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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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OT New tax coming.
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html |
#2
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OT New tax coming.
harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. Bill |
#3
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OT New tax coming.
On 09/11/2012 19:36, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote: Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell |
#4
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OT New tax coming.
Nightjar wrote:
They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000. Governments use taxes for social engineering purposes; for modifying our behaviour. If all the tax was on fuel people would drive less, and more economically, which is just what they want for various reasons. Bill |
#5
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OT New tax coming.
Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000. Well they do not have to if they drive a lower emmison car than the rep. -- Adam |
#6
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OT New tax coming.
On 09/11/2012 20:13, ARW wrote:
Bill Wright wrote: Nightjar wrote: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000. Well they do not have to if they drive a lower emmison car than the rep. They'll have a job finding a car that pays a road tax that is lower per mile than the rep - unless it's a city biscuit box. Tax on fuel would have the great advantage that they could dismantle all the red tape involved in handling tax discs. Andy |
#7
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OT New tax coming.
ARW wrote:
I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000. Well they do not have to if they drive a lower emmison car than the rep. They might have kept an old car a long time, because of only doing low mileage. Bill |
#8
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OT New tax coming.
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote: Nightjar wrote: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000. Governments use taxes for social engineering purposes; for modifying our behaviour. If all the tax was on fuel people would drive less, and more economically, which is just what they want for various reasons. but that's achange of policy. Outside Slough there is a set of traffic lights- the first set of phased ones so you could drive without stopping. some years ago the phasing was altered to make the cars stop and start - this was done to increase Treasury revenue. Only lasxt year was the proper phasing restored. -- From KT24 Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18 |
#9
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OT New tax coming.
On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 20:20:38 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote: Outside Slough there is a set of traffic lights- the first set of phased ones so you could drive without stopping. some years ago the phasing was altered to make the cars stop and start - this was done to increase Treasury revenue. Bull****. More like simple cock-up. |
#10
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OT New tax coming.
On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 20:20:38 +0000, charles wrote:
Outside Slough there is a set of traffic lights- the first set of phased ones so you could drive without stopping. some years ago the phasing was altered to make the cars stop and start - this was done to increase Treasury revenue. It was done so that town councillors had a better opportunity to shoot anyone who tried to escape. Jules (who had the misfortune to live in Slough for three years) |
#11
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OT New tax coming.
On Nov 9, 8:04*pm, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000. Why shouldn't they? The mileage difference is more than accounted for by fuel duty. I know w few pensioners who can afford to pay far more tax than any sales rep. MBQ |
#12
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OT New tax coming.
Man at B&Q wrote:
Why shouldn't they? The mileage difference is more than accounted for by fuel duty. I know w few pensioners who can afford to pay far more tax than any sales rep. I'm thinking of my friends, retired farm workers, who are living on a pathetic pension and yet have to drive 16 miles to the nearest shop. Bill |
#13
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OT New tax coming.
On 09/11/2012 20:04, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. Generally it does. A tax that is fair to everybody is likely to produce less revenue than one that is unfair to some. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000. Someone who does 3,000 miles a year would probably be better off selling the car and using taxis. Governments use taxes for social engineering purposes; for modifying our behaviour. If all the tax was on fuel people would drive less, and more economically, which is just what they want for various reasons. It would also significantly increase the cost of many daily necessities, which would increase the RPI, which they don't want. Colin Bignell |
#14
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OT New tax coming.
On 10/11/2012 11:17, Nightjar wrote:
Generally it does. A tax that is fair to everybody is likely to produce less revenue than one that is unfair to some. Though we do seem to have quite a number of taxes which catch most ordinary mortals but are easily escaped by some - often those with the most reason to escape them. Which I think should be classified as being unfair to almost all. -- Rod |
#15
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OT New tax coming.
In message , Huge
writes On 2012-11-10, Nightjar wrote: On 09/11/2012 20:04, Bill Wright wrote: Nightjar wrote: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. Generally it does. A tax that is fair to everybody is likely to produce less revenue than one that is unfair to some. I don't believe it is possible to have a tax that is "fair", anyway. Tax the use seems close. Fuel tax ticks most boxes except reducing the competitiveness of our industry. -- Tim Lamb |
#16
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OT New tax coming.
On 11/11/2012 09:26, Huge wrote:
On 2012-11-10, Nightjar wrote: On 09/11/2012 20:04, Bill Wright wrote: Nightjar wrote: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. Colin Bignell The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. Generally it does. A tax that is fair to everybody is likely to produce less revenue than one that is unfair to some. I don't believe it is possible to have a tax that is "fair", anyway. As people often seem to define fair as meaning it suits their circumstances, it can seem fair to some people. However, as you say being fair to everybody is probably impossible. Colin Bignell |
#17
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OT New tax coming.
On Friday, November 9, 2012 8:04:15 PM UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote: ? wrote: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist to raise revenue, not to be fair. The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000. Also, given that there is a tax on fuel, it costs nothing to increase it. Whereas adding a whole new tax is expensive. They should abolish VED too, and add the extra charge to fuel duty. (There used to be an argument that VED ensured that there was an MOT and an insurance certificate once a year. Now they have got both of those computerised, VED is no longer necessary.) |
#18
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OT New tax coming.
On Nov 9, 7:36*pm, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote: Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-drive-motorwa... They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. Bill I have often thought that. Electricity would still be relatively tax free though. |
#19
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OT New tax coming.
harry wrote:
On Nov 9, 7:36 pm, Bill Wright wrote: harry wrote: Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-drive-motorwa... They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. Bill I have often thought that. Electricity would still be relatively tax free though. Only until it becomes popular and starts making a noticeable dent in the tax take from fossil fuels, then they will find a way to tax its use for transport. The government will be extremely reluctant to give up the revenue from petrol and diesel. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#20
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OT New tax coming.
In article ,
John Williamson wrote: I have often thought that. Electricity would still be relatively tax free though. Only until it becomes popular and starts making a noticeable dent in the tax take from fossil fuels, then they will find a way to tax its use for transport. The government will be extremely reluctant to give up the revenue from petrol and diesel. Unlike diesel etc which you can mark in some way to differentiate between that used for road vehicles and other uses, electricity can't. The only way therefore is to tax actual road usage - perfectly practical these days. -- *If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#21
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OT New tax coming.
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:03:34 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
The government will be extremely reluctant to give up the revenue from petrol and diesel. Too right they will it's a huge amount of money. Unlike diesel etc which you can mark in some way to differentiate between that used for road vehicles and other uses, electricity can't. The only way therefore is to tax actual road usage ... No just make those with electric vehicles be on a lecky tarrif that charges all electricty consumed at say £1/unit. -- Cheers Dave. |
#22
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OT New tax coming.
On Nov 10, 9:08*am, John Williamson
wrote: harry wrote: On Nov 9, 7:36 pm, Bill Wright wrote: harry wrote: Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-drive-motorwa.... They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. Bill I have often thought that. Electricity would still be relatively tax free though. Only until it becomes popular and starts making a noticeable dent in the tax take from fossil fuels, then they will find a way to tax its use for transport. The government will be extremely reluctant to give up the revenue from petrol and diesel. That's exactly what the proposed new tax will do. |
#23
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OT New tax coming.
In message , at 19:36:14 on Fri, 9 Nov
2012, Bill Wright remarked: They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. How do you propose to tax the electricity used to charge electric cars? (More than it's taxed already, that is). I suppose you could have a meter fitted to the car, and pay an electricity tax surcharge annually. -- Roland Perry |
#24
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OT New tax coming.
Bill Wright :
They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. Agreed. But, stupidly IMO, they moved in the opposite direction by relating VED to emissions per km. -- Mike Barnes |
#25
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OT New tax coming.
On 09/11/2012 19:36, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote: Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. Bill But as I drive a large car, a toll tax system would be fairer for me :-) |
#26
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OT New tax coming.
"Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 09/11/2012 19:36, Bill Wright wrote: harry wrote: Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. Bill But as I drive a large car, a toll tax system would be fairer for me :-) which is one of the reasons why it is unfair tim |
#27
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OT New tax coming.
On 10/11/2012 19:29, tim..... wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 09/11/2012 19:36, Bill Wright wrote: harry wrote: Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer. Bill But as I drive a large car, a toll tax system would be fairer for me :-) which is one of the reasons why it is unfair When travelling at speed, the recommended distance between cars being far longer than a car makes the overall area of road used by a small car and a large one near enough the same. So having different rates of tax through differing fuel consumption is even more unfair? |
#28
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OT New tax coming.
On 09/11/2012 18:21, harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html Glad you are on the ball. That was 28 October. I think you will find some follow-up stories around. If you looked. -- Rod |
#29
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OT New tax coming.
On Nov 9, 6:21*pm, harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-drive-motorwa... Do you believe everything in the Daily Mail? MBQ |
#30
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OT New tax coming.
On Nov 9, 8:49*pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Nov 9, 6:21*pm, harry wrote: Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think. Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both petrol tax and new road tax. I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.http://www.dailymail.co..uk/news/art...-drive-motorwa... Do you believe everything in the Daily Mail? MBQ Yes? |
#31
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OT New tax coming.
In message
, harry writes Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. It says they are "considering a proposal" Do you REALLY think that it's possible to go from ideas to a managed toad taxing system in less than 24 months stick to the cartoons - more on your level -- geoff |
#32
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OT New tax coming.
In message , geoff
writes In message , harry writes Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. It says they are "considering a proposal" Do you REALLY think that it's possible to go from ideas to a managed toad taxing system in less than 24 months Its a completely crazy idea since toads rarely have any money anyway -- geoff |
#33
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OT New tax coming.
On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 21:09:05 +0000, geoff wrote:
In message , geoff writes In message , harry writes Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. It says they are "considering a proposal" Do you REALLY think that it's possible to go from ideas to a managed toad taxing system in less than 24 months Its a completely crazy idea since toads rarely have any money anyway And they're bloody bad drivers (based on a sample of one). -- Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#34
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OT New tax coming.
On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 21:55:21 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 21:09:05 +0000, geoff wrote: In message , geoff writes In message , harry writes Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. It says they are "considering a proposal" Do you REALLY think that it's possible to go from ideas to a managed toad taxing system in less than 24 months Its a completely crazy idea since toads rarely have any money anyway And they're bloody bad drivers (based on a sample of one). Yes, they make a right ol' mess of the ball. |
#35
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OT New tax coming.
On 09/11/2012 18:21, harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014. No we are not! Where in the article, which must be true as it is in the Daily Mail, does it mention a date when this will commence? It is just one of many proposals which are under consideration! Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads. The scheme would have to apply to all roads in one way or another as, otherwise, there would be no way to differentiate. -- Frank |
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