Does anyone know if these
http://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-...e-booster-pump
are any good please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water
system such as Megaflo?

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance.

TIA

--
/Simon

Simon Wilson wrote:
Does anyone know if these
http://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-...e-booster-pump are any good
please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water system such as Megaflo?

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance.

TIA


You can't use a pump on a mains pressure tank, only on the output from a
gravity fed tank, otherwise your pump could be "sucking" on the mains,
something that's strictly forbidden.

If your mains pressure really is that poor a pressurised HW tank isn't
appropriate.

Tim

In article

, Tim+ writes
Simon Wilson wrote:
Does anyone know if these
http://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-...ssure-booster-
pump are any good
please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water system such as
Megaflo?

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance.

TIA


You can't use a pump on a mains pressure tank, only on the output from a
gravity fed tank, otherwise your pump could be "sucking" on the mains,
something that's strictly forbidden.

If your mains pressure really is that poor a pressurised HW tank isn't
appropriate.

Yep, spot on.

The only solution I can think of in the case of really poor mains supply
is to have a large stored cold water supply[1] (cold water tank) and to
pump both hot and cold to the outlets. Hot feed to be pumped on the
outlet side of the hot water cylinder.

[1] Sufficient to supply the whole family/occupants peak demand with
only limited reliance on topup from the mains.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 04/12/2012 12:12, Tim+ wrote:
Simon Wilson wrote:
Does anyone know if these
http://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-...e-booster-pump are any good
please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water system such as Megaflo?

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance.

TIA


You can't use a pump on a mains pressure tank, only on the output from a
gravity fed tank, otherwise your pump could be "sucking" on the mains,
something that's strictly forbidden.

The blurb on that pump seems to indicate otherwise, they say it's
permissable to "suck" providing you don't exceed 12l/min.

--
/Simon

Simon Wilson wrote:
On 04/12/2012 12:12, Tim+ wrote:
Simon Wilson wrote:
Does anyone know if these
http://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-...e-booster-pump are any good
please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water system such as Megaflo?

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance.

TIA


You can't use a pump on a mains pressure tank, only on the output from a
gravity fed tank, otherwise your pump could be "sucking" on the mains,
something that's strictly forbidden.

The blurb on that pump seems to indicate otherwise, they say it's
permissable to "suck" providing you don't exceed 12l/min.


All sounds very dodgy to me. How does it prevent sucking contaminated water
in (from a poor underground joint or split say)?

I would get professional advice and not rely on manufacturer's information.
Even if it is legal, I wouldn't want one.

Tim

On 04/12/2012 14:30, Tim+ wrote:
Simon Wilson wrote:
On 04/12/2012 12:12, Tim+ wrote:
Simon Wilson wrote:
Does anyone know if these
http://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-...e-booster-pump are any good
please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water system such as Megaflo?

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance.

TIA


You can't use a pump on a mains pressure tank, only on the output from a
gravity fed tank, otherwise your pump could be "sucking" on the mains,
something that's strictly forbidden.

The blurb on that pump seems to indicate otherwise, they say it's
permissable to "suck" providing you don't exceed 12l/min.


All sounds very dodgy to me. How does it prevent sucking contaminated water
in (from a poor underground joint or split say)?

I would get professional advice and not rely on manufacturer's information.
Even if it is legal, I wouldn't want one.


Professional advice = whom? I thought the internets was a reliable source

I was told about this device by my plumber.

--
/Simon

On 04/12/2012 11:49, Simon Wilson wrote:
Does anyone know if these
http://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-...e-booster-pump
are any good please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water
system such as Megaflo?

Conventional wisdom says that you are not allowed to pump directly from
the mains on the grounds that if you introduce negative pressure on it,
then contaminates could be drawn into the water supply via leaks etc.

However this pump would appear to be a slightly different proposition.

Looking at:

http://www.home-boost.co.uk/where.html

Suggests that this one is intended to connect directly to the incoming
main. It seems it includes intelligence to to prevent it from actually
"sucking" on the supply - and basically just boosting by a variable
amount to overcome the losses in the house plumbing etc.

One downside would seem to be it includes flow regulation limited to 12
lpm which is not great. It will be enough for a moderate combi, but
would not take any advantage of the flow capability of an unvented
cylinder like a megaflow.

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance.

Yup that would be the first step.

If you actual static pressure is below 1 bar, then that is a problem
which you can contact your water provider to fix, since there is a
statuary minimum they need to provide.

If the static pressure is ok, but the flow rate is limited (long narrow
supply pipe to the property for example). then the traditional solution
is to either relay the pipe with something bigger, or if that is not
possible, to fit an accumulator. This creates a buffer that you can draw
water from faster than the supply can replenish it (for a time anyway!)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Dec 4, 11:49*am, Simon Wilson
wrote:
Does anyone know if thesehttp://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-home-boost-mains-pressure-booster...
are any good please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water
system such as Megaflo?

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance.

TIA

--
/Simon

Apart from all the above about negative pressure (which is correct).
There are a few things to do first.
Check with a neighbour(s) and see if they have the same problem.
Check that all valves and stopcocks are opening fully (by
disconnecting the outlet pipe and seeing how much water is delivered)
Valve innards can collapse, just working the handle is not enough.

If the mains water pressure/volume is low, you might be able to get
the water company to fix it at no charge.

They fitted a new supply pipe to my neighbour's house for free a
couple of years back.

On Dec 4, 1:08 pm, fred wrote:
In article

, Tim+ writes

Simon Wilson wrote:
Does anyone know if these
http://www.showerdoc.com/salamander-...ssure-booster-
pump are any good
please, if used in conjunction with a pressurised hot water system such as
Megaflo?

I'm going to test our incoming pressure/flow rate before going much
further, but, I suspect it's too low right now without some assistance..

TIA

You can't use a pump on a mains pressure tank, only on the output from a
gravity fed tank, otherwise your pump could be "sucking" on the mains,
something that's strictly forbidden.

If your mains pressure really is that poor a pressurised HW tank isn't
appropriate.

Yep, spot on.

The only solution I can think of in the case of really poor mains supply
is to have a large stored cold water supply[1] (cold water tank) and to
pump both hot and cold to the outlets. Hot feed to be pumped on the
outlet side of the hot water cylinder.

you could just have 1 pump on the outlet of a large cold "buffer" tank
(ground level if space exists?)
then it can supply pumped "cold" to the cold side and, via the
Megaflow, pumped hot to the hot?
pressures should be similar too if megaflow;s put in right...

I have simlar (from a private supply) with a draper £80 booster pump
strill going strong 5+ yrs on
buffer tank is a 1500litre ex food container, no megaflow tho, hot
from plate heat X in heat bank but should be similar.


[1] Sufficient to supply the whole family/occupants peak demand with
only limited reliance on topup from the mains.

Jim K

In article
, Jim
K writes
On Dec 4, 1:08 pm, fred wrote:

The only solution I can think of in the case of really poor mains supply
is to have a large stored cold water supply[1] (cold water tank) and to
pump both hot and cold to the outlets. Hot feed to be pumped on the
outlet side of the hot water cylinder.

you could just have 1 pump on the outlet of a large cold "buffer" tank
(ground level if space exists?)
then it can supply pumped "cold" to the cold side and, via the
Megaflow, pumped hot to the hot?
pressures should be similar too if megaflow;s put in right...

I have simlar (from a private supply) with a draper £80 booster pump
strill going strong 5+ yrs on
buffer tank is a 1500litre ex food container, no megaflow tho, hot
from plate heat X in heat bank but should be similar.

That's certainly a good value solution. I was concerned about fault
conditions and over pressuring the H/W cylinder, with a pump on the h/w
outlet you could use a cheapie grade 3 cylinder.

If the buffer tank is a ground level, how do you get initial flow to get
the pump running as from what I gather, you need some kind of seed flow
to trigger a sensor and activate the pump.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Dec 4, 7:43 pm, fred wrote:
In article
, Jim
K writes

On Dec 4, 1:08 pm, fred wrote:

The only solution I can think of in the case of really poor mains supply
is to have a large stored cold water supply[1] (cold water tank) and to
pump both hot and cold to the outlets. Hot feed to be pumped on the
outlet side of the hot water cylinder.

you could just have 1 pump on the outlet of a large cold "buffer" tank
(ground level if space exists?)
then it can supply pumped "cold" to the cold side and, via the
Megaflow, pumped hot to the hot?
pressures should be similar too if megaflow;s put in right...

I have simlar (from a private supply) with a draper 80 booster pump
strill going strong 5+ yrs on
buffer tank is a 1500litre ex food container, no megaflow tho, hot
from plate heat X in heat bank but should be similar.

That's certainly a good value solution. I was concerned about fault
conditions and over pressuring the H/W cylinder, with a pump on the h/w
outlet you could use a cheapie grade 3 cylinder.

spose depends what "mains pressure" Megaflows are designed for?

If the buffer tank is a ground level, how do you get initial flow to get
the pump running as from what I gather, you need some kind of seed flow
to trigger a sensor and activate the pump.
..
draper (and all others I looked at) jobby has an air pressurised
diaphragm in a small attached say 24litre metal "cylinder" that
maintains static pipe pressure at 3 or whatever bar, once a "tap"
opens, pressure switch susses drop after a few litres come out, and
pump kicks in and overruns after tap closed til pressure switch on cyl
switches it off

Jim K

On 04/12/2012 19:43, fred wrote:
In article
, Jim
K writes
On Dec 4, 1:08 pm, fred wrote:

The only solution I can think of in the case of really poor mains supply
is to have a large stored cold water supply[1] (cold water tank) and to
pump both hot and cold to the outlets. Hot feed to be pumped on the
outlet side of the hot water cylinder.

you could just have 1 pump on the outlet of a large cold "buffer" tank
(ground level if space exists?)
then it can supply pumped "cold" to the cold side and, via the
Megaflow, pumped hot to the hot?
pressures should be similar too if megaflow;s put in right...

I have simlar (from a private supply) with a draper £80 booster pump
strill going strong 5+ yrs on
buffer tank is a 1500litre ex food container, no megaflow tho, hot
from plate heat X in heat bank but should be similar.

That's certainly a good value solution. I was concerned about fault
conditions and over pressuring the H/W cylinder, with a pump on the h/w
outlet you could use a cheapie grade 3 cylinder.

Unvented cylinders will have PRV on the inlet anyway, and most pumps
won't get up to the limit of the cylinder (not sure what the megaflow
one is set at, but the one on my unistor is 3.5 bar)

If the buffer tank is a ground level, how do you get initial flow to get
the pump running as from what I gather, you need some kind of seed flow
to trigger a sensor and activate the pump.

They do negative head pumps if required...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article
, Jim
K writes
On Dec 4, 7:43 pm, fred wrote:

That's certainly a good value solution. I was concerned about fault
conditions and over pressuring the H/W cylinder, with a pump on the h/w
outlet you could use a cheapie grade 3 cylinder.

spose depends what "mains pressure" Megaflows are designed for?

I'm trying to save the guy some money ;-).

IMO a megaflow is wasted for a stored water installation:

150l megaflow & ancillaries 800quid (more?)
cold side push pump 100quid (from your figure)
Tot 900

150l grade 3 cylinder (lowest pressure rating) 150quid
hot side suck pump 100quid (est)
Tot 250

Ok, a second pump will be required to pressurise the cold feed if it
moves to a totally stored water solution so 350quid tot but if hot and
cold isn't being drawn from the mains at the same time then the cold
pump may not be required.

1/3 of the megaflow soln which can't be bad.

If the buffer tank is a ground level, how do you get initial flow to get
the pump running as from what I gather, you need some kind of seed flow
to trigger a sensor and activate the pump.
.
draper (and all others I looked at) jobby has an air pressurised
diaphragm in a small attached say 24litre metal "cylinder" that
maintains static pipe pressure at 3 or whatever bar, once a "tap"
opens, pressure switch susses drop after a few litres come out, and
pump kicks in and overruns after tap closed til pressure switch on cyl
switches it off

V useful to know, thank you.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .