I have a BT Home Hub providing my ADSL & radiating / receiving wifi. However
I have a distributed site with several buildings well out of range of the BT
Home hub, all of which are linked by CAT5. So far I have suffered using
various wireless hubs cat5 connected, but it is a pain having different
ssid's etc and none are particularly reliable, needing occasional rebooting.

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings. I
don't really want a boosted full site wifi set up for security reasons.

(Although extensive this is essentially a home set up not a business, so the
budget is limited.)

AWEM

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:05:27 -0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings.

That is what your collection of ethernet connected wireless hubs already
do. You can get "range extenders" that takes the existing WiFi signal and
re-radiates it. These boxes don't need an ethernet connection but do need
to be in range of the "host" WiFi box. They also halve the the through
put at the same time. You'll still see a 54Mbps link or WHY but if you
actually try to use 54Mbps you won't be able to.

Have your tried setting all your APs to the same SSID, channel and
security (type and password)? I have a sneaky feeling that it can all
just sort itself out, certainly at places I visit a "site survey" shows
many AP's all with the same SSID, channel and security just different
signal levels. The WiFi in such places works... To avoid too much in the
way of RF collsions try to reduce the places where you can see signals or
roughly the same strength from differnt APs.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:41:59 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings.

That is what your collection of ethernet connected wireless hubs
already do.

Second thought(s) are these "wireless hubs" really a wireless router with
WAN and LAN ports or a plain wireless Access Point (LAN port(s) only)? Is
the ethernet cable plugged into a WAN or LAN port? If a WAN port is the
box configured into bridge mode? Where do devices connected to the
wireless side getting their IP address etc from the DHCP server in the AP
or from the BT Hub? Don't guess look at the DHCP tables in the AP(s) and
BT Hub.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Often its from the machine to the other end that has the issues, from bitter
experience, each time you add a boosting system it will probably just
clutter up the band more and cause interference or suffer from it as there
are now so many networks using the same channels.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...
I have a BT Home Hub providing my ADSL & radiating / receiving wifi.
However I have a distributed site with several buildings well out of range
of the BT Home hub, all of which are linked by CAT5. So far I have suffered
using various wireless hubs cat5 connected, but it is a pain having
different ssid's etc and none are particularly reliable, needing occasional
rebooting.

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings. I
don't really want a boosted full site wifi set up for security reasons.

(Although extensive this is essentially a home set up not a business, so
the budget is limited.)

AWEM

Have your tried setting all your APs to the same SSID, channel and

security (type and password)? I have a sneaky feeling that it can all

just sort itself out, certainly at places I visit a "site survey" shows

many AP's all with the same SSID, channel and security just different

signal levels.

That won't work IMO

You need wireless bridges really.

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have a BT Home Hub providing my ADSL & radiating / receiving wifi.
However I have a distributed site with several buildings well out of range
of the BT Home hub, all of which are linked by CAT5. So far I have
suffered using various wireless hubs cat5 connected, but it is a pain
having different ssid's etc and none are particularly reliable, needing
occasional rebooting.

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings. I
don't really want a boosted full site wifi set up for security reasons.

(Although extensive this is essentially a home set up not a business, so
the budget is limited.)

AWEM

Hi,

There a a few options, including

1) WIFI range extender (repeater) - acts as a client and an AP

2) Stick an AP on the ethernet in bridging mode. If the ethernet is
logically the same network as the WIFI from the BT Home Hub, this should
work - set up with the same ESSID.

You may be interested in this -

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/d...del=TL-WA901ND

I have one - very featureful piece of kit and supports several modes of
operating including the ones above. You'd pretty much hedge your bets with
that and it's not hugely expensive.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:41:59 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings.

That is what your collection of ethernet connected wireless hubs
already do.

Second thought(s) are these "wireless hubs" really a wireless router with
WAN and LAN ports or a plain wireless Access Point (LAN port(s) only)? Is
the ethernet cable plugged into a WAN or LAN port? If a WAN port is the
box configured into bridge mode? Where do devices connected to the
wireless side getting their IP address etc from the DHCP server in the AP
or from the BT Hub? Don't guess look at the DHCP tables in the AP(s) and
BT Hub.


They are US Robotics 8054 'Wireless Turbo Access Point & Router' with the
DHCP facility not enabled. DHCP is provided by the BT Home Hub.

AWEM

I recently changed to BT fibre and have the old wireless router - which
isn't that old. Could I feed that off the BT one to act as a range
extender - situated in a different part of the house? I have CAT5 going to
the attic room and having a second transmitter up there would probably
give much better coverage - the BT one is situated next to where the line
comes into the house.

--
*The average person falls asleep in seven minutes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:05:27 -0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings.

That is what your collection of ethernet connected wireless hubs already
do. You can get "range extenders" that takes the existing WiFi signal and
re-radiates it. These boxes don't need an ethernet connection but do need
to be in range of the "host" WiFi box. They also halve the the through
put at the same time. You'll still see a 54Mbps link or WHY but if you
actually try to use 54Mbps you won't be able to.

Have your tried setting all your APs to the same SSID, channel and
security (type and password)? I have a sneaky feeling that it can all
just sort itself out, certainly at places I visit a "site survey" shows
many AP's all with the same SSID, channel and security just different
signal levels. The WiFi in such places works... To avoid too much in the
way of RF collsions try to reduce the places where you can see signals or
roughly the same strength from differnt APs.

I think there is something in this, you keep the same SSID but have to
encourage the end client to hand over from one access point to another
as the signal strength varies. Perhaps that means same SSID bit
different channels, I don't know. Perhaps it also means that you need to
have all your access points from the same manufacturer and have them
support the handing off of the client from one to the other but that
doesn't really fit in with the idea of a use-what-I've-got budget
solution.

Might be an idea for the o/p to experiment with setting SSID to same,
encryption same but channels different and see if the setup will hand
over.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 17/12/2012 11:01, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:41:59 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings.

That is what your collection of ethernet connected wireless hubs
already do.

Second thought(s) are these "wireless hubs" really a wireless router with
WAN and LAN ports or a plain wireless Access Point (LAN port(s) only)? Is
the ethernet cable plugged into a WAN or LAN port? If a WAN port is the
box configured into bridge mode? Where do devices connected to the
wireless side getting their IP address etc from the DHCP server in the AP
or from the BT Hub? Don't guess look at the DHCP tables in the AP(s) and
BT Hub.


They are US Robotics 8054 'Wireless Turbo Access Point & Router' with
the DHCP facility not enabled. DHCP is provided by the BT Home Hub.

I don't know if that one will let you do it but some Wifi access points
can be configured as repeater stations with the same SSID as the base
station. My 3Com will do this quite easily.

You can also get a high gain antenna that will support a link across
300m or more and a few brick walls if you have one detatchable antenna.

Range extender on Dabs will get you a few dedicated units.

Is the aim to eliminate the Cat5 cables from building to building or to
have the same network SSID everywhere?

Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message ...

On 17/12/2012 11:01, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:41:59 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings.

That is what your collection of ethernet connected wireless hubs
already do.

Second thought(s) are these "wireless hubs" really a wireless router
with
WAN and LAN ports or a plain wireless Access Point (LAN port(s) only)?
Is
the ethernet cable plugged into a WAN or LAN port? If a WAN port is the
box configured into bridge mode? Where do devices connected to the
wireless side getting their IP address etc from the DHCP server in the
AP
or from the BT Hub? Don't guess look at the DHCP tables in the AP(s) and
BT Hub.


They are US Robotics 8054 'Wireless Turbo Access Point & Router' with
the DHCP facility not enabled. DHCP is provided by the BT Home Hub.

I don't know if that one will let you do it but some Wifi access points can
be configured as repeater stations with the same SSID as the base station.
My 3Com will do this quite easily.

You can also get a high gain antenna that will support a link across 300m
or more and a few brick walls if you have one detatchable antenna.

Range extender on Dabs will get you a few dedicated units.

Is the aim to eliminate the Cat5 cables from building to building or to
have the same network SSID everywhere?

Regards,
Martin Brown

The later - so devices can move around without issue hopefully. The CAT5 is
in and working fine

AWEM

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:02:39 +0000, fred wrote:

I think there is something in this, you keep the same SSID but have to
encourage the end client to hand over from one access point to another
as the signal strength varies.

My ancient iPAQ has a setting about hand off but I've not seen it in more
recent WiFi enabled kit. So I suspect it's in the protocol but "just
works". The iPAQ only does 802.11b IIRC...

Might be an idea for the o/p to experiment with setting SSID to same,
encryption same but channels different and see if the setup will hand
over.

I think it's worth a try with same everything and see what happens. If
there are problems try changing the channels used (and fixing them)
bearing in mind that only 1, 6 and 11 don't over lap.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 17/12/2012 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I recently changed to BT fibre and have the old wireless router - which
isn't that old. Could I feed that off the BT one to act as a range
extender - situated in a different part of the house? I have CAT5 going to
the attic room and having a second transmitter up there would probably
give much better coverage - the BT one is situated next to where the line
comes into the house.


Thats what I did with my old router.
Just disable DHCP in the old router and plug it into one of the LAN
ports and it should go.
If you set the SSID and pass phrase to the same as the new one and put
it on a different channel the computers should be able to select the
best one dynamically.

On 17/12/2012 21:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 17/12/2012 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I recently changed to BT fibre and have the old wireless router - which
isn't that old. Could I feed that off the BT one to act as a range
extender - situated in a different part of the house? I have CAT5
going to
the attic room and having a second transmitter up there would probably
give much better coverage - the BT one is situated next to where the line
comes into the house.


Thats what I did with my old router.
Just disable DHCP in the old router and plug it into one of the LAN
ports and it should go.
If you set the SSID and pass phrase to the same as the new one and put
it on a different channel the computers should be able to select the
best one dynamically.

For certain values of dynamically...

If you open up a laptop and connect to the strongest access point
signal, then its fine. What it does not do is actually allow roaming.
i.e. move that same machine from close to one access point to the other,
and it will still try to talk to the original connection point even when
there is another that offers a much better signal strength. Only when
you explicitly break the connection (or it goes out of range) will
windows look for an alternative. You then have a secondary problem that
the router injecting internet connectivity into the APs won't have any
way of being told that the connection point has changed - hence it will
still be using the MAC address of the previous point. This normally
resolves in a minute or so when it works out its not getting responses,
and does an ARP broadcast to find the client again - but seamless is it not!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/12/2012 08:05, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I have a BT Home Hub providing my ADSL & radiating / receiving wifi.
However I have a distributed site with several buildings well out of
range of the BT Home hub, all of which are linked by CAT5. So far I have
suffered using various wireless hubs cat5 connected, but it is a pain
having different ssid's etc and none are particularly reliable, needing
occasional rebooting.

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings. I
don't really want a boosted full site wifi set up for security reasons.

You can get repeater / range extender APs designed to provide WiFi over
wider areas. However the posh solution are meshing devices. These
automatically establish multipoint communications between each other,
learn about their relative signal conditions and select the best route
automatically.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 02:44:13 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

For certain values of dynamically...

If you open up a laptop and connect to the strongest access point
signal, then its fine. What it does not do is actually allow roaming.
i.e. move that same machine from close to one access point to the
other, and it will still try to talk to the original connection point
even when there is another that offers a much better signal strength.
Only when you explicitly break the connection (or it goes out of range)
will windows look for an alternative.

My iPAQ (Windows Mobile 5) has a WiFi roaming setting of "Poor Signal" or
"No Signal" it does not say what constitues a "Poor Signal". This is not
a setting I have seen in more recent devices.

You then have a secondary problem that the router injecting internet
connectivity into the APs won't have any way of being told that the
connection point has changed - hence it will still be using the MAC
address of the previous point.

Hum, my routers ARP table shows the MAC address of the end point not the
MAC address of the intermediate wireless AP (in bridge mode). How long
the unmanaged switch between the router and AP takes to notice the move
is another matter but I've never experienced any noticable delay when
physically moving things on switch ports.

If I had another AP I'd play...

--
Cheers
Dave.

John Rumm wrote:

On 17/12/2012 08:05, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I have a BT Home Hub providing my ADSL & radiating / receiving wifi.
However I have a distributed site with several buildings well out of
range of the BT Home hub, all of which are linked by CAT5. So far I have
suffered using various wireless hubs cat5 connected, but it is a pain
having different ssid's etc and none are particularly reliable, needing
occasional rebooting.

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings. I
don't really want a boosted full site wifi set up for security reasons.

You can get repeater / range extender APs designed to provide WiFi over
wider areas. However the posh solution are meshing devices. These
automatically establish multipoint communications between each other,
learn about their relative signal conditions and select the best route
automatically.



Those are quite funky - I loaded a meshing enabled OpenWRT firmware (it was
ready loaded with the right stuff just for laziness, otheriwse not
particularly special) onto about 10 Linksys WRT54GS's once and set them on
batteries around a large field with one end near the office WIFI and the far
ends well out of range.

Worked really well.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

In article , Andrew Mawson
scribeth thus
I have a BT Home Hub providing my ADSL & radiating / receiving wifi. However
I have a distributed site with several buildings well out of range of the BT
Home hub, all of which are linked by CAT5. So far I have suffered using
various wireless hubs cat5 connected, but it is a pain having different
ssid's etc and none are particularly reliable, needing occasional rebooting.

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings. I
don't really want a boosted full site wifi set up for security reasons.

(Although extensive this is essentially a home set up not a business, so the
budget is limited.)

AWEM


From what I've seen of it you can do this using the same SSID around the
area but it will cost more than not a lot.

Give www.Solwise.com a call and see what they have on offer. Wireless
repeaters, thats to say receive and re transmit the signal aren't that
much cop. And a lot will depend on what the 2.4 Ghz usage is like where
your based..



--
Tony Sayer

On 18/12/2012 09:27, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 02:44:13 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

For certain values of dynamically...

If you open up a laptop and connect to the strongest access point
signal, then its fine. What it does not do is actually allow roaming.
i.e. move that same machine from close to one access point to the
other, and it will still try to talk to the original connection point
even when there is another that offers a much better signal strength.
Only when you explicitly break the connection (or it goes out of range)
will windows look for an alternative.

My iPAQ (Windows Mobile 5) has a WiFi roaming setting of "Poor Signal" or
"No Signal" it does not say what constitues a "Poor Signal". This is not
a setting I have seen in more recent devices.

Firstly "windows mobile" != "windows" - so behaviour will be different.

Roaming is something very difficult to do well - having said that its
not something you often actually need when it comes down to it.

The trend has been to make windows less hop happy rather than more.
While it would be nice if it could roam, its actually even more annoying
when it decides to jump to another network that momentarily has a
stronger signal (especially when that network for example lacks internet
access or access to your LAN etc). So the current behaviour makes some
sense.

You then have a secondary problem that the router injecting internet
connectivity into the APs won't have any way of being told that the
connection point has changed - hence it will still be using the MAC
address of the previous point.

Hum, my routers ARP table shows the MAC address of the end point not the
MAC address of the intermediate wireless AP (in bridge mode). How long

It depends somewhat on at what layer your AP is working. If it truly is
operating in bridge mode (i.e. layer 2 routing based on MAC addresses
rather than layer 3 IP routing), the non roaming endpoint of a
connection should have the MAC of the actual laptop cached in its ARP
table. If its working as an IP level router, then the routers MAC
address will be cached.

the unmanaged switch between the router and AP takes to notice the move
is another matter but I've never experienced any noticable delay when
physically moving things on switch ports.

Most switches will spot the change fairly quickly IME.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/12/2012 09:34, Tim Watts wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 17/12/2012 08:05, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I have a BT Home Hub providing my ADSL & radiating / receiving wifi.
However I have a distributed site with several buildings well out of
range of the BT Home hub, all of which are linked by CAT5. So far I have
suffered using various wireless hubs cat5 connected, but it is a pain
having different ssid's etc and none are particularly reliable, needing
occasional rebooting.

Is there a 'range extender' that will sit on the cat5 network and
re-radiate/receive the BT Hub transparently in each of the buildings. I
don't really want a boosted full site wifi set up for security reasons.

You can get repeater / range extender APs designed to provide WiFi over
wider areas. However the posh solution are meshing devices. These
automatically establish multipoint communications between each other,
learn about their relative signal conditions and select the best route
automatically.



Those are quite funky - I loaded a meshing enabled OpenWRT firmware (it was
ready loaded with the right stuff just for laziness, otheriwse not
particularly special) onto about 10 Linksys WRT54GS's once and set them on
batteries around a large field with one end near the office WIFI and the far
ends well out of range.

Worked really well.

Yup it does work nicely... no need to tit about with spanning tree
settings either.

With things like the WRT54Gs you will get a so called "lite mesh" since
they only have one radio. So the same radio has to switch between
servicing local AP clients and the backhaul mesh connection. The
implication being that the more hops you have to go through, the lower
the maximum data throughput. (although even 4 hops will still give you a
respectable 4Mps IIRC). The posher kit with two radios does not have
that limitation obviously.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/