Given their fairly frequent mentions here, this news item might be of
interest:


BBC News Northern Ireland
31 October 2012 Last updated at 06:35

Carbon monoxide alarms in new NI homes now compulsory

Carbon monoxide alarms have become a legal requirement in all new homes
in Northern Ireland.

The new law comes as research suggests half of the UK population
mistakenly believe their household smoke alarms will alert them to the gas.

The law follows the deaths of two teenagers from carbon monoxide
poisoning in August 2010.

Neil McFerran and Aaron Davidson died after a gas leak in a holiday
apartment in Castlerock, County Londonderry.

The two young men, who were 18 years old, had been staying at the
apartment near Coleraine with a third friend, Matthew Gaw, who survived.
The three friends were found by relatives.

Their families have welcomed the news but said it only reaches about 5%
of properties. They have called for more to be done.

"I think it's a great forward step, but this is only going to be new
buildings, they still could go further," Aaron Davidson's mother
Catriona said.

"We still need to push awareness of carbon monoxide, that it is a killer."

The new law also requires that an alarm be fitted whenever a boiler or
solid fuel stove is upgraded or replaced.

A survey carried out by the Carbon Monoxide - Be Alarmed! campaign
states that only 39% of people have a carbon monoxide alarm.

It also suggests that half of the UK population mistakenly believed
their smoke alarm would alert them to carbon monoxide gas.

The research was carried out in September among 3,458 UK adults. It said
81% of those surveyed know that carbon monoxide can kill.

Carbon Monoxide - Be Alarmed! is the national campaign to reduce the
number of deaths and injuries caused by carbon monoxide.

The campaign is run by Energy UK on behalf of Britain's six major gas
and electricity companies, in partnership with the Dominic Rodgers Trust.

From 31 October, Northern Ireland Building Regulations will require a
carbon monoxide detector or alarm "in the room where the appliance is
located. However, if the combustion appliance is installed in a room or
space not normally used e.g. a boiler room/cupboard, the detector/alarm
should be located just outside the room or space".

The research findings also included:

57% of respondents said they did not have an audible carbon
monoxide alarm in their home - the equivalent of more than 35 million
people in Britain. A further 4% said they did not know if they had one.
93% of those surveyed agreed that a similar law to that being
introduced in Northern Ireland should be considered for the rest of the UK.
Many people did not know carbon monoxide can also cause long-term
health problems, including heart problems (93% unaware), long-term brain
damage (62% unaware) and respiratory problems (34% unaware).

Poisoning deaths

Carbon monoxide is produced when fuels such as gas, oil, charcoal, coal
and wood do not burn completely.

The most common cause of this is when an appliance, such as a boiler or
cooker, is installed incorrectly or poorly maintained. Carbon monoxide
can also build up when flues, chimneys or vents are blocked.

The Department of Health estimates that 50 people are killed by carbon
monoxide poisoning, and at least 4,000 are treated in hospital, in the
UK each year.

However, the Carbon Monoxide - Be Alarmed! group says that figure is
likely to be much higher, as carbon monoxide poisoning is very difficult
to diagnose because symptoms are often similar to common illnesses like
flu and food poisoning.

Meanwhile, safety checks carried out by the fire service in more than
22,000 homes across Merseyside in England found that fewer than one in
10 had a carbon monoxide alarm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20149879

Yes - we do have a CO alarm.

--
Rod

On Oct 31, 8:02*am, polygonum wrote:
Given their fairly frequent mentions here, this news item might be of
interest:

BBC News Northern Ireland
31 October 2012 Last updated at 06:35

Carbon monoxide alarms in new NI homes now compulsory

Carbon monoxide alarms have become a legal requirement in all new homes
in Northern Ireland.

The new law comes as research suggests half of the UK population
mistakenly believe their household smoke alarms will alert them to the gas.



Meanwhile, safety checks carried out by the fire service in more than
22,000 homes across Merseyside in England found that fewer than one in
10 had a carbon monoxide alarm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20149879

Yes - we do have a CO alarm.

--
Rod

You still have to persuade people to renew the batteries and even be
bothered to test them.

polygonum wrote:

BBC News

Carbon monoxide alarms have become a legal requirement in all new
homes in Northern Ireland. The new law comes as research suggests
half of the UK population mistakenly believe their household smoke
alarms will alert them to the gas.

Radio5 mangled the story into

50% of the population believes a smoke alarm
will alert them to a gas leak.

no mention of the gas in question being CO rather than natural gas.

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
Given their fairly frequent mentions here, this news item might be of
interest:


BBC News Northern Ireland
31 October 2012 Last updated at 06:35

Carbon monoxide alarms in new NI homes now compulsory

Carbon monoxide alarms have become a legal requirement in all new homes in
Northern Ireland.

The new law comes as research suggests half of the UK population
mistakenly believe their household smoke alarms will alert them to the
gas.

The law follows the deaths of two teenagers from carbon monoxide poisoning
in August 2010.

Neil McFerran and Aaron Davidson died after a gas leak in a holiday
apartment in Castlerock, County Londonderry.

snip

As others will be pointing out a gas leak does not give you carbon monoxide
poisoning.
Carbon monoxide comes from incomplete combustion where lack of oxygen
prevents the full combustion giving carbon dioxide and water.
Hence the recent deaths due to smouldering BBQs being brought into tents.

A faulty gas appliance could cause CO poisoning, but a gas leak would not.

I also assume that a CO monitor would not detect a gas leak (although it
would be good if it did).

The main problem with CO is that it is odourless so sneaks up on you and
disables you before you realise what is happening.

Natural gas is (and coal gas was) also an odourless killer which is why they
add a chemical to the gas so that you can 'smell gas' and realise that there
is a leak.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:50:33 +0000, David WE Roberts wrote:

Natural gas is (and coal gas was) also an odourless killer which is why
they add a chemical to the gas so that you can 'smell gas' and realise
that there is a leak.

Methane isn't poisonous though, merely an asphyxiant (sp ?). CO is *very*
toxic. The chemical added is a mercaptan IIRC - added where they bring
the gas onshore.

In article ,
"David WE Roberts" writes:
As others will be pointing out a gas leak does not give you carbon monoxide
poisoning.
Carbon monoxide comes from incomplete combustion where lack of oxygen
prevents the full combustion giving carbon dioxide and water.
Hence the recent deaths due to smouldering BBQs being brought into tents.

A faulty gas appliance could cause CO poisoning, but a gas leak would not.

I also assume that a CO monitor would not detect a gas leak (although it
would be good if it did).

The main problem with CO is that it is odourless so sneaks up on you and
disables you before you realise what is happening.

Natural gas is

Natural gas is not particularly toxic.
The main risk is that of explosion, or in high concentrations,
in diluting the remaining oxygen in the air by displacement.

(and coal gas was)

Coal gas was a mixture of lots of things and varied according to
the impurities in the coal, but the main toxic component was
carbon monoxide, so the risk was both from unburned gas, and
incompletely burned gas.

also an odourless killer which is why they
add a chemical to the gas so that you can 'smell gas' and realise that there
is a leak.

Natural gas has a scent added, mostly methyl mercaptan - one
of the strongest smelling gasses known.

Town gas smelt different. I don't know if there was a scent added,
or if it was just the result of the impurities in the coal. I was
reminded of it recently, when removing a length of old iron gas
main pipe, long since disconnected and blocked off, which still
smelt of town gas. I had not smelt this for some 40 years, but
instantly recognised it. Funny how well you remember old smells.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article , David WE Roberts
writes

A faulty gas appliance could cause CO poisoning, but a gas leak would not.

I'm struggling to see how a fault on a room sealed appliance (isn't that
every boiler now?) could result in a CO leak to the room side.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

In article ,
fred wrote:
In article , David WE Roberts
writes

A faulty gas appliance could cause CO poisoning, but a gas leak would
not.

I'm struggling to see how a fault on a room sealed appliance (isn't that
every boiler now?) could result in a CO leak to the room side.

a leak in the seal? Possibly, case not put back properly after a service?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article ,
charles writes:
In article ,
fred wrote:
In article , David WE Roberts
writes

A faulty gas appliance could cause CO poisoning, but a gas leak would
not.

I'm struggling to see how a fault on a room sealed appliance (isn't that
every boiler now?) could result in a CO leak to the room side.

a leak in the seal? Possibly, case not put back properly after a service?

Flue too close to building opening, and specific wind conditions.

In one of the recent UK cases, the CO leaked into the next door home,
and killed someone sleeping there. I have a vague recollection they
didn't have gas heating themselves.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 31/10/2012 18:13, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
charles writes:
In article ,
fred wrote:
In article , David WE Roberts
writes

A faulty gas appliance could cause CO poisoning, but a gas leak would
not.

I'm struggling to see how a fault on a room sealed appliance (isn't that
every boiler now?) could result in a CO leak to the room side.

a leak in the seal? Possibly, case not put back properly after a service?

Flue too close to building opening, and specific wind conditions.

In one of the recent UK cases, the CO leaked into the next door home,
and killed someone sleeping there. I have a vague recollection they
didn't have gas heating themselves.

There was another case recently (not reported on that well as usual)
where the boiler itself was supposedly fitted correctly, but the
concentric flue termination had a push fit join that was made but then
the retaining screw not put in to stop the collar on the pipe eventually
allowing the connection pull apart if subject to vibration.

(although even that presumably required some other fault to result in
there being enough CO generation in the first place to cause a problem
with being exposed to the flue gas)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 31/10/2012 08:14, harry wrote:


You still have to persuade people to renew the batteries and even be
bothered to test them.


And in little as two years after the house is built the installed alarm
will have to be replaced

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Oct 31, 7:36*pm, alan wrote:
On 31/10/2012 08:14, harry wrote:



You still have to persuade people to renew the batteries and even be
bothered to test them.

And in little as two years after the house is built the installed alarm
will have to be replaced

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

Most of them have a seven year life. Allegedly.

In article , charles
writes
In article ,
fred wrote:
In article , David WE Roberts
writes

A faulty gas appliance could cause CO poisoning, but a gas leak would
not.

I'm struggling to see how a fault on a room sealed appliance (isn't that
every boiler now?) could result in a CO leak to the room side.

a leak in the seal? Possibly, case not put back properly after a service?

All fan assisted now I think so poor sealing results in small amounts of
air being drawn from the room rather than exhaust leaking into it. Fan
failure or gross leak would result in the differential air switch
shutting down the boiler. Concentric flue with inlet air on the outside
and exhaust on the inside again results in exhaust leaks being sucked
back into the inlet.

That said, cases highlighted by John and Andrew do exist (gross
negligence in installation in the former resulting in a manslaughter
conviction and prison) but I regard them as so rare as to make the
compulsory fit of CO monitors unnecessary.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 01/11/2012 07:36, harry wrote:
On Oct 31, 7:36 pm, alan wrote:
On 31/10/2012 08:14, harry wrote:



You still have to persuade people to renew the batteries and even be
bothered to test them.

And in little as two years after the house is built the installed alarm
will have to be replaced

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

Most of them have a seven year life. Allegedly.


For some it's the life of battery that is 7 years without changing. The
life of the sensor is subject to the operating environment - installed
in a house with smokers, use of aerosol air fresheners etc.

And then there is the usual get out clause: "may not protect people with
special risk - age, pregnancy or a medical condition."


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk