According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power burners.
http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

On Dec 9, 6:29*am, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off.
A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:14:45 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 9, 6:29*am, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off.
A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

Okay, thanks.

MM

On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:14:45 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 9, 6:29*am, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off.
A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

Further question: Is it permissible to fit the control box TF 823.3
(for 2-stage burners) into a system that has a 1-stage burner?

My system originally had a DKO970 control box (i.e. NOT a DKO972),
therefore the Wallstar 15.20 must be a 1-stage burner system.

Thanks.

MM

MM wrote:
On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:14:45 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 9, 6:29 am, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power
burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off.
A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

Further question: Is it permissible to fit the control box TF 823.3
(for 2-stage burners) into a system that has a 1-stage burner?

My system originally had a DKO970 control box (i.e. NOT a DKO972),
therefore the Wallstar 15.20 must be a 1-stage burner system.

Thanks.

MM

It seems no one's answered this (and nor can I) but it seems plausible to
me that if you've got the wrong control box (which locks out after a much
shorter time if the flame doesn't establish) then it could well be the
cause of your problems.

I'd be asking the plumber *why* he fitted a two stage control box to a one
stage boiler (and asking him to rectify the mistake).

Tim

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:09:16 +0000, Tim+
wrote:

MM wrote:
On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:14:45 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 9, 6:29 am, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power
burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off.
A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

Further question: Is it permissible to fit the control box TF 823.3
(for 2-stage burners) into a system that has a 1-stage burner?

My system originally had a DKO970 control box (i.e. NOT a DKO972),
therefore the Wallstar 15.20 must be a 1-stage burner system.

Thanks.

MM

It seems no one's answered this (and nor can I) but it seems plausible to
me that if you've got the wrong control box (which locks out after a much
shorter time if the flame doesn't establish) then it could well be the
cause of your problems.

I'd be asking the plumber *why* he fitted a two stage control box to a one
stage boiler (and asking him to rectify the mistake).

I did query it. I specifically downloaded the spec sheets for the
original DKO970 and for the (now fitted) TF 832.3 and showed them to
the heating engineer. I brought up the subject again in emails and
phone calls. I repeatedly asked the engineer to check with HRM
Wallstar and they were adamant that this new control box IS compatible
with the 15/20 model.

The one *obvious* difference is that the DKO970 Model 21 is for a
1-stage oil burner, whereas the TF 832.3 control box is for a 2-stage
oil burner.

However, I still have my doubts about the new control box, and my most
recent, lengthy posting this morning (see "Curious behaviour of my
Wallstar boiler") only confirms them.

I still have the "old" control box and the next time the engineer
calls I'm going to ask him to put it back on at least for a temporary
test period (say, two to three days).

But, Tim, please feel free to review my latest posting as mentioned,
and the weird symptom of the boiler ONLY locking out after the FIRST
start-up from cold, because my heating engineer has contacted HRM
Wallstar several times (he knows them personally) and even HRM don't
seem to have a solution (which doesn't bode well for the company's
reputation, in my view).

The boiler is STILL running fine this morning, 24 hours after
yesterday's initial lockout at 07:55am. However, it is running in
permanently ON mode, and is therefore never having to start from stone
cold.

And many thanks, by the way, for your continued interest in my heating
problems! It's good to know that some people do read these postings
seriously. And maybe this entire litany of woe since October may
eventually help others in future to diagnose their boiler probs.

Mind you, my engineer tells me stories of old folks being ripped off
by Johnny-come-latelys who just refuse to repair their boilers and say
they need a new one. £3,000 ka-ching. I've had confirmation from
elsewhere that this sharp practice does go on. My engineer is not
expensive and has a good reputation from several other residents with
the same boiler (40 brand-new houses in 2003-4).

MM

MM wrote:
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:09:16 +0000, Tim+
wrote:

MM wrote:
On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:14:45 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 9, 6:29 am, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power
burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off.
A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

Further question: Is it permissible to fit the control box TF 823.3
(for 2-stage burners) into a system that has a 1-stage burner?

My system originally had a DKO970 control box (i.e. NOT a DKO972),
therefore the Wallstar 15.20 must be a 1-stage burner system.

Thanks.

MM

It seems no one's answered this (and nor can I) but it seems plausible to
me that if you've got the wrong control box (which locks out after a much
shorter time if the flame doesn't establish) then it could well be the
cause of your problems.

I'd be asking the plumber *why* he fitted a two stage control box to a one
stage boiler (and asking him to rectify the mistake).

I did query it. I specifically downloaded the spec sheets for the
original DKO970 and for the (now fitted) TF 832.3 and showed them to
the heating engineer. I brought up the subject again in emails and
phone calls. I repeatedly asked the engineer to check with HRM
Wallstar and they were adamant that this new control box IS compatible
with the 15/20 model.

Hmm, I can't why the manufacturers would produce two control boxes if one
could do the job for both boilers. They must have different lock out times
for a good reason.

The one *obvious* difference is that the DKO970 Model 21 is for a
1-stage oil burner, whereas the TF 832.3 control box is for a 2-stage
oil burner.

However, I still have my doubts about the new control box, and my most
recent, lengthy posting this morning (see "Curious behaviour of my
Wallstar boiler") only confirms them.

I still have the "old" control box and the next time the engineer
calls I'm going to ask him to put it back on at least for a temporary
test period (say, two to three days).

But, Tim, please feel free to review my latest posting as mentioned,
and the weird symptom of the boiler ONLY locking out after the FIRST
start-up from cold,


I saw that. I would imagine that a warm boiler strikes up more quickly
than a stone cold boiler which is why it's locking out after the first
firing of the day.

Why not phone up HRM and ask them why they produce two different control
boxes? It may be that your heating engineer isn't asking the right
questions.

Tim

On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:14:45 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 9, 6:29*am, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off.
A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

Yet another question, sorry:

What is "post-ignition time"?

From the spec sheet:
The TF 830.3 has a post-ignition time of ca. 20 sec.
The TF 832.3 has a post-ignition time of ca. 2 - 3 sec.

My 1-stage burner now has the TF 832.3 control box, which is for
2-stage operation, so I'm wondering how the post-ignition time may
affect the propensity for lockouts.

MM

On Dec 11, 7:15*am, MM wrote:
On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:14:45 -0800 (PST), harry









wrote:
On Dec 9, 6:29*am, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for
1- or 2-stage oil power burners.http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf

What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?

Thanks.

MM

A one stage oil burner is simply on/off.
A two stage oil burner has a high/low fire.

Ie it has two output levels.

It has two oil jets.

Yet another question, sorry:

What is "post-ignition time"?

From the spec sheet:
The TF 830.3 has a post-ignition time of ca. 20 sec.
The TF 832.3 has a post-ignition time of ca. 2 - 3 sec.

My 1-stage burner now has the TF 832.3 control box, which is for
2-stage operation, so I'm wondering how the post-ignition time may
affect the propensity for lockouts.

MM

Ist question-dunno. I'd have thought not and the two stage controller
would be significantly more expensive.
You need a special two stage thermostat (or two thermostats) for the
two stage burner.
One is on off. The other is the changeover temp hi-lo

The post ignition time is the time the flame has to run/get
established after ignition during which the PV cell has to "see" it.
If it doesn't "see" it in that time, lockout occurs.


The two stage burners start on low fire and move immediately to high
fire if the water temperature is low enough.
As set point is approached it goes to low fire, & then cycles hi-lo-hi-
lo, if temperature continues to rise, it shuts down

The time time differences are due to two stage burners being larger
than single stage so the flame takes longer to stabilise.
20 seconds seems longer than I remember. More like 10 on a medium
sized oil burner.
2-3 is about what I remember on small burners.
But it was all a while back, stuff may have changed.

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:29:53 AM UTC, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for

1- or 2-stage oil power burners.

http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf



What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?



Thanks.



MM

I know this was an older post, but having had some boiler issues myself I came across this post. I also came across the link attached which is a link to a pdf for the DK0970 controller, it clearly describes the function and explains the compatibility between the units. The DK controller is a more expensive version of the TF830, but they are indeed compatible and exchange-able. Thought it was worth adding for others that come across this

http://www.lowestcostcontrols.co.uk/...dko970-972.pdf

Cheers

On 06/04/2013 13:25, wrote:
On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:29:53 AM UTC, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for

1- or 2-stage oil power burners.

http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf



What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?



Thanks.



MM

I know this was an older post, but having had some boiler issues myself I came across this post. I also came across the link attached which is a link to a pdf for the DK0970 controller, it clearly describes the function and explains the compatibility between the units. The DK controller is a more expensive version of the TF830, but they are indeed compatible and exchange-able. Thought it was worth adding for others that come across this

http://www.lowestcostcontrols.co.uk/...dko970-972.pdf

Cheers


Well my boiler (control box) starts the motor-fan-pump and runs for a
few seconds before opening the oil valve solenoid. You could regard
that as two stage.

I would only use a control box specified by the burner manufacturer.
(But maybe I don't have your problem!)


--
Michael Chare

In message , Michael
Chare writes
On 06/04/2013 13:25, wrote:
On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:29:53 AM UTC, MM wrote:
According to the spec sheet, these control boxes are available for

1- or 2-stage oil power burners.

http://www.satronic.co.uk/download/T...20%28EN%29.pdf



What is meant by "1-stage" and "2-stage"?



Thanks.



MM

I know this was an older post, but having had some boiler issues
myself I came across this post. I also came across the link attached
which is a link to a pdf for the DK0970 controller, it clearly
describes the function and explains the compatibility between the
units. The DK controller is a more expensive version of the TF830, but
they are indeed compatible and exchange-able. Thought it was worth
adding for others that come across this

http://www.lowestcostcontrols.co.uk/...dko970-972.pdf

Cheers


Well my boiler (control box) starts the motor-fan-pump and runs for a
few seconds before opening the oil valve solenoid. You could regard
that as two stage.

No that's proving

two stage refers to the valve


I would only use a control box specified by the burner manufacturer.
(But maybe I don't have your problem!)


The TF830 type controls are mostly pin compatible and the only
difference between any of them is timing between stages

I use the same test set for all of them


--
geoff