SBR
to water will probably do. It will seal, be damp resistant and provide
a moderate tack surface that is very compatible with cement based
products.

PVA might do, but it doe not penetrate well and any damp will soften
it. And 20 odd quid for 5 litres (more than enough) is not worth
arguing about.

Thanks... The brand is "Diall" (from B&Q). It describes itself as "level a
floor sceed system (self-levelling)".

There is a fast-setting self-levelling screed called "Level A" sold by
Screwfix that stipulates the use of an epoxy primer. I'm wondering if it's
the same stuff but with a different brand name.

Does anyne know what the term "Level A" and/or "Level a" indicates? It's a
term I've never encountered before. Is it simply a meaningless product
name, or does it indicate what the stuff is made of?

Al

"AL_n" wrote in
:

Tim Watts wrote in
:

What was the make of the self levelling compound?

F Ball products usually stipulate P131 which is a neoprene primer
that both seals and provides a highly tacky surface.

In the absence of any specific instructions, a diluted (about 1:2)
SBR to water will probably do. It will seal, be damp resistant and
provide a moderate tack surface that is very compatible with cement
based products.


Could you please clarify what SBR is?

I've just found reference to an acrylic primer describing itself as
'suitable for use prior to applying self-levelling compounds'. I already
have a tin of acrylic paint. I'm wondering if I should just dilute that and
use it (rather than PVA). If I remember correctly, the resin used in
acrylic paint is marginally superior in some way to the version used in PVA
paint.


Al

On Dec 28, 4:27*pm, "AL_n" wrote:
I just bought a tub of self-levelling floor screed to level out a roughly-
screeded floor prior to laying self-adhesive tiles. The instructions tell
me to first apply "floor primer", diluted 1:3. It tells me to then apply
the self-levelling mix when the floor primer is still tacky. Does anyone
know what type of floor primer is suitable? Will diluted PVA do? The floor
has no rising damp issues.

Thanks,

Al

You need to find out what is recommended by the screed manufacturer.
They will have it wherever you got the screed from.

AL_n wrote:

Tim Watts wrote in
:

What was the make of the self levelling compound?

F Ball products usually stipulate P131 which is a neoprene primer that
both seals and provides a highly tacky surface.

In the absence of any specific instructions, a diluted (about 1:2) SBR
to water will probably do. It will seal, be damp resistant and provide
a moderate tack surface that is very compatible with cement based
products.

PVA might do, but it doe not penetrate well and any damp will soften
it. And 20 odd quid for 5 litres (more than enough) is not worth
arguing about.

Thanks... The brand is "Diall" (from B&Q). It describes itself as "level a
floor sceed system (self-levelling)".

There is a fast-setting self-levelling screed called "Level A" sold by
Screwfix that stipulates the use of an epoxy primer. I'm wondering if it's
the same stuff but with a different brand name.

Does anyne know what the term "Level A" and/or "Level a" indicates? It's a
term I've never encountered before. Is it simply a meaningless product
name, or does it indicate what the stuff is made of?

Al

Hmm

Never heard of either of those.

But the Screwfix piccy shows it is branded:

"Stikatak" which belongs to

http://www.interfloor.co.uk/stikatak.html

The quoted use of "epoxy primer" seems a little suspicious. I've used epoxy
as a damp proof membrane and the odd thing is that it is actually not at all
sticky when dry - so much so that F Ball list some very specific coatings
that should be applied before self levelling compound is poured over - in
their case, P131 neoprene primer again.

Where does it say to use an "epoxy" primer?



--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

AL_n wrote:

"AL_n" wrote in
:

Tim Watts wrote in
:

What was the make of the self levelling compound?

F Ball products usually stipulate P131 which is a neoprene primer
that both seals and provides a highly tacky surface.

In the absence of any specific instructions, a diluted (about 1:2)
SBR to water will probably do. It will seal, be damp resistant and
provide a moderate tack surface that is very compatible with cement
based products.


Could you please clarify what SBR is?

Google would have told you:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=sbr

http://www.bostik.co.uk/diy/product/cementone/SBR/212

I've just found reference to an acrylic primer describing itself as
'suitable for use prior to applying self-levelling compounds'. I already
have a tin of acrylic paint. I'm wondering if I should just dilute that
and use it (rather than PVA). If I remember correctly, the resin used in
acrylic paint is marginally superior in some way to the version used in
PVA paint.

Despite what some folk think, I am very dubious about PVA for a flooring
application. It barely penetrates and is not good if it gets damp (with the
possible exception of a waterproof version). SBR once set is 100% capable of
withstanding wet and penetrates substrates extemely well.

I cannot answer for your acrylic primer, but for an application where
failure will be an utter PITA and it will be subjected to shocks and loads,
I would take guidance from the manufacturer and if that was not forthcoming,
then default to SBR and nothing else. I've use SBR for all sorts of (legit
documented) purposes since being introduced to it from this group a few
years back.

The documented uses a

Sand/cement Screed additive allowing screeding down to 10mm thick;

Preparation for the above (paint dilute mix on floor liberally, then apply a
SBR/Water/cement slurry)

Painting on fresh shiny plaster prior to tiling (documemented by BAL for
Greenstar tile adhesive)

(Undocumented) pouring literally several gallons over a very friable ****
poor screed and dusty concrete subfloor prior to remedial levelling compound
and epoxy DPM. The floor is still there with its slate tiles after 3 years
so far.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

On 28/12/2012 17:54, AL_n wrote:
"AL_n" wrote in
:

Tim Watts wrote in
:

What was the make of the self levelling compound?

F Ball products usually stipulate P131 which is a neoprene primer
that both seals and provides a highly tacky surface.

In the absence of any specific instructions, a diluted (about 1:2)
SBR to water will probably do. It will seal, be damp resistant and
provide a moderate tack surface that is very compatible with cement
based products.


Could you please clarify what SBR is?

I've just found reference to an acrylic primer describing itself as
'suitable for use prior to applying self-levelling compounds'. I already
have a tin of acrylic paint. I'm wondering if I should just dilute that and
use it (rather than PVA). If I remember correctly, the resin used in
acrylic paint is marginally superior in some way to the version used in PVA
paint.


Al


SBR = synthetic butadiene rubber. SBR primer is "PVA with attitude" and
as suggested above is likely to be more suitable for this job than PVA.

Plenty of hits if you google for SBR primer.

Personally I would not use acrylic paint as a substitute for PVA, it
will contain fillers and pigments and consequently less resin. If your
SLC cost a tenner it won't be epoxy based and therefore should not need
an epoxy primer IMHO

Tim Watts wrote in
:


Painting on fresh shiny plaster prior to tiling (documemented by BAL
for Greenstar tile adhesive)

(Undocumented) pouring literally several gallons over a very friable
**** poor screed and dusty concrete subfloor prior to remedial
levelling compound and epoxy DPM. The floor is still there with its
slate tiles after 3 years so far.


OK, it seems that SBR is the better choice. Hopefully I can cadge half a
pint from someone locally, because that's all I need.

Thanks to all for the input.

BTW, I remember once using some stuff commonly known as 'stabilising
solution'. It was a clear liquid intended for spraying onto unsound old
plaster and such. I wonder what that consisted of. I'm pretty sure it
wasn't PVA.

Al

harry wrote in news:6b096015-8c64-4735-adff-
:


You need to find out what is recommended by the screed manufacturer.
They will have it wherever you got the screed from.

I'm surprised they aren't more specific in the instructions, but all it
says is 'floor primer'. I could try hunting down the manufacturer, in
working hours.

Al

newshound wrote in news:50ddfe27$0$31889$c3e8da3
:

If your SLC cost a tenner it won't be epoxy based and therefore should
not need an epoxy primer IMHO.

Good point. Thanks.

Al

"AL_n" wrote in news:XnsA137E8E06600Dzzzzzz@
130.133.4.11:

You need to find out what is recommended by the screed manufacturer.
They will have it wherever you got the screed from.

I'm surprised they aren't more specific in the instructions, but all it
says is 'floor primer'. I could try hunting down the manufacturer, in
working hours.

PS... It does specify that the said 'floor primer' should be diluted with
water at a rate of 3:1. So the primer they recommend is clearly dilutable
with water.

Is SBR dilutable with water?

Al

AL_n wrote:

"AL_n" wrote in news:XnsA137E8E06600Dzzzzzz@
130.133.4.11:

You need to find out what is recommended by the screed manufacturer.
They will have it wherever you got the screed from.

I'm surprised they aren't more specific in the instructions, but all it
says is 'floor primer'. I could try hunting down the manufacturer, in
working hours.

PS... It does specify that the said 'floor primer' should be diluted with
water at a rate of 3:1. So the primer they recommend is clearly dilutable
with water.

Is SBR dilutable with water?

Al

Yes - absolutely.

http://www.flowcrete.co.uk/handlers/...ent.ashx?id=62

is a very useful reference. Sorry, it refreshed my memory - for sealing
purposes you can go down to 1:5 SBR:Water

1:3 is less economical but will form a stronger layer once it has
penetrated. A small amount on a test area would be worth doing.

If the aim is to really seal and penetrate the surface, you need to throw
everything down at once. After the first coat sets ( 30 mins - 1 hour) you
will not get much absorption on a second application.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

On 29/12/2012 01:18, Tim Watts wrote:
AL_n wrote:

"AL_n" wrote in news:XnsA137E8E06600Dzzzzzz@
130.133.4.11:

You need to find out what is recommended by the screed manufacturer.
They will have it wherever you got the screed from.

I'm surprised they aren't more specific in the instructions, but all it
says is 'floor primer'. I could try hunting down the manufacturer, in
working hours.

PS... It does specify that the said 'floor primer' should be diluted with
water at a rate of 3:1. So the primer they recommend is clearly dilutable
with water.

Is SBR dilutable with water?

Al

Yes - absolutely.

http://www.flowcrete.co.uk/handlers/...ent.ashx?id=62

is a very useful reference. Sorry, it refreshed my memory - for sealing
purposes you can go down to 1:5 SBR:Water

1:3 is less economical but will form a stronger layer once it has
penetrated. A small amount on a test area would be worth doing.

If the aim is to really seal and penetrate the surface, you need to throw
everything down at once. After the first coat sets ( 30 mins - 1 hour) you
will not get much absorption on a second application.


As a long time fan of SBR (I was using it when it was bloody expensive
and difficult to find), I would certainly use it where there is any
possibility of damp. Where there isn't, both sealer and screed can be
pva based IMO. PVA certainly mixes well into mortar, whereas SBR doesn't
for some reason. It almost behaves like a solvent based additive

On Dec 29, 8:55*am, stuart noble wrote:
On 29/12/2012 01:18, Tim Watts wrote:









AL_n wrote:

"AL_n" wrote in news:XnsA137E8E06600Dzzzzzz@
130.133.4.11:

You need to find out what is recommended by the screed manufacturer.
They will have it wherever you got the screed from.

I'm surprised they aren't more specific in the instructions, but all it
says is 'floor primer'. I could try hunting down the manufacturer, in
working hours.

PS... It does specify that the said 'floor primer' should be diluted with
water at a rate of 3:1. So the primer they recommend is clearly dilutable
with water.

Is SBR dilutable with water?

Al

Yes - absolutely.

http://www.flowcrete.co.uk/handlers/...tionDocument.a...

is a very useful reference. Sorry, it refreshed my memory - for sealing
purposes you can go down to 1:5 SBR:Water

1:3 is less economical but will form a stronger layer once it has
penetrated. A small amount on a test area would be worth doing.

If the aim is to really seal and penetrate the surface, you need to throw
everything down at once. After the first coat sets ( 30 mins - 1 hour) you
will not get much absorption on a second application.

As a long time fan of SBR (I was using it when it was bloody expensive
and difficult to find), I would certainly use it where there is any
possibility of damp. Where there isn't, both sealer and screed can be
pva based IMO. PVA certainly mixes well into mortar, whereas SBR doesn't
for some reason. It almost behaves like a solvent based additive

I think it's important to put on several coats of PVA, the first ones
diluted with water. The subsequent coats suck up less as you apply
them until you have a shiny surface.
You can then coat with cement made up with PVA and water.

harry wrote in
:


I think it's important to put on several coats of PVA, the first ones
diluted with water. The subsequent coats suck up less as you apply
them until you have a shiny surface.
You can then coat with cement made up with PVA and water.


Thanks for the input. Yes, I wouldn't be at all surprised if PVA turned out
to be good enough for this job. However, just to be a bit more confident in
the job, after reading some of the others' reservations about PVA for this
purpose, I decided to order something called Aquaseal Wet Room Waterproof
Tanking Primer, which is an Acrylic stabiliser/primer, intended for wet
rooms, prior to tiling. It may or may not be quite as good as SBR, (I don't
know) but it sounds near enough ideal to me. (Please tell me if you think
I'm wrong!)

Still, I am glad to know about SBR, because it might come in useful for
future jobs on this property (of which there is a long list, still to be
done).

I truly appreciate all the suggestions received in this thread and the
others. I have been postposning this job for about three years, because I
wasn't quite sure how best to tackle it. Gone are the days when I would
plough into every DIY job with fingers crossed, assuming all would turn out
fine!

I've got to say: over the years, this newsgroup has probably saved me from
a lion's share of headaches that I might have suffered if left to my own
guesswork. So a very big thanks to all of you here who know your stuff and
have the goodwill and generosity to share your knowledge.

Al

On 29/12/2012 10:02, harry wrote:
On Dec 29, 8:55 am, stuart noble wrote:
On 29/12/2012 01:18, Tim Watts wrote:









AL_n wrote:

"AL_n" wrote in news:XnsA137E8E06600Dzzzzzz@
130.133.4.11:

You need to find out what is recommended by the screed manufacturer.
They will have it wherever you got the screed from.

I'm surprised they aren't more specific in the instructions, but all it
says is 'floor primer'. I could try hunting down the manufacturer, in
working hours.

PS... It does specify that the said 'floor primer' should be diluted with
water at a rate of 3:1. So the primer they recommend is clearly dilutable
with water.

Is SBR dilutable with water?

Al

Yes - absolutely.

http://www.flowcrete.co.uk/handlers/...tionDocument.a...

is a very useful reference. Sorry, it refreshed my memory - for sealing
purposes you can go down to 1:5 SBR:Water

1:3 is less economical but will form a stronger layer once it has
penetrated. A small amount on a test area would be worth doing.

If the aim is to really seal and penetrate the surface, you need to throw
everything down at once. After the first coat sets ( 30 mins - 1 hour) you
will not get much absorption on a second application.

As a long time fan of SBR (I was using it when it was bloody expensive
and difficult to find), I would certainly use it where there is any
possibility of damp. Where there isn't, both sealer and screed can be
pva based IMO. PVA certainly mixes well into mortar, whereas SBR doesn't
for some reason. It almost behaves like a solvent based additive

I think it's important to put on several coats of PVA, the first ones
diluted with water. The subsequent coats suck up less as you apply
them until you have a shiny surface.
You can then coat with cement made up with PVA and water.



IMO the main purpose of a sealer is not to act as a waterproofer in
itself but, in the short term, to prevent the water content of the
mortar soaking into the masonry before it's had time to cure. This is
why it often sets perfectly on the inside of a bucket but falls off the
wall

stuart noble wrote in news:5dVDs.1446983
:

IMO the main purpose of a sealer is not to act as a waterproofer in
itself but, in the short term, to prevent the water content of the
mortar soaking into the masonry before it's had time to cure.

That's how I understand it too. However, it seems to make sense to use
something that isn't likely to be degraded if it gets damp for any reason.

Al